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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Reusing yeast (John Maylone)
  Re: Malting Home grown Wheat (Jeff Renner)
  Update on Stuff (KMDruey)
  BYO vs Zymurgy (Bill Wible)
  Infected beer??? (Michael Fross)
  First Wort Hopping (Jeff Renner)
  Autumn Brew Review 2002 (David H Berg)
  Malting Wheat ("Dave Burley")
  Sparging, Dry Ice, Pretzels ("Dave Burley")
  building an immersion chiller (Ralph Link)
  ? re: Lou Bonham on the AHA ("Mark Tumarkin")
  SoFC DELUXE is working!!! ("Aaron Gallaway")
  AHA pub crawlies (Pat Babcock)
  Hop plant question (David Glowacki)


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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:03:40 -0700
From: John Maylone <mrkoala at mac.com>
Subject: Reusing yeast


Could someone give the name of a good book on saving, preserving and reusing
yeast?  

I am still brewing from extract kits, and most of what I make uses one or
two yeasts..........seems silly to keep buying that when it's there to
reuse.  A Dick and Jane level reference book would seem to be in
order........

Thanks,

John Maylone
Tollhouse, CA



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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:34:51 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Malting Home grown Wheat

Steve Rockey <slrjk at egyptian.net> writes from Jacob, Illinois (which 
may be too small for Rand McNally but I found it on Mapquest):

>I recently received about 40 pounds of fresh wheat seed from a local
>farmer.  The wheat is southern Illinois winter wheat, which I know it is not
>a "highly desired" beer making strain, but I would like to try and malt some
>anyway.  My goal is to use my home grown hops, water from the local spring,
>and my own malted grain.  I found some recipes for 100% wheat beer and am
>anxious to try this out.
>
>	Anyway, where can I get some direction on how to properly 
>malt this wheat?
>
>	Also, how should I store it before it is malted?  How about after it is
>malted.

Back in the 80s I grew some soft white winter wheat for a few years 
with a farmer friend and malted it a few times.  It made wonderful 
tasting, malty beer, but I must have overdone the proteolytic part of 
the malting (or maybe just plain overmalted it), because it had very 
little head.

Your malt might be just fine.  Winter wheat tends to have less 
protein than spring wheat, which is good.

I used a Zapap "bucket in a bucket" mash tun for washing and steeping 
the grain, and tied it in a stout cloth bag and dried it in the 
clothes dryer.  It made a mess in the dryer as the culms (dried 
sprouts and rootlets) made a fine dust that went all over the inside. 
I suppose it might even have been a fire danger, but nothing 
happened.  Then I kilned it in my pizza oven, something every home 
should have.

Way back in the early 80s, Zymurgy had a great article about a 
tinkerer who made a stacking box kind of malt steeper/sprouter/kiln. 
If you like, I could scan this and send it to you, but it's probably 
more than you want for 40 lbs.

You can store your wheat the same as malt - cool and dry.

George DePiro (now brewer at the Albany Pump Station 
http://www.evansale.com/  in Albany, NY, malted some barley and 
posted his experience on HBD a few years ago.  I saved it and append 
it below.  I don't think he ever wrote the article he mentions, but 
maybe he did.  Can't remember.

If the search engine is working again, you can do more searches (the 
one on HBD.org was working last I checked.  I don't like it as well 
as Spencer's, but it is something).  There's a brewer up in Alaska 
who has been considering commercial malting and has begun on a pilot 
scale, I believe.

Good luck, and be sure to report back to HBD how it goes.

Jeff

++++++++++++

Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:24:57 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: More Malting

Hi all,

Hans asks about making crystal malt.  As you can see from Ken S's 
excellent posts (and my earlier one), you can start with pale barley 
malt (or wheat malt, too).  The way I actually did it, though, was 
from raw barley.

Raw barley was very difficult to find in the New York City area (even 
feed-grade barley that wasn't crimped was impossible to find).  If 
you can get raw barley, I encourage you to try malting from scratch. 
If you can't get raw barley, but have a few hours to kill and want to 
taste fresh crystal malt, try it the way Ken and I have already 
written about (starting with pale malt).

