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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  World's Fastest Fermentation? ("John Misrahi")
  Re: How can I tell if my nose is working? ("John Bonney")
  RE: Bill M's "nose calibration test" (Paul Shick)
  Re: Beer Road Trip (Portland OR) ("Joel Plutchak")
  re: sanitizer (Paul Kensler)
  Re: More Pretzel stuff (Rick)
  re: Yield/Color Table (Rama Roberts)
  re: AHA Club Only Competitions ("Gregory Lorton")
  Portland Brewpubs ("Parker Dutro")
  defective nose? ("Parker Dutro")
  re: What's in your Fridge? Beer snacks (Bill Tobler)
  RE:  Lager/beer fridge (Bill Tobler)
  ball valve keg woes ("dave holt")
  Re: Cold vs. Warm commercial beer (David Radwin)
  pacific nw (Jeff & Ellen)
  Re: Scotmalt anyone? (Jeff Renner)


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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:17:03 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: World's Fastest Fermentation?

Hi All,

I just had something seemingly strange happen. Yesterday morning/early
afternoon i brewed a 5 gallon all grain pale sort of ale.

3kg 2-row
500 g. light crystal
500 g. victory
250 g. corn meal
25g. horizon hops (60 min)
25 g. hallertauer plugs (30 min)
25 g. hallertauer plus (5 min)

my o.g. was  1.036

i pitched 2 packets of dry danstar windsor yeast. I cleaned up and went out,
and when i came home it was fermenting nicely, big krausen, frothing, the
side of the fermenter felt *quite* warm too.

Anyways, this morning, the krausen has almost completely subsided, it doesnt
seem to be fizzing anymore, and , the kicker, the gravity is 1.010!!!

What the? I've made low gravity beers before but never had one ferment out
so fast!!! I wasn't going to use a secondary - just bottle it after a week
or so in primary to have something to drink soon.. But now there is no more
co2 being produced and no protective krausen.

What do i do? Should I bottle it this quickly and let the aging happen in
bottles? Or go borrow a carboy tomorrow and put it in that?

help!

John M.




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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:28:56 -0400
From: "John Bonney" <john at ruthsx.com>
Subject: Re: How can I tell if my nose is working?

Bill,

Try breathing in VERY, VERY, VERY slowly when you're smelling something.  I
too thought I had a schnoz problem for the longest time.  Turns out I was
just sniffing to fast.  Once I slowed down the inhale rate, I immediately
noticed a difference.

I'm enjoying my farts on a whole new level now!

John Bonney
Grand Rapids, MI



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:56:00 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE: Bill M's "nose calibration test"


Hi all,

        Bill Macher writes in asking about a
"nose calibration test," worried that he's not
getting as much out of beer aroma as he should.

        Bill, your best bet is to round up some
folks and work through the BJCP Study Guide together
(then take the exam at the end.)  It's a great
excuse to get together with a group of people once
a week, talk about some aspect of brewing, then
taste and judge some good beers.  At the end of 10
weeks, your palate and nose will be much more educated
than they were, and you'll have impressed your friends
with your dedication to academic work.  You might also
round up an experienced taster/judge to help coach your
group through parts of the course, but it's quite possible
to do it all on your own.

        Once you have a handle on beer styles, you'll
find that there are tons of competitions looking for
judges and stewards (even "serious" novices.)  It's a
great learning experience to sit next to a very experienced
judge and compare your perceptions with his/hers.  That
odd note in the aroma that you can detect but not put a
name to suddenly becomes clear.  You also find out what
aromas or tastes you're sensitive or insensitive to.  In my
case, I'm relatively blind to diacetyl, but I pick up
certain kinds of oxidation compounds at very low levels.
For others, it's exactly the opposite.

        Check out the BJCP site at www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/.
The Study Guide is a great service, written by  Edward Wolfe,
Scott Bickham, David Houseman, Ginger Wotring, Dave Sapsis,
Peter Garofalo and Chuck Hanning.  I (and many others) owe
these seven people a lot of thanks.

        Good luck with educating your senses.


