---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Ball lock leaks ("Kent Fletcher")
  Looking for a favourite Marzen recipe ("Parker Dutro")
  AHA Club Only Competitions ("Rogers, Mike")
  Yield/Color Table ("Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D")
  Strong back, weak mind, loves lifting ("Dewalt, Scott")
  re: ball lock kegs (Ed Jones)
  RE: Ball lock Kegs, cleaning thereof ("Steven Parfitt")
  I think the pump is dead, Jim (Ed Jones)
  Plastic, Sanitation and Conservation (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
  Re:  plastic vs glass debate ("Joel Plutchak")
  Re: Pike's "Naughty Nellie" (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Beer Road Trip ("Terry L. Wilmoth")
  re: What's in your Fridge? Beer snacks ("TED MAJOR")
  Dry Ice Contaminants ("John Gubbins")
  Re: What's in your fridge (beer snacks) (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  How can I tell if my nose is working? ("macher2")
  RE: fermenting in an engine block (Svlnroozls)
  RE: more plastic mythology (Brian Lundeen)
  RE: Ahem, Mssrs Scime and Avis! (Brian Lundeen)
  A hearty thanks (walcin1)
  Lager/beer fridge ("chris eidson")
  Cold vs. Warm commercial beer (Wil)
  re: propane (CCG6 FIWC)" <haywoodk at ccg6.navy.mil>
  More Pretzel stuff (Bill Tobler)
  RE: NW road trip (Kevin Crouch)
  Scotmalt anyone? (eevans)
  Bad Malt Extract? - Sanitizer (Victor.E.Franklin)
  RE: NW weather (Kevin Crouch)
  Oud Bruin Questions ("David Craft")


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:49:46 -0700
From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Ball lock leaks

In Digest 3998, Dave Holt said:

>While on ball locks, all that I own leak on the CO2 side with the tank
>attached.  I use quick disconnects.  I have tried replacing the outer
>o-rings, thicker ones, keg lube, none of these have worked.  The only thing
>left is replacing the poppets or go to a different type of connection.
>Anyone else had this problem and have suggestions?"

Dave, pardon an obvious question, but do they leak WITHOUT the tank
attached? If not, the leak is in your CO2 setup. Most likely suspect is the
hose connection at the QD.  Had this problem myself, lost 5 lbs of CO2 in
the cooler.  Tighten that flare connection!  You can also get flare seals.
Less likely is the hose itself, or the connection at the regulator.  Remote
possibility is the pop-off on the regulator itself.  Grab that 9/16 wrench
and cinch down that flare, dude!

Kent Fletcher
brewing in So Cal



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 01:51:38 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Looking for a favourite Marzen recipe

To any and all of the collective,
  With the addition of a temperature controlled fermentation chamber, my
brew partner and I are eager to do some lagering.  October is right
around the corner, so we will be making an Oktoberfest.  Because I am
certain all here are good people, I was hoping I could squeeze a
personal recipe out of a couple of y'all.  Something you brew and love,
a friends recipe that is tasty.  I have a generic Marzen recipe, but I
love the more complex beers and I know someone out there has got a
winner.  Thanks in advance, even for just thinking about sharing a
recipe.  It goes above and beyond T.C.O.D.  

Parker Dutro,
Portland, OR

"Excuse me doctor, but I think I know a little something about
medicine!"
 -Homer Simpson






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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:12:57 -0400
From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com>
Subject: AHA Club Only Competitions

What gives with the May competition?  One of our club members submitted his
entries and hasn't received feedback.  They haven't even cashed the check...
He has corresponded via Email, but no details have been given.  The AHA
should add guidelines associated with the turnaround of the results.  This
is getting out of control.  Anyone else experienced similar concerns?  How's
2-6 weeks for a guideline?

Mike Rogers
Cass River Homebrewers - Mid Michigan
www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers
mailto:mike01_rogers at yahoo.com




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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:41:08 -0400
From: "Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D" <lupolds at jhmi.edu>
Subject: Yield/Color Table


Does anyone know where I can get a table listing common grain
yield(pts)and color(L).  I know that Promash has an extended list, but I
need something that I can import/cut and paste into Excel.  I've got a
nice spreadsheet that's quick and easy to use and I need this data to
finish it.

