HOMEBREW Digest #4099 Thu 21 November 2002

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  Re: re: Mini kegs and other thoughts (Teresa Knezek)
  More heating/cooling questions (Todd Kenna)
  Re:Blowoff affect flavor??? ("Chad Gould")
  Re: tap a draft or party pig? (Andy Woods)
  First All Grain Batch...No Sparge (Stuart Lay)
  Copper chiller smell??!! (D Perry)
  re: Siphoning/pressure ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Aeration stones. (Wendy & Reuben Filsell)
  Bubblegum ("Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D")
  Splitting the Brew Day into Two Days (courtney03)
  RE: 1056 vs. WLP001 ("Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL")
  re: Conical advantages? (Stacy)" <sgroene at lucent.com>
  Re: tap a draft or party pig? (Mark Kempisty)
  Re: Water Softener Using Potassium Chloride (Jeff Renner)
  Re: "dry" Stout (Jeff Renner)
  WhiteLabs Platinum Series (Jeff Renner)
  Re: 1056 vs. WLP001 (Bill Wible)
  RE: Stirred Mash? (DHinrichs)
  mash pH with soft water versus styles ("Jim Dunlap")
  Bubble Gun Flavor ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: Orval (Paul Edwards)
  Building a Lagering Box ("John Misrahi")
  Re: Re: Orval (Pat Babcock)
  Apparent Rennerian ("Dave and Joan King")
  Anheuser-Busch Information ("Peter Garofalo")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:08:37 -0900 From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com> Subject: Re: re: Mini kegs and other thoughts On or thereabout 11/20/02, Tidmarsh Major thusly: >some of the minikegs available here with commercial beer inside >(Warsteiner comes to mind) have a built in tap and a black bung >with a red spile that twists to vent the keg. Well, here's my current brainstorm: get some of those built-in-gravity-tap mini kegs you're describing, and create a hose adapter to fit on/in the tap... then attach the hose to a proper beer engine. With the beer engine system, it appears all you need on the keg end of the deal is a hose to hook up to the beer engine. The diagrams always show a full size keg laid on its side, with the tap on one built-in taps at the bottom, I don't see why it wouldn't work. If it doesn't work, I can figure out how to store a full-size keg on its side somewhere, and still have a perfectly usable gravity-feed mini keg to use. I'm just pondering whether drinking 5L of Becks is worth it to get the keg, or if I should just order a couple of empty ones... I probably won't have the money left for a full mini keg once I buy the beer engine though. Been looking online for one today. Ouch! - -- :: Teresa Knezek :: teresa at mivox.com http://mivox.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:33:44 -0800 From: Todd Kenna <Todd_K at cats.ucsc.edu> Subject: More heating/cooling questions I also am looking for a heating/cooling controller. I want to use it to control fermentation in a fridge/freezer. My problem is this, My house gets quite cold- to cold for ale fermentation in the winter, but it gets quite warm in the summer- to warm for Ale fermentation. So I am looking for a system which would allow me to set a temperature and maintain it through both heating and cooling. Which would also allow me to maintain both ale and lager fermentation temperatures. I have thought about using an under glass terrarium heating pad with a rheostat for reptiles in the bottom a refrigerator for the heating side, and then using a conventional temperature controller for the cooling side. Although I would prefer a more cohesive system with only one controller. So I could easily set new temperatures for different kinds of yeasts. Does anyone know of such a system? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 00:50:48 -0500 From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Re:Blowoff affect flavor??? > >I want to brew 2.5g batches in a 5g carboy. Because of > >the airspace, I don't need a blowoff tube. However, > >the JOHB states that the blowoff tube, "gets rid of > >excessively bitter hop resins,excess yeast and other > >things that may contribute to hangovers". > >Has anyone ever proved/disproved this? Should I still > >use a blowoff tube? Thanks for any info. > I regularily put 5 - 5.5 gal into a 7 gal fermenter. > and rarely need to use a blowoff tube. If i need to use > one, its because the fermentation was that vigorous. I have never heard of anything that blow off tubes take away, other than a bit of bitterness. (E.g. "excessive hop resins") This can be adjusted in the recipie. I can't see excessive yeast being a *bad* thing! Hangovers may be