                 Paul Shick
                 Cleveland Hts, Ohio







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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:45:16 +0000
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Beer Road Trip (Portland OR)


"Terry L. Wilmoth" <tbear6 at fuse.net> wrote:
>Two musts in Portland: 1) Bridgeport Brewing.  If you visit only one 
>brewery in Portland, make it Bridgeport.  2) The Horse Brass Pub ->
>the local outlet for Full Sail Brewing (Full Sail is located in Hood River, 
>OR in the Columbia River Gorge about an hour's drive east of Portland
>well worth the drive, but if you can't, go to the Horse Brass, better
>yet, do both)
>
>Bridgeport is beer Nirvana, Full Sail is damn close IMHO.

   ACKKKK!  I suspect you may get a bit of feedback on this matter.

   Most egregious is assigning the Horse Brass some sort of relationship
with Full Sail.  That's simply not true.  The Horse Brass is a wonderful
place to find a large variety of well-kept beer-- local, regional, domestic,
and imported-- on cask, in kegs, and in bottles. It's owned by Don Younger,
who also owns Belmont Station[*], the excellent bottle shop across the 
walkway
from the Horse Brass.  IMO if you had only one stop in Portland it would
hands down be the Horse Brass Pub, with an obligatory saunter over to
Belmont Station for a few "hotel beers."  I just got back from what's
becoming an annual trip to Portland and the highlight of this trip was
sitting at the Horse Brass bar with a couple friends chatting with Don
Younger himself over beers like J.W. Lees Hrvest Ale gravity-dispensed
from a wooden keg, Harveston's Old Engine Oil hand-pumped from a cask,
etc.   The Full Sail Pilsner Room is what you seem to have gotten confused
with the Horse Brass.  It has a location at the southernmost end of
the west downtown-y area right on the river.  It's a brewpub that features
their own beer, Full Sail brews from the main brewery in Hood River, and
a couple-three dozen guest beers.  I thoroughly enjoy visiting The Pilsner
Room, though the service outside is often molasses-slow and prone to 
errors--
sit at the bar inside, or at least order every other beer directly from the
bar.  This is another place I try not to miss if in town.
   Bridgeport Brewing is nice, and always has a small selection of decent
beers on, but I don't think they do any guest beers, and since they were
bought by a big, non-local concern some years back seem to harken more
to the bottom line than to brewing cutting edge craft beer.  E.g., when I
was there they had no barleywine available. Rumor has it they either (a)
stopped brewing it for "space concerns", or (b) will only be brewing it
every few years because "that's how long it lasts."  Gee, maybe if they
brought it to festivals like the OBF or put it on in small-volume kegs
at the brewery they'd sell more.  (Do you sense my disappointment at not
being able to enjoy their barleywine this year? ;-)  Bridgeport, to me,
isn't a "must-see" in Portland.  Do try their ubiquitous IPA on cask at
The Horse Brass, or Higgins (a short stroll from The Pilsner Room; also
recommended over Bridgeport), and if you do make it to the brewery have
some porter with some of their pizza. And give 'em a hard time about the
barleywine. :-)

   Portland is really a beer-savvy city, and even the smallest bar
or pizza joint will have a good local tap or two.  It's hard to go
wrong, but I'd put the Horse Brass Pub at the top of the list.

[*] See <http://www.horsebrass.com/> & follow the links.

Joel Plutchak
Beer-bereft in small-town East-central Illinois



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: sanitizer

Jim Steinbrunner described a very efficient
sanitizer-saving process and later in the same digest,
Victor Franklin asked: "Does sanitizer ever go bad?  I
have some unfinished iodine, which is about two years
old."

Jim, I'd recommend getting those iodine test strips as
you suggested, just to make sure you've got enough
iodine in solution to keep the job getting done or at
least keep an eye on the color.  

Victor, you especially might want to get some of these
test strips since your iodophor has been kept in a hot
garage.  They look like pH test papers but they tell
you how many ppm iodine is in solution.  Then again,
I'm not sure how much test strips cost - it might just
be cheaper to buy some fresh sanitizer.