Thanks for your help,

Shawn



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:19:25 -0500
From: "Dewalt, Scott" <Scott.Dewalt at st-systems.com>
Subject: Strong back, weak mind, loves lifting

Larry Bristol wrote:

"Eureka!  Here is the perfect solution to the problem!  Locate some
younger, less experienced, but enthusiastic brewers in your area. 
[Read: strong backs, weak minds.  Gosh, I hope my guys are not reading
this!]"

For those that don't know Larry, he's an awfully nice guy who has a great
brewing setup.  His brewery is an out-house (really!  It has
a toilet in it!). He also has a large beer dispensing frig.  It's not 
uncommon for Larry to have five types of oxidized homebrew on tap whilst
brewing another batch.

To take the thread through 180 degrees, I'd suggest those of you out there 
like me who are "less experienced, but enthusiastic brewers", find some-
one with more experience and drink their beer, err, learn from them.  I'll
admit to learning a great deal from the HBD and brewing in the shadow
of Larry.

Scott DeWalt
http://www.texanbrew.com/
AR=[mind's too weak to figure this out]



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:55:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at ironacres.com>
Subject: re: ball lock kegs

Dave Wrote:
"While on ball locks, all that I own leak on the CO2 side with the tank
attached.  I use quick disconnects.  I have tried replacing the outer
o-rings, thicker ones, keg lube, none of these have worked.  The only thing
left is replacing the poppets or go to a different type of connection.
Anyone else had this problem and have suggestions?"

What I've noticed is that once I pressurize the keg for the first time
after cleaning and filling, the gas poppet will leak a little, even with
30 pounds of pressure to seat everything. When that happens, I'll place a
small rag over the gas in post and use a small screwdriver to very quickly
push and release the poppet. The pressure in the tank will *snap* it into
place rather nicely. Sometimes that happens on the liquid side, but not
very often.


- --
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:54:32 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Ball lock Kegs, cleaning thereof

Kent Fletcher responded to Dave Holt WRT purchasing kegs;
>Dave,
>I have purchased 7 ball lock cornies from RCB over the
>last year or so.  They have all held pressure and not
>been really beat up looking, though you will have to
>remove those pesky, sticky, "Propery of Pepsi" type
>labels.
 ....snip....

A heat gun, or hair dryer on high will soften the glue holding the labels. 
After removing the plastic label, I use paint stripper to remove the glue, 
and scrub the entire SS Keg (outside only) with an SOS pad and rinse with 
hot water. Kegs come out clean and sparkley.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck




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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:52:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at ironacres.com>
Subject: I think the pump is dead, Jim

Sometimes you have to learn lessons the hard way, and I have most certainly
done that. I was using a ceiling fan motor speed control to control the speed
of my mag-drive pump even though I've read a million times here on the HBD
to never do that. Now I realize that some of you will still continue to use
speed controls on your pumps, but heed my lesson and controlleth thine pump
with valve!

Anyway, so it now seems that the pump motor will only turn with some assistance
to get it started, and only then while it's cold. I plan to purchase a new
pump for my brew stand, but how hard would it be to repair the one I have?
I would like to use it as a cleaning pump to push pbw and sanitizer around
my system and kegs? It's a Little Giant pump if that helps.

Thanks,
Ed

- --
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:04:49 -0500
From: "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
Subject: Plastic, Sanitation and Conservation

Two recent threads combined into one post - sanitizing plastic and
minimizing impact of sanitizer use. I don't recall the source for this
program, but it works well for me.

I use a plastic primary and bottling bucket, with a glass carboy secondary.
Some time ago, I made 7 gallons of iodophor solution in my primary, popped
on the cover and let it sit overnight. At the start of my brew day, I racked
the sanitizer to my carboy and capped it, saving the extra gallon or two in
plastic jugs for small sanitizing needs during the boil and ferment. When
primary was done, I racked the sanitizer from carboy to bottling bucket and
capped it. On bottling day, I racked the sanitizer from bottling bucket back
to clean primary bucket, topped off with a little more iodophor and water to
fill it, popped the lid on and put it away. Next brewing day (weeks or
months afterward) I racked the sanitizer back into the carboy, etc. 

I've now gone through several brewing cycles with the same solution and I am
very pleased with this program. Plenty of contact time for sanitizing the
fermenters, it also sanitizes my racking equipment (LOVE my Auto-Siphon!
NAYY...), and it takes very little time, water and iodophor. I should look
into the iodophor test strips to make sure that I'm in the right
concentration range when I top off my solution.