facilitated by caused by yeast byproducts, e.g. fusel alcohols often get blamed. Byproduct production is largely determined by yeast selection and temperature. I don't think blowoff tubes matter one way or another. > As far as hangovers go, I hear the theory about all malt > beers reduce hangovers compared to adjunct beers. I can't > tell if that one is true either. I doubt it, except for the fact that adjunct beers are "easier to drink" and don't fill up your stomach; some may drink more adjunct beers in a setting. Homebrew itself may be less hangover inclined because of the natural yeast in the product (contributing vitamins that alcohol takes away), but other than that... I agree, the 2.5g in 5g sounds good. That's plenty of space. I wish I knew how to estimate space better. My current batch rode its krausen *right* up to the rim of the neck... geesh. http://tilt.largo.fl.us/dbbc/dbbc012ferment.jpg Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 00:54:46 -0500 From: Andy Woods <awoods at nwc.com> Subject: Re: tap a draft or party pig? James, I've used the Party Pig a few times and they work pretty damn good. Each pig hold 2.25 gallons and requires a seperate pouch that provices the carbonation for the brew (along w/ a little corn sugar). Once you pressurize the system, the system takes 2 weeks to carbonate (i've used it in 10 days and it was solid). There is a little rubber gasket that is used to seperate the bottle from the tap, and is a little thin. It takes a little practice setting it right, but it's not too bad. I've also heard that mason jar gaskets work better. I think the party pigs are a solid alternative to the kegs, and great to travel with. aw *********************** Andy Woods Research Associate Network Computing Magazine http://www.nwc.com *********************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:55:37 -0800 From: Stuart Lay <zzlay at yahoo.com> Subject: First All Grain Batch...No Sparge I have my first all-grain batch finishing in the fermenter. A simple American Ale (14lbs 2 row, 2 lbs Crystal 40, Centennial and Cascade, WLP-001). A significant emotional experience because I've been an extract brewer for two years and because I decided to go no-sparge. I was taken with no-sparge brewing through John Palmer's article in April BYO. Seemed to be the answer for me to move to all grain while keeping a handle on the time required for a brew session. The final piece was an HBD contributor's (sorry I can't remember the name...Kap'n Salty maybe) piece about he mashed one night and brewed the next. So, to get 24 liters finished beer, I mashed the above last Thursday. I used Fix's 40/60/70 schedule for 30 minutes per rest. Started with 14 quarts for dough-in, 9 quarts 210 degree water to get to 60, followed by 20 minutes on the stove to get to 70. Transferred mash from my 7.5 gallon SS pot to a 56 quart Coleman Extreme Cooler/EZ Masher and added the remaining 19 quarts at 185 to get close to a mashout. When I drained the cooler, I got about 8.5 gallons of .042 extract. Wrapped and sealed keg with saran wrap. Friday, I boiled the whole mess and added 1 oz 5.6 Centennial at 60 minutes, 2/3 oz 5.5 Cascade at 45, 1 oz Centennial at 30, 2/3 oz Cascade at 15 and another at end of boil. Cooled to 85, aerated wort with a SS stone, and pitched the yeast. OG: 1.045. Yield 7.75 gallons. 3 quarts waste at the bottom of the keg. Apparent efficiency (if this term means anything re no-sparge brewing) was 69.4%. The temperature in the fermenter broke yesterday so I pulled a sample: FG 1.010. Nice Cascade aroma and smooth malt taste...yumm. Will bottle up Friday or so. My thanks to John Palmer, Ken Schwartz, and Jim Hilbing (Strand Brewers) who all published articles or wrote spreadsheets to help brewers like me move up/into all grain. BTW -- the Schwartz spreadsheet predictions for grain required/gravity etc were accurate to within the accuracy of my measuring equipment. Way cool! Next brew will be a steam beer. Are there other brewers who regularly no-sparge? Lessons learned? stuart zzlay at yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:55:06 -0800 From: D Perry <daperry75 at shaw.ca> Subject: Copper chiller smell??!! I have a copper counter-flow chiller, and recently I have noticed a strange smell coming out of it when in use. Now I have run PBW through it and also stopped the flow so that it would soak inside the chiller, but I am still getting the same smell. I also rinse and re-sanitize the chiller after use with Star San (no affiliation). I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this