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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: light extract to get dark beer (dw)
  2nd Annual Dallas-Denver Beer Run Trip Report (John Mellby)
  Bottling, Color Perception, etc. (Enders)
  Tartan (boubez)
  Man-eating elephants (Mike Fertsch)
  Input requested (CRF)
  Primary Fermentation (John DeCarlo)
  Re: blow-off method (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: blow-off method (Paul Brownlow)
  liquid yeast (Bill Crick)
  Double Diamond (Brian Glendenning)


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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 18 Apr 90 08:43:29 EDT (Wednesday)
From: dw <Wegeng.Henr at Xerox.COM>
Subject: Re: light extract to get dark beer

Paul L. Kelly asks:
>Another question regarding bulk extracts:  someone recently said that one
can
>achieve better quality on dark beers by using light extract, and darkening
the
>wort with specialty grains.  What grains (and in what amounts) should I
use
>to duplicate, say, John Bull unhopped dark with light extract?

Recall that all-grain brewers start with malted barley, and then add
speciality grains and other stuff to achieve the beer characteristics that
they desire.  As an extract brewer you can duplicate this to some degree by
adapting all-grain recipes.  For example, if you want to make a stout start
with a all-grain recipe for stout (that you trust), then subsitute light
malt extract syrup for an equal amount of malted barley.  The amounts of
speciality grains should remain the same.  Now brew as if you had started
out with an extract recipe (from The Complete Joy of Homebrewing, for
example).

You'll probably have to experiment on a few batches (varying the amount of
extract syrup to subsitute for one pound of malted barley) before you get
optimum results.  You'll never achieve as good results as you would by
mashing, but you'll definitely learn more about the characteristics of the
ingredients that you use, which will help you formulate your own recipes.

/Don

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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 08:34:33 CDT
From: jmellby at ngstl1.csc.ti.com (John Mellby)
Subject: 2nd Annual Dallas-Denver Beer Run Trip Report


	The Great 2nd Annual Colorado Beer Run
	                Starring
	        Roy Mengot and Tim McGrath
	
	               Directed by
	             John R. Mellby
	
	             Special Effects
	               Roy Mengot

	                 Scribe
	             John R. Mellby

	            Color Commentary
	       Roy Mengot and Tim McGrath

	         Historical Inspiration
	               Tom Greer

  The winter being over, our thoughts naturally turned to beer.  (O.K. beer was
the second thing our thoughts turned to.)  The remains of the 1st Dallas
to Colorado Beer Run had long since been consumed, so it was obviously
time for a another trip to the nearest very good beer store.

  Now there are some good beer stores in the Dallas area (Mr. G's in Plano),
but Texas' stupid laws are so restrictive that many beers cannot be
distributed here.  Thus we typically take advantage of any trip to
bring back quality beers which cannot be found in Texas.

Preparation:

  Special thanks go out to Cher Feinstein, Rob Gardner, and Rick Myers
who responded promptly to queries about where to go for beer in
Colorado Springs, Denver, and Boulder.  With their help the decision
was made to go to Denver, with a list of good stores, and Old Chicago
and the Wynkoop as good bars.

  Last year the trip was made cross-country through Amarillo, on mostly
2-4 lane highways.  This year they attempted to go due North into Kansas
then turn West, which would keep them on freeways.  As it turned out,
this route was almost 100 miles longer, and yet was 1-1.5 hours shorter!

  Roy (What, me plan?) Mengot executed his usual planning function, which
consists of sitting with a beer in hand and saying "Let's do it!"


Trip Report:
  Driving - When one begins such an epic journey, a goal must drive the 
travelers to endure the hardships of the trip. In our case, that goal was good 
beer and lots of it. There were indeed hardships. Kansas for instance. Eastern 
Colordo for another. Oklahoma is Nirvanna in comparison. We often commented as 
we looked out on great vistas of near flat nothing that at least some plowed 
land or a telephone pole gave some indication that someone was in the area,
and then we speculated on why. Even for a holiday weekend (Easter) we set the 
cruise control for 70 and, between Denver and Dallas, only "broke" cruise 5 
times. Put a couple TOW's, a SAM launcher and a machinegun on top of all 
the grain elevators in Kansas, and no force on Earth could take that place. 