Sanitize, no-rinse, repeat!

Jim Steinbrunner
Midland, MI



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:25:24 +0000
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:  plastic vs glass debate

In HBD #xxxx, "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Got to join the fermenter debate.  In the early years of brewing, I used 
>plastic fermenters and bleach as a sanitizer.  Why, because that was how I 
>was taught.  In competitions, every judge commented that my beer had bleach 
>residue in the flavor profile.  I believe it was described as chlorophenol.

   Another data point-- I too brewed a lot of chlorophenolic beer
in my early days.  When I started filtering my water to remove
chlorine my beer improved greatly.  I still used plastic primaries
and bleach to sanitize, and have never had a judge get chlorophenols
from my beer since ~1995.  Plastic isn't a problem in my brewery.
   I *have* primaried in glass. Big pain in the nether regions
IMO what with cleaning, lugging, etc. If I had a spare engine block
I'd give it a try, but until my trusty '72 Gremlin (orange, with
Levi(TM) interior) dies I'll stick with plastic primary.

   Incidentally, I use one of those wider/squatter semi-translucent
(the librarians and grammaticians will have a field day with that
term) stiffer-plastic fermenters that seem to be made specifically
for brewing. Maybe they're better for brewing than those tall
all-but-opaque softer plastic buckets I see around a lot.
Joel Plutchak
Brewing in East-Central Illinois with one word: plastics



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:27:38 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pike's "Naughty Nellie"

Ed Evans <eevans at moscow.com> asks about Pike's "Naughty Nellie"

For additional details, check out

http://www.merchantduvin.com/pages/3_pike_brewing/ref_chart.html

It has malt and hop varieties, OG (1.048), bitterness (22), color 
(gold) and description.  While your guess of Vienna malt might make a 
good beer, looks like they use pale, Munich and Belgian aromatic.

There is a bit of a tradition in England of naming strong milds after 
women.  I suspect this was in emulation of the legendary Sarah Hughes 
Ruby Mild (even stronger at 1.058).  It could be the inspiration of 
this name.

Good luck in cloning this.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:45:23 -0400
From: "Terry L. Wilmoth" <tbear6 at fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Beer Road Trip

Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:49:19 -0500
From: "Bates, Floyd SEPCO" <floyd.bates at shell.com>
Subject: Beer Road Trip

On Wed, 24 Jul Floyd Bates wrote:

All:

I am planning a 7-10 day trip to test my body's limitations at alcohol
excretion.  I will be flying to Seattle and ultimately ending up in
Portland.  Can you help me plan my trip by providing me with a list of
breweries/brewpubs that I should visit as I head south?  I can do my own
homework if you can provide a brewery name and town.

Thanks in advance.

Floyd:
Two musts in Portland: 1) Bridgeport Brewing.  If you visit only one 
brewery in Portland, make it Bridgeport.  2) The Horse Brass Pub -
the local outlet for Full Sail Brewing (Full Sail is located in Hood River, OR 
in the Columbia River Gorge about an hour's drive east of Portland
well worth the drive, but if you can't, go to the Horse Brass, better
yet, do both)

Bridgeport is beer Nirvana, Full Sail is damn close IMHO.

Terry Wilmoth,  Burlington, KY
(lived in the Portland area once upon a time)





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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:56:50 -0400
From: "TED MAJOR" <tidmarsh at charter.net>
Subject: re: What's in your Fridge? Beer snacks

Jim asks about beer snacks--

My favorite these days is edamame--that's Japanese for soy 
beans (though I tend to tell my in-laws here in Alabama 
that they're Japanese boiled peanuts).  A couple of 
grocery stores here have them in the frozen section. Drop 
them in boiling water for a couple of minutes, cool under 
running water, and toss them with some coarse salt (I use 
Brittany sea salt when I'm feeling extravagant). 

The flavor is a bit like peanuts, and like peanuts, 
they're a shell & eat interactive snack.

Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Ala.


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:04:38 -0600
From: "John Gubbins" <n0vse at idcomm.com>
Subject: Dry Ice Contaminants

I would counsel against using dry ice to cool your wort.  Dry ice is not
pure CO2.  It has processing aids such as propylene glycol in it.  This is
used so the ice cakes together.   We use a lot of ice at work and the amount
of glycol is extremely variable.  Sometimes it is undetectable but other
times it is literally oozing with the stuff.