with a copper coil. PS the smell is a metallic one which leads to believe that it is not a sanitation problem, but hey I have been known to be wrong. Thanks Dave [1937.4, 308] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 07:20:02 -0600 From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at bellsouth.net> Subject: re: Siphoning/pressure Strom from Palo Alto asks, "wouldn't the siphon stop as soon as the pressure in the receiving vessel rose to a certain level (and the pressure in the higher vessel fell to a certain level)?" Perhaps I wasn't clear in my description. By using a jumper between the two gas in ports in addition to the siphon line between the two liquid out ports, the pressure in the two vessels is equalized as the gas forced out of the receiving vessel is pushed into the donor vessel. Like a counter-pressure bottle filler, the siphon takes place at whatever pressure the beer is under, maintaining carbonation and decreasing foaming. Tidmarsh Major Tuscaloosa, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:34:12 +0800 From: Wendy & Reuben Filsell <filsell at myplace.net.au> Subject: Aeration stones. > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:33:21 -0500 > From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com> > Subject: Cleaning aeration stone with alcohol > > I say stick with water and bases as cleaning agents for proteins and lipids. > - -- > Fred L. Johnson > Apex, North Carolina, USA Well now Fred, that's the second suggestion you have shot down so how about just describing the materials methods and rationale you use so the rest of us can benefit from your critiques. Reuben. W.A. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:51:42 -0500 From: "Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D" <lupolds at jhmi.edu> Subject: Bubblegum Beerbuddy asks about Anderson Winter Solstace's bubblegum flavor. I've found this flavor in Belgian ale homebrews. It is some flavor compound from the Belgian yeast. Interestingly, this flavor isn't noticeable in commercially available beers from Belgium. Maybe their fermentation temperatures and conditioning techniques minimize its production? Shawn Lupold Alexandria, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:23:00 est From: courtney03 at iquest.net Subject: Splitting the Brew Day into Two Days Hello HBD: I'm a first-post newbie, so please excuse any breeches in protocol/idiot questions, etc. I'm an all-grain brewer (6+ years), but have been hampered in the number of brews over the years based on long brew days (wife/first child time constrains, and nameless other LAME excuses). I read something somewhere (BYO/Zymurgy) about splitting the brew day into two shorter segments, i.e. mash and sparge one day/evening, and boil/pitch the next day or days). Has anyone tried this technique? Are there any detrimental effects of storing the runoff overnight/several nights? I know that since the boiling will be done the next day that any potential beasties which have gotten in to the pre-boil wort will be nailed in the boil, but are there any flavor 'hits' or other issues to consider doing things this way? I'm also thinking that this technique may be only marginally time-saving since set-up and tear-down times are now present on both days. Just trying to increase my potential batches - any insights are greatly appreciated! Scott Courtney Indy, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:49:48 -0500 From: "Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL" <Arthur.Mcgregor at osd.mil> Subject: RE: 1056 vs. WLP001 Hi All! In HBD # 4098, Dennis Collins asked about the difference in taste between Wyeast 1056 and White Labs WLP001. I also just bought White Labs California Ale Yeast (WLP001) instead of the Wyeast American Ale yeast (#1056) because that is what the Homebrew store had in stock, and I was also told that it was the same as Wyeast #1056, just a different name. I have been using Wyeast #1056 for almost all by brews -- just brewed Batch #205 last weekend :^), and I am satisfied with the results. Anyways, I used the White Labs #WLP001 for a Pale Ale I brewed two weekends ago, and it definitely looks different from Wyeast #1056. The Krausen from the WLP001 is thicker than the Wyeast #1056, and formed a thick yeast cake that floated at the top of the primary. I transferred to the secondary last night (10 days after brewing) and there was still a thick Krausen/yeast cake floating at the top. Normally with the Wyeast #1056, the Krausen has fallen in by then. In fact this morning I checked on the secondary, and