  Now when we rolled into Denver, the world improved a million percent. We 
plotted the locations of beer stores and the Wyncoop Brewing company and 
strategically selected a Motel (Motel 6). The first stop was an Old Chicago (3 
of 'em in Denver) where we found 25 tap beers and about 100 bottle beers. I 
sampled some draft Sam Adams, Boulder Porter and Watney's Cream Stout. All were
excellent and they have great deep dish pizza, pasta and calzones. Well worth
a visit.

  The next morning we hit the Wine Company. It's a deceptively small store in a
large shopping center but had a large selection of the kinds of beers we were 
looking for. They just didn't have very much of each type. As I recorded the 
beer name and price of what Tim pulled off the shelves, the manager happened
in and saw us building a small wall of beer and asked his clerk if we were 
Federal Agents or something? No, breath easy.

  Next we went to Bonnie Brae, just North of I-25 on University. They have an 
equally large selection with generally greater quantities (until we got there).
The two stores complemented each other well and we cleaned them both out of 
several brands such as Thomas Hardy and Samiclaus and others they were just low
on. Bonnie Brae has shopping carts which helped and prices were reasonable.

  By now we had some 15 cases in my little Sunbird Stationwagon and
"Little Car"  was not pleased. The altitude robbed power and the rear shocks
had little play left.  Undaunted, we went to the Wyncoop brew pub. We stopped
there briefly the night before (Friday at 6:30 pm) and found it to be Yuppie
Happy Hour Heaven, stuffed to the rafters with young professionals in 
suspenders and nice dresses, eyeing each other and two deep at the bar,
raising the noise level to that of a carrier flight deck. Saturday at 11am,
we had half of the 100 feet of bar to ourselves and got a sampler of
Wilderness Wheat, Jed Fest beer, their IPA, St. Charles ESB, Marks Mild
and Sagebrush Stout. All were excellent and, in general, better than some of
the California brew pub beer I've tried. They do not have C02 driven taps; 
they have have the English pull-pump handles! The difference in the freshness
of the beer and the carbonation behavior were astounding and the closest
thing to English Real Ale in this country. They sell the beer in gallon
boxes for takeout but plan on drinking it fast. It loses a bit as it travels.
We picked up 3 gallons to go. They're right across the street from Union
Station in Denver and are soon opening a jazz pub in the basement area.
They have a dinner area upstairs. This place is good!

Beer Summary:
  351 bottles of beer plus 3 gallons of Wynkoop ale, some $600 worth.
  51 different kinds were brought back (43 of them are not
  distributed in Texas). 
        6       Aegean
        12      Anchor Christmas Ale
        12      Ballard Bitter
        6       Berghof Lager
        12      Berghof Bock
        2       Berghof Dark
        12      Boulder Pale Ale
        14      Boulder Porter
        2       Boulder Stout
        4       Big Foot Ale (Sierra Nevada)
        6       Castlemaine
        12      Celebrator
        6       Changlee
        6       Cold SPrings Export
        6       EKU Kulminator
        4       Fischer Bitter
        3       Fischer Amber
        2       Franziskus
        9       Garten Brau Bock
        1       Genesee 12 Horse Ale
        3       Goudenband
        4       Ivanhoe Ale (Saxon Brewery, Chico)
        6       John Bull
        1       Julius Echter Hefe-Weissen
        6       Kessler Bock
        12      Kessler Lorelei
        5       Kessler Winter
        7       Liefmanns Kriek
        4       Liefmanns Framboise
        4       Liefmanns Peche
        6       Liefmanns Gueze Lambic
        4       Mackeson's Stout
        12      Maes Pils
        1       Maharaja
        1       Paulnaer Munchener #1
        4       Pete's Gold Coast Lager
        6       Pete's Pacific Lager
        6       Pete's Pacific Dry
        12      Pete's Wicked Ale
        6       Ranier Ale
        12      Red Hook ESB
        38      Samuel Adams Lager
        12      Samuel Adams Dopplebock
        4       Samiclaus Light
        4       Samiclaus Dark
        4       Saranac 1888
        10      St. Stan's Alt
        3       St. Sixtus Abbey Ale
        6       Telluride
        16      Thomas hardy Ale
        6       Ze'le'




 


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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 09:15:01 -0500
From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Bottling, Color Perception, etc.