Before I had a CO2 system I'd put a bucket containing dry ice and water
above my bottling bucket or secondary fermenter so that the CO2 flowed into
the vessel creating an oxygen barrier.  This little trick works well and
none of the glycol gets into the beer.  The other thing you don't want to do
is try to cool bottles in dry ice.  They will violently explode.

John Gubbins
Littleton, Co



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:04:03 -0400
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Re: What's in your fridge (beer snacks)

Home made hummus.  My wife makes the kind with roasted garlic and the 
kind with roasted red peppers.  They go great with the beers there too.

Leopold Brothers Red Lager, Bell's Java Stout, Yellowstone Valley Brewing 
Company's Black Widow Stout, Goose Island Pils and IPA, and Dark Horse
Brewing Company's Belgian Amber Ale.  

In the serving freezer there are kegs of homebrew.  Big Brew Cream Ale, 
American IPA, English Barleywine #2 and a little home made ginger ale for
Boston coolers.

This week we will add two kegs of pilsner and a keg of dunkelweizen.  Finally
getting back to normal after the graduation party cleaned us out of homebrew.

Brewing pale ale on Monday.  Man, I love this hobby!!!!  

We make the beer with drink!!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, Michigan (2.8, 103.6) rennerian



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:26:22 -0400
From: "macher2" <macher2 at attbi.com>
Subject: How can I tell if my nose is working?

Hi everyone!

I am serious about this one, really...

Over the years I have concluded and accepted that my nose is sub standard. I
really enjoy the different tastes of beers around the world, but simply do
not get any anything out of a "swirl and sniff" before taking a sip.

I can smell things...the nose is not totally defective or anything like
that...maybe normal even...but I don't tend to use it to check things out,
like a new spice or different dish. My first tendency would be to take a
small taste, while I have noticed that others will be more likely to want to
take a sniff, when I tend to want to stick my finger in.

What am I trying to ask? I suppose the question is simply, is there
something I can do to somehow measure how bad my nose really is? I mean from
the brewing/beer evaluation perspective. It does work...perhaps I even
perceive smells sometimes that others do not...

Is there a nose calibration kit available?

I accept the fact that I am defective...just curious as to how much, and
which way I am leaning.

Bill Macher in Pgh, PA

Single tier, steam injected, reversable RIMS [ aka SiRevRIMS...]
Brewer of Willi "Crash Proof" ales
Developer of the "Super V" CF wort chiller
Soon to be proud owner of a real tractor...Kubota B2410 [I hope]
Former and future bicycle tourist
Shikoku Pilgrim...





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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:59:41 EDT
From: Svlnroozls at aol.com
Subject: RE: fermenting in an engine block


In a message dated 7/24/02 9:11:54 PM, Drew Avis' Inifinite number of monkeys 
with typewriters cam up with:

<< Winterpeg Brew Bomber and virtual Hozer Brian Lundeen reveals the secret to
his high-torque fermentations when he writes "I ferment my beer in an old
Chevy engine block."  Luxury!  I can only dream of fermenting in plastic,
glass, stainless, or an old Chevy engine block!  I have to ferment in an old
cardboard box I found out at the dump, although I managed to clean out most
of the mould and rat droppings. >>

You've got a box?!  Man, I wish I could go so high-tech.  I ferment in a 
pothole in the street.  Once I came to check the gravity on a batch (dry 
hopped with dog fur!) and CalTrans had paved it over (that happens so 
rarely).  The workers probably drank it first too.

C.T.
Pornopolis, CA (a.k.a. San Fernando Valley)


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:13:22 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: more plastic mythology

Chad Gould writes:

> Hmm... To me, the factor in replacement regardless of 
> cleaning techniques would have to involve how long you can 
> hold a liquid in plastic before the plastic starts taking on 
> characteristics of the liquid itself. 

I had heard for years, never use plastic for both beer and wine (I make
both). Well, my plastic has seen both of these liquids for years, and I do
not notice a transfer of characteristics. My beers taste and smell like
beer, my wines taste and smell like wine. The latter would probably be the
most likely place where cross-contamination would be most noticeable.
Plastic fermenters do pick up some aromas. I once made a ginger beer in a
plastic container, and we were never able to get the ginger smell out
completely. However, that ginger smell never appeared in the slightest in
other wines made in that container, either. Yes, these are more unverifiable
anecdotes, although one I believe shared by many brewers and winemakers. If
someone can post a reputable scientific study that demonstrates this
transfer of characteristics in plastic, I will happily sing a different
tune. Till then, I refuse to accept these assertions.