Long self-indulgent story:
I once bought a gallon jug of iodophor (it was really
cheap) and I thought it would be the last iodophor I
would ever buy even though I generally mix the
solution on the strong side, 25ppm.  Eventually after
3 or 4 years, I noticed that my iodine solutions just
didn't seem very dark - they kept getting lighter and
lighter.

I did some research and read that iodine readily
evaporates but they put some sort of binding agent in
the iodophor to keep it in the liquid.  The binding
agent slows the evaporation process but doesn't stop
it.  So, a solution of iodophor will lose its iodine
eventually over time - apparently, the iodine in my
iodophor had been evaporating over the course of a few
years, gradually making it weaker and therefore
putting less iodine into my sanitizing solution.  

What's more, the binding agents in the iodophor are
apparently pretty attractive to various bacteria - so
not only will the sanitizing solution lose its
sanitizing ability, but it becomes a breeding ground
for bacteria.

Since then, I've switched to Star San (which doesn't
evaporate) and been using a system darn-near identical
to Jim's - I keep reusing and reusing the same
solution, topping up with fresh whenever necessary, or
siphoning the clean solution off any solids that
manage to get in there and settle out (hop bits,
plastic bits, laundry room lint, dog hair, my
glasses...).  It sure is handy to have a bucket of
sanitizer around at all times!


Also, Star San seems to do a better job of penetrating
any left over motor oil when you ferment in an old
Chevy engine block ;-) ...sorry, couldn't resist.


Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More Pretzel stuff

Bill,

Thanks for posting that great link.  I'm finally going
to bake some pretzels this weekend so I can perfect
them for my Oktoberfest party.

To all that may be interested, I found a chemical
supplier that sells food grade (NF/FCC) lye (sodium
hydroxide) and also has pretty good prices on lab
equipment like Erlenmyer flasks.  I just placed an
order so I can't report on them yet. (NAJACYYY)

For those interested here's the info:

http://shop.chemassociates.com/shopsite/rasheman/feat_products.html

Rick Seibt
Mentor, OH



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: Yield/Color Table

Shawn writes:
Does anyone know where I can get a table listing common grain                   
yield(pts)and color(L).

Check out: 
http://www.byo.com/referenceguide/grains/

(Man, that's my second BYO referral in 1 week, you'd think I was looking
for a free subscription or something. Hint hint.)

rama roberts
san francisco bay area







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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:11:09 -0700
From: "Gregory Lorton" <glorton at cts.com>
Subject: re: AHA Club Only Competitions

Mike Rogers wrote:
What gives with the May competition?  One of our club members submitted his
entries and hasn't received feedback.  They haven't even cashed the check...
He has corresponded via Email, but no details have been given.  The AHA
should add guidelines associated with the turnaround of the results.  This
is getting out of control.  Anyone else experienced similar concerns?  How's
2-6 weeks for a guideline?

One to two weeks should be a reasonable amount of time.  The results can be
e-mailed out in a few days, but it seems to take an organizer a couple of
hours to do the copying and stuffing of envelopes, and that would best
happen on a weekend (hopefully the following weekend).

Unfortunately, there is tremendous variability between clubs when it comes
to handling club-only competitions.  I entered one contest where I received
the scoresheets back one month after the contest, with the number 3 circled
at the top of one sheet.  (This meant that I finished third.)  On the other
hand, the Derby Brew Club mailed their results out shortly after the
Dunkelmania contest, and included a two-page enclosure that described the
results, had photos - very nice.  Several years ago, the Rillito Creek Brew
Club in Tucson set a lofty standard by setting up a website for their
Club-Only, and they had the results up on the site the next day.

Hopefully, the AHA keeps track of which clubs do a good job and which clubs
don't.  We share your pain, and we tried not to let that happen when we
hosted ours.

Cheers
Greg Lorton
Carlsbad, CA
QUAFF



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:59:17 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Portland Brewpubs

Floyd,
  I second the Horse Brass, visit if possible.  Bridgeport is a great
beer, but I have no experience with the pub itself.  Hear its EXCELLENT
food, though.  I would add to the list the Rogue brewery.  It's in the
same neighborhood as Bridgeport, and the beer is the best in town.
Friends of mine and I agree that Rogue is everything great about beer.
Have a good visit!

