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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  welcome (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: Newbie Questions/Bottle labels (Fred L Johnson)
  Subject: Newbie Introduction ("Jodie Davis")
  Re: Newbie Introduction ("Beer Phantom")
  Re: Min / Max time for starters ("Jodie Davis")
  DormBrew? ("John Misrahi")
  burton ale yeast recipes ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: aluminum pots (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Newbie (Al Beers)
  RE: Mark's Newbie questions ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Newbie Introduction (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Newbie questions (Jeff Renner)
  Fermenting in Corny Kegs and Brew Pubs in Anchorage ("Drake")
  French beer and cider (Warren Place)
  RE: Min / Max time for starters (Kevin Crouch)
  iodophor and plastic/rubber - What happens? ("Stephen T Yavorski")
  Glenbrew Kits - problem ("John Misrahi")
  kegs - sizes, shapes, conversions? ("Stephen T Yavorski")


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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 05:14:47 -0500
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: welcome

Teresa;

  Welcome to the crowd of homebrewers!  There are several women who brew, a few 
who contribute here.  One is Lynne O'Conner, of St Patricks Homebrew Sypply
( www.stpats.com  I think ), who has been very helpful to a number of us as we 
got started...  

  There is brewery in Vermont (across Lake Champlain from me) in Tunbridge, 
that is only personned by women brewers!  And, I have read somewhere that 
historically it was women who did most of the brewing...

 Happy Brewing! 

 ..Darrell



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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:32:52 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Questions/Bottle labels

In the last HBD, I mentioned my method of labeling bottles with "flags" on
the neck of the bottle.  I failed to include in my description of making the
labels that a rubber band is attached to the flag through the punched hole
in the label to attach the flag to the neck of the bottle.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:13:26 -0500
From: "Jodie Davis" <jodie at ga.prestige.net>
Subject: Subject: Newbie Introduction

Hi Teresa,

Heck no, you're not the only female homebrewer!
I just started this year and have made 8 or so batches.
Did you know there's even a beer competition for female brewers? It just
happened weekend before last:
http://hazeclub.org/QOB2002/QOB.html
Welcome to a fun--and rewarding--hobby!

Jodie Davis Barthlow
North Georgia



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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:23:10 -0600
From: "Beer Phantom" <beer_phantom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Introduction

Well pull my necktie and call me whiplash!  A genuine female finally posts 
to the HBD.  The great beer gods are certainly smiling today!  If any of you 
neanderthals scare her away I will personally revoke your homebrewing 
licence for good (which might actually be a good thing).  Play nice.

Teresa, let me be the first one to cordially welcome you to the wonderful 
world of the HBD.  Read it daily and read it often.  There's more stuff in 
here than you can shake a stick at.  And at least 1/2 of it is actually 
worth reading!  Don't be scared by the geek talk from the chemists out there 
(you know who you are), they like to speak latin and in multi-syllable words 
so that people will think they are important.  Read with a critical and 
skeptical eye is the best advice I can give.

Regarding the agony of waiting.  I have a solution - brew again!  As fast as 
you possibly can.  When you get the second batch in the bottle, you will be 
drinking the first, then when that's gone, you can start on the second.  
Meanwhile, start a third.  Keep the line full and you will only have to wait 
once.

I say we need more women homebrewers.  I look forward to deep, meaningful, 
insightful, and revealing comments from Teresa, which should be a welcome 
change from the sniping and pi$$ing contests of the chemistry geeks, the 
BORING rehash of anything remotely connected to HSA, and the idiocy of the 
steam thread.  Welcome Teresa, we (at least I) look forward to hearing from 
you more often!

Yours, in anonimity,

The Beer Phantom







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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:24:20 -0500
From: "Jodie Davis" <jodie at ga.prestige.net>
Subject: Re: Min / Max time for starters

Thanks Matthew, I've wondered how long one can keep a starter. And my
business is involving so much travel now I need as much flexibility as
possible in preparing for and deciding when it is brewing day.

In my efforts to improve my beer I've done a starter or two. I haven't
done anything more than swirl the wort in the flask to oxygenate it. (An
Oxynator is on my Christmas list.) I haven't noticed any activity like I
do in a carboy of beer, although I do end up with a yeast cake. From
what I've read it can happen so fast I might not see it? Also, should I
put it in the fridge once there's a cake until I need it?