Dave Holt writes:
 
> In the early years of 
> brewing, I used 
> plastic fermenters and bleach as a sanitizer.  Why, because 
> that was how I 
> was taught.  In competitions, every judge commented that my 
> beer had bleach 
> residue in the flavor profile.  I believe it was described as 
> chlorophenol.  
> Rinsing with scalding water did not help and defeated the purpose of 
> sanitizing.  Add infection was enough for me to switch to glass and 
> iodophor.  Pouring out beer is a horrible thing.  For me, the 
> switch made a 
> notable difference.

I won't even get into a discussion of the unlikely scenario that your
plastic fermenter was imparting bleach residue into your beers even after a
scalding water rinse.

How is this a condemnation of plastic? You switch two variables, but pin the
improvement on only one? Try picking up a new plastic fermenter, a proper
food grade plastic bucket I might add, use your iodophor on it, and see if
you still feel that plastic is ruining your beers.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:29:17 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Ahem, Mssrs Scime and Avis!

John Scime, no doubt at the insistent bullying of Drew Avis, writes:

> As it happens, Drew
> Avis and I (both mebers of HOZERS - the 'Hull/Ottawa
> Zymurgic Enterprises and Research Society' 

> John Scime and Drew Avis
> HOZERS

Sorry to drag this forum into our internecine squabbling, but I believe
someone has jumped the gun a bit here. Last time I checked, we had still had
not taken a formal vote between Drew's suggested HOZERS, and my own, and
IMHO much more clever, The Members of Barleyment. By way of explanation to
those elsewhere, Ottawa is the seat of Canada's government, which is known
as Parliament, and those elected are called Members of Parliament, or MP's.

I've even suggested that the truly acronym-deprived can refer to the club as
The MOB, and call each other MOBsters. The name is inspired, and I can only
attribute their reticence in adopting it as another example of the powerful
Eastern Canada voting bloc sticking it to Western Canada yet again. 

Harrumph, time to become an American, I think. ;-)

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Stewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg, Manitoba, WESTERN Canada, where we spell
it color and pronounce it Zee!
 


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:29:35 -0400
From: walcin1 at comcast.net
Subject: A hearty thanks

Greetings,

    Many thanks to those of you who have responded to my "brewing without
lifting" question.  The brewing system and pumps sound like brewing nirvana.
Some responses highly recommend kegging, I am still a bottler.  If I do
manage to convince my wife that the big brewing system is what I "need" that
will put me into 10 gal territory and makes kegging a necessity.  Oh the
sacrifices that one must make for one's hobbies.  Thanks to: Brad Railsback,
Sandy Macmillan, Gerald Jowers, Alan McKay, Pete Calinski, Dave Houseman,
Will Fields, Don Price, c.d. pritchard, Larry Bristol, Drew Kraus, and
anyone I inadvertently missed.  Happy brewing.

Walt Crowder (not brewing now but hopefully SOON!)
Southern New Jersey



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:53:48 +0000
From: "chris eidson" <eidsonc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Lager/beer fridge

I have been offered an upright, not-frost-free deep freeze by a co-worker.  
Would this make a suitable lagering/beer fridge?  If so, what kind of 
modifications would I need to do?  Thanks in advance for all responses.

Chris Eidson
Birmingham, AL



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:55:53 GMT
From: Wil at maltydog.com
Subject: Cold vs. Warm commercial beer

Long time, No post.