Parker Dutro,
P-town, Oregon

"Excuse me doctor, but I think I know a little something about
medicine!"
 -Homer Simpson






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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:02:38 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: defective nose?

Bill, 
  Whatever you get out of smelling beer, you will have to make due with!
I like to smell beer to anticipate the taste when I do finally put the
glass to my lips.  Everybody has a differing scent palate, but the sense
of smell is so intimately involved with the sense of taste that, if you
take a sniff of brew and tries to use the front of your tongue to taste
the smell, your brain should merge the two actions.  Look at it this
way, maybe it's not your sniffer that's the problem, perhaps your brain
is too effective at segregating your senses.  I have found that I get a
better "scent sample" when I take a very slow sniff, and try to keep the
fragrance at the edge or tips of my nostrils.  It may sound weird, but
it really makes a difference for me.  If I just snort or suck air in a
smelling act, I get almost nothing.  But when I just hold my nose over
the glass and draw almost nothing, I get the full fragrance of the beer.
Maybe try experimenting.  How is your sense of taste?  How long do
tastes linger on your tongue?  Your sense of taste may be dulled.  As
far as a way to gauge your sense of taste, I don't know if it's
possible?  That's like saying that you know for sure that the color you
see as "green" is the same hue as what I call "green".  
Do you take allergy medicine or anything like that?

"Excuse me doctor, but I think I know a little something about
medicine!"
 -Homer Simpson





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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:56:06 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: re: What's in your Fridge? Beer snacks

I usually like pretzels with my beer. (Store bought kind, but the soft ones
the other day were great)  Or nothing at all.  But....If you happen to be
drinking a CAP, without a doubt, the very best snack I have found is
cashews.  Unbelievable taste combination.  I should send that to Fred
Eckhardt for his beer tasting reviews. Cheers

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:06:15 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  Lager/beer fridge

Chris,
  Usually uprights don't work for brewing because the shelves, which are
built in, are the cooling racks where the Freon is.  You can't tear them out
because the freezer won't work when all the Freon leaks out and destroys the
ozone layer. Right. I have heard of someone bending them down, without
breaking them, and using the freezer.  Not sure I would want to try that.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:11:17 -0700
From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com>
Subject: ball valve keg woes

I guess I should have been more descriptive on the Co2 side of my kegs 
leaking.  When I am carbonating the beer, you get the initial whoosh into 
the keg until equilibrium is reached, and then I hear a tiny hissing noise 
thereafter.  If I push down on the gas quick connect, sometimes the sound 
goes away, sometimes just a little fainter, and sometimes worse.  I have 
interpreted this to mean that Co2 is leaking between the ball valve o-ring 
and quick connect.  I've tried new o-rings, pin lock o-rings because they 
are thicker, keg lube, and new quick connects to no avail.

On the beer and Co2 side, I spritz iodophor on the poppets because these do 
have a tendency to not seat correctly.  If it bubbles, I know to reseat it 
with a small screwdriver.  Ed Jones wrote me privately suggesting that I do 
this too.  Just have to remember when the keg is full not to push on the 
beer side indoors or near the face.  Makes for a nice beer enema in the nose 
and beer on the ceiling.

Paul Kenser sent an email with a good troubleshooting guide. Unfortunately, 
all the suggestions have been done already.  Paul did jog my memory that my 
last tank of Co2 didn't seem to last very long.  I went to use it and the 
tank was empty. Hmm, I left the valve open. Wonder if I have a leak?  Which 
Paul related that he had a problem with a certain regulator used on a 
certain tank and if he swapped the multiple tanks and regulators he own, the 
problem went away.

Paul also suggested that I use Star San to check for leaks between the ball 
valve o-ring and the quick connect.  I like this suggestion and will try out 
this weekend.

