HOMEBREW Digest #3996 Tue 23 July 2002

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  water filters ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Re: Oh Phil ... see what you started ... (fwd) (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Re: High FG in Strong Lager (Marc Sedam)
  re: cask conditioning in a 3 gallon keg ("Mark Tumarkin")
  beer and airplanes (Marc Sedam)
  RE:  Toast My malt ("David Houseman")
  Re: Glass vs. Plastic (again) ("Chad Gould")
  The Coriolis Party ("Phil Yates")
  Sean vs. AHA - Bury the Hatchet ("DRTEELE")
  HERMS / pump (Road Frog)
  Zymurgy planning . . . (Ray Daniels)
  Goose Island IPA clone (Beer Drinker)
  Acetobacter - Thanks for the help - one more question ("Hache, Marc")
  Plastic, glass, polycarbonate ("Brian Schar")
  Fw: plastic primarys, septic tank, propane. (Tod H Lewark)
  high temperature mash (HOMEBRE973)
  re: Toast My malt? (Rama Roberts)
  RE: Brewing without lifting ("Gary Smith")
  What's in your Fridge? ("Jim")
  mashing and attenuation (Kevin Crouch)
  Re: The modelling of speciality malts ("A. J. delange")
  Level of dissolved CO2 after lagering. (Petr Otahal)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:30:52 -0700 From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu> Subject: water filters >To add my experience: I also have an undersink spun fiber filter (before >my carbon filter and RO membrane)... My instructions say to replace it >every 6 months... on one occasion, the water started tasting nasty after 3 >so I replaced it then... Every time I open the thing up, even if the water still tastes fine, the filter is orange and smells nasty. I assume that my pipes are very rusty. Makes me really glad that I have the filter. I'd go with their schedule, at least the first couple of times, then, like Rama, make your own decision about how often you need it. cheers, mike >Dana writes: >Should I really replace it after 6 months even though I havn't run anything >close to 600 gals through it? Does the filter somehow degrade with time >requiring the replacement or is the company just trying to get my money? > >I think the reason they say to replace it is to avoid nasties from growing in >the filter after time and making you sick. >I've got an undersink 0.5 micron carbon filter that says the same thing, and >waited about 10 months before replacing it. The water tasted fine, stability >tests on wort made with this water (and one 50/50 mixed wort/filtered water) >both came out okay, but better safe than sorry. After removing the filter, I >cut it open to see if there were any visible build-ups or slime, and it >looked >good as new. Since these filters cost over $30, I'll probably replace them >annually from now on. > >- --rama roberts >san francisco bay area Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:50:03 +1000 (EST) From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM> Subject: Re: Oh Phil ... see what you started ... (fwd) In response to Pat's reasoning; Ah! I see! What you are saying is that being an Australian is similar to being passed out on the floor! That certainly explains many things... Sorry - couldn't resist ;^) Nah, you pretend to pass out to stop Graham talking about himself usually! Scotty Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 06:55:49 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: Re: High FG in Strong Lager Using Beano will work. At the very least it will knock off some simple sugars and get down to some smaller limit dextrin. It will also help if there are a lot of complex sugars (>3 glucoses) in solution. I've done it and know that others have as well...it works. Not really as good as adding alpha amylase (also known as "pilsner enzyme"), but you're right...in either case you can't stop it, although hitting the proper attenuation at room temps then crash cooling and storing at or below 40F should be OK. Cheers! Marc > > ---------- > Marc Sedam ... who has posted tons of great stuff recents adds a > note I can't agree with. > > >It would be even easier to grind up a Beano tablet > >and add it to the fermenter. > > Beano is a galctosidase enzyme and I suspect will have little effect on wort > dextrins. > Not so Marc ? Alpha-amylase would work, but there is no control - once > added it > may overattenuate. Still it's the only repair likely to work. > > -S - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:17:27 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: cask conditioning in a 3 gallon keg Susan asks about splitting a batch between bottles & a 3 gal corny: >I would like some advice and am sure I can get it here. What I am planning on doing is making a 5 gallon batch of Scotish light and then bottling 2 gallons and putting the other 3 gallons in a 3 gallon mini- keg and cask conditioning it from there. >What