     Well, I bottled my IPA last night (actually I started filling bottles at
about 12:30 AM :-).  The final gravity was 1.008 (O.G. 1.043) and the color
is a good bit lighter than I thought it would be.  I think it's difficult to
judge the color in the fermenter, as it looked way too dark, even when I
siphoned it into the priming bucket.  However, the sample in the hydrometer
jar looked about on target, and when I poured the sample into a glass to
taste, it looked BEAUTIFUL (rich golden color tinged with copper)!!!

     So, I was a little hasty judging the color of this batch.  However,
since most of the previous batches were porters and stouts, I guess I had no
frame of reference for pale ales (in the fermenter, anyway).  

 
     This batch is probably the best I have made to date, and since it was my
first journey into all-grain brewing, it came out better than I might have 
anticipated in the beginning.  For those who have followed my all-grain epic,
here's the recipe (please try this one at home :-)

    All Grain India Pale Ale
     (proportions for 2 US gal.)
     
2.4 # Pale Ale Malt
5 oz. Crystal Malt (80L)
5.5 AAU Flavoring hops        (1 oz. of 5.5% alpha Willamette)
0.5 oz Finishing hops         (5.5% alpha Willamette)

Procedure:

Mash in:     132 deg. F      (140F strike heat)
Mash pH:     5.3 approx.  (adjust as necessary with gypsum or carbonate)

     Boost temp. to 150 deg. F

Mash time:   2 Hrs.
Mash temp.:  146-152 deg F
Mash out:    5 mins  at  168 deg. F
Sparge:      2.0 gal H2O  at  165 deg. F
Boil time:   90 mins
     Hop Schedule: 1 addition, 60 mins from end of boil
                   Finishing hops added 5 mins before end of boil

Yeast:       Wyeast #1028 London Ale
O.G.         1.043
     Fermentation temp:  70 deg. F, 6 days in primary, 4 days in secondary
F.G.         1.008

     If you haven't tried mashing yet, you really should.  You CAN start small
and grow as equipment and funds permit.  Also, by starting small, you don't 
have a large sum invested in equipment if you decide mashing isn't for you.
Anyone with questions can drop me an e-mail, and I'll be happy to try and 
answer them.

Todd Enders                             ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                         UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University                  Bitnet: enders at plains
Minot, ND 58701

PS: I neglected to mention that I used 5 qts of water for the mash, and I
also discovered that I neglected to add the finishing hops to this batch, so
there isn't a lot of hop aroma :^)  Oh well, next time!!


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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 11:13:42 EDT
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Tartan



Dale Veeneman writes:
>    I was in Glasgow a year ago and fell in love with an ale that
>was referred to as "heavy" (always on tap - one brand I remember
>was Tartan).  Does anyone have a recipe for this type of ale?

I've been meaning to ask this for a little while now. I'm in love
with Tartan too, and I can't find it here. In Montreal, I used to
always go this pub that had it, but it wasn't on sale in liquor
stores. Now that I'm in New Jersey, I can't find it in pubs either.
Could anyone please let me know if and where I can find it?
Also, I would be more than ecstatic if anyone has a recipe for
it! Thanks in advance.

toufic


Toufic Boubez
boubez at caip.rutgers.edu
- --I'll have a new .signature as soon as I think of one.


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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 11:14 EDT
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Man-eating elephants

Arun Welch describes the appetite for elephants in parts of India:

> Apparently there are a lot of elephants in the area who like the beer
> even more than the humans...