Living and selling Beer and Home brewing supplies in the Holy City of
Charleston SC as I do, I get many many, tourist types of folks (read
yankees:) walking into my store and a completely dumb founded when
they find that all my beer is stored/sold cold. They ask "got any warm
beer" to this I reply "why do you want warm beer" They say "so I can
take it back north with me and if it gets warm it will go bad" To this
I offer many reason why this is not true but many of them walk out
thinking I'm out of my mind or flat out wrong.
Now, Before you guys think I'm out of my mind, I do understand that if
you leave Bud Light in a cooler, out in the 80 to 90 degree sunny day,
on a boat for 5 days, that it will taste worse then before.(not saying
much) however, and this is what I point out to my "warm beer
costumers" that stick around long enough to listen.
1) A-B of St. Louis, brews most, if not all of its beer cool and
lagers them for" X" amounts of weeks cold, then bottles or cans them
cold and ships them off to different areas to sit in warehouses
warm/hot. They are then sold to stores warm/hot and many of stores
place them in coolers to be sold cold. If I count right, that's 2
times of warm/ cold.  Would A-B do this if it caused beer to "go bad?"
2) Coors does the same when brewing its beers but takes it one step
further. They and only they deliver ALL Coors product cold to the
warehouse where they are stored cold and then the warehouse delivers
them cold to the retailer. In many places they are then placed on a
shelf, allowed to warm to room temp where that are sold to "warm beer
customers". That's 2 times warm/cold. Would Coors allow this if it
caused beer to "go bad?"
3) Of course Miller, Heineken and any brewer that brews a lager does
the same as A-B (2 warm / cold) but don't deliver or store it cold as
Coors does.
4) I ask my "warm beer costumer" if the have ever refused to drink a
beer or spit beer out because they "tasted" cold/warm/cold beer (NOT
skunked beer)  Only one ever said yes and admitted it was
budmillercoors that had sat in the sun for 3 days. (skunked?)

Note: When I say warm I'm talking A/C room temp, Not in the back seat
of a Volvo on a 90 degree day. This does not include kegged beer, Its
mostly delivered cold. (I say mostly d/t the fact I have one
distributor that can't seem to get kegged beer of any type cold to the
retailer)
I am NOT talking skunked beer.
So: What do you guys think?
Where did this get started and who started it. Perhaps Coors?
Have you ever refused retail beer because it was cold/warm/cold?
Am I nuts? I have, as they say, "drank enough beer to float a
battleship around" and it has gone from cold to warm to cold more than
a time or two and I have never had it "go bad"
Ideas?

Wil Kolb
The Beer Man
Plaza at East Cooper
607 B Johnnie Dodds Blvd
Mt. Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084

Wil at maltydog.com
www.maltydog.com
www.thebeermanstore.com
Wil at thebeermastore.com

God bless America!


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:56:45 +0300
From: "Haywood, K EW1 (CCG6 FIWC)" <haywoodk at ccg6.navy.mil>
Subject: re: propane


>>Would it be feasible to connect my outdoor burners
>>to the big propane tank, and if so, how?
>Tod,
>Now, "how" is a different matter. My large propane
>tank is pretty near my brew-deck, so I had hoped to
>find a pre-made solution for connecting it to my
>burners. I checked online, I checked local hardware
>and BBQ stores, I checked with local propane and
>propane accessory companies, and all I got was blank
>stares. I suppose that somebody with the proper
>experience could permanently plumb the line and
>fittings using copper and brass, but I really wanted
>something flexible that could be coiled up and put
>away after use - basically, something exactly like the
>hose that connects my little tank to my gas grill,
>just longer (maybe 10 - 12'). Either a replacement
>hose with regulator, or an extension hose. So far,
>I've come up empty.

Not sure if you have a hose and gasket (high pressure oil or air lines) shop
in your town but that is where I had some lines made for my brewing stand
that I have two burners on it and only one tank.  The local BBQ repair store
is where I was able to get the other connectors and valves first from and
then took them to the hose shop and they built the rest that would have the
right sized ends and length that I needed them to be.  That is where I would
look being that it sounds like you need some hose of some length for your
job.  Good luck with finding what you need.
	Kurt
	Norfolk 

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to Be Happy" 
Benjamin Franklin


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:01:45 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: More Pretzel stuff

I just made a batch of Jeff's pretzels, and boy were they good.  Everybody
had fun trying to roll them out and make a pretzel shape.  I used my bread
machine to make the dough, and it worked great.  Afterwords, I did a little
searching on the net for pretzels and lye, etc.. and found a great little
web site on, you guessed it, making German pretzels.  The recipe is a little
different, but close.  Great pictures on every step and also how to twist
the little devils.  Thanks Jeff for another way to pass the time.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian

Oh, yea, the link.

http://www.cs.du.edu/~dm/brezla/



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: NW road trip

Mr. Bates,  you're a wise man to understand that you
will, in fact,  push the limits of your 
body's metabolic, and extretory systems with a trip
such as you have planned.  I lived in Seattle for many
years, and now live in Vancouver, a Washington suburb
of Portland. You will find many differences between
the beers in these cities and I'm glad to see that
you're including both in your trip.  