My source for the raw barley was Briess, but it was a one-time deal, 
so it isn't a viable supplier for the homebrew world.  I'm writing a 
piece about malting/home malting, and thus was able to obtain the 
barley.  I am grateful to Roger Briess for his generosity and support 
of this project.

While I'm here, I'll babble a bit about making malt from scratch. 
The full story will be published in Brewing Techniques in the 
somewhat near future, so look forward to the details then...

I started with 2-row Harrington.  I used my old "bucket in a bucket" 
lauter tun arrangement as a steep tank (the inner bucket has a 
perforated bottom, which allowed for quick and easy draining of the 
steep water.

I used plain, cold tap water for the steep.  The temperature was 
about 55F (12.8C).  I put the barley in the steep tank, filled it 
with water, and stirred it around by hand while allowing the water to 
overflow the bucket.  This helped carry away debris and turned my arm 
blue (55F water will do that...)  There was an amazing amount of dirt 
on the barley (it looked clean, but looks can be deceiving).  I 
continued this until the water was running fairly clean and my arm 
was numb and purple.

I then allowed the barley to soak ~4 hours (changing the water every 
hour or so), then drained the water out and aerated the barley by 
pouring it back and forth between two buckets.  I then allowed the 
moist barley to sit in the bucket w/o water for ~20 hours (this is 
called an air rest).  During that time I rinsed and aerated the 
barley (as above) every couple of hours (yes, even twice during the 
night).

At the end of this rest the rootlets were starting to emerge (a day 
earlier than I expected).  I then filled the bucket with water again 
and repeated the procedure for the initial wet steep (although I 
think I shortened the time because the barley was already near 40% 
moisture content).  After the 2nd wet steep I was going to do another 
air rest, but the barley was at 45% moisture and was growing pretty 
rapidly.

I spread out the germinating barley in aluminum catering trays in my 
basement (the floor is far from sanitary) and misted and turned the 
barley every few hours.  I did my best to keep the temperature low, 
but the germinating barley generated quite a bit of heat.  At night 
the barley was at ~57F (13.9C), but during the day it got near 68F 
(20C).  The young barley malt smelled strongly of acetaldyhde 
(pumpkin-like).

In ~1.5 days the barley was fully modified and ready to kiln.  It was 
pretty evenly germinated.  I was hoping to undermodify the barley, so 
that I could do a decoction mash and not worry about avoiding the 
protein rest, but this barley had other plans.  I'm lucky it didn't 
over modify.

Note that I adhered to the Reinheitsgebot by not using Gibberellic 
acid.  Germination was so rapid I couldn't imagine wanting to speed 
it further!  According to Kunze and Jim Basler at Briess, aeration is 
key to achieving rapid, uniform growth.  Jim at Briess was a bit 
surprised at the speed of my germination, but said it was 
understandable given how much I aerated the grain (and the small 
batch size, which exposed a greater surface area to the air).

I then spread the grain out in an even thinner layer on the floor of 
a room with a space heater in it.  The room was maintained at ~87F 
(30.5C), and a fan was blowing air over the barley.  In this way I 
dried the barley to the desired moisture content before 
higher-temperature kilning.  The barley destined to be crystal malt 
was not dried in this way, though.  It was put straight into the oven 
from the germination tray at ~40% moisture).

In the near future I'll post my "kilning" schedules for Pilsner and 
Munich malts...
     
      Have fun!
     
      George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:11:10 EDT
From: KMDruey at aol.com
Subject: Update on Stuff

HBDers, thanks to all of you most of my equipment is gone!  I have a few 
items left that I am selling on ebay, with most at NR.  Do an ebay search for 
"homebrewing", or my seller name of "kmdrodco" to find the remaining items 
(RIMS, pH kit, hydrometer kit, portable electric stove, electric HLT).

I also have about 20 books that I am offering, most at $5, go to the url 
below for a listing:

http://members.aol.com/kmdruey/list2.html

Thanks again,

Kyle


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:57:00 -0400
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: BYO vs Zymurgy


I advertise in, read, and subscribe to both.

