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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Leviton's high current GFI ("Steve Alexander")
  spores & such ("Steve Alexander")
  yet more SSR/Leviton stuff ("Steve Alexander")
  in the backwoods of colombia (Alan McKay)
  Re: Hot Break - revisited ("Pete Calinski")
  Oxygen regulator and conical ("Bruce Garner")
  Re: Brewing with just the basics.... a simple brewer in a tough spot (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Oxygen (Bill Wible)
  Another Non-Weld All-grain Stand (Andrew Nix)
   (EFOUCH)
  malto-dextrin powder (AKGOURMET)
  Porter Problem-Cold steeping help please ("John Misrahi")
  beer X has flavour Y (Alan McKay)
  Competition Announcement (Jim Hinken)


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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 02:56:47 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Leviton's high current GFI

Wayne Holder says ...

[...]
>The actual sentence goes more like:
>
>"You CANNOT use a Solid State relay (SSR) with this unit. Doing so voids
the
>UL listing of the device."

Does the documentation say you can't use an SSR as the power relay (the
Leviton 50A/80A unit is just a current mismatch sensor and requires a
separate relay for power interruption) - OR - to they mean you can't have
an SSR circuit as part of the load  (for example in an SSR controlled
RIMS) ?

That an SSR can't be used as the primary power interrupter is
understandable.
There are some reasons why it might not be usable as part of the load -
depending on sensor design.  The online doc doesn't say.

>As a person that has dealt with SSR's that are shorted closed many times, I
>would guess that UL did not trust the SSR to be open after a ground fault.

Possible - tho' there are simple circuit design solutions the shorting
problem
the basic ones probably can't act fast enough to meet UL/GFI reqs.

 -S



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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 03:09:36 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: spores & such

A cubic foot of air runs 3 to 20 bacteria according to an Oregon
study and the 20 is high in my experience.  There are currently
(Early Fall) 150-450 mold spores per cubic ft throughout the
Midwestern US.   1500 spores/cu.ft is a very high level causing
severe problems to some individuals.

When you factor in the fact that 99+% of these airborne pests
couldn't live, much less thrive in a fermenter of pitched wort - air
is pretty safe - tho' still an potential source of infection.

The 100k spores & bacteria/cu.ft. would imply that the headspace
in a petri dishes would contain roughly 100 spores and bacteria -
obviously untrue.

 -S




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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 04:16:19 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: yet more SSR/Leviton stuff

Kent Fletcher says,

>The Leviton High Current GFI is basically a 120 v. GFI with an external
>current transformer.

There is a sense transformer - but no current transformer.

[...]
>A SSR acts as a single pole switch, so it cannot
>be used for GFI purposes. 

I don't mind mistakes but now you're just making
things up Kent.   Multipole SSRs have been available off-the-shelf
for over a decade and can easily be constructed from 1-pole SSRs.
This explanation is nonsense.  See
http://www.morelectric.com/payne.htm#Three%20Phase%20Solid%20State%20Relay
for an example of 2 pole SSRs rated at up to 150A.
Omron makes tons of multipole units.

No -  SSRs are not acceptable as a GFI interrupter relay probably
because either their failure mode (shorted in some cases) as Wayne
Holder suggested or their time to interrupt which is often up to half a
cycle  (8.33ms at 60hz) in this sort of power application.
 
 -S




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Date: Thu,  3 Oct 2002 07:00:34 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: in the backwoods of colombia


Adam,

It seems to me you have two options.  That malt extract you found
would be quite usable if you were able to find packaged enzymes that
could be used to mash it at 150F to 160F for an hour.  In fact,
raw unprocessed honey has the enzymes you need but I am not sure
how much they have so you would have to experiment.  If you
have tincture of iodine (like from the drugstore) you can test
for starch conversion - just test on a sample that will be
thrown out as you do not want to be eating iodine.  If it turns
really black when you drop iodine on it, there's lots of starch.
Test before and after for comparison.

As for malting, the first part is to sprout the barley.  You can
put it into a big barrel and fill with water, then drain after
8-1212 hours and leave drained for a few hours.  Do this several
times over 3 - 4 days and it should sprout.  You'll see a rootlet
poke out of one end, and when that rootlet reaches the other end
it is time to stop the process.  Actually if I recall correctly
the rootlet squirms from one end to the other underneath the
husk of the barleycorn - maybe someone else can clarify that
point.

Then you have to kiln it.  You should be able to do this in a
very low temp oven.  Try to keep it about 150F and mix it about
often.  Not sure how long it will take but probably 3 to 4 hours
anyway.  And don't pile it up very  high on the baking sheet.
This means you can only do a little at a time so this is where
your endless supply of manpower will come in handy ;-)

That's about it.  I think you want about 3% water, which is
quite dry.

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)


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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:17:30 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Hot Break - revisited

David Sweeney said:

"I decided to top off late in the boil...............The boil acted like I
had just started the boil.  That is, there was a profusion of foam on the
surface of the
wort that dissipated after several minutes of boil."

I waited to see if someone else (more up on this subject) would reply.
Apparently not.

I asked the same question a few years ago.  The answer I got (from Pete
Ensminger if memory serves me, pardons all around if memory doesn't) went
something like:

There are substances in the wort that thicken at certain temperatures near
but below boiling.  It is a reversible process so when the wort is in this
temperature range, this foam appears.

That's the story as I remember it.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************




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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:52:59 -0500
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Oxygen regulator and conical

Michael asks about repairing or replacing an oxygen regulator. Private
pilots use oxygen. Perhaps by contacting a pilot and get what you need. Are
there any pilots among us?

Do the Toledo Metal Spinning conicals come with a closed bottom which has to
be drilled out? If so is it flat or round?

Bruce Garner
Madison, WI



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Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:34:28 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Brewing with just the basics.... a simple brewer in a tough spot

"Adam Austin" <aaustin at vt.edu>, a self proclaimed "Simple Brewer, 
writes from Columbia:

>Through a crazy series of events, I have found myself in a very
>rural guerilla controlled territory in eastern Colombia.

Wow.  Sounds scary.  I'd love to know what's behind this.  Was it 
something like what happened to Dorothy from Kansas?  Or is it one of 
those things that you could tell us, but then you'd have to shoot us?

>Barley is plentiful and cheaper than dirt.
>Malted barley is nowhere to be found.  So now...I have to malt my own
>barley.

George DePiro has posted his experience on malting barley.  Check the 
archives at http://hubris.engin.umich.edu/cgi-bin/dothread.  I would 
guess it was two or three years ago.

I've done it too.  I would think the main problem will be drying the 
malt.  You can make "wind malt" outdoors if you have heat (no 
problem, I'd guess) and relatively low humidity (probably a big 
problem).

>I've got ... hops covered (I hope) as I've
>ordered seeds to grow northern brewer hops.

I trust you haven't ordered seeds but rather rhizomes - cuttings of 
roots.  Hop seeds don't normally breed true.  I've never seen them 
for sale.

The other problem with hops is growing them in the tropics.  Graham 
Sanders of North Queensland, Australia, grows them with limited 
success.  They grow well but don't produce much.

I would think if can somehow get them shipped to you, some hop 
pellets of some high alpha acid hop would be a better bet.  Get a 
variety that is dual purpose - bittering and aroma, and stores well, 
such as Chinook.

>Sorry for making this so long

An email tip (for everyone) - use the return key to break up the big 
blocks of text into more easily read paragraphs with blank lines 
between.  It won't seem as long.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:44:46 -0400
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Oxygen


>I tried calling a local medical supplier and they said
>I'd need to provide a prescription for the Oxygen.

I've run into this, too.  Let's see, CO2, Nitrogen,
and Propane - all deadly gasses, one of which is
even explosive - those are readily available to the
public almost anywhere, no questions asked.  But
Oxygen, necessary for life, well that you need a
prescription to buy or have.  Doesn't make sense,
does it?

But the fact is that O2 is commonly used in welding,
because it makes things burn hotter.  So it can also
be used as an accelerant or in the building of easy
to make bombs.  Therefore it is (rightfully) controlled.
And it was controlled even before 9/11 and the ensuing
anti-terrorism zeal.

Liquid Bread offers a product called the Oxynator,
which is a small, disposable (1lb?) O2 tank with a
regulator and diffusion stone.  They recommend 2
15 second bursts of oxygen into 5 gallons of wort,
and they claim a tank should last 10 or more batches.

Bill




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Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:50:36 -0400
From: Andrew Nix <anix at vt.edu>
Subject: Another Non-Weld All-grain Stand

Alan McKay posted:

Joe asks what is the best way to build a stand without welding.
The perhaps not-so-obvious question is : wood!

My 2 cents worth:

I built my two tier system out of wood (2x4's), using brackets made for 
building shelves (purchased at the local Home Depot, Lowe's what have 
you).  I used pieces of steel angle iron with bolt holes (scrap from our 
machine shop, but can be purchased at the same store you get the wood) to 
hold the kegs on and to mount the burners below the kegs.

The setup (pre-use) can be seen at (takes a little while to load since it 
is a PDF):  http://filebox.vt.edu/users/anix/RIMS3.pdf

the unfinished system can be viewed 
at:  http://www.hbd.org/nrvbg/RIMS2.pdf  this shows a little more detail of 
the assembly.

In these pictures you can see that both kegs are supported by the angle 
iron and that the wood at the top of the stand has aluminum flashing 
material attached to keep it from burning.  All of the steel angle is 
attached to the wood with heavy duty wood screws with washers.  The steel 
is assembled to hold the burners using 1/4" bolts with lock washers 
(important).  This whole setup was done with simple tools (drill, screw 
driver, hammer, and socket wrench).

After 12 batches, the only thing that has burned are the wood slats along 
the outside of the mash tun....but who cares.  If it's hot enough on the 
outside of the mash tun to burn, I'm not losing any heat am I?

Drewmeister
Andrew Nix
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Virginia Tech
anix at vt.edu
http://www.vt.edu:10021/A/anix



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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:51:00 -0400
From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com
Subject: 


Danny posted this "humorous" website regarding listowners:

For a laugh (at least I thought it was funny), check out
http://www.skally.net/listowner/humor.html

 - --Danny
The site offers this observation:
Q: How many people does it take to change a light bulb in cyberspace?
Answer: 1331

Actually, if you add up the numbers of people needed, you get 1,369.


Eric J. Fouch





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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:39:11 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: malto-dextrin powder

Got a quick question.  I have a Tripel that started at 1.090 and finished at 
1.010.  I was hoping for an FG of 1.015. Can I add malto-dextrin powder at 
bottling to increase the body and mouthfeel or does the powder have to be 
boiled?  Can I boil it in water or does it have to be wort?    Thanks.

Bill
Juneau, AK


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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:52:13 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Porter Problem-Cold steeping help please

Hi all,

Is there a way to darken a beer once it is already in the fermenter? any
idea if that cold steeping technique can be added once the yeast is working?
i took a sample from the bucket of my smoked belgian porter... fantastic,,
maltier and smokier than the last.... but i must have inadequately crushed
the chocolate
malt (used a rolling pin for that)... it is nowhere near dark enough for a
porter.... it looked darker when i was filling the fermenter etc...
i dont get it

thanks

John
Montreal, Canada

Pothole?  Thats luxury!  I have to ferment directly in my mouth.  On brew
day I fill up my mouth with wort in the am and drop a few yeast cells in and
3 hours later I swallow.  Wish I had a pothole to ferment in. -Mike Brennan
on the HBD

"Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson


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Date: Thu,  3 Oct 2002 22:19:23 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: beer X has flavour Y

Folks,

Our e-club is currently discussing doing an directed tasting, and we'd
like to start with doing 4 to 6 beers which are good (and perhaps
pronounced?) examples of a specific beer flavour.  e.g. 'flowery
hop aroma' or 'diacetyl' or 'sweet in the finish'.

What beer can you recommend for which flavour?

cheers,
 -Alan


- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)


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Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:48:50 -0700
From: Jim Hinken <jim.hinken at verizon.net>
Subject: Competition Announcement

The Brews Brothers are pleased to announce Novembeerfest
2002 homebrewing competition.  Novembeerfest is a qualifying
event for MCAB V

Novembeerfest will be held Saturday, November 2 at Larrys
Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St.  #103, Kent, WA 98032

Entries will be accepted from all BJCP/AHA beer style
categories, including cider and mead.  The  style guidelines
may be viewed at
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/style-index.html.
Three  bottles are required for entry with an entry fee of
U.S.$5.  The standard AHA entry form and  bottle labels may
be used.  Entry forms may be downloaded from
www.brewsbrothers.org.  Entries  will be accepted through
October 26 and may be shipped to

Jim Hinken
24211 4 PL W
Bothell, WA  98021
425-483-9324
brews.brothers at verizon.net

Entries may also be dropped off at:

Larrys Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103,Kent, WA
98032, 206-872-6846
Mountain Homebrew and Wine Supply, 12121 N.E. Northup Way,
Suite 210, Bellevue, WA 98005,  206-882-9929
Bob's Homebrew Supply, 2821 NE 55th St, Seattle, WA 98105,
206-527-9283




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