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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Starch Iodine Test (Fred L Johnson)
  RE: car boy cleaning ("David Houseman")
  RIMS and Carboy Cleaning (rickdude02)
  water retention for cereal flakes (Marc Sedam)
  Just wondering ("Wayne Holder")
  Shaking his head in anonimity... (Bill & Kazuko Macher)
  Food-grade paint ("Jon & Megan Sandlin")
  Simple things (Scott)
  Re: carboy cleaning (Demonick)
  El Paso, TX (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
  Re: carboy cleaning (David Towson)
  FWH query - thanks (David Towson)
  cyser help ("ira Edwards")
  Iodine Tests (RiedelD)
  Re: 10 gal Gott capacity ("Paul Stutzman")
  Superheated steam (Bill & Kazuko Macher)
  first wort bitterness (Jeff & Ellen)


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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:34:32 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject:  Starch Iodine Test

Fran Flyn asks if anyone is still using the starch iodine test?

I do use the iodine test regularly, especially when I am using an unfamiliar
base malt.  For example, the iodine test has shown me that it takes me much
longer to reach the same degree of conversion using Munton's English Pale
malt compared to most American 2-row malts.

Also I have noticed that based upon the test I perform using a drop of
tincture of iodine (undiluted from the drug store, not the stuff you may get
at the homebrew store), I can detect a slight positive reaction long after
most folks would think conversion is complete.  I suspect I'm seeing
additional starch coming out of the grains after I stir occasionally, but
you would never see this without the iodine test.  The detection of the
starch being stained will be dependent on the concentration of the iodine
you have in the reaction, so I'm probably seeing starch that others are
missing because their reagents are too dilute to detect the endpoint.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:45:56 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: car boy cleaning

Stephen Mackenzie says:

"I have a carboy that has accumulated dried wort on its sides, and so far
neither soaking or blasting with a hose can get the stuff off.  Any ideas on
how to make this usable again???"


Soak in what?  Hard to imagine that soaking with a solution of PBW or TSP
would not loosen any crud.  Then use a carboy brush to give the insides a
good scrubbing.  I've found that together the PBW and physical scrubbing
takes care of just about anything I've thrown at it.

Dave Houseman




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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:26:57 -0700
From: rickdude02 at earthlink.net
Subject: RIMS and Carboy Cleaning

Two cleaning questions have come up that I'd like to throw my $0.02 towards. 
And they both have the same response.

For the crusty carboy, I recommend using Straight-A.  (Yes, I make the stuff,
but I do have a number of satisfied customers who may be willing to vouch for
it as well.)  I don't know what has been used to soak it prior to now, but 1
tablespoon of Straight-A per gallon of water is generally all I need when I've
ignored a carboy following racking.  Let it soak for a few days.

For faster results, two tablespoons should knock out just about anything
overnight.  I'm not at my notebook at the moment, or I'd cut and paste in
Brian Cole's (a previous AHA HBoY)comments to that effect.

For the RIMS, I have had private correspondance with some brewers with a
myriad of systems that have found Straight-A up to the task of cleaning their
systems as well.

Try it out-- your local shop can get it from L.D. Carlson or F.H. Steinbart in
the U.S. or from Distrivin in Canada (sold as Vigorox).

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.
www.ecologiccleansers.com


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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:08:24 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: water retention for cereal flakes

I don't think that the cereal flakes are the cause of your liquid loss, 
unless you did not mash them.  All flaked cereal grains need to be 
mashed in order to break down the starches into simple sugars, but the 
flaking process just means they don't need to be "cooked" to make the 
starch available.

If you did not mash these flakes, it's possible that they sucked up a 
great percentage of water (although not knowing the amount in your 
recipe, it's tough to know).  But if you did mash, the flakes should 
"dissolve" as the starches are broken down.  At the end of using cereal 
flakes you should NOT see a bunch of whole flakes floating around.  If 
you did, that could be part of the problem.