In my opinion, BYO is the "Nike" of brewing magazines,
because they have a "just do it" attitude, which I like.
Much of their articles are "How To" articles, be it
how to brew something or how to build something to make
brewing easier.  They do an annual label contest,
which is always a hit.

I've found their editors to be very reader friendly,
and very eager to accept articles, tips, hints, and
even criticism of their magazine.  They have contacted
me for input several times.  I like the friendliness
and interaction I get from them, which I do not get
from Zymurgy or the AHA.

BYO has a sister publication by the same people
called WineMaker magazine.  So the wine and mead
articles are in another publication, separate from
the beer stuff.  Since I'm 99% a beer maker, and
wine and mead articles don't really interest me,
I consider this a good thing.

They also have good and useful web sites for both
of their publications, at byo.com for BYO, and
winemakermag.com for winemaker.  These sites are
free to the public, have no password, and you don't
need to be a member or subscriber to access them.
They are loaded with good info, including articles
from back issues, recipes, basic tutorials and charts
and info on such things as commonly used chemicals
and common grape varieties.  I've found the winemakermag
site very valuable for providing info to my winemaking
customers.

I think Zymurgy, on the other hand, tends to be much
more scientific and esoteric, providing articles on such
things as brewing historic styles, (which I like very
much), or brewing beer using yeast that was found in some
bottles of Porter they raised from a sunken ship in the
English Channel that went down in the early 1800's.  I
think an issue was done at some point on "Beers of Ancient
Egypt", or something similar.

While these articles interest me, I guess I don't have
the scientific background or mentality to understand
alot of the "Geek Stuff" that Zymurgy publishes.  I'm
not a member of MENSA, and don't aspire to be.

I'm also put off by the wine and mead stuff.  There
have been at least 3 issues in which Mead, Cider, or
Wine articles have been dominant sine Ray Daniels took
over.  In fact, Ray's first issue with Zymurgy was a
big mead issue.

I've heard the defense that "Zymurgy refers to the
art of fermentation, not just beer".  But to me,
Zymurgy is a beer brewing magazine, and has to be
even more so, now that Brewing Techniques is no longer
around, and that void has to be filled.  I'm not looking
for wine, cider, or mead stuff in Zymurgy, and I think
there has been too much of that in the past year.

I collect old issues of Zymurgy, buying them on ebay or
wherever I can find them.  I have issues going all the way
back to the early 80's, and I can see that Zymurgy has
gotten thinner and thinner over the years, and there
hasn't been one of the 'special issues' that someone else
was touting for awhile.  And if you try to buy back issues
of these from the AHA, like the hop issue, you will find they
don't have any more originals, so they send you Xerox copies
of the issue.  This means no chart or pull out, etc.

As I said, I read and subscribe to both, and I like both.
But lately, I think the folks at BYO have been doing a much
better job.
 
Bill



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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 13:36:48 -0500
From: Michael Fross <michael at fross.org>
Subject: Infected beer???

Hello all.

I just racked my nut brown ale to the secondary, and the next morning
I saw some while speckles on the top.  They look the same the next
day.  I'm wondering if that is just yeast activity or if the beer is
infected.

Here are two links to pictures I took.  They are not great, but you
can see the white little "specks" on the top.

Please let me know what you think.  I'm really excited about this beer
and the taste at racking was very good.  The OG was 1.051, the SG at
rack was 1.021 and I was going to leave this beer in the secondary for
a week or two.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  I'm hoping that this is just
normal activity from the yeast.  I tried to be very careful about
sanitation and I have never had an infected beer in the past.  But I
just can't remember this happening before unless I'm losing my mind.

http://fross.org/beer1.jpg
http://fross.org/beer2.jpg

Thanks in advance,

Michael



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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 14:48:37 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: First Wort Hopping

Brewers

The folks down under at Oz Craftbrewing Digest have been having a 
discussion on FWH, and I figured you all up here on the top of the 
world would be interested.