I really need to know is how much corn sugar or dry malt should be added to the keg to do this and I am thinking that I probably want to put less than 3 gallons in the mini-keg but how much less. I am also planning on brewing this tomorrow and wish to serve it in about 2 weeks. Does this give me time to get it properly carbonated? Or with these time constraints would it be better to just force carbonate lightly and then serve thru the beer engine 3 Gal kegs are wonderful things, wish I had more of them. They make it easy to bottle some of your batch for competition, giving away, etc and keg the rest. I love the small size too, they're so portable - especially with a small CO2 cylinder. But to your question: Why not rack to your bottling bucket, prime as you would normally, then bottle what you want and transfer the rest to the keg to condition there? Two weeks should be enough time to finish, depending on temperature. You can always check it out a few days before you want to serve it. If it's not done; then finish with a little force carbonation. The yeast should have eaten most of the sugar so that the finished beer shouldn't end up significantly sweeter for not being quite done. On the flip side, if you were'nt wanting to serve it as a real ale, you could just go ahead and force carb and be done. A real, cask conditioned ale is obviously different, but otherwise I don't think there is any difference between the taste of force carbed vs. bottle carbed beer (given equal volumes of CO2). Especially since you are talking about consuming the beer right away. If you're talking about beer that will be stored for longer periods of time, I do think there is a significant difference between bottle conditioned beer stored on live yeast, and beer that is force carbed then counter-pressure filled and stored. Ya gotta love those little yeasties, they not only fement the beer for us but protect it as well. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:36:14 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: beer and airplanes Mark T. is inviting everyone in the US to his homebrew club meeting this Thursday, but is sure to mention to BRING HOMEBREW. Having been treated like a king at the Sunshine Challenge last year, I couldn't recommend taking Mark up on the invite more. But, to the point... Those who were at the AHA Annual Meeting (there I go again...getting something valuable out of my "membership"...damn it!) heard this before, but I had a hell of a time bringing homebrew on a plane. The gist of what's below is that if you want to travel with homebrew, make sure it's in a labeled bottle. Just bottle the damn stuff in a microbrew bottle and you'll be OK. Oh, and you can't bring alcohol >70 proof on a plane either. So here goes... I pack a six-pack of delicious Alechemist beers: two Sedamichlauses (my Samichlaus clone), a sour cherry Berliner weiss, a plain Berliner weiss, and two bottles of black-cranberry mead. Wrap each bottle in a clean article of clothing, put in my carry-on, and head to the airport. As I'm in line I realize that my keychain Leatherman (kinda like a Swiss army knife) is still attached to my keys. Damn! So I take it off and randomly stuff it in my bag, hoping it makes it through. Place the carry on through the X-ray and wait...and wait...and wait. Sure enough, they want to check my bag and I get brought over to the "special" section of security. I tell the guards that I'm heading out to a homebrewing competition and have brought some beers. No one seems to care. They take out the beer and see that it doesn't have a label on the bottle. (Note to self: "D'oh!!") Tell me I can't bring it through. I tell them I checked the website and that beer and wine are permitted on flights. "Not if they're unlabeled," I'm told, "We don't know what's in there." Resisting the urge to tell them that if I'm capable of putting beer in an unlabeled bottle I'm probably capable of putting it in a labeled bottle, I ask them what to do. I'm given the option of (a) mailing it to my destination (this is 45 minutes before the flight leaves), (b) throwing it out, (c) having them throw it out, and (d) throwing it out. I pick "e" (throwing it out), and ask one of the security people if I can drink one there. Someone tells me yes, so I start drinking the sour cherry Berliner. It's good, BTW. The entire security force starts telling me that I can't drink the beer there (I'm standing at the foot of the entire security line). By now, I'm holding up most of the line. I start chugging the beer just as the State Police come up to ask exactly what I'm doing while at the same time telling me to stop it. By now I've drank one beer. I give up and mumble stuff about not giving me a good option. Decide that I need to go to the bathroom. Spy the security guard heading to the bathroom