Here's a good page to help you plan your trip
(http://www.nwbrewpage.com/brewpubs.html),  but  
I'll give some recomendations so that you don't waste
any precious liver cells while you're here.

Starting in Seattle,  you would do well to head first
for Ballard/Fremont area where some of the regions
heavyweights reside a short distance from one another.
 My absolute favorite is the Jolly Roger tasting room
for Maritime Pacific.  It's a small cheery setting
under the Ballard Bridge with great beer and food. 
The smoked onion rings and Nightwatch dark ale are a
hot couple.  Also in that neigborhood, the Redhook
Trolleyman pub on Fremont ave. attached to the old
brewery (the main Redhook brewery is in Woodinville),
very cool. If you can get the IPA on Nitro, get it! 
just a few blocks away is Hales,  you've gotta try the
cream ale.  It's...well...creamy with a fresh NW hop
character that makes you want to drink more, and
more...and more.  I've been known to drink gallons of
the stuff in my fantasies.
Elysian brewing on Capitol Hill is eclectic, Pike
Brewing at Pike Place Market has nice brews in 
a somewhat annoying atmosphere (for a local), Rock
Bottom is a cookie-cutter chain that you might want to
avoid, but you can't leave Seattle without having some
Halibut & Chips and a DPA at Pyramid. This is a
massive, impressive pub that serves a bewildering
variety of beers (which include the Thomas Kemper
line) and is right across 1st ave from the sports
stadiums, which can be pretty exciting during a home
game with all the sodo mojo coursing through the
city's veins. 

Another interesting spot with average beer is the Big
Time in the Universtity District.  I haven't been to
Mack & Jacks in Woodinville (I believe), but I enjoy
their amber...high in diacetyl if you're into that
sort of thing.  I've heard very good things about
Pacific Crest in Tukwila.  

If you can make it north to Bellingham,  which I would
highly recommend, there are 3 fantastic breweries in
the area, Boundary Bay (downtown Bellingham - good
beer and people watching, averag food), Orchard Street
(hard to find, worth every brain cell and calorie when
you do), and Skagit River (love this place in Mt.
Vernon) that will leave you wanting to come back and
retire.  

Now for the trip South of Seattle,  You must visit
Fish Brewing in Olympia.  I've never been to the
place, but I've heard good things about it and I love
their beer.

Once you're South of Olympia,  just keep on going
until you get to Vancouver (sorry Dick Danger). 
You'll be thirsty, and I'd recommend stopping at Hazel
Dell brewpub just off of I-5. That's my neigborhood
joint, but I'm not partial to it simply because of
that. The Red Zone and Captain Vancouver Stout will
satisfy, and the sandwhiches are awesome and
affordable.  Salmon Creek Brewing in Downtown
Vancouver is another nice spot with a fantastic Brown.

Now for Portland.  Just relax and remember that you
only have so many liver cells left. It seems as though
there is a brewery on every block,  and that isn't too
far from the truth in some parts of town. Start in NW
Portland.  You can't come to town without quaffing a
few at Bridgport.  The down-home pub is in NW Portland
on Marshall ave, while the upscale joint is on 
the East side on Hawthorne Street.  They do some great
stuff with casks and you can't go wrong with any of
them.  Portland Brewing, also 

in Northwest Portland in the industrial sector, has
great food and acceptable beer. The IPA is a 
classic.  The New Old Lompoc is a Rustic spot on 23rd
and Savier with affordable food and classicly overdone
but yummy Portland-style beers.  Rogue has an outpost
on 14th and Flanders that has marginal atmosphere but
at least you can try their insane variety of beers. 
The main Rogue brewery is in Newport on the coast and
is a wonderful outing, if even for the day.  