Cheers!


"I have 20% as mash H2O retention rate for malt.  Is it greater than 
that for
raw flaked wheat and/or oat?  I ask cause I lost about 15% of my brewing
water somewhere and this is the only thing of which I can think."

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:12:23 -0700
From: "Wayne Holder" <zymie at charter.net>
Subject: Just wondering

When the steam debate dies down, can we start up the Botulism thread again?

 ;^)

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach, CA
http://www.zymico.com



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:28:14 -0400
From: Bill & Kazuko Macher <macher2 at attbi.com>
Subject: Shaking his head in anonimity...

Obviously getting sucked in by this troll...is that what you call them?

While "shaking his head in anonimity [sic], someone kind of misrepresents 
my position.

I say, put you name behind you words and I will waste my time responding to 
them!

And also snipes:

 >I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Steve Alexander on
 >something.

Well you should believe it. Because Steve contributes much to this forum 
and should be respected for it. AND HE LIKE MOST OTHERS HERE STANDS BEHIND 
WHAT HE SAYS.

 >Shaking my head in anonimity,
 >The Beer Phantom

Anonymity and perhaps you should add shame too, if you are ashamed to share 
you name with us...

Bill




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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:25:20 -0700
From: "Jon & Megan Sandlin" <sandlin at bendcable.com>
Subject: Food-grade paint

Is there a food-grade paint that is heat resistant to boiling =
temperatures?  A proposed use might be using it to coat an iron or =
conrete boiling pot.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jon Sandlin
Bend, Oregon



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:31:39 -0700
From: Scott <sejose at pacbell.net>
Subject: Simple things

Just brewed a California Common yesterday.  Haven't brewed ina YEAR! because
of new baby, etc etc.  Been caught up in RIMS planning and such and had
forgotten the beauty of a fermentation starting.  Checked my fridge this
morning and all is frothy......

Fermentation is a beautiful thing!

Scott Jose




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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:32:58 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: carboy cleaning


One cup of bleach, then fill carboy with cold water, and let sit 1-5 days.

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:42:28 -0400
From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
Subject: El Paso, TX

Fellow brewers,

I'll be in El Paso, Texas next week (arriving 10/21, departing 10/24) on
business.  I'll be sharing a car with another colleague, so I will have
transportation.  Any must see's/drink?  Local brewpubs?  Taprooms?  Touristy
sights?

Just read in the latest BYO about a guy from El Paso with a SWEET brewery.
Anyone know this guy?  Is he reading this?

Private e-mails are fine.

Thanks,
Kevin
Canton, MI



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:49:32 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: carboy cleaning

In HBD 4067, Stephen Mackenzie asks:

>I have a carboy that has accumulated dried wort on its sides, and so far 
>neither soaking or blasting with a hose can get the stuff off.  Any ideas 
>on how to make this usable again???

I have always had satisfactory results using a carboy brush and just about 
any cleanser.  Fancy cleaning chemicals are nice, but it's hard to beat 
plain old "elbow grease" for making crud move.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:03:39 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: FWH query - thanks

Thanks to Steve Alexander, Jim Layton and Steve Jones for replying to my 
query concerning the effects of different physical hop forms on first wort 
hopping.  Much appreciated.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:10:59 -0800
From: "ira Edwards" <ira_j_e at hotmail.com>
Subject: cyser help

hello,

I have just mixed my first fresh Cyser, with pressed apples and honey. I
have made Cysers with store bought in the past but this is my first try at
the real thing.  as per my ciders, I mixed in about 25% dolgo Crabapples to
ofset the sweetenss of the other apples I picked up here in Alaska.  after I
mixed in the warmed honey water (1:1 honey water and sweet cider) I got a SG
of 1.095 (the apple juice was 1.070).  immediately, a bunch of sludge formed
and sank to the bottom, where it has bben for several days.

the Cyser is fermenting away happily, but I am wondering about the sludge.
I assume that the apple tannins coagulated the honey protiens and sent them
to the bottom of the carboy, but it looks like I will lose over a gallon
(out of 6) at racking, as it does not ssem to be settling.

has anyone experienced this, and if so, was it a problem?  i would hate to
lose over a gallon of what I worked to create...

thanks for the help,
 -Ira Edwards




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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:51:04 -0400
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: Iodine Tests

Kap'n Salty says:

> Which brings up an interesting survey question: Does anyone out there
> with more than a few batches under their belt still do an iodine
> starch conversion test? If so, why? I'd be interested in hearing any
> contrary opinions. 

I still perform conversion tests because with varying base malts and
mash schedules, I don't find that conversion completes in the same
time for every batch.  True, I usually estimate when it should be
complete and it usually is.  But occasionally I do find that conversion
is a little slow and I have to leave the mash a bit longer than
expected.  I have about 60 all-grain batches under my belt, BTW.

Dave Riedel
Victoria, Can.



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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:56:38 -0700
From: "Paul Stutzman" <Paul.Stutzman at airborne.com>
Subject: Re: 10 gal Gott capacity

At some point I read an article that gave constants for 
approximating the volume (in gallons) required to mash a pound of
grain given different grain to water ratios.  I put together a
spreadsheet to find the maximum amount of grain various
containers can mash.  I also used ProMash to estimate a maximum
OG that can be expected using the maximum capacity of the various
mashing vessels given a 5 gallon batch size.  Here are some of
the results:

Max Lbs of Grain with a 1:1 grain to water ratio:

5 Gallon Vessel    - 15.2
10 Gallon Vessel   - 30.5
15.5 Gallon Vessel - 47.2

Max Lbs of Grain with a 1:1.5 grain to water ratio:

5 Gallon Vessel    - 11.0
10 Gallon Vessel   - 22.1
15.5 Gallon Vessel - 34.2

Max Theoretical OG with a 1:1 grain to water ratio:

5 Gallon Vessel    - 1.086
10 Gallon Vessel   - 1.170
15.5 Gallon Vessel - 1.264

Max Theoretical OG with a 1:1.5 grain to water ratio:

5 Gallon Vessel    - 1.062
10 Gallon Vessel   - 1.123
15.5 Gallon Vessel - 1.191

These are intended to be approximations; there were a number of
assumptions (80% brewhouse efficiency, for example) that went
into these calculations.  I hope this helpful anyway.

Paul Stutzman
Seattle, WA




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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:57:49 -0400
From: Bill & Kazuko Macher <macher2 at attbi.com>
Subject: Superheated steam

Hi,

Alan Meeker comments...

>Regarding the danger of steam - it is not the pressure so much as the
>  /burn hazard/ that steam posesses. Steam can really cause some nasty
>burns because, on top of the fact that pressurized steam is "superheated,"
>it also carries more heat bang for the buck due to the fact that it transfers
>  its latent heat of vaporization to your skin when it hits it.

Just a fine point...normal steam from a pressure cooker is not super 
heated. If you want to super heat it, what you do is run the steam line 
through a flame after it comes out of the seam source.

In my humble opinion...no need to do this for mashing. Perhaps if you use 
steam for boiling you would do this...

As Alan says...steam can be dangerous...take care if you decide to use it 
in homebrewing...

Bill





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Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:42:34 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: first wort bitterness

I've been First Wort Hopping almost all of my brews for a few years now.  I 
use whole hops mostly and pellets sometimes.  I add no more hops for 
bittering and find, by my taste, that I get accurate bittering using the 
schedules you would normally use for a sixty minute boil if you'd added the 
hops at boiling instead of FWH.  I also add more hops for flavor and aroma 
later in the boil.

So I figure my FWH as bittering hops and then enjoy any additional benefit 
of their flavor and aroma without worrying about it.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa, FL



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