Man-eating elephants?  It it a good thing they enjoy drinking beer more 
than they enjoy eating humans!

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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 15:03 EST
From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: Input requested

Hi, All!

I'm about ready to try a framboise, and want to offer up my proposed recipe 
for general comment first.  Initially, I plan on a one gallon test batch.  I 
plan on using frozen raspberries which I intend to first puree (for better 
fermentation of the fruit) and strain before addition.  So, if I were making 5
gallons, I was thinking of:

6-7 # light malt extract
1/4 # crystal malt, cracked, steeped, and strained before boiling
2 1/2 cups raspberry puree (primary fermentation)
1 oz boiling hops (Hallertauer, Saaz, Tettnanger)

10 cups raspberry puree (secondary fermentation)


For the one gallon test batch:

1 1/4 # light malt extract
Couple of tablespoons crystal malt (used as above)
1/2 cup raspberry puree (primary)
~1/5 oz hops (guesstimate)

2 cups raspberry puree (secondary)


Please note that I would especially appreciate tips on handling the addition 
of puree to the secondary.  Right now, I'm figuring that I'll sterilize 
anything I use to add the puree, while taking my chances with the puree itself 
(rather than heating it up, and risking setting the pectins).

Thanks!!


                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"The first cup of coffee recapitulates phylogeny."  --  Anon.
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL

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Date: Wednesday, 18 Apr 1990 15:59:32 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Primary Fermentation

>From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (RUSSG)
>Subject:  blow-off method
>
>I've been brewing using the open ferment (garbage can) method, with good
>results, but I'd like to try a closed ferment (is this the same as the
>blow-off?). Papazian says to pitch the yeast in the carbuoy, and then seal
>it with a water seal, but then where does the blow-off take place? If you
>did'nt seal it but put a blow-off tube instead, when *do* you seal it? Does
>the blow-off tube need a water seal (like the end of it underwater in a
>blow-off jar) too? You see I have a few questions; any help would be
>appreciated.
>                                                 Russ Gelinas

A closed ferment merely means that you keep a cover on the container
you ferment in, and the resulting fermentation by-products leave the
container by a usually-one-way method.

I used to ferment in an open 7 gallon plastic bucket.  It had a lid,
but I didn't use it.

The next easiest step in my case was to drill a hole in the lid, insert
a rubber stopper and an air lock, and seal the fermenter.  This keeps
airborne bacteria away from your fermenting beer, yet lets the
CO2 leave the container so that it doesn't blow up.

The "blow-off" method is to have a large tube coming out of your
fermenter into a bucket of water (so air doesn't go *into* the
fermenter).  You fill the container up full (using a 5 gallon container
for a 5 gallon batch) and all the CO2 and scum and hops and such get
blown out of the fermenter.  It is more dangerous if something clogs,
but can get rid of bitter tastes that would otherwise hang around
in your beer.

I prefer a large primary fermenter and a 5 gallon secondary, each
with airlocks.

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 14:19:29 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: blow-off method

As one of the strongest supporters of the blow-off method
on this digest distribution list, I feel a responsibility
to answer Russ' questions.  I recommend you use the largest
diameter tubing you can figure out a way to attach to the top
of the carboy.  I have heard of numerous brewers using a
tubing close to 2" in diameter, shoved directly into the top
of the carboy.  I bought a piece of 3/4" O.D. hard plastic
tubing and cut myself a 3" long piece.  This (with great
difficulty) I stuffed into the hole in a rubber stopper that
fit the top of the carboy.  I had to ream out the hole in the
stopper a little also.  Next, I pushed on a 5/8" I.D. flexible
clear hose (about 3-4 ft. long) onto the hard plastic tubing
sticking out of the stopper.  To use this apparatus, I pour
about 16oz of water into a gallon glass jug, push the stopper
onto the top of the carboy, and submerge the other end of the
hose in the water in the jug.  I usually get about 1/2 gallon
or so of blow-off.  I don't even bother to switch to a standard
airlock until I transfer to the secondary.  As an optional
suggestion (something which I may soon implement myself), is
to use a 6 gallon primary, so I have 5 gallons in my secondary.
The I.D. of the 6 gallon carboy mouth may be bigger, so you
may want to check this before you buy your stopper.  Oh, by the
way, I forgot to mention that I fill the primary to within 2"
of the top (topping off with boiled chilled tap water) to get
maximum blowoff.  It is important to keep the hose clean as
the resins and hop particles are impossible to clean out of
the hose when they soak in and dry up.

I highly recommend this method and I feel that my beer tastes
much better since I switched to this method.

Al.


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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 16:00:43 PDT
From: paul at susitna.dataio.data-io.com (Paul Brownlow)
Subject: Re: blow-off method

Russ Gelinas <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wants to use closed
fermentation, and asks:

>Papazian says to pitch the yeast in the carbuoy, and then seal
>it with a water seal, but then where does the blow-off take place? If you
>did'nt seal it but put a blow-off tube instead, when *do* you seal it? Does
>the blow-off tube need a water seal (like the end of it underwater in a
>blow-off jar) too?

I use closed fermentation.  After I pitch the yeast in the carboy, I place
a blowoff tube of 1-1/4" inside diameter (I think) in the carboy; the outside
diameter is large enough (1-3/8", I think) to make a tight seal in the throat
of the carboy.  The other end of the 3-foot blowoff tube is submerged in a
12-quart stock pot which has about a gallon of water in it.  The large
diameter tube reduces the likelihood that clogging will occur, and the deep
pot insures that it won't flood if I get a large amount of blow-off (usually
one to three quarts).  The "free" end of the blowoff tube must be submerged
to create a seal; this minimizes the risk of wort/beer contamination and makes
the system a closed fermentation system.

The blowoff tube can be replaced with a fermentation lock when the major
activity subsides and no more krausen is being projected through the blowoff
tube.  This usually occurs in 3 to 4 days.
- --
Paul Brownlow				|	"What a waste it is to lose
Data I/O Corp.   Redmond, WA		|	  one's mind -- or not have
..!uw-beaver!uw-entropy!dataio!paul	|	  a mind.  How true it is."
paul at data-io.com			|		-- Dan Quayle

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Date: 	Wed, 18 Apr 1990 16:59:10 -0400
From: bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick at uunet.UU.NET (Bill Crick)
Subject: liquid yeast

Some comments on the comments on my liquid yeast 
question.

As far as temperature shock, I was careful about this. I moved it 
from fridge to beer room to basement to kitchen to top of saucer
covering cooling starter, leaving it 15-20 minutes in each location.

Why so little malt in the starter? This was to promote yeast division
rather than alcohol production. I don't remember the threshold, but
if the suger content is above a few percent, the yeast tend to produce alcohol
rather that reproduce??? 

I have come to the conclusion, that the stsrter which was just below 100F
was just too hot.

I did notice though that when I opened the pouch, there was a distinct 
alcohol smell which suprised me. Evidently, they put a fair amount of 
suger in the solution in the pouch?

Brewius Ergo Sum!
Bill Crick


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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 22:01:21 EDT
From: Brian Glendenning <brian at radio.astro.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Double Diamond


I would like to try making a beer like "Double Diamond" (a very smooth
bitter). Does anyone have a recipe? There is one in Line's "Brewing
Beer's Like Those You Buy", but the recipe looks a bit odd. Besides
the normal things it calls for 1# of Barley syrup, and 5 Saccharin
tablets.

Can anyone tell me:
	a) is Line's recipe, as written, any good, or
	b) what I should substitute the syrup and saccharin with, or
	c) are there any other good double diamond (like) recipes.

Thanks!

Brian
- --
	 Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto
brian at radio.astro.utoronto.ca  utai!radio.astro!brian  glendenn at utorphys.bitnet

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #402, 04/19/90
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