My favorite is the Alameda which is in NE Portland on
Fremont ave.  They do some wonderful Meads and make
some classic English pales.  The food is also very
good there.  The Tugboat in Portland's old town is a
riot and the co-owner (a She) will talk your ear off
and have you rolling.  A trip up the Columbia Gorge is
worthwile for the scenery and to sip brews at Full 
Sail in Hood River, and Walking Man in Stevenson, WA. 
Eugene has a good brewery called Wild Duck, and I
would highly recommend heading up to Mt. Hood Brewing
in Government Camp.  They have a beer called
Illuminatoin Spring Ale that takes best of show at the
Spring Beer fest here practically every year.  Bend
Oregon is a bit far, but Deschutes brewing is often
referred to as the standard by which all local
breweries are compared. Lets see,  I seem to missing
something.........uuuuuuhhh.....errrrr.  OH! silly me.
 There's this little brewing company around here
called McMenamins.  Although the number of breweries
in town might make you make go hmmmmmm...Mc what? 
This is where the similarities end.  Each McMenamins
brewpub has something unique about it which makes each
visit a different experience.  The beer is drinkable,
if a bit on the rough side, but that's not why we go. 
The Kennedy School on 33rd and Killingsworth in NE
Portland, for example,  is an old school that sports a
theatre/pub,  restaurant, whisky bar, cigar bar,garden
bar,in addition to reception rooms and hotel rooms. 
It's an entire evening.  My favorites are The Kennedy
School, The Greater Trump, The Edgefield (they have a
winery and distillery in this amazing complex), The
White Eagle, The Blue Moon, and the Mission Theatre
for 2 runs in a beatiful old theatre.  Theres' one
more West Coast chain that is fairly unassuming but
brews some great beers locally.  This is BJ's.  The
best one is in Jantzen Beach right off I-5 after you
cross the Columbia River into Portland.  The Whiskey
barrel stout is untouchable and the brewer, Dan
Pederson,  is a great guy and a lover of Belgian ales.
 

Ok,  now I'm thirsty.  That pretty much wiped me out. 


Enjoy your trip and please,  fill me in on your own
perceptions. And try not to take offense to the few
smug Northwesterners (bless their souls with ale or
lager) who think this is the only place in the U.S.
where good craft beer is brewed.

Kevin Crouch
Vancouver, WA



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:29:12 GMT
From: eevans at moscow.com
Subject: Scotmalt anyone?

My preferred HB shop switched (based on customer feedback) from Marris Otter
to Scotmalt[1].
What's the word on Scotmalt? Any experience?

Cheers,
 -Ed Evans

[1] http://www.scotmalt.com


- ---------------------------------------------
This message was sent by First Step Internet.
           http://www.fsr.net/




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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:13:13 -0700
From: Victor.E.Franklin at bankofamerica.com
Subject: Bad Malt Extract? - Sanitizer



I stopped receiving this back in '95.... It's good to be back on the mailing
list. :-)

Within the last two months I have brewed two separate extract wheat beers.
#1 I purchased the ingredients mail order and stored them in the
refrigerator until I used them. It looked dark for a wheat.
#2 I purchased locally here in Phoenix. I went extra easy and purchased
Alexanders in the can. After I opened the cans I noticed one of them looked
darker than the other.

 -Both batches have the same funny off taste to them. (my other batches have
come out fine)

Could the problem be that the malt extract was somehow old or bad?
If so, does the same problem happen with grains?  I have been contemplating
switching anyway, this would be a good excuse. Can grains be stored in
higher temperatures?

Another question:
Does sanitizer ever go bad?  I have some unfinished iodine, which is about
two years old. It is stored in the very hot garage. Could this be part of
the problem?

 -What kind of sanitizer requires no rinsing? Or is better than iodine and
bleach?

Public or private responses welcome

Victor Franklin
Victor.e.franklin at bankofamerica.com





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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: NW weather

Dave Burley writes

>On the positive side, I got back from a visit to
Victoria, BC and 
>Seattle, WA
>and I can definitely say that the myth of the cold
and rainy NW US is 
>pure BS...

Come back in November when, with the demise of tourist
season, we collapse the dome they used on in The
Truman Show.  

Kevin Crouch
Vancouver, WA




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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:16:58 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Oud Bruin Questions

Greetings,

I just bottled a batch of Oud Bruin made in March.

I innoculated it with Pedicoccus in April in the secondary.  I would like
to use these carboys again for regular beers. What is the risk after
cleaning with PBW, One Step, and Iodine and then letting them sit in the
sun for a few days of not killing the Pedicoccus?  I plan on keeping the
plastic items (hoses, ect.......) separate and only using them for future
soured beers.

Also how long would you let these beers sit before tasting? I split the
batch in half and added cherries to half. The plain batch tastes great now.
The half with cherries needs more time.

 How would you enter the Cherry Oud Bruin in contests?  Fruit Beer?   Oud
Bruins are made with cherries by some commercial brewers, so it could also
be entered as an Oud Bruin?

Regards,

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC




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