John Ross <hopco at bigpond.net.au>, who I suspect may be in the 
business from his email user name, wrote an iconoclasm:

>Recent research has shown that early hop additions do not contribute
>anything toward flavour in beer. Simply early hop additions contribute
>bitterness only.
>
>It is my understanding that Saaz hops are the most favoured hops for the
>making of Pils and these hops are a late addition.

I then wrote:

>First wort hopping (FWH) doesn't follow these rules.  Hops steeped
>for ~ an hour in 70C wort as you collect the entire runoff are
>stabilized in a mysterious way and contribute a great deal of flavor,
>maybe some aroma, and far less bitterness than if they were added to
>boiling wort, even though they are boiled the entire boil.  See Dave
>Draper's essay on this at http://brewery.org/library/1stwort.html .
>It's a wonderful procedure that is SOP for me with Pilsners and pale
>ales.

and Barry Cranston [mailto:barry_cranston at yahoo.com] asked:

>  Would you be able to give us the reference and/or explain to us 
>the recent research? Does early hop additions refer to/include FWH?
>It would be much appreciateed.

to which John replied:

>Dear Barry, Colin & fellow craft brewers,
>
>The paper I refer to was in the Journal of the Institute of Brewing Vol
>105 No.3 May 1999.
>
>Page 156  Item 55. Reads as follows:
>Investigations into the development of hop flavour during the brewing
>process.
>
>D. Kaltner, C. Forster, B. Thum, W. Black, Technical University of
>Munich Germany.
>
>"The hoppy flavour in pils beers is influenced by many volatile
>compounds.  Technological experiments were carried out in a pilot
>brewing plant.  For characterisation of hoppy flavour these beers were
>tasted according to a special sensory scheme. Some already identified
>hop flavour compounds in beer could be quantified with SPE in
>combination with GC/FID.  Addition of hops at different times showed,
>that hopping of the first wort has no favourable effect on flavour.
>According to our present results oxidation products are not important
>for hop flavour in beer.  The addition of hops in the whirlpool results
>in the best hop flavour in both quality and quantity, especially when
>lower temperatures are applied in the whirlpool.  Furthermore, 9
>different varieties of aroma hops were used in brewing experiments and
>had been differentiated sensorically and analytically."
>
>These comments are backed up by discussions I have had with brewers from
>many parts of the world over the last 16 years.  The "volatile" oils
>such as myrcene, caryophyllene and humulene are mostly boiled off if
>added to the kettle too early.
>
>For this reason the big brewers around the world mostly use bitter
>varieties for the first addition (to make sure the alpha is isomerized
>as much as possible).  They use the aroma type hops (which typically
>have a low alpha) late in the boil i.e. 5 - 10 minutes before the end of
>boiling.
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Best of luck,
>
>John Ross
>Hopco Pty Ltd


Pretty interesting stuff, huh?

I then posted:

>Thanks for that reference.  It's good to see that professional 
>brewing research is looking at FWH.
>
>The results are interesting, but at odds with my anecdotal 
>experience, as well as that of other amateur brewers.  I find that 
>it seems to add a degree of flavor (and aroma) that I don't get with 
>later additions.  In fact, in my latest pils, it was too much flavor 
>as I used a less fine Saaz hops than usual (Zatec Sladek).  I had a 
>similar experience some years ago when I used the rather coarse 
>flavored Cluster hops for FWH and got a black currant flavor and 
>aroma.  Of course, it is hard to entirely separate flavor and aroma.
>
>In the Brauwelt International paper that Dave Draper and George Fix 
>referred to, aroma was the more noted difference than flavor:
>
>"The tasters gave the following main reasons for their preference 
>for the beers produced by first wort hopping:
>
>* a fine, unobstrusive hop aroma;
>* a more harmonic beer;
>* a more uniform bitterness"
>
>and "the first wort beers were assessed as having a very fine and 
>rounded hop aroma and a rounded hop taste."
>
>It is implied that these were in contrast to the control beers, 
>which had conventional late addition hops.
>
>One of the other reasons I like FWH is for the bitterness quality, 
>which, of course, was not addressed in your quote.  From the 
>Brauwelt paper:
>
>"It is obvious that worts of the reference brews contain 
>considerably more non-isomerised alpha-acids than worts from first 
>wort hopping. This is even more apparent in brewery B which brewed 
>with a significantly higher addition to first wort. An analogously 
>very much higher iso-alpha-acid content in the worts was apparent, 
>this was still relatively clearly identifiable in the beers. The 
>bitterness units according to EBC also reflect this picture in the 
>beer.
>
>"Therefore it is the more surprising that these beers with increased 
>bitterness were assessed as being finer and more pleasant in 
>tastings.
>
>"It is usually a good sign when the bitterness of a beer is 
>sensorially less pronounced than should be on a purely analytical 
>basis."
>
>OzCB readers shouldn't be the only ones to benefit from your 
>citation.  I will pass your reference along to HomeBrew Digest for 
>the edification of those readers, where I suspect it will generate 
>some discussion.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 13:52:49 -0500
From: David H Berg <bergbrew at juno.com>
Subject: Autumn Brew Review 2002