Jodie Davis Barthlow
Georgia

>Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:27:46 -0500
From: Martin_Brungard at URSCorp.com
Subject: Re: Min / Max time for starters

I am a strong believer in using a good starter.  The argument of not
having
the time to create a starter doesn't really pass muster with me.   I may
not know when I'm going to brew again, but I do have an indication of
what beer style or yeast I'll be using with the next batch.  That
enables me to get my starter going well in advance.

I have been stepping up the commercial liquid yeast packs using two
successive 700 ml wort additions for a 5 gal ale batch.  The second wort
addition is added after the first has completed its activity.  Of course
I've been oxygenating for each step up.  A good ale starter usually
takes me about 4 days to mature.  I usually put the starter in the
refrigerator to settle out, allowing me to decant the poor-quality
starter beer off.

The minimum time required for an adequate starter will probably be
highlighted by several people on the list.  All kinds of factors are
involved.

The maximum time that you can hold a starter doesn't really have to be a
factor though.   Since I keep my starter in the refrigerator after its
through its active phase, it will keep relatively fresh for several
weeks. But, if I couldn't use the starter within a couple of weeks, I
would decant the starter beer off the yeast cake and add another dose of
fresh wort. But this time, I keep the starter in the refrigerator to
reduce the ferment activity.  The idea here is to nourish the yeast and
keep them healthy, not grow more cells.  With this approach, I'm betting
that you could get a month or more of viable storage.

The most important point here is that you probably know what yeast
you're going to use for the next beer.  Why not go ahead and get the
starter going well before you need it.  A few weeks or a month is not
too long in advance to get your starter going.

Martin Brungard
>Tallahassee, FL



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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:09:01 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: DormBrew?

Someone posted the following links
www.dormbrew.com
and
www.1gallon.com

They are selling kits to make 1 gallon extract batches. What a waste of
time! This appears worse than mr. beer. There is nothing worse than waiting
a month for 5 or 6 bottles of beer after racking etc.. (i tried a couple of
teeny batches in my newbie brewing days). Not only that but they are trying
to target college students living in dorms...I don't know about most
students, but if i was looking to have a party, i could envision the
following scenario

Student A: You know what we should do?
Student B: What? Homework?
Student A: Naaah,,,,, have a party!!
Student B: Cool! We need some beer!
Student A: I've got it covered, i have a batch of dorm brew. It's cheap and
will be ready in 3 weeks!
Student B: 3 weeks?? okay, but how much beer will there be?
Student A: oh, 5 or 6 bottles.
Student B: for each of us?
Student A: No , in total.
Student B: hmmmm.....i think i'm going to go do some trig homework now...see
you later.......

I know quite a few people that do a batch or 2 of homebrew in anticipation
of a party (a corny keg can be a great thing), but this seems rediculous..
4.75$ for ingredients for half a dozen bottles?

 -John-

Pothole?  Thats luxury!  I have to ferment directly in my mouth.  On brew
day I fill up my mouth with wort in the am and drop a few yeast cells in and
3 hours later I swallow.  Wish I had a pothole to ferment in. -Mike Brennan
on the HBD

"Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson




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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:57:37 -0500 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: burton ale yeast recipes

John Maylone posts about his high temperature success with the White Labs
Burton Ale yeast strain.  I used this yeast twice.  The first batch I don't
remember.  The second batch was for a pseudo-Sister Star of the Sun style
IPA (1.065 and 100 IBUs) fermented at about 62 to 65degF.  The ester profile
of this particular brew was not to my liking and some others noted this as
well.  Very fruity especially when counterpressure bottled and you got your
first whiff after opening the bottle.

What style recipes did you brew with this and did you note the excessive
esters as well (maybe they weren't too bad compared to other yeasts at
78degF)?

Thanks,
Pete Czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:17:18 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: aluminum pots

"Nichols, Josh" <Josh.Nichols at us.gambro.com> writes:

>Is there any problem with using an aluminum pot.  I have found one 
>that has a spigot built into the side.

The short answer is no, no problem.  For the long answer, see the 
archives.  It's been thrashed out over the years in gruesome detail.

For a little more detail than the short answer, I've used three 5 mm 
thick 10 gallon aluminum stock pots with spigots for some years. 
They have better conductivity than stainless, but are softer and 
can't be cleaned with caustic.  That's no problem, there are other 
safe cleaners that work.  I like them.

I ferment my ales in the pot I use to heat my water, too.

