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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: Re: Beer Engine Setup/more ("Steve Alexander")
  Danstar Yeast ("H. Dowda")
  FG too high ("Andrew Moore")
  Extract Attenuation ("Dan Listermann")


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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 05:21:06 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Re: Beer Engine Setup/more

Junk writes ...

>The points of "real ale" (besides the recipe) as I understand them
>are:
>     * low carbonation,
>     * higher serving temperatures
>     * conditioning in the serving container
>     * unpressurized serving container, pulling air in to fill the vacuum
>     * ((anything else?))

How about infection.  In a 1954 study of cask beers in London and
a followup 1980 study demonstrated very high occurrence of infection
and reported at some times very high return rates of spoiled cask beer.
Perhaps not a severe problem if you'll finish the cask in a day or two.

>In addition, most authors I've read seem to think the air (oxygen?)
>may help produce the desired taste.[...]

Entirely possible.

>If so, then using nitrogen instead of air isn't going
>to get the desired results.  Also, it isn't going to be possible to keep
>it around for a long period due to the eventual excessive oxidation.

Inert gas is a good idea since it prevents those many organisms that
require oxygen, but nitrogen isn't a very good choice for long term
beer contact in bottle or cask.  According to Jeff Renner's
student ;^)  Morton Meilgaard, beers kept in surface contact with
nitrogen gas for a week  "lacked hop aroma and [] the bitterness
was hard and broad".  He pretty much poo-poos the idea of 
shankbeer mixes (80% nitrogen) as destroying beer flavor.  Air
would be questionable too for the same reasons.

==
MM has a lot of interesting things to say in his JIB2001 article.

Despite the BYO magazine results, Dr.Meilgaard reports (as
has virtually every other study) that fermenting  under pressure 
causes a dramatic decrease in ester levels and this result has
been produced with lager and ale yeasts.  I can cite the detailed
methods for lager/pressure fermentation if anyone is interested.

He reports there is little evidence that HSA avoidance improves
flavor in large production volume tests (>20kL), but that
all evidence for HSA avoidance for flavor improvement (both
immediate flavor and flavor stability) have appeared in "lab scale"
tests.  MM reports that there is no advantage for large breweries
in taking "aggressive air avoidance measures", but does suggest
that small (<20kL) breweries use such aggressive  measures
as are cost effective.  Interesting point made that low O2 mashes
produced faster runoff and higher extraction(+5%) !

MM, in discussing low energy boilers, notes  that beers
produced with greater boil evaporation rates (12% vs 6%)
produced fresher tasting beers. A comparable result (6%
evap preferred to 3%) for pressurized boils.

 fwiw,
 -S




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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 06:20:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Danstar Yeast

Recently had an opportunity to use one of these. 
Noted the one I used (Manchester) was now made in
Denmark rather than Canada.  One assumes the yeast
strain is the same.  Is it?

Harold

In the final mad rush for the 
4th Annual Palmetto State Brewers' Open
September 28. Cash Beer BOS, 7th and higher entry from
the same brewer is free, the Just Good Beer Brewoff, a
separate Mead/Cider BOS and no category
compaction.....
http://www.sagecat.com/psb/psbo4.htm



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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:26:44 -0400
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk at hotmail.com>
Subject: FG too high

Adam wrote:

My question is why isn't the FG lower?

Adam:

One thing that I learned through experimenting with different recipes is 
that many specialty grains add gravity to the wort without contributing any 
fermentable material. So, if you used a significant amount of crystal malt, 
for example, you might see a higher than expected final gravity. 1.020 is a 
bit higher than normal, but not out of the realm of possibility.

If I were you, I would try to rouse the yeast a bit by agitating the 
fermenter, wait a week and then bottle.

Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia




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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:02:40 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Extract Attenuation

<Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:44:26 -0600
<From: "Adam Wead" <a_wead at hotmail.com>
<Subject: Topic Discussion: Malt Extracts and Gravity

<Does using extracts yield fewer fermentable sugars than mashing?

The fermentability of various brands of extract is widely variable.  Some
like Laaglander and Superbrau are widely known for low attenuation.  I have
found that United Canadian Maltings extracts are highly fermentable.   I
know that Superbrau and probably Laaglander are meant to be used with sugars
to achieve better attenuation.

One of the advantages of all grain brewing is the ability to at least aim
the attenuation level by the mash temperature and time.

Trying to control attenuation with yeast is probably not very practical.
Choose your yeast for its flavor characteristics and control attenuation
with material and process selection.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com






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