The Minnesota Craft Brewer's Guild in conjunction with the Minneapolis
Downtown Council is pleased to announce the Second Annual Autumn Brew
Review to be held Sept 7, 2002 in downtown Minneapolis.

Ticket holders will be treated to over 100 different beers produced by
some of the Midwest's finest breweries.  In addition, food vendors will
be on site selling their wares and local bands will perform on stage.

Tickets go on sale July 15, 2002 via http://www.ticketworks.com The cost
is $20 in advance, which provides the ticket holder access to the event
and unlimited beer samples.  The first 1500 ticketholders will also
receive a commemorative tasting glass.

A list of participating breweries may be found at
http://www.mncraftbrew.org 

New this year is the Autumn Homebrew Review, a competition organized by
the Minnesota Homebrewer's Association.  The competition is open to all
amatuer brewers.

Cheers!

David Berg
President, Minnesota Craft Brewer's Guild



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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:09:54 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Malting Wheat

Brewsters:

Steve Rocker obtained some wheat from a farmer and wants to malt it.  I have
never malted wheat but have malted other grains so here is my best guess.

First of all make absolutely sure this is not seed grain to which
anti-fungal agents have been added.  If it is feed grade or better food
grade wheat then it is OK to malt it. Ideally for malting you would like
seed grade wheat with no additives- but likely not available, so your
efficiency will be lowered by unmalted grains.  Not a big deal.

 Barley has to be stored at a certain moisture level and temperature for a
few months before it will properly malt. I assume wheat is similar, but it
should work somewhat. I don't know if the wheat has a chill requirement or
not.  It wouldn't hurt to store some in the refrigerator for a week or so
before you plan to malt it. As an alternative to others readers, try your
local organic food store for some wheat grains. This is food grade and is
intended to sprout to make - yukk - wheat grass juice.

Wash it free from dust and other impurities , like floaters, in several
washes of cold water. Wheat is different from barley in that it is naked and
has no husk inside which an acrospire ( beginning plant stem) grows when
malting barley. As a result, in the malting of the wheat, the grains must be
carefully handled when turning it to avoid breaking off this plant and
terminating the enzyme formation.

As in barley, the temperature must be kept low and the grains rinsed at
least daily during the water absorption stage to prevent buildup of bacteria
and mold.  I suggest you do a test batch of a pound or two as a practice. I
would soak the wheat in water in the crisper of your refrigerator since it
is summer. Soak the wheat berries in water for about 8 hours and then let
them transpire for the remainder of the 24 hours in a container in which air
is admitted to the damp but exposed grain. Keep the depth to around 4 inches
or less.  Rinse and resoak until no more water is being absorbed - I'd guess
three days.  Don't drown the seed by leaving it in the water without oxygen
too long.

As a way of determining if the grains have absorbed the maximum amount of
water and for later use in evaluating drying,  make up a small cloth bag (
cheese cloth is the best) fill it with a convenient weight of grain and
weigh it dry at the beginning and during each step of the process. Put this
cloth bag amongst the pile of grain This will tell you the % of the water in
the grain all the way through the process by simply subtracting the dry
weight from the wet weight and dividing by the dry weight.