the Krausen has reformed, and I had to replace the "S" fermentation lock with a blow-off tube, because it looked like it was getting close to coming up through the fermentation lock! I am interested in how this beer will taste - -- it is one of the beers I am bringing to the office holiday party. Hoppy Brewing, Art McGregor Lorton, Virginia [424.1, 123.3] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:54:15 -0500 From: "Groene, Stacy B (Stacy)" <sgroene at lucent.com> Subject: re: Conical advantages? Henry in Portage writes: "There's been a lot of posts lately about SS conical fermenters. I'm missing the advantage to such a device." Henry, There are several advantages when using a conical, based on my particular brewing circumstances: 1. No need to rack to secondary. (not everyone does this, but most do & I always did) 2. No more cleaning of carboys. That is 6 carboys for a 15 gallon batch (primary & secondary) 3. The conical is extremely easy to clean. 4. No lifting of full carboys. 5. As you mentioned....dump trub & yeast. (and occasionally harvest yeast to repitch) 6. Don't overlook the fun of tinkering with new gadgets & gizmos. This is a tangible part of the hobby for many homebrewers. Due to a significant reduction in the time I have available to brew, I have scaled up to almost entirely 15 gallon batches. The further time savings from not having to rack 3 carboys at a time and clean a total of 6 carboys is enough to justify the expense for me. Obviously, homebrewers or potential homebrewers that are in the market for the your 1 gallon system as their main brewing system would probably not realize these benefits, but the list above are the advantages I get using the conical & there I'm sure there are many others not listed here. Regards, Stacy Groene Columbus, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:26:19 -0500 From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com> Subject: Re: tap a draft or party pig? James Payne asks about Tap-A-Draft verses Party Pig... I have a Tap-A-Draft set-up and love it. My wife does too and she doesn't drink beer. What she likes is that I can have the "bottling" stage done in less than an hour with a lot less mess. One problem I do have is that I feel you really need two people to fill the Tap-A-Draft bottles since they do not have flat bottoms to sit on. The last thing I want to do is drop and spill one of those. One person supports the bottle while the other works the filler and sets it aside. - -- Take care, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:39:09 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Water Softener Using Potassium Chloride John Vaughn <hogbrew at mtaonline.net> writes from Wasilla, AK >I had a water softener installed and am using potassium >chloride to recharge the resin bed. ... Can I use this water for >brewing? I assume I will need to add calcium for the mash. Probably not. It depends on what the anions are in the water - the negatively charged ones like sulfate (SO4-2), bicarbonate (HCO3-1), chloride Cl-1). You exchanged one cation (positively charged), potassium (K+) for one or two others that caused water hardness, calcium (Ca+2) and magnesium (Mg+2). You apparently also got rid of some iron, not sure which form. So, if you still have bicarbonate, you shouldn't brew with it, at least not pale beers. The alkalinity of bicarbonate (often expressed as carbonate for convenience) needs to be balanced by the acidity of dark grains. I'm not sure what high levels of potassium might do in water. As John Palmer writes in his book How to Brew (available online at http://www.howtobrew.com/), "In general, you should never use softened water for mashing." You might try aerating, boiling and decanting your water. That's what I do. It precipitates out the bicarbonate as calcium carbonate (limestone) and judging by the tan color of the precipitate, it also takes out the small amount of iron I have. Then you would add calcium as gypsum or CaCl2. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:01:22 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: "dry" Stout Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com> writes from up in Alaska (this must be my day for answering Alaskans): >Well, I actually meant "dry" as in "alcohol free"... heheh. The kit >was labeled "Irish Stout" so I don't know if that's what you'd >typically call dry flavor-wise or not. > >The kit itself was 7lbs of extract, plus a bag of malto dextrin ... Aha! There the problem. Malto-dextrin. Lose it. It is a non-fermentable sugar that gives some body, sweetness and raises the finishing specific gravity (since it can't ferment). It probably fermented pretty much as far as it was going to, depending on the amount of malto-dextrin. So you made a sweet stout. You might ask the HB shop (assuming they put the kit together) why they included malto-dextrin in an Irish stout, which is normally considered to be a dry (non-sweet) stout. Of course, it there was only a little, then you may still have not gotten a complete fermentation. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:15:20 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: WhiteLabs Platinum Series "Don Van Valkenburg" <dvanv at earthlink.net> wrote: >Lovers of Orval might want to try using a new yeast available from White >labs soon. It will be one of their Platinum series available (I think) in >January under the name of Bastogne. I obtained a vile of this yeast on a >tour of Orval while on a Belgium tour last year. I sent it to White labs >with the hope/expectation that they might make it available to the >homebrewing community - and they did. Nice job, Don. The HB Orval fans will appreciate this. There is another Platinum yeast available this January/February that I had a hand in obtaining - Essex ale yeast WLP022, I believe. This is from Ridley's Brewery http://www.ridleys.co.uk . Their mild took a prize ten years ago or so in the GBBF. A friend of mine is the CAMRA liaison officer to Ridleys. When we visited our friends three years ago, we had a VIP tour and I brought back some yeast. I've been brewing on and off with a cleaned up sample of it and like it. Very English in flavor profile, and a super top cropper. Then our friends visited us this spring and brought another sample along which Chris White had said he would be interested in. They've cleaned it up (these brewery in England never seem to have a really pure yeast, but they just keep on repitching it without much problem if the ale is drunk quickly). If you try it, please let me know what you think of it. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:17:10 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: 1056 vs. WLP001 I, too, am a faithful user of Wyeast 1056. The problem is that the major homebrew store suppliers have stopped carrying Wyeast, and have all switched to White Labs. I don't understand why its a "one or the other" situation, but it is. I guess its a refrigerator space issue on the part of the suppliers. We used to be able to order Wyeast a few tubes at a time. White Labs had (and still does have) a "Freshness Assurance" program, where they ship a full set of tubes to the stores once a quarter. For participating in this program, shops are permitted to return a percentage of expired tubes they don't sell. White Labs also provides free yeast selection posters, offers recipe sheets, has superior packaging, and provides a number of other benefits to shops and suppliers. Wyeast, on the other hand, has sat on their success as the original yeast suppier, and does not offer any of these programs. They've had numerous packaging issues, and they still have some problems. I don't know why they even continue to make smack packs, because nobody buys them anymore, at least not in my store. We live in the age of convenience, and pitchable yeast is another example. God forbid we should have to actually plan a brew day and smack a pack 3 or 4 days in advance. Wyeast does not have any programs that benefit the stores or the suppliers. As I was told by one of my sales reps "They don't have a pulse." This is why everybody is switching to White Labs. I do continue to stock and sell Wyeast, but its more difficult for me to do so now, since I have to deal directly with them to do it. They are in Oregon, and I am in Philadelphia. And they have no return programs, so I have to be much more careful about what I buy. On the positive side, I have found their staff to be very accommodating. I placed a last minute order, added to it, and they handled it well. They made it very easy for me to open an account with them, and I placed an order at the same time, which was delivered exactly when they said it would be. It's unfortunate. I like Wyeast, I believe they make a good product, and I also believe competition is a good thing. I sincerely hope that Wyeast can turn around. I would not like to see there be only one yeast supplier. I like having choices. But loss of sales to the major suppliers like that HAS to hurt big time. As to the issue of whether 1056 and WLP001 are the same yeast, I've personally made the same recipe with each. I thought the resulting beers were very different. Therefore, my personal opinion is that they're NOT the same yeast. The previous owner of this shop told me I was crazy, he says they are exactly the same. (?) Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:53:43 -0600 From: DHinrichs at Quannon.com Subject: RE: Stirred Mash? >From: "Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D" <lupolds at jhmi.edu> >Subject: Stirred Mash? >I'm relatively new to all grain brewing and have a question about >extraction efficiency. The more batches I brew, the worse my extraction >efficiency. I've improved my efficiency a bit by slowing down the >sparge to about 2 quarts every 5 minutes; however, I still can't reach >my initial extraction efficiencies. Looking back in my notes, I noticed >that I stirred my mash a little in the first few batches. It makes >sense that stirring would help with extraction, but I've heard not to do >it because of oxidation. Yet, we want to oxidize the boiled wort. >What's the deal? Does everyone stir their mash? How much? >Thanks for your help, >Shawn Lupold >Alexandria, VA A very gentle mixing of the mash during the sparging process will increase efficiency. This gentle mixing should be done in a way to avoid stirring the whole grain bed up as you do not want to mess with the filtering characteristics of the grain bed. The advice to avoid stirring your mash or the collected wort while hot is to reduce oxygen pickup which could lead to problems later in the beers life. My practice is to gently drag a large spoon thru the mash a few times, several times during the sparge. The spoon will only penetrate the grain bed about 1/3 of the depth. This technique was suggested to me by a winner of multiple gold medals winner. Other things to consider in regards to efficiency: -grain crush, the courser the crush the less efficient -Cold sparge temps -Too fast of run off -Channeling of the grain bed during sparge (mixing can help in this regard) Dave in Minnetonka, MN Currently fermenting -5 gallons Kolsh -5 gallons Dark German Alt Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:14:01 -0800 From: "Jim Dunlap" <jdpils at attbi.com> Subject: mash pH with soft water versus styles I share Mike's curiosity. I live in the Seattle area where the water is very soft. Without any water adjustments, I have historically found that all light colored recipes such as German hefeweizen and pilseners will have a mash pH on the high end 5.5 - 5.7 whereas Porters, Dunkels, Bocks and Maerzens will drop below 5.0. IPA, ESB, and amber beers will be about normal, 5.0 - 5.5. The acid in the darker grains helps bring the pH down, sometimes too far. I used a good quality 4 - 7 range pH paper. They correlate well to the pH meter. I just bought a pH meter and found I am getting my tap water at about 8.4, which seems higher than in the past. It also appears that the hardness as CaCO3 and Ca content have double in the past two years. I am no water chemist, however, I think these changes may be due to new federal filtration requirements placed on water utilities. For light beers, I am going to now treat my sparge and mash water to about 6.5 - 7.0 by adding lactic acid, but also thought it would be interesting to try the acid malt. Even though it would seem unneccessary the high pHof our water prevents proper acidulation. For me I would guess at 2.5% acid malt. For English Ales, IPA's I usually add some CaSO4 to the sparge water (0.5gms/gallon), since the mash pH is always 5.3 - 5.5 For the darker beers I still need to figure out how to raise the pH some. Is it more effective to raise the pH with CaCO3 to the base water first or mash water? Are there other methods? It seems for any case I should be dropping my sparge pH with lactic acid or brewing salts may help. By the way the water here has 20ppm Ca, ,1 ppm Mg, 1.4ppm SO4, hardness ~22ppm, and alkalinity 12 ppm, both measured by CaCO3. Cheers, Jim Dunlap Woodinville WA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:18:13 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Bubble Gun Flavor : David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>writes: >If you want a bubblegum flavor, use Wyeast 1214 and let the temperature >get into the mid 70s. You'll get that flavor! As far as Winter >Solstice goes, the spices have just seemed totally overdone the last >couple of times I've bought any - and they don't seem to mellow very >quickly. Frankly, its the only one of their beers I don't consider top >notch. Luckily, I'm not required to drink it, but I'll probably try a >bottle again this year. Aha, what does Harsh know? You want bubble gun? I mean do you really, really want bubble gum? Four words: "Red Star Bread Yeast." Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:16:37 -0500 From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net> Subject: Re: Orval Don Van Valkenburg was able to obtain a sample of Brasserie d'Orval's primary yeast, and it'll be available from White Labs. I can't wait!!! I visited Orval in 1995, had a wondeful tour. Didn't get any yeast samples but did get a printed handout that includes spec's for this great beer. - ------------------------ Original Gravity: 13.4 deg Plato Color: 22 EBC Bitterness: 32 EBC (can somebody translate these last two to SRM and IBU?) Malt is French, Dutch and German Pale Lager malt 86.5 percent Caravienne 13.5 percent Kettle Hops are Hallertau and Styrian Goldings. Orval is dry hopped with Styrian Goldings Chipped pale candi sugar is used in the kettle (no amount given) Bottles are primed with liquid invert sugar Yeast: An ale strain is used in the primary fermenter 5 different yeasts are added to the secondary (no specific info, except that I was told one of them was a Brettanomyces Strain) The primary fermenter yeast strain is used for bottling. Beer is bottle-conditioned for 6 weeks prior to release to market. Drink & cellaring Temperature: 12 to 14 deg C (53 to 57 deg F) Sell-by date: 5 years after bottling - ---------------------- Contrary to some clone recipes, Orval DOES NOT have any coriander in it. My wife and I were treated to 3 year old Orval in the manager's office after our very extensive tour. And we were given a box of six Orval glasses, a couple of Orval bottle openers and a cookbook (in French) featuring recipes, including ice cream, using Orval. Now that Don's gotten the yeast to us, everybody should give an Orval clone a try. Thanks, Don! Cheers! Paul Edwards Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:43:17 -0500 From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> Subject: Building a Lagering Box Hi all I have a new project in mind. Rather than making room inside for an extra fridge, i'd like to build a lagering box that takes advantage of the natural cold and just has a heater to keep the beer from getting too cold. I have a few thoughts, but basically i'm thinking of some kind of plywood box with styrafoam or maybe fiberglass insulation. Just a simple hinge or latch to keep raccoons out ;-) It will sit on a high balcony so i'm not worried about 2 legged 'raccoons'. For the heating part (a) light bulb painted black. don't know if it can generate enough heat, but i think in a small insulated enclosed space, it might be able to do it. or (b) small electric space heater I figure it will need some kind of controller...i know they sell gadgets you can plug a fridge into to maintain lagering temperatures. Could it work like this - sort of in reverse? I appreciate any suggestions on the matter, John Pothole? Thats luxury! I have to ferment directly in my mouth. On brew day I fill up my mouth with wort in the am and drop a few yeast cells in and 3 hours later I swallow. Wish I had a pothole to ferment in. -Mike Brennan on the HBD "Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:13:12 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Re: Re: Orval Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your trappist ale... With all this hoopla over the Orval yeast being brought into captivity, I am reminded that the Orval recipe has changed in recent years. Are they at least still using the same yeast? BTW, I've had great luck in cloning Orval using the Salmo Trappist recipe in one of those AHA beer recipe books (I think it's in "Winners Circle"?), using Wyeast 1214 for the main ferment, and then innoulatng with the dregs of a bottle of Orval in teh secondary. Yummy! (Unfortunately I can put my hands on neither the log from that, nor the book...) - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" - Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:22:47 -0500 From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Subject: Apparent Rennerian >From the 11/18 post, John & Joy Vaughn are from Wasilla, AK [2938, 320] Apparent Rennerian I have to say, that's a mighty big Apparent Rennerian ! I see it doesn't matter much if you're a long way from the center of Home Brewing, isn't the internet great! Dave King, the Hop Head from BIER [396, 89] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:27:27 -0500 From: "Peter Garofalo" <pgarofa1 at twcny.rr.com> Subject: Anheuser-Busch Information Yesterday, I