Then Kent Fletcher wrote:

>Dave, pardon an obvious question, but do they leak WITHOUT the tank 
> >attached? If not, the leak is in your CO2 setup. Most likely suspect >is 
>the hose connection at the QD. Had this problem myself, lost 5 lbs >of CO2 
>in the cooler. Tighten that flare connection! You can also get >flare 
>seals. Less likely is the hose itself, or the connection at the >regulator. 
>Remote possibility is the pop-off on the regulator itself. >Grab that 9/16 
>wrench and cinch down that flare, dude!

Thanks Kent.  From Paul and I's discussion, and from your post, I need to go 
off and investigate the Co2 tank setup.  Regulator/tank, fittings, hoses, 
the quick connect.

Dave Holt
Forest Lakes, AZ





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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:38:59 -0700
From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Cold vs. Warm commercial beer

> From: Wil at maltydog.com
> Subject: Cold vs. Warm commercial beer

> Where did this get started and who started it. Perhaps Coors?
> Have you ever refused retail beer because it was cold/warm/cold?
> Am I nuts? I have, as they say, "drank enough beer to float a
> battleship around" and it has gone from cold to warm to cold more than
> a time or two and I have never had it "go bad"
> Ideas?

At the Anchor Steam brewery tour in San Francisco, which I highly 
recommend (it's free and they give you plenty of beer to sample), they 
say that they require their beer to be shipped to and stored cold in the 
stores in the 49 states it serves. The 50th state, Oklahoma, apparently 
has a law against selling cold beer that is intended to reduce drinking 
and driving. I don't recall what purpose the refigeration serves, 
although someone (maybe the tour guide) told me that exposure to light 
is the real culprit in skunking beer.

The above notwithstanding, I have seen cases of Anchor Steam sitting 
unrefrigerated at our local warehouse club, about 20 miles from the 
brewery, so I guess the refigeration rule isn't that strictly enforced. 
  Anyway, I find the refigeration requirement ironic considering that 
Steam (California Common) beer is originally the result of lack of 
refigeration (lager yeast fermented at room temperature).

- -- 
David Radwin
hbd at davidradwin.com



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:14:08 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: pacific nw

I've enjoyed reading the recent posts about beer and traveling in Seattle 
and Portland.  From my standpoint in Florida in July, the Pacific Northwest 
is a cool fantasy and pleasant memory of past trips.  We've always had 
perfect weather when traveling in the summer months.
A few years ago, we stayed at the Kennedy School, one of the McMennamins 
Pubs in Portland, and had a wonderful time.  The beer was not the 
highlight.  The art and charm of the building was.  There is artistry to 
every detail, making it fun just to walk around inside the building.  The 
Horsebrass Pub is not far from The Kennedy School and is a great place for 
cask ales.
Portland Brewing Company is impressive for its huge, shiny copper kettles. 
 Bridgeport is a must.  The drive to Full Sail is awesome.  How many 
waterfalls can you stand to see in one morning?  Full Sail's tasting room 
overlooks the "wind surfing capitol of the world", if I'm not mistaken.
There's great beer everywhere.  'Wish I were there now.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa, where it's hot and I'm running out of homebrew



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:30:32 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Scotmalt anyone?

Ed Evans <eevans at moscow.com> asked

>My preferred HB shop switched (based on customer feedback) from Marris Otter
>to Scotmalt[1].
>What's the word on Scotmalt? Any experience?

There's a little nomenclature problem here - Maris Otter is a variety 
of malting barley - Maris is a breeder that names its barleys after 
native English mammals.  There is also Maris hedgehog and badger, I 
believe.  Maris Otter is a superior malting barley that has been 
superceded by newer varieties, or at least would be if the farmers 
and breeders had their way.  But fortunately, maltsters are able to 
keep it going by paying farmers a premium.

Now Scotmalt is a maltster.  They could malt Maris Otter if they 
chose to, and they may well.  I don't know.  But when you say your HB 
shop switched from Maris Otter to Scotmalt, that doesn't quite make 
sense.  I suspect they switched from Baird or some other maltster to 
Scotmalt.  Scotmalt malts are fine British style malts - I used them 
when our local supplier carried them.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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