Now once the grain is fully hydrated ( probably three days) , bring it to
the coolest area you can ( ideally 55F or so but difficult in the summer)
and put it in a small pile exposed to the air but covered to prevent drying
of the grain.  A loose cover of an inverted plastic container over the pile
will do fine. I suggest you put a cloth or piece of plastic wrap uinder the
pile to allow you to easily "turn the piece" by lifting one edge and rolling
the pile every 8 hours or so without breaking off the acrospire. A
thermometer in the pile will show a temperature rise. Don't let this get too
hot - keep it under around 65F if you can by spreadng it about 2-3 inches
deep after the first day or so.

In a few days you will see rootlets and an acrospire begin to form. Keep it
damp by sprinkling  ( no standing water) and turn carefully until the
acrospire is on the average 2/3 the length of the grain. In the old days of
floor malting this was then formed into a pile and the young plant killed by
allowing the temperature and CO2 levels to rise. But with this small amount
this is not necessary and probably would not be effective.

Now the critical part. Dry out carefully at around 90 - 100F by spreading
the pile out on a cookie sheet and putting it in your oven with the door
partially propped open ( with or without the light on)  to give the desired
temperature range. Stir every few hours. Weigh the cloth bag daily. When the
cheesecloth bag comes to constant weight ( 2 days or so)  you will have the
grain properly dried as green malt.  Put the malt in a cloth bag ( e,g, a
pillow case) , tie it shut and put it in your dryer, without any heat, to
tumble off the rootlets. This green malt can be used as is, if you use it
right away. It will make a very light colored beer.

 .Now heat your oven to the lowest temperature - probably 140F and dry your
grain to constant weight. If you can, dry the malt at around 120F with the
door propped open. As an alternative use a food dryer which will get to
120F.  This will stabilize the malt and you can store it in a sealed
container after cooling.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley






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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:11:22 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Sparging, Dry Ice, Pretzels

Brewsters:

Audie wants to understand sparging better and asks what's the difference in
continuous sparging with fresh water pushing out the sparge in the lauter
tun versus mixing the same amount of water and allowing it to stand on the
grains before drainng it off.  There is a difference and it is because the
grains have water/wort contained in them which does not drain out when you
remove the water/wort from between the grains as you rinse or drain the bed.

Think of it this way. If you mix the sparging liquor ( water) with the
grains and then drain it off after a time the liquid contained in the grains
is the same concentration as the liquid you drain off. Whereas, if you are
always running fresh sparging liquor( water) over the grains, the liquid in
the grains at the end is nearly pure water.

This latter method - continuous sparging - is much more efficient.

- ------------------

Kevin Boyer asks about cooling wort with dry ice.

Adding dry ice to a wort to cool it fast has one problem that I know of and
that is the source of the CO2.  In the bad old days when this was a
by-product of coal burning, SO2 could be a component of dry ice, if memory
serves. Today with improved processes I don't know. You wouldn't want too
much SO2 in your wort or any other condensed gases. Ask your supplier and
remember that dry ice likely isn't food grade.
- ---------------------
I have successfully used a saturated ( dump in enough that no more will
dissolve)  baking soda solution to simmer my pretzels I made in the past.  I
assume that during the baking process the high heat decomposes the sodium
bicarbonate in contact with the dough to produce sodium hydroxide or do
whatever the sodium hydroxide is supposed to do to the dough to make it
color.


Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:56:23 -0500
From: Ralph Link <ralphl at shaw.ca>
Subject: building an immersion chiller

There hasn't been a lot of activity on the digest lately so I thought I 
would pass this bit of information along. We have wanted to build an 
immersion chiller and retire our counter flow device. The c.f.c is slow and 
we often question its cleanliness.
I was given a 50 ft. roll of .75 in. i.d. soft copper tube. The problem is 
how do you wind a nice coil of .75 in. i.d. tube into a chiller.
The answer is pinching off one end and filling it with silica sand then 
pinching off the last end. To fill it we had to funnel the sand in from the 
roof of my single storey home. It required a lot of sand and gentle taping 
to ensure that we had the tube completely filled.  I also had to get three 
friends to help. The next problem is what do you use for a form. For this 
we used a 4 ft. piece of telephone pole that had been buried in the ground 
as a post for a future gate. So with four guys we carried the 50 ft. length 
of tube to the post nailed one end to the post with a couple of nails and 
proceeded to walk the total length around the post. Three of the helpers 
support the tube and one person at the post kept pressure on the tube as it 
went around the post. He also had a rubber mallet and gently gave it a few 
love taps to ensure that the coil was tight and straight.
Would I recommend this to build an immersion chiller? Only if you get the 
tube for free, otherwise it is a lot of work.
If anyone wants any additional information on this project just send a 
private email and I will try to be of assistance.
Best Wishes
Ralph Link 



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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:02:32 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: ? re: Lou Bonham on the AHA 

Sean,

In response to Louis & Paul's posts about the 'new' AHA, you wrote about the
shortcomings (lack of participating pubs)of the Pub Discount program in your
area, Chicagoland.

You wrote:
"When I mentioned that there were no, or few, participants in
chicago and that perhaps the AHA should do something to
rectify the situation, Paul Gatza response was that their current
strategy was to let the pubs come to them.

Well, gee-whizz. That strategy, to me, sounds alot like laziness.
Other's, on the AOB, suggested that I be "proactive" and go out
and try and sign-up pubs on my own rather than waiting for
the AHA to do it for me. Again, to me that sounds alot like me
doing their job, and if so, what am I paying dues for? Shall I next
start updating their website, publish zymurgy and organize their
conferences as well?"

There have been several responses pointing out that the pub discount program
is brand new and  the plan is to take some time to work out the kinks before
increasing the number of participating brewpubs. Eventually, it will be much
more widespread and available; and will become a more valuable member benefit.
Even then, there will be some areas that have many participating pubs and
others that have few or none. Still, given the number of requests on HBD for
brewpub recommendations, it's pretty clear that many homebrewers combine
travel with beer hunting and may find this a welcome benefit even if they
don't have a local waterhole on the list.

But what I really want to respond to is the other part of your post. I think
it's clear that the strategy for rolling out the pub discount plan is not
laziness on the part of Paul and the Boulder staff but sound planning and
management of a new program. Should you be proactive in helping sign up pubs?
Well, in a word....hell yes. Why are you paying dues? To be part of an
'Association' of American Homebrewers. It's not you and them.... it's US. You
say, 'their website', their conference', I'd like you to stop for a moment and
perhaps try using the words My and Ours.

The changes in the AHA are truly bottom up, though there are also changes from
the top down...including Charlie P and the staff in Boulder. But it's really
all of us getting involved and helping make the AHA the organization we want.
Organize 'their conference"? It's already happened. For the last four years,
it's been local clubs and homebrewers that have organized, planned and run the
conferences.... and with increasing success. They just keep getting better,
organized and run by us... with help and cooperation from the AHA staff.
Update the website.... we're talking about plans to improve our website, make
it into THE Beer Portal, maybe change the name. We already have the rights to
Homebrew.org. And we'll probably be soliciting help from you and other
homebrewers to help with this. Again, we'll have to ask for your patience as
it won't happen overnight. There's not a lot of staff time and/or money to
devote to projects like this. But it will start happening soon. Publish
Zymurgy?, well, maybe not but edit it.. sure. Ray Daniels is an editor,
writer, beer event organizer, but it's his fundamental passion for and love of
homebrewing that put him in the position of editor. And the response is
unanimous and overwhelming. He's doing a great job making Zymurgy into the
premier homebrewing magazine. And look at who's helping him... many of the
articles are authored by names you should recognize from the HBD.