with my beer. I wait 30 seconds and head in there, showing surprise and dismay that he's dumping the beer. I ask if I can have another one. He says sure. I choose the mead--12oz bottle of 13%abv mead. Head to the "reading area" of the washroom and hammer down that mead in...ohhhhh...about 30 seconds. I thank him for his time and hit the plane. I'm asleep in 45 minutes for most of the rest of the flight. Of course on the return flight I take the wonderful cornucopia of alcohol products that a friend I met there brought for me in trade (meads and cysers and braggots, oh my!) through security at DFW in 5 seconds. No pauses, no questions, nothing. The kicker? My Leatherman made it through security without any questions, comments, or pauses. Cheers! - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:40:57 -0400 From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net> Subject: RE: Toast My malt Jodie, Yes, you can make your own toasted malt. Spread some pilsner malt (or pale ale) out as a thin layer on a cookie sheet and put this in a medium oven (300-350oF) for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes. Watch it carefully, stirring occasionally. You'll smell and taste the malt to determine when it's done. When it is, take it out and let it cool on the pan. It is best to let this then sit for some time (couple weeks to a month) prior to using it. The "rest" seems to make it less harsh when you use it. Toasted malt works well in a number of beers from American Pale Ale to Vienna. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:45:12 -0400 From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Re: Glass vs. Plastic (again) > Boy, look at these 'canned' answers. Somebody really has it > drilled into these people that 'plastic is bad' and 'glass is > good'. Who started this, the glass manufacturers? Nah. You can ferment in plastic if you want. However, as you said, you will probably have to replace a plastic vessel every year or so. Glass lasts much longer. Glass can get scratched, yes, but its much more difficult to do so - a scrub brush certainly won't scratch glass, where a scrub brush could scratch plastic in a way that's difficult to clean up afterwards. My personal opinion is that glass is more difficult to clean, physically... but plastic is more difficult to sanitize. Personally, I've had experience with the later, and it wasn't pretty smelling -- one of the souring bacterias. The worst time for wort spoiling is between the time the beer finishes boiling and the time the beer finishes fermenting. Sanitation is critical of course throughout the process, but that vessel really needs to be sanitary. As long as you are willing to be cautious with plastic, you are fine... personally, after starting out on plastic, I'm with the glass folks now. :) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:14:44 +1000 From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: The Coriolis Party Steve comments: >but that's just a frame of reference thing - the Aussies are >looking at the bottom of their beers from where I stand. First of all, let me say I wish I had of attended Steve's office party last year. Sounds like everyone had a hell of a good time. Not that I think most of them would remember much about it. And Pat Babcock offers: >Ah! I see! What you are saying is that being an Australian is >similar to being passed out on the floor! That certainly >explains many things... To put this all in perspective, when I looked into the "top" of my beer I saw Steve at the bottom of my beer looking into the top of his beer. And at the end of Steve's wild office part, I looked up to see a lot of people (they looked like Americans to me Pat) lying on my ceiling!! At this point I went to bed and put the whole frightening experience down to badly oxidised beer! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:28:32 -0400 From: "DRTEELE" <drteele at bellsouth.net> Subject: Sean vs. AHA - Bury the Hatchet To all, As one of the early respondents to Sean's comments here on the HBD regarding the AHA, I feel the need to re-post here to request that everyone take a step back to re-evaluate the situation. Sean and I have been discussing privately our differences of opinion. And while we still do not agree on some issues, I can tell you this - Sean did have the interests of the AHA in mind when he posted here on the HBD. His intent was to foster a discussion on the AHA and it's current member programs. And while some (or many) of us may disagree with his methods, his motives were respectable. If we (Sean and I) can progress from calling each other 'coward' and 'childish' to having a mutual respect for each other, then I think the rest of the HBD posters could stand to re-evaluate their animosity towards him. Now, granted, you do not have the benefit of having read our private posts, and you don't know me from Adam's house cat, But I think we all agree that this thread is getting us nowhere. So let's let bygones be bygones and get back to something we ALL agree on ......BREWING! Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 07:22:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com> Subject: HERMS / pump Is anybody using their immersion chiller as their HERMS coil? Is a 1/15 hp pump to much? I have a variable transformer to back it down a bit. How hard is to step mash with direct heat on the mash tun and the pump? "And I don't want to die, I just want to ride on my motor-cy-cle." -Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:01:18 -0500 From: Ray Daniels <raydan at ameritech.net> Subject: Zymurgy planning . . . OK, I'm looking for contributions in the following areas. If you want to write about one of these or would like to recommend someone you know to write about them, drop me a line. No sparge brewing / batch sparging. (Define the terms, tell how it is done, pros and cons.) Prague/Pilsen beers and brewing - Visited this area? Studied the beers? Have some insights into Pilsener Urquell, Budvar, etc. And don't forget U Fleku and the great black lagers made here. I'm thinking of doing a whole issue on this area's beers, so I need a bunch of stuff. Let me hear from you. That should do for now. Ray Daniels Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer Director, Brewers Publications ray at aob.org 773-665-1300 Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual magazines. For more information, see www.beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:15:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Beer Drinker <srm775 at yahoo.com> Subject: Goose Island IPA clone Not sure if anyone saw this post, but I was wondering if anyone had a recipe for Goose Island IPA. I tried it once while in the chicago-land area and would like to duplicate it. Thanks and go Red Sox Red Sox fan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:00:04 -0400 From: "Hache, Marc" <HacheM at PIOS.COM> Subject: Acetobacter - Thanks for the help - one more question Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate the suggestions. Since I have a couple of glass fermenters I will try that for my next batch and see what happens. Since my plastic fermenter is close to 6 years old, it may be time to replace (even Bill Wible says once a year or so (said with appreciation and tongue firmly planted in cheek)). Not convinced that's the problem but at this point my already receding hairline has almost disappeared! I guess what's frustrating is that up until the batches started going bad, my process and equipment stayed the same. One other possible source is the turkey baster I use for a liquid thief. The owner of my local brew shop traced his infection to that. Apparently it is very difficult to sanitize rubber effectively. Will be relegating the baster to it's intended purpose and getting a proper wine thief. Bill's comment about it being July and hot made me wonder whether fermentation was over so quick that one week in the primary might be too long. Will watch closer. Kent Fletcher mentioned test strips for the iodophor solution, Kent can I get more detail ? I checked with my LHBS and they have never heard of them, do you have a brand or manufacturer name ? More detail for the record: - The fermentation was very active, I use the larger liquid yeast packs which, although they don't match a starter, do provide a heck of a lot of activity quickly. - The kegs were sterilized as well. Thanks again, Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:05:12 -0700 From: "Brian Schar" <schar at cardica.com> Subject: Plastic, glass, polycarbonate I have been brewing for almost 10 years and fermenting exclusively in plastic, and I haven't had any problems. I like plastic for several reasons. The primary reason is safety. I am uncomfortable with the idea of lugging around big glass bottles full of hot liquid, in part because I have known two brewers who have been hurt pretty badly by broken carboys. This is not to say that there aren't safe ways to handle carboys; rather, that my own risk tolerance level is pretty low. Second, the plastic fermenters are cheap, and I replace mine every year or so to minimize the chances of infection. Ultimately, people should go with what works for them. If I had experienced infections earlier in my brewing career, I can easily imagine I would have ended up in glass as well. On a related note, does anyone out there ferment in Lexan/Nalgene/polycarbonate carboys? I have seen 5 gallon polycarbonate carboys for sale on line from lab supply places, and I've wondered if they might be a best-of-both-worlds combination of plastic safety and glass scratch-resistance. Brian Schar Menlo Park, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:08:46 -0400 From: Tod H Lewark <mrgoodbeer at juno.com> Subject: Fw: plastic primarys, septic tank, propane. I'm moving to a country house with a septic tank and propane heat. Regarding the septic tank, are there any sanitizers or other chemicals I should or should not use in brewing, winemaking, or housekeeping? Would it be feasible to connect my outdoor burners to the big propane tank, and if so, how? I have a nice antique gas stove I've brewed on for about 15 years also. Can I convert it to propane, and if so, how? There is a slow spring (like a faucet on medium opening) I will have tested, downhill. Any suggestions on a low-flow pump? I also have city water. I started brewing in 1978 with a crock for a primary, which I covered with plastic wrap, and carboys for secondarys. About 1987 I got two used 7 1/2 gallon plastic primarys at an auction, and have used them ever since, adding a third new one in the early 90's. About 3 years ago the old lids developed cracks aound the airlock hole, so I got new lids. I clean gently, but there are some obvious rough spots. I've never had an infection I could trace to these primarys. I store my unused fermenters with a slosh of bleach in an inch of water, with lids and airlocks on primarys, a double thickness of plastic wrap on the carboys. When I need one, I rinse well and am ready to go. No staining from dark wine or beer. It works for me. As ye brew, so shall ye drink. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:11:49 -0400 From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com Subject: high temperature mash I made an oatmeal stout according to the recomendations of a homebrewer which involved one-step mashing at 162 F and used malted barley. I realized that the mash temp. would cut down the fermentables substantially. I got an initial gravity of 1.058 and racked at 1.026 where the gravity remained. I did a Clintest fermentable reading and got about 0.5% to 0.6% remaining fermentables so I bottled the 5 gallons with only 3 oz. of sugar. It tasted great before bottling, and I will try a bottle soon. Andy Kligerman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:45:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com> Subject: re: Toast My malt? Jodie writes: I'm about to brew a recipe that calls for toasted 2-row pale malt. Do I toast it in the oven as I would nuts for baking? Jodie, I've toasted malt once while following this recipe, which came out great: http://www.byo.com/recipe/638.html It suggests: "toast the malt on a cookie sheet for 30 min. at 350 F" rama roberts san francisco bay area Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:10:58 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com> Subject: RE: Brewing without lifting Walt asks about brewing without lifting. Hmmm, If I could get the girlfriend to do the brewing for me, that would be about perfect. But.. since nothing in this world is perfect, that option is fubar. I have the same problem, a bad back. my seatbelt worked but the shoulder strap was designed too low and when the auto accident happened, I snapped forward midway down the back and got a compression fracture of the T12 vertebrae. Thank you Acura... So I've just finished building my rims. It's a one tier rims, all on one level. 3 pumps; two mag pumps and a peristaltic. There's a couple of areas I have to improve my procedures but about the only lifting I have to do is the hops & adding/removing grain. It's kind of "busy" but I designed it to fit my back. Pumps & forethought will do you about as well as can be done. Gary BTW, a friend in Michigan brews outside and has a hole in the house's foundation where he runs a tube to the basement for transfer to the primary. Another friend in CT had his house built with a walk-in fridge especially set up for homebrewing. Off topic, a fellow Ham Radio operator I know does contests where there he has a separate amplifier for each band he contests on ( 8 in all ). He didn't like the noise of all the fans so he installed one fan in the basement and then routed separate manifolds to each amplifier so all you hear in the room is a low whooshing sound. All the fan noise is in the basement. I guess the reason I put that last part in is an example to not be afraid to try anything you think might be easier. A little trial & error & you'll be lifting far less than you do now. You know the drill; Necessity is the mother... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:19:49 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Jim" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: What's in your Fridge? I see Bill must have paid attention to Mr. Robinson when he gave Dustin Hoffman the one word advice... "PLASTICS" Bill did you run out and buy shares of DuPont? Let me give all of you "one word" users be it glass or plastic "two words" of advice "Stainless Steel" Coriolis- I got so dizzy reading Steve's office party description of going around and around that I barfed all over those poor soles from down under that were passed out on the floor. Of course they are used to us Northern Hemerisperic (?) types barfing on them from time to time. Last Year, to celebrate July as American Beer Month, Pat Babcock ask "What American Beer do you have In your Fridge"? This year in addition to what American Beer do you have you need a good "Beer Snack" to munch on while enjoying your favorite American Beer. What is your favorite beer snack and what is the most unusual "snack" you have seen served at a bar? In the last issue of Zymurgy, Jeff Renner had an article on making pretzels. I also recall a few comments about it in the HBD. Pretzels I think can be considered a "Beer Snack." Along with Jeff's pretzels there are other popular items served as snacks at bars. Beer Nuts, Popcorn, Party Mix, Cheese Straws, "Slim Jim's", Beef Jerky, Potato Chips, Jalapeno Cheese Poppers and Buffalo Wings. In Lisbon, Portugal all the bars have these containers on the bar with a hominy type corn that you eat and spit out the tough skin part on the floor. Bubba of the "Millsap Small Engine and Chainsaw Repair" serves pickled pig knuckles in the back room. Martha Sue, Bubba's common law wife, puts them up herself in gallon jars. She puts a gallon on each end of the work bench they use as a bar on Friday and Saturday nights. If you want one you just tell Martha Sue and she lets you pick out the one you want, just like they do the lobsters in the nicer places. Martha Sue then just reaches in and pulls the one you selected out and puts it on one of those red shop towels if front of you. The shop towel comes in handy to wipe your chin of all the grease running down when you're chewing on one of the larger gristles. Pickled Pig feet and Pickled Eggs are popular in this part of the country. American Beer: New Belgium's Fat Tire and Triple Snacks: Anything but Pig Knuckles Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:52:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com> Subject: mashing and attenuation Paul Shick wrote... > I've used the Fix regime a lot, although less often in recent >years, because I ended up with beers that were too dry and attenuated, >especially with the 45minutes at 60C, 15 at 70C Steve used. As Jeff >suggests, I've moved to a higher rest for the beta-amylase emphasis >(I've used 148F or so,) but to avoid overattenuation rather than >underattenuation. When I mentioned this the head brewer at a good >local brewpub, he wasn't surprised at all by my overattenuation >problems. >He points out that malts have become so modified in recent years (even >more so in the last few,) that we often get complete conversion in >as little as 15 minutes, even a low temperatures such as 140F. We >argued (and sampled beer) over this until pretty late, but he finally >convinced me. I've heard this too, and from a great many commercial brewers. Ahem these malts are made for and marketed to these folks, and some of the concepts don't translate perfectly to the world of homebrewing, nor should they. The notion that "full starch conversion can be achieved in 15 minutes" appears to be saturated in a good deal of commercial brewing rhetoric based on the principles of chemistry that we've discussed in recent posts, and the experiences of this community. This cannot pertain to the total % of avaialable starch in the mash. In addition, malt modification really shouldn't be a major factor here. The relationship between malt modification and mashing is most profound when assessing the need for an acid and/or protein rest or the implementation of a decoction mash. >This has prompted me to raise my dough in temperature even higher, >in many cases, to about 152F for 20 or so minutes, before raising to >158F, except for beer where I'm looking for a dry finish (like a CAP.) >So I guess I'm siding with Marc Sedam in this exchange: the likely >culprit for underattenuation is underpitching/underaeration. I suspect we need to consider a few more variables. In addition to the standard saccharification rests in a step or infusion mash, there is also the episode of mash-out and sparging. I am under the impression that the main purpose of the mash-out is to de-activate any viable enzymes so that the integrity of the malt constitution will be maintained after the sparge, which in most instances is going to be longer than the combined rest times. Conversion appears to go on in force during the sparge if mash-out is not achieved. Consequently, the malt will be mashing at high temperatures 160-165 which will leave your alphas as the only enzyme in action and will produce a highly dextrinous wort. (To me, this appears to be yet another potential reason for the first/second runnings scheme, but this is pure, unadulterated speculation). Do we know if the beer is truly underattenuated? Or is it simply a dextrinous beer? From where I'm coming from the difference is notable. An underattenuated beer being one that has fermentables left over that didn't get metabolised due to a)temperature incompatibility b)nutrient deficits c)low pitching rates d)highly flocculent yeasts etc. If the fermentation potholes have been filled-in properly, then that points us back to the mash. Possibly the solution is as simple as many folks have suggested time and time again... Yeast nutrient/aeration/rousing etc. But maybe, some late-mash calisthenics need to be considered. Kevin Crouch Vancouver, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 02:26:19 +0000 From: "A. J. delange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: The modelling of speciality malts Brewers (and Jeff), The bloke at Birmingham was looking for a quick way to measure the color of malt subject to temperature and moisture and settled on treating the processed malt as a document i.e. he put it on a document scanner and then used image processing software to measure the L, a, b (this is a set of color coordinates) values. L is the brightness and this he uses to describe the color of the malt. One could poke lots of holes in this technique. For example, beer (and malt color which is determined by measuring the color of a Congress mash in the same way that beer color is measured) is based on a single point spectral absorbtion measurement at the blue end of the spectrum whereas the L value is a broadband measurement weighted most heavily in the green part of the spectrum. Nevertheless, because of the similarities in the shapes of absorbtion spectra of malt derived solutions, the L measurement (or rather the log of L) should correlate quite well with EBC color. The investigator could improve the accuracy of his results by the use of a reflection spectrophotometer used in many industries to measure the colors of opaque samples. These take actual spectral measurements and calculate color in any of several coordinate systems. More to the point, they are capable of the single measurement (420 nm ?) which defines EBC color. While not inexpensive these instruments are well within the budget of a reasonably well equipped laboratory. A.J. Jeff Renner wrote: > Brewers > > I don't understand much of this, but there is an article at > http://www.biotech.bham.ac.uk/BTNews44/Speciality%20Malts.htm > On roasted and crystal malts and modeling their color by sue of a > scanner and formulae that I couldn't possibly understand. Someone may > find it interesting and enlightening. I've cc'd AJ, who gave a talk > on color analysis of beer at MCAB4 in Cleveland. maybe he can make > something of it. > > Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:16:44 +1000 From: Petr Otahal <potahal at utas.edu.au> Subject: Level of dissolved CO2 after lagering. Hi All, I'm a long time reader but very infrequent poster to the HBD, but recently I've been having a discussion with a fellow home brewer about carbonation and the levels of carbon dioxide dissolved in beer. If we can use the tables supplied by Dave Draper and Mark Hibberd (see the carbonation section in the The Brewery Library), what I would like to know is how much fermentation goes on during lagering. Let me illustrate my question(s) by way of example. Take two identical beers: Beer A and Beer B. Both Beer A and B undergo the same fermentation for two weeks at 10C (50F). After the two week period the beers are racked to a secondary fermenter (with minimal head space) which releases excess CO2 from the beers and they come to an equilibrium with 1.2 Vol. of CO2 dissolved in the beers (as per above articles). Beer A is then slowly lowered to a lagering temperature of 2C (36F), but beer B is slowly raised to 20C (68F) for a diacetyl rest (two to three days) and then slowly lowered back down to lager at 2C. They both undergo lagering for a period of 8 weeks and are then bottled. The questions are based on the need to calculate priming sugar: At the end of the lagering period how many volumes of CO2 does each beer hold? and what variables does this depend on? Will they both reach the saturation level of dissolved CO2 at 2C (1.6volumes)? Does the fermentation of Maltotriose occur fast enough to be finished in the initial primary ferment of two weeks? or does it occur during the lagering (or diacetyl rest)? Thanks in advance for any discussion on this topic. Cheers Petr Otahal Brewing in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia (hows that Jeff?) Return to table of contents
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