The Alzheimer's connection to cooking in aluminum has been pretty well refuted.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:15:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Beers <beersal at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie

Tereas wrote: "Just curious though... after lurking a
bit, I get the 
impression I'm
one of -- if not the only -- female on this list...
lol. Are 
"girl
brewers" really such a rare breed, or have the others
just 
not found
occasion to speak up this last week?"
Welcome to homebrewing and the HBD. This is a great
group of people. You'll learn a lot here. As far as
you being thje only woman in the list...can't say I
recall any here. Hadn't noticed, but now that you
mention it....Zero problem tho. And for sure you are
not the only female homebrewer out there. My wife
brews too, and there are 7 women in our homebrew club.
Just wanted to welcome you and don't be afraid to post
a question here. That's how we all learn. Also check
the Archive or Search area for old posts to find
information. 


=====
Bath City Brewery
Brewing in Mt. Clemens, MI
[48.4, 21] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:20:30 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Mark's Newbie questions 

Mark asks about re-boiling bottle caps.  The bottom line is you can boil and
you can re-boil.  No harm done.  However, boiling isn't the only way to go
as others have pointed out.  Soaking in Iodophor or other sanitizer will
work as well.  Just dry and store unused caps until the next bottling
session.  But the easiest approach is not to sanitize at all.  After all
what's going on bottle caps?  I was a closet boiler of caps and had just
moved to using Iodophor when I had a conversation with George Fix where he
said that he never sanitized his bottle caps.  Hey, if it was good enough
for George who am I to argue, especially when it made the bottling session
easier.  

Dave Houseman



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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:18:13 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Introduction

New brewer Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com> of Fairbanks, AK 
introduces herself and writes:

>after spending a week in England drinking cellar-temperature,
>non-CO2'ed "real ale", the thought of being stuck with cold, fizzy
>American beer was just more than I could bear. So I ran out and bought a
>homebrewing starter kit the week after I got back.

Welcome to a wonderful hobby/obsession.  British real ale is a great 
inspiration.  It was part of the reason I got into brewing many years 
ago.  I just brewed a best bitter yesterday that is happily 
fermenting away.  I will serve it on hand pump in 2-1/2 weeks for a 
party.  Hand pumped real ale is always a hit.

>(Do you ever get used to the
>waiting part, or is it torture after every batch?)

Once you have enough in the pipeline it gets easier.  Better brew 
your next batch now!

>Just curious though... after lurking a bit, I get the impression I'm
>one of -- if not the only -- female on this list... lol. Are "girl
>brewers" really such a rare breed, or have the others just not found
>occasion to speak up this last week?

Sadly, our hobby is largely made up of men, often with facial hair 
and large beer storage units.  Women are under represented, but they 
are most welcome, even eagerly welcomed.  There are a few on this 
list who post now and then, and certainly many more who lurk.

Our local club has perhaps 15% women, and while we have always had 
women members, their number is increasing.  It makes for a much 
better club.  Our meetings are not just a bunch of beer drinking guys 
standing around talking sports.

Women are also well represented at the American Homebrewers 
Association's (AHA) national conferences, although they are still in 
a minority.  The AHA Board of Advisors has two women members, and 
they are most definitely not tokens.

This brings up another subject.  One of the best things you can do to 
improve your beer making skills is to join your local club. The other 
members can encourage you in your brewing and help evaluate your 
beer, and you can taste other homebrews for inspiration.

A quick search of the AHA web site 
http://www.beertown.org/cgi-bin/Clubs/clubs.cgi shows that your local 
club is:

Zymurgists Borealis
P.O. Box 84988
Fairbanks AK 99708
907) 474-2138
stihlerunits at mosquitonet.com
http://www.mosquitonet.com/~stihlerunits/ScottsDen/Beer/zb/zb.html

It looks like a pretty informal group - maybe you can inspire them to 
become more active.

You can also join the national organization, the American Homebrewers 
Association (Alaska has the highest per capita AHA membership of any 
state by far, beating even Colorado, where the headquarters are) see 
http://www.beertown.org/AHA/index.htm.  You can get a membership 
discount of $5.00 by being a member of your local club and joining 
through your club's AHA liaison.  If the Fairbanks club doesn't have 
an AHA liaison, let me know.

The most tangible benefit of AHA membership is perhaps Zymurgy 
magazine, which comes out six time per year, and is a fine magazine 
for brewers of all levels.  There is also a new pub discount program 
that could save you your membership several times over if there are 
participating pubs in Fairbanks.  As a new program, it is just 
getting off the ground but is expanding rapidly.

And the Homebrew Digest is another great source of beer improving 
hints and information.

Hope this info helps you in becoming an enthusiastic and skilled homebrewer.

Jeff

Charter member (1986) Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Member AHA since 1980
Member AHA Board of Advisors
AHA Liaison
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:36:01 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie questions

As "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> writes from an undisclosed location:

>If you brew indoors (like in a shed or garage) with propane, be 
>cautious about carbon monoxide, leaky propane, oxygen consumption, 
>etc.  The turkey fryers use a lot of oxygen, and they can produce a 
>tremendous amount of CO, because of their poor efficiency.

Everyone who has gas of any sort in their home should have a carbon 
monoxide detector anyhow for every day safety.  It's a simple matter 
to take it to the area you brew in while you are brewing.

I like the kind that has a digital readout, not just an alarm for 
dangerous levels.  That way I can monitor how high levels are 
getting.  I think OSHA allows something like 50 ppm CO for eight 
hours exposure, but I keep levels down below 15 ppm or so by just 
opening the garage doors.  Of course, in warm weather, I just brew 
with them open anyhow, but in Michigan winters, it's nice to capture 
at least a little of the burner heat.

Nils Hedglin in Sacramento beat me to the trick I was going to 
mention to eliminate any air bubbles when racking - pinch the hose at 
the bubble (where the hose joins the racking cane in my experience, 
then release.  Sometimes it takes a couple of tries, but it's easy to 
do and effective.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 07:59:48 -0900
From: "Drake" <drakes at gci.net>
Subject: Fermenting in Corny Kegs and Brew Pubs in Anchorage

I'm planning on buying some corny kegs to use for secondary fermentors as
well as storing/serving.  It seems pretty straight forward.  Are there any
gotcha's or tricks that I should be aware of?

Kevin Baily asked about brew pubs in Anchorage.

The top three are:

Moose's Tooth -- great pizza too
Glacier Brewhouse
Humpy's Alehouse

Also try Cusack's if you want the smoky bar atmosphere.

Cheers, Kerry Drake



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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:13:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Warren Place <wrplace at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: French beer and cider

Hey all,
	I'm planning to visit Northern France in a few weeks and was
wondering if anybody could make recommendations for things to see that
would be interesting to a brewer or cider maker.  I've found quite a bit
of info on French brewing, though I don't know if any of those breweries
offer tours in english.  I'm really at a loss for cider info.  I know the
French produce great cider in the Normandy area, but how would one find
out more?  Any english tours?

Warren Place



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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Min / Max time for starters

On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:33:20 -0800
Mike in Monterrey writes...
Subject: Min / Max time for starters

>How soon before brewing is too late to bother with a
starter?  If I realize
>12 hours before that I will be brewing the next day,
will that help at all?

Mike,  yes it will help quite a bit. Anything helps.
The objective for creating a starter should be to make
sure you are pitching the recommended number of viable
yeast cells.  A viable yeast cell is often defined as
A cell that is alive or capable of reproducing.  You
are wondering if 12 hours is enough to produce an
adequate pitching rate.  This depends on how much you
are starting with, of course, but a hypothetical
example would have you taking a pitchable 

tube from White Labs or Wyeast and creating a starter
in order to work up an acceptable number of cells to
pitch a high-gravity beer or a lager. 

Consider these assertions...
1)The ideal starter would be one with a recommended
number of yeast cells at the lowest average age
possible.  
2)During the logarithmic growth phase, the nuber of
yeast cells may increase as much as 1000-fold (or 3.0
Logs within 24 hours" (Brewing Techniques, May/June
1994) 
3)During the growth phase..."As the oxygen and
nutrients are depleted, the yeast enter a phase of
decelerating growth (approx 12 hrs)" (Brewing
Techniques, May/June 1994)

Creating a starter 12 to 24 hours before brewing
should allow a significant amount of yeast growth,
provided you are 

starting with an adequate number of cells to get you
to the recommended level.  It will also ensure that a
maximum number of the cells in your culture will be
young and viable since yeast health will begin to
deteriorate at a rate of about 25% per week, or so it
is said.  As to your question...
>"How long can I keep a one quart starter..."  
you can keep if for a few weeks, but after than I
would work it up again as you will have lost a lot of
viable cells, unless you plan on getting into some
serious storage techniques.  I can't help you there.

There are lots of resources out there to tell you what
the recommended pitching rates are.  Don't be daunted
by the commercial pitching rate as the recommended
homebrew rates are much less.  Another tip is to
continuously aerate or agitate your starter.  I'm not
sure if the scientific basis for this has been worked
out, but some sources claim this helps quite a bit. 

Kevin Crouch
Vancouver, Washington, USA



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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:39:31 -0500
From: "Stephen T Yavorski" <syavorsk at csc.com>
Subject: iodophor and plastic/rubber - What happens?

I recently have had two carboys stored (for approximately two months)
completely full of iodophor solution and capped with rubber stoppers. The
solution was in contact with the rubber.  When I went to use the carboys,
the bottom of the rubber stopper was coated with a black crusty substance.
It looked like mold, but was hard, crusty, and appeared to be fused with
the rubber stopper.

Questions have arisen lately regarding iodophor.

Last week, Pat Babcock mentioned that iodophor stored in corny kegs caused
plastic poppets to deteriorate.  In yesterdays digest, Fred Johnson stated,
"Don't store caps in iodophor, because it degrades rubber."

Can anyone explain the reaction taking place?  Can this reaction be
reversed?  I understand that rubber stoppers are cheap and I just need to
get new ones, but I would like to understand what is happening.  Does this
also indicate that plastic fermenters and tubing are chemically
deteriorated over time aside from the expected discoloration, and iodophor
should be used only for short contact times with these items?

Thanks,

Steve

- --

Steve Yavorski
Ambler, Pennsylvania



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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:02:54 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Glenbrew Kits - problem

Does anyone here have any experience with Glenbrew homebrew kits ? They come
in a big 7lb (i think) can that dosnt require the addition of any extra malt
extract or sugar. I mostly brew all grain but make these now and then when i
want some extra beer in a hurry, or for a party etc..

Anyways, to the problem. I have made a few of these (the Winter Warmer,
Trophy Bitter, and Irish Stout).. I boil the kit up with some water, chill,
and pitch dry yeast. Usually the Danstar Nottingham included with the kits
but i will add a packet of fresher yeast as well. A couple of times, they
just haven't started fermenting. The last one I made was a winter warmer
boiled with some cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger and brown sugar to make a holiday
ale. It never fermeted even with aereation before pitching and the addition
of a couple extra packets of yeast. I had it happen once with the Bitter kit
as well( i didnt add anything extra to the recipe). This never happens with
my extract/steeping or all-grain
recipes. I have gone over anythign and i'm totally baffled. The kits and
yeast have not been past their expiry dates.

Has this happened to anyone else or am i cursed with these kits?

Also, the kits include a packet of 'pilsner enzyme' which i throw away, as
im not making a pilsner kit.. does anyone know what this stuff does (is it
the reason for my failures)?

John

Pothole?  Thats luxury!  I have to ferment directly in my mouth.  On brew
day I fill up my mouth with wort in the am and drop a few yeast cells in and
3 hours later I swallow.  Wish I had a pothole to ferment in. -Mike Brennan
on the HBD

"Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson




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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:06:35 -0500
From: "Stephen T Yavorski" <syavorsk at csc.com>
Subject: kegs - sizes, shapes, conversions?

I am currently trying to acquire some kegs, for both serving and to convert
into pots, HLTs, mash tuns, etc..  I have access to an experienced welder.

I understand that there are multiple types of kegs, with multiple uses in
homebrewing. What do you use?

This is what I (think I) know:

Cornelius kegs (soda kegs) - come in 3, 5, 10 gal varieties - pin-lock or
ball-lock, used for serving, conditioning, fermenting.  What kind of
conversions can be performed on them?
Ball tap type - come in half bbl., quarter bbl, sixth bbl - larger ones can
have lids cut off to be converted into kettles, with manifolds and drains
added.
Sankey - come in half bbl., quarter bbl? - two prong tap and wooden bung in
side - Can these be used as a kettle?

Guess I don't know much, which is why I'm trolling for info.

Can they come in aluminum or stainless?  How do you tell - what type of
markings?

To summarize:  What type of kegs do you use? How do you use them
(fermenters, serving, etc.)?  How have you altered them from their original
state?  How do you know what they are made of?

You can respond to me, and I will summarize back to the digest.

Thanks,

Steve

- --

Steve Yavorski
syavorsk at csc.com
Ambler, Pennsylvania



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---