I'm sure you get my point; it's not them.....them is us, and hopefully you as
well. Get involved in the AHA, be proactive with the brew pub discount program
in helping to line up your local pubs. You'll be helping yourself directly as
well as helping the rest of us. You don't have to worry about the details.
Just talk to your local brewers and pubs, let them know the program exists and
gauge their interest. If there is any, get the contact info and pass it along
to the AHA staff in Boulder. Or get involved in the planning and execution of
the Natl Conference, or just get involved with your local homebrew club. Or
just make some suggestions to the AHA with a new creative idea, it's easy
 ..... email me or any of the other Board of Advisors.... most of them are
participants in the HBD. Hmmm, another example of them is us.

Anyhow, there lots of ways to further our brewing community. Figure out what
you want, what works best for you; and then pitch in and help us create the
organization and programs that you'd like to see.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL
Hogtown Brewers
AHA Liaison and BoA member




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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:16:07 -0700
From: "Aaron Gallaway" <baseball_junkie at hotmail.com>
Subject: SoFC DELUXE is working!!!

To all who helped me,


     Aaron in Japan here. I posted a month or so ago about trouble I was 
having with a Digital Thermo for my Fermentation chamber. Well, I finally 
bailed on it. I just could NOT get it to work. So I just used a PID 
controller and just put the T/C(after sterilization with alcohol) directly 
in the beer. It is actually measuring the beer temp NOT the air temp. It was 
built for my wedding Maerzen(Oct 12th so the style is appropriate) and is 
big enough for 2 fermenters. If you are interested, email me and I will send 
you pics! I will sell it to a friend B4 I leav Japan next year and built a 
new one when I get home!!!

Aaron


Go Mariners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:43:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: AHA pub crawlies

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

I've kept both my AHA BOA rep mouth and my Janitor mouth shut on
this one - partially due to a lot of things going on, partly
because I was interested in getting more public opinion beofre
voicing mine.

Yup, I'm a board member. But I was also one of four who were
seriously considering the formation of a competing organization
to the AHA because we saw no hope (the remaining three can peep
up or remain anonymous as they see fit, but the cat is now well
out of the bag). Frankly, I was aghast when the AHA appointed
yet anothe "faceless, nameless person to head up the AHA"
(paraphrased from a post I made to the HBD and
rec.crafts.brewing upon the appointment of Paul Gatza). My
perspective now? They couldn't have done much better. Paul is a
gem, and has done much to surround himself with a motivated,
dynamic staff. My hat is off to him.

Zymurgy? You can't be serious? Ray Daniels? Ray Daniels is God's
GIFT to Zymurgy. The mag is now so far and beyond what it was
that there is no question in my mind when I recommend it to
other brewers, both experienced and inexperienced.

And the pub program. Though, in MY laziness, I would prefer to
get a card that is recognized, bowed to and gleefully accepted
for discounts at every brew pub I step into, I see the benefit
of having something to flash while I say "Hey - you should
consider this. Look at the pubs that already give discounts to
the AHA membership. They're a NATIONAL group, too..." If that
snags me one sign up from any one of my favorite pubs _I_ am the
winner. _I_ get to enjoy the AHA member discount at their
establishment - the rest of y'all notwithstanding! Glass half
full of foam, or half full of beer. I choose the beer. And maybe
you'll get the benefit of that attitude some day when you stop
into one of the pubs I've harrassed into signing up? (Which,
knowing me, will just as likely get you tossed out on your ear
:^)

So, folks, I am firm in my belief that the AHA has turned their
tailspin into a 360' turnaround. If they can douse MY
afterburners, they've truly changed for the better. And I'm not
saying that just because I'm a BOA member either. I b'lieve that
even I could recognize the changes from an outside perspective,
too...

In stock terms, I see the AHA as a recommended buy and hold. 

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:17:19 -0400
From: David Glowacki <glowacki at en.com>
Subject: Hop plant question

Hello!
I've been gifted with a small (12" tall) Williamette plant in a pot.
I know it is too late to plant it and hope to harvest from it this year,

but will it have enough time to establish its root structure, etc. to
survive a Cleveland winter (first frost in early-October, first snow
in mid-October)? Or should I treat it as a houseplant until
next spring and plant it outside in April-May? Help?

Dave Glowacki
Novelty, Ohio







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