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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Extract success (Alan McKay)
  Super Yeast (question) (darrell.leavitt)
  Re:  Michelob Ultra (Nutty Gambler)
  RE: conical building, Thanks ("Joe ,just-Joe")
  RE: stealing trade secrets from the bottom of a bottle? ("Houseman, David L")
  STORE FOR SALE (Bill Sadvary)
  All Grain Setup - Building a Stand (Charles)
  Water and Mashing ("MSC SUPPORT")
  UV Filtering for Fluorescent Lighting (Martin_Brungard)
  Cider (beerbuddy)
  Oxygen regulator ("Michael Hackney")
   ("Gene Collins")
  conical fermenters (again) (Rama Roberts)
  Brewing with just the basics.... a simple brewer in a tough spot. ("Adam Austin")


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Date: Wed,  2 Oct 2002 07:08:00 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: Extract success

Adam Wead is using enzymes with extract beers, and asks :

> Anyone else used this technique before?

I haven't but it is sound.  Some folks put the enzymes into the
fermenter instead but I can tell you from experience that this
is a very, very bad idea because the enzymes are like the 
energizer bunny and just going, and going, and going, and
before you know it you have bottle bombs.

> I was thinking of modifying it a little.  I'd like to get 
> away from having  to add extra amylase.  
> Would there be enough enzymes just from the specialty 
> grains?  

Which grains are you using?  Most specialty grains have no
enzymes at all.  Since you are already doing the steps for
it, you should consider doing small partial mashes with
2Row or 6Row malted barley.

Check out a minimash as well :
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20020502190617228
and my chart on which grains have enzymes :
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20020413075449231

> similar to a single infusion mash, but without sparging....
> you would just 
> lift the grain bag out and rinse it with hot water.

Sure, why not?  Your efficiency would not be great but big deal.
Sounds like you are well on your way to making some fine beers!

cheers,
 -Alan


- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)


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Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:02:37 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Super Yeast (question)


I recently ran across "Liquor Quick" Super Yeast.  I know that it is for liquors
but wonder if it leaves behind any flavors that would mitigate against it being 
used to finish off a barleywine, or other strong ales...?  Anyone use this for 
this purpose...or is it better to just use Champagne yeast for higher than 
wished for final gravities?

 ..Darrell



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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 05:35:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nutty Gambler <nuttygambler at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  Michelob Ultra

Stopped in at my favorite pub and noticed the crew
were all wearing Michelob Ultra Tshirts, and a little
ad on the table was comparing its 2.6gm carbs 95
calories to others.   

I was drinking a Becks but talked them into giving me
a cracker and a taste.    Now I do try to stay on a
low carb diet (with beer being my exception), and
pretty much drink Miller Lite with a lime now and then
when I want to really stay on the low carb kick.  

My take on this Mic stuff.   WAY OVER CARBONATED,
reminded me of Zima.   Must be to try to give it some
mouth feel.    Miller Lite 3.2  this 2.6...    AB you
missed it, I'll stick with Lite.  

*****************

So I read the description of Michelob Ultra. 
Lessee...fewer 
carbs...diluted...more alcohol...less flavor...it all
sounded kinda 
familiar.  Then Bob Hewitt put it all together for me

"...AB is doing a 4-hour mash..."

Wouldn't this product exaclty resemble Michelob DRY
and all those 
godforsaken dry beers of the early 90s?  Same
thing...more 
alcohol...more fully fermented...less flavor.  Why ask
why? Elementary, 
my dear HBD.

Folks...in the end, at their level it's all about
marketing.




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Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:40:51 -0500
From: "Joe ,just-Joe" <pester_joe at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: conical building, Thanks

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted their experiences on 
conical fermenter design.  It was a big help.

Joe Gibbens
Hopedale IL.





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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:26:05 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: stealing trade secrets from the bottom of a bottle?

Brad asks about sources of yeast and the desire to pitch a larger starter.
These are really two somewhat related and unrelated items.  Danstar is good
yeast.  You can also create a much larger starter with it by growing it up
as you would any yeast, from a commercial bottle, a pack of Wyeast or from a
package of dry yeast.  Creating a sufficiently large starter is good
practice whatever the source of the yeast.  Make a Bitter and use the entire
yeast cake as a starter for a bigger beer such as a barleywine for example.


Dave




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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:35:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Sadvary <sadvary at dickinson.edu>
Subject: STORE FOR SALE


HOMEBREW RETAIL STORE FOR SALE

The Brew Company of Carlisle, a homebrewing retail store for beer and wine
enthusiasts, is looking for someone to purchase the business at 152 South
Hanover Street in historic downtown of Carlisle, PA.  The business has
operated from the downtown location for the past six years and is owned by
four partners,  Kevin Spicer, Steve Lockhart, Blanda Nace, and Bill
Sadvary.  Says Spicer, "We really don't want to sell the business, but all
of us have reached a point in our lives where we can no longer effectively
run it.  We're hoping for a buyer who would maintain the business at its
present location in order to best serve our loyal customers." A
fully-stocked store, established customer base, and many extras are
included in the sale.  Of course, the business itself can be relocated
since the present retail space is leased.  Interested buyers should
contact The Brew Company of Carlisle at 717-241-2734 or via the website
www.brewcompany.com.  Business hours are T-W-Th from 5-8PM and Sat from
8AM-1PM.





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Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:24:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles at thestewarts.com
Subject: All Grain Setup - Building a Stand

Joe asks about building a no-weld stand for his all
grain setup.

I know I've posted this before, but I absolutely LOVE
the wheeled baker's rack I picked up from Costco for
about $70.
(1) It's inexpensive.  Less, in fact, that the angle
iron I was pricing at Home Despot.
(2) It's easy - Took about 20 minutes to assemble.  And
I can dis-assemble it in a few minutes if I need to
(such as when I move).
(3) It is lightweight and has wheels.  I could probably
roll my whole setup into the back of a pickup.  Or I
can roll it outside in good weather.
(4) It's pretty.  All nice and chrome.  And NSF rated
for restaurant duty.
(5) It's convenient.  I have my misc. brew stuff stowed
in plastic bins that I keep on the shelves.  I have
(almost) all my stuff on the rack which is tucked into
a corner, thus keeping SWMBO happy.
(6) It's flexible.  I can re-arrange the height of
shelves, etc. as needed.  I could even attach a second
unit if I wanted to (maybe when I have a garage to brew
in . . . .).
(7) And it really works well - the structure makes it
easy to run wires and tubing, and get to them easily.

If you want to see pics (okay, they're a little old. 
My setup has grown a little since these), they can be
found on my web site - http://Charles.TheStewarts.com. 
Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions about
it.

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Support anti-Spam legislation.
Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/


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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:00:05 -0400
From: "MSC SUPPORT" <support at micromationsciences.com>
Subject: Water and Mashing

I recently moved from city water (Cherry Hill) to well water in Shamong, NJ.
While mashing with Cherry Hill water, I never gave to much thought to the
water or the pH, considering the water tasted good and my extraction
rates were very good.  In Shamong, I know I have hard water that changes
greatly once it goes through my ion/exchange water softener.  In regards to
mashing, as it relates to extraction efficiency, (keeping all else equal) is
my
best bet to perform a pH test on the water and adjust if needed.  If so, are
pH
strips accurate enough to obtain these results and what additives and how
much of it do I add to the water to compensate to put the pH in the correct
range.

Hack



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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:01:43 -0400
From: Martin_Brungard at URSCorp.com
Subject: UV Filtering for Fluorescent Lighting

I'm in the process of constructing a new workshop that will include
fluorescent lighting fixtures in the ceiling.  I'm concerned about UV
emissions from that lighting increasing the opportunity to skunk my beers.
The beer would normally be out of the light, but there are processes that
will be temporarily exposed.

I would have researched the HBD archives on the subject, but the search
engine doesn't seem to work anymore.  I did do a quick look using Google.
Interestingly, the museum types are very interested in UV emissions from
lighting fixtures.   They mentioned the plastic covers that fit on the
tubes.  They also indicated that the translucent plastic panels used in
many fixtures substantially can reduce the UV emissions.  Apparently, the
plastic panels need to be the solid type, not the egg crate type.   From
what I could gather, not all plastics provide UV reduction, so you have to
know what to look for.

Are there any thoughts on the subject?  Has anyone else done research on
the topic?  Is there much reason to be concerned?  Does anyone know of a
source of filtering materials that I might be able to find in most local
markets?

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:19:07 +0000
From: beerbuddy at attbi.com
Subject: Cider

Drew, I've only made a couple of ciders so far, but I've 
used the store bought apple juice with good results. 
I've used Safeway brand pasteurized juice (non-
pasteurized uses preservatives, which kill the yeast) 
dry Champagne yeast in a one-gallon jug, which results 
in a dry cider similar to hornsby's. I've also used 
liquid cider yeast in the same one gallon (half a test-
tube resulted in a quick start) with a cider that was 
moderately dry and very appley. Both were OG 1.085 and 
got very near FG of 1.005. 

Timothy
North Bend, WA
beerbuddy at attbi.com


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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:26:08 -0400
From: "Michael Hackney" <mhackney at micromationsciences.com>
Subject: Oxygen regulator

Does anyone know where I can obtain an Oxygen regulator?
Any idea on cost?  I actually just need a part for the regulator.  
I think my tank may have taken a spill during my recent move.
I tried calling a local medical supplier and they said I'd need to 
provide a prescription for the Oxygen.  Good thing I wasn't dying!

Hack



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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:45:24 -0500
From: "Gene Collins" <gene at bctruckelectric.com>
Subject: 

Adam Wead wrote: " I was getting good beer, but lousy attenuation and
low alcohol levels...felt like I was in Oklahoma."

Hey! What's with the Oklahoma bashing? We do have a few things to be
proud of here in the great Sooner State. Here is a sampling...
1. Oklahoma statutes do not consider 3.2% beer an intoxicating beverage,
but you can still get arrested for drinking it.
2. MADD's local chapter is called Madd Lite.
3. Budweiser and Coors Light are them expensive premium brands.
4. The local brewpub brews the beer in another city and trucks it in.
5. The local brewpub gets the grain silo that was intended for the
brewing location,           refuses to give it up, and hangs their sign
on it.
6. Strong beer can only be purchased in liquor (package) stores, and
only at room temperature.
7. Import means it came from Missouri, Kansas, or Texas. Also,
strangely, the same sources for lottery tickets.
8. The local government officials are crying about a lack of convention
and tourism business, yet they will not change the current alcohol
statutes to bring them up to current 1980 standards. Who wants to go to
a convention and drink water?
9. Oral Roberts University's praying hands are begging for more good
beer or God will call him home.
10. The Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers is alive and well!

Gene Collins
Broken Arrow, OK

Serious wine maker? Please visit my website www.eurojuices.com.





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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com>
Subject: conical fermenters (again)

I just caught up on about a weeks worth of HBD's I ran behind on, and was
pleasantly surprised to see the topic I was about to post about being
discussed- SS conical fermenters. Unfortunately, I didn't see the answers
to my particular questions, but that would be asking a bit much. (hmm- a
psychic hbd.org... Pat, can you arrange that?)

I too am interested in the 12.2 gal conical from Toledo Metal Spinning,
paired with a Zymico bottom dump valve and have 2 questions:

 - I don't have plans to do batches larger than 7 gallons any time soon,
but thought a 12 gallon conical would leave room to grow. Since the trub
gets dumped out of the bottom valve and there's no need to rack out of the
conical, should I be worried about the extra head space (sometimes as much
as 5 gallons worth)? Or will the CO2 layer formed during fermentation be
enough to protect the beer until bottling time? (within reason)
The alternative is to go with the Toledo 7 gallon conical, but the angle
of the sides isn't as sharp, and I fear the yeast wouldn't collect in the
bottom quite as easily without a lot of agitation.

 - is a side port with rotating racking arm really necessary?  I'm not
convinced, since the dump valve should purge most of the trub and yeast
prior to bottling. I don't mind if the first bottle or two are a bit
heavy with yeast/debris, I typically label them as such when I rack from a
secondary and drink them early to avoid off flavors.  Maybe those who use
conicals can comment on how much yeast is left in the fermenter after
a few flushes through the dump valve?

thanks-
Rama Roberts
San Francisco bay area







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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:56:11 -0400
From: "Adam Austin" <aaustin at vt.edu>
Subject: Brewing with just the basics.... a simple brewer in a tough spot.


I'd like to start by thanking everyone for their past posts.  I've enjoyed
the Homebrew Digest for sometime now, though this is my first attempt to
interact.  I'm a beginner- that is to say that I've never taken any steps
toward advanced brewing.  I have done LOTS of extract/specialty grain kits
and enjoyed brewing, drinking and sharing each batch.  However, it's time to
move on, and I can't just take this one step at a time.  I had planned to
brew enough kits to find the one I enjoyed the most, and play with as many
variables as I could to see first hand the differences each variable could
make.  That in its self could take a lifetime, but my plan was to move from
there to all grain brewing.  I had no plans beyond that point.  I figured
that all grain was a couple of years down the road.  Well now, things are
different.  Through a crazy series of events, I have found myself in a very
rural guerilla controlled territory in eastern Colombia.  I have access to
relatively good communications, but I'm far enough into the middle of
nowhere that supplies are extremely difficult to get.  Beer is unheard of.
I thought to myself, no problem...I'll just brew my own.  Well, it's not
quite as simple as that.  Ordering supplies is extremely expensive due to
shipping, extremely slow due to my remote location, and not very reliable.
This leaves me to work with what I have available locally.  I was able to
locate dry "extracto de malta" in Bogota, and was able to have 50 pounds
flown in.  Unfortunately, it turns out to have some sort of starch added, so
when it is boiled it turns into something that closely resembles oatmeal.
Very tasty, but a little thick to drink.  50 pounds of oatmeal, now that
should last a while!  Dry Brewing yeast is available in large quantities for
very little money.  I have not used any, so I am unable to judge it's
quality, but I'm confident that I can come up with yeast...I have a few
packets of Muntons with me, so I figure if the local stuff isn't any good, I
can brew with this and then use the slurry for later batches.  But now, lets
get down to the heart of the matter.  With extract out the window, I have to
take a crash course in all-grain.  Great.  I've read and read, and am
confident that I'm up to the task.  But there's one more problem.  I can't
get my hands on malted barley.   Barley is plentiful and cheaper than dirt.
Malted barley is nowhere to be found.  So now...I have to malt my own
barley.  Wow, now that's a big step from extract brewing.  I've had a really
hard time finding info on malting barley.  I do have access to quite a bit
of equipment, and a sizable workforce (everyone here would warmly welcome a
bit of beer).  This includes an industrial kitchen.  So now my plea for
help.  I've got yeast covered (I hope) and hops covered (I hope) as I've
ordered seeds to grow northern brewer hops.  So, anyone who can help with a
procedure for a beginner to malt barley I'd be forever in your debt!  As a
matter of fact, I'd even be happy to trade LOTS of malt extract oatmeal
stuff for a little information.  Sorry for making this so long, and thanks
in advance.

A Simple Brewer, Colombia.



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