HOMEBREW Digest #3991 Wed 17 July 2002

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  RE: Reusing yeast ("Gary Smith")
  The Sound of Beer (Jim Adwell)
  BrewingTechniques subscription make-good? (Matt Comstock)
  Prague Powder and sausage supplies ("Dave Burley")
  Quit the AHA (mohrstrom)
  Chicago Homebrew Clubs (Aaron Robert Lyon)
  Marc Sedam's Number 4 (The Bitcher) ("Jim")
  Re: Mark Orhstrom comments (Sean McDonald)
  PLEASE, refund Sean's money.... ("Jeff Beinhaur")
  Sean's Rantings ("DRTEELE")
  data points and sound influences ("Dr. Pivo")
  Re:Hop plant question (Dave Wills)
  hopmadness (Dave Wills)
  how high are your nipples? (Alan McKay)
  And whats with that burnt-sugar taste? (Kevin Crouch)
  Competition Announcement: MI State Fair (grayling)
  Hot tap water (was re: cooling wort with dry ice) ("Jeff Pitblado")
  Amount of CO2 produced by fermentation (Demonick)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:15:46 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com> Subject: RE: Reusing yeast > Subject: RE: Reusing yeast > > John Maylone wrote: > > "Could someone give the name of a good book on saving, preserving and > reusing yeast?" Although not exactly the same... I'd suggest "The Mushroom Growers Cultivator" By Paul Stametes of Medford, OR as a good resource. I used to grow Mushrooms (Yes... all kinds) and this book goes into an incredible depth as to the culturing of mushroom spores and Mushroom cloning, all of which require a sterile environment and procedures. In the book, construction of a personal innoculation hood to carry out the procedures in a sterile is explained. In addition, the rationale for te steps taken are explained fully. I realize it's not exactly the same but I knew the proper aseptic technique when I got the book and found it to be flawless. Not sure if it's still in print but I would be amazed if it's not, it's quite an opus (Heh, mine was signed by him & was something like copy #74). Hmmm.. Glow in the Dark Psilocibe Mushroom Beer. Possible, possible... Ahem, Gary Gary Smith http://musician.dyndns.org A mother takes twenty years to make a man of her boy, and another woman makes a fool of him in twenty minutes. - Robert Frost - Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:16:57 -0400 From: Jim Adwell <jim at jimala.com> Subject: The Sound of Beer Phil ponders beer noise and rotational effects: "It's early days but I suspect that nasty Coriolis effect is rearing its ugly head again. Whatever the case, the last thing a brewer wants to hear is "phhhhht" or "whorrrrrrst" coming from his kegs. I wonder what it sounds like on the north and south pole." Well, Phil, wonder no more. I can shed some light on this subject for you; I have researched this subject extensively with all sorts of beer containers, and have come to the following conclusion, to wit: Since the Coriolis force is zero at either pole, the dregs, not knowing which way to spin, leave the keg in a downwards manner, thus making a "glug-glug-glug" sound (or, in the case of the southern pole, "gulg-gulg-gulg", which is much the same sound, by the way, that an Australian homebrewer makes upon discovering that his last keg of Polar Pale Ale is almost empty, if you know what I mean). Since I am the recognized expert in brewing sonics (in fact, the only expert in this field), what I say goes, and there can be no other discussion or any dissenting views on the matter. Case closed, move along, please. Unless I'm wrong, in which case, never mind. Jim's Brewery Pages: http://brewery.jimala.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:17:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: BrewingTechniques subscription make-good? Howdy folks, This popped in my inbox the other day. Anyone else had correspondence? Matt in Cincinnati - --- Consumer's Edge Network <consumersedgenet at earthlink.net> wrote: > Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 20:29:31 -0700 > To: mccomstock at yahoo.com > From: Consumer's Edge Network > <consumersedgenet at earthlink.net> > Subject: BrewingTechniques subscription > make-good > > Dear former BT subscriber: > > This is a "form" email that is the first step > in resolving our > commitment to fulfill the unused portion of > your BrewingTechniques > subscription with back issues. Following > please find a report that > shows the information we have on file for you. > Please reply with a > simple confirmation, or with any changes. We > will endeavor to get > these issues out to you as soon as possible. > > Your mailing address: > - -- removed -- > > > Here's what we show you requested for > BrewingTechniques back issues: > > 4.4 > 4.6 > 6.2 > > Here's what we show you requested for Brewer's > Market Guides: > > > > Thank you for your patience as we go through > the process of resolving > this commitment from BrewingTechniques. We > await your reply. > > Consumer's Edge Network, > for BrewingTechniques > consumersedgenetwork at netzero.net > Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:35:42 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Prague Powder and sausage supplies Brewsters: Louis Bonham lists his favorite "jerky" recipe which includes the necessary Prague Powder #1 and lists potential sources for it which may not be available in your area. Like Louis I have a fascination for sausages and beer and have done my share of sausage making - including bangers, brats, kielbasa, Thuringer and real frankfurters, etc. Practice before deer season is a good idea if it's your first time. I would start with Louis' recipe or at least use commercially ground meat the first time. Deer and other game is naturally low in fat and a good use for deer meat is as sausage ( with added pork fat) and jerky ( no added fat). Hunters will be your friends and you will eat lots of venison sausage. A good source ( but expensive, IMHO) of supplies for all types of sausages and equipment and books is "The Sausage Maker" in Buffalo NY. They supply both Prague Powder #1 ( used for "cooked" but not dry sausages) and Prague Powder #2 ( used to produce dried sausages) but have recently called them by a different name which is explained in the catalog. www.sausagemaker.com for an idea of the company sausmaker at aol.com for a catalog or 1-800-490-8525 Another source - less expensive - for meat grinders and sausage stuffers equipment is Northern Tool. www.northerntool.com look under "outdoors" / "meat and grain grinders". They also have a 170,000 BTU propane cooker on sale for $59.95 but add in shipping charges.. No affiliation with either organization, but I have had good service from both. Remember to be sanitary and that meat is not acidic and can spoil quickly. Also remember that salt is not a "cure" for meat, as most initiates might believe. Use Prague Powder #1 according to directions if you have to hold, process, smoke or "cook" the wet or semi-dry sausage mixture at room and higher temperatures for any length of time. Bulk ground meat and stuffed sausage casings are the nearly perfect low oxygen environment in which Botulinus can propagate, so make sausage carefully but have lots of fun doing it. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:22:49 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: Quit the AHA Sean McDonald should quit the AHA. It is not for him. There is nothing that he can learn, no value that he will receive, he has nothing to offer but his 38 bucks. In private correspondence, I came to realize that nothing would ever please him - he is unrealistic in his expectations. He is certain of his view (after all, after seven months of brewing _he_ is the definition of the "average brewer".) In my business career, I have, from time to time, had to "fire" a customer. Some people are not worth dealing with. (In business, I have the added pleasure of scraping off these whiners onto a competitor - let them waste _their_ time ...) We all know those people - they suck the air from the room as they enter, when trapped in conversation with them, you consider diving through the window to escape. God help you if you are ever in a relationship with one of them (gimme, gimme, gimme...) Sean - quit the AHA. Chalk it up as (yet another) bad life experience. Oh - don't join the local club. They won't please you either. Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:45:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu> Subject: Chicago Homebrew Clubs Hey, all. I'm moving to Chicago shortly (August 1st), and I'm wondering who out there can tell me about the clubs I'll find when I unpack. I've already joined the Chicago Beer Society and look forward to those meetings very much, but I've heard they don't have as much of a homebrew focus. I'm going to be living in the Lincoln Park area and would love to meet with a club I can take public transportation to (though I will have a car). I know a little about BOSS, but don't know where they actually like to meet. Urban Knaves of Grain are the same story, and what's this I hear about HOPS? Some specific information would be appreciated in either public or private e-mail. Thanks. -A ____________________________________________________________________________ Aaron Lyon - homebrewer / research assist / hasher *[4.13, 118] Apparent Rennerian* "Give me a woman who truly loves beer, and I will conquer the world." -Kaiser Wilhelm II (1859-1941) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:47:17 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Jim" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Marc Sedam's Number 4 (The Bitcher) I request..NO, I DEMAND! that the AHA transfer at least one of the brewpubs in Bolder to Millsap so that I can have a choice other than Bubba's "Millsap Small Engine and Chainsaw Repair" for my one night a month out on the town. If Paul wasn't so lazy he would have already done this for me. I am a member in full standing of the AHA and deserve nothing less of the organization. For those who met me at the recent event in Dallas (That I'm know was screwed up by Charlie, Paul, Gary and Erwin somehow. I enjoyed myself too much to notice but I'm sure if I spent enough time I could come up with something that went wrong). Anyway, for those that met me know that after 41 years of off and on brewing I, like Sean, have outgrown Zymurgy. Just last week I was out on the back porch in the hot tub enjoying a beer and reading the recent copy of Zymurgy. Now my nearest neighbor lives more than a mile away and I am able to enjoy the hot tube in my all in all. For the first time in 10 years of enjoying myself this way, guess what happen? Suddenly, around the corner of the house appears my neighbor and his wife. Let me tell you I have outgrown the Zymurgy so much that if I had 2 copies opened at the centerfold it wouldn't have covered me. My poor wife is now scared to go back into the water...Bummer! Sean, are you telling me that I should drop my membership in the AHA if Paul doesn't get a brewpub in every members town, and then make that brewpub honor the discount program? YOU GO BOY!!! I'm with you. But can I keep my card? The card seems to impress all the locals. They think I'm some big shot in the beer business when I flash the thing. I get a lot of free beers that way. Hey, that's better than a discount, I'm talking about FREE beer here. Sean, I'll join you but please, please let me keep the card. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:46:20 -0500 From: Sean McDonald <seanmc at irga.com> Subject: Re: Mark Orhstrom comments Mark, It's not my fault you blindly and stupidly accept what every rhetoric that is poured down your fat gullet. It's also not my fault that you failed to create a convincing argument, utilized failed logic and lack the knowledge to formulate a decent arguement. You, my ignorant friend, are one of only a few that are continuing to champion the cause of the AHA. Everyone else has either given up the cause for whatever reason (which I was about to do), some sided with me or, at the very least, others admitted that I raised valid points. In addition, I didn't resort to personal attacks when dealing with you, in fact I only addressed the issue - the AHA. Perhaps you should hop back onto your short bus and take some more of your "special" classes. You truely showed your intelligence there. Sean McDonald Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:39:45 -0400 From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at msn.com> Subject: PLEASE, refund Sean's money.... OK Sean.... You're diatribe is getting old. Go take a chill pill and wash it down with some of your apparently great homebrew. "I've been brewing for 7-8 months, and I've already outgrown Zymurgy." Damn you must be good..... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:21:12 -0400 From: "DRTEELE" <drteele at bellsouth.net> Subject: Sean's Rantings Sean, I'm sorry, but I can't stand reading your posts. Yours are the most selfish, self-centered and childish postings I have ever seen on the HBD. It's all what have YOU (AHA) done for Me, when, how and why not? You refuse to see the benefits of the AHA as benefits just because you don't make use of them. Well, I hate to break it to you, but just because you choose not to use them doesn't mean they are not benefits for the rest of the AHA membership. You cry because you don't see your membership dues helping you make better beer. Well, if you READ Zymurgy rather that clammoring about your dues being an over-priced subscription, you might learn how to make better beer. AND if you submitted your beers to competitions, you would get standardized reviews (thanks to BJCP) of your beer that you could use to improve your brewing practices. You complain that the pub discount is worthless because you can't use it. From what I've heard, this program is in its infancy. Can't you show even a little patience? And as for the consumer age and getting bang for your buck, remember this. You are not a customer of the AHA, you are a member. AHA is not a retail store, it is an association. Your dues are not an investment, they are DUES (Websters - a fee or charge for membership). They are instituting programs which help and benefit their membership according to what their members tell them. In all your posting, all I have seen are complaints, not constructive criticism. You refuse to step up to help improve the organization, i.e. promoting the pub discount program or even making suggestiongs for new programs which might benefit you. You expect your every homebrew to be handed to you on a silver platter for your $38. You know, you don't sound like a member. You sound more like a disgruntled consumer. If I were the AHA, I would refund your membership and be done with you. In my mind the $38 'benefit' you bring to the association isn't worth the wailing everyone has to listen to coming from you Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:22:42 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: data points and sound influences As always, Phil Yates has opened up another germaine and extremely under analysed aspect of beer making. He suspects the coriolis effect creating the discrepancy..... > to say his kegs are making that terrible "phhhhht" > sound. > > Interestingly though, here in the Southern hemisphere a keg emptying itself > actually makes a "whorrrrrrst" sound > This is not the coriolis effect. This is either the "greed" effect, or the "sloppy drunk/slow reflexes" effect. The first sound the tap line emits upon the keg emptying is a hissing "phhhhht" sound. The experienced have learned to immediately close the tap, or one will suffer the "whorrrrrrst" sound which comes at the end. This is produced as the influx of CO2 exceeds the beer content in the tap line, and the violence of this flow invariably russles up the yeast cake on the bottom a natural cellar lagered keg, making the recieving glass look like a chocolate milkshake. > sound rather than a "phrrrrrt". > This sound is actually the one you emit the next day if you are greedy enough to drink this yeast laden flagon. Dr. Pivo And Ray Daniels says "they" are covering all manner of exciting new topics. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:38:51 -0700 From: Dave Wills <dave at freshops.com> Subject: Re:Hop plant question Regarding the Willamette hop you have in a pot. Plant it outside ASAP. Even though the hop will not do much this year it will still establish some roots. More importantly hops need to go through the winter dormant, keeping it inside would prevent the dormancy. Dave Wills Philomath, Oregon Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:39:00 -0700 From: Dave Wills <dave at freshops.com> Subject: hopmadness In celebration of the hop, you are hereby cordially invited to HOPMADNESS!! AUGUST 31-SEPTEMBER 1, 2002 2pm on, with harvest tours at 3pm, 6pm, & midnight Willamette Mission State Park, Filbert Grove 8 miles north of Salem, Oregon With 2 hop farms within a mile of the celebration and hop harvest in full swing, Freshops has arranged to tour the hop yards, picking, drying and baling facilities at Weather's Hop Farm. The harvest is a very busy time with hops being picked 22 hours a day during the peak of ripeness. If you have never experienced a commercial hop harvest, it is hop lovers heaven. Homebrewers are encouraged to bring their portable brew kettles, malt and yeast and plan to brew harvest ales with fresh picked hops. Bring your hoppiest homebrews to share with fellow hop enthusiast. The Oregon Brew Crew will hopefully be bringing some of the remains of the Great Hop Experiment where individual beers were brewed with single hop varieties using the same wort and yeast. If you can do it with a hop, we plan on doing it. Hop picking contests, hop wreath making, hop photos, hop king and queen pageant, BBQ, potluck, BYOHomebrew, camp, hike, bike, fish, horseshoes, horse rentals, music, nations largest Black Cottonwood tree. $3.00 per car, includes tent camping if you desire. I-5 exit 263, west on Brooklane Rd. past hop yards then right on Wheatland Rd about 2 miles to the park and find the Filbert Grove. For further info about the park visit- www.oregonstateparks.org/park_139.php or call Freshops- (541) 929-2736 - -- Dave Wills Freshops purveyor of fine hops Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:57:09 -0400 From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> Subject: how high are your nipples? Folks, I have a 45 litre / 11 US gallon SS pot that I want to get a coupling (OK, not a nipple but the subject line was better that way ;-)) welded into. But I'm not sure how high off the bottom of the pot to put it. Is there a rule of thumb? THis is for fitting a ball-valve on the outside, and I also want to fit some kind of manifold to the inside. thanks, -Alan - -- http://www.bodensatz.com/ The Beer Site Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:26:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com> Subject: And whats with that burnt-sugar taste? Can anyone out there add any insight to the phenomenon of the "smoothing" out of that burnt sugar taste in beers that use high-melanoidin malts such as munich? I've become acutely aware of this flavor in young beers, lagers especially, that I make with these malts, and I can't think of any other way to describe it, except that is similar to what coffee smells like when its roasting. When I brew a lager, for example, it is usually an amber or bock style with at least 25% Munich malt, usually DeWolf Cosyns Belgian Munich Malt (6L). I rarely use crystal malt anymore, and I used to attribute this flavor to crystal until I purged it from my recipes in certain beer styles. Now, with only varying combinations of pilsener malts and dark malts this burnt flavor persists. I percieve an intensity of this flavor and aroma during the early stages of maturation in the lagering vessel. Depending on the amount of Munich malt used, this flavor may take months to evolve completely into that nectar-like malt flavor and aroma. This, at least, is what I **percieve** to be happening. For example, I brewed a Helles Bock in March using 30% Munich. I started the lagering process in May with the burnt taste at an overwhelming level. Now, over two months later, this flavor is just barely discernable amid a heartwarming malt buffet. What is going on here chemically? I've never found a good explanation of this transformation, though I must admit I've not read Ray Daniels' Brewing Lager Beer. Historically speaking, are these flavor compounds, and the time required to mature them part of the impetus for substituing a smaller portion of crystal malt for the larger percentage of dark malts more commonly used in pre-pale malt brewing days? Obviously some brewers in certain countries have not compromised this formula. For clarity sake, I do not decoct, and I rarely step mash because my water is soft and the Belgian grains are highly modified (aaaah brewtopia). I mash in a large Coleman Marine cooler which means my grist does not ever touch a surface heated by a direct flame. Thanks in advance for any wisdom, wild-guesses, confucian sayings, mantras, or organic chemistry mechanisms. Getting ready for Oktoberfest in Vancouver, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:50:08 -0400 From: grayling at provide.net Subject: Competition Announcement: MI State Fair Hello All - The time is upon us again for the MI State Fair Homebrew Competition. All of the details can be found at http://hbd.org/michigan. The important dates are as follows: Registration Begins: July 15, 2002 Registration Ends: July 29, 2002 First round judging the weekend of August 3rd at a Detroit/Ann Arbor location to be announced. Best of Show judging will be at the State Fairgrounds on Saturday August 24th at 4:30. Judges and stewards are needed for all events. Please contact me for more information. Cheers! Jim Suchy Comp. Director Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:43:07 -0700 From: "Jeff Pitblado" <jplists at cox.net> Subject: Hot tap water (was re: cooling wort with dry ice) > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:15:56 -0700 From: mike.sharp at lante.com > Subject: re: cooling wort with dry ice. > > A better method of chilling, if your tap water is too warm, would be > to use your CF chiller, or an immersion chiller to get the temperature > down to, say, 100F, then cut in a second immersion chiller sitting in > your ice-water filled sink to pre-chill the cooling water, and bring > the wort temp down the rest of the way. If you don't have a second > immersion chiller (I have both a CF and and immersion, which is handy > at times), but you do have a pump, you can just fill a tub with ice > water, and when the tap water becomes ineffective, pump water from the > tub through the chiller. Living in Phoenix, hot tap water is a constant problem (especially in the summer). What I & many of the people in the local club do is run the wort through an immersion chiller set in a bucket of ice water. It's easy to add more ice as the water warms up. You do have to be careful with cleaning & sanitizing the chiller. Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:44:59 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Amount of CO2 produced by fermentation I've been asked how much CO2 is generated in a "typical" fermentation? I tried to figure it out, and would like a critique of my calculations. My constants come from the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. Let's assume a 20 liter batch of 12P wort (12% w/w). Let's assume it is all glucose and the yeast is 100% attenuative (we can adjust for these factors later). We can calculate the total amount of CO2 ideally produced in a fermentation from the quantity of sugar consumed by the yeast. The metabolic chemistry for glucose is, one glucose molecule produces 2 carbon dioxide molecules and 2 ethanol molecules : C6H12O6 => 2(CO2) + 2(CH3CH2OH) molecular weight : glucose 180.6, CO2 44.01, ethanol 46.07 A 20 liter 12% (12P) solution contains 2400 grams of glucose which is 13.29 moles of glucose. If all of it is metabolized this would generate 26.58 moles of CO2. That's 1170 grams. Under standard temperature and pressure 1 cubic meter of air contains about 2.547 x 10**25 molecules. 20 liters is 1/50 (0.02) of a cubic meter or 5.094 x 10**23. Avogadro's number is 6.022 x 10**23, so 20 liters of volume at STP would contain 5/6 (5.094/6.022) of a mole of CO2 or 36.68 grams. (Seems awfully high) If the number is right, the solution in question would ideally produce about 32 volumes of CO2. Another way to calculate this is to use the molecular volume of an ideal gas constant 22.4 x 10**-3 cubic meters per mole. This constant is listed at a temperature of 0 C, corrected to room temperature (20C) yields 24.04 x 10**-3 cubic meters per mole. Interesting number. In decimal notation it is 0.02404 cubic meters per mole. Remember that 0.02 cubic meters is 20 liters. 0.02/0.02404 = 0.83 = 5/6 of a mole. Both methods agree. However, not all of the sugar is metabolized to CO2 and ethanol. Some of it is used in biosynthesis, some of it is limit dextrins that can not be metabolized by the yeast. If we assume that 1/2 of the sugar is available for metabolism then we generate about 16 volumes of CO2. Still seems awfully high to me. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax Seattle, WA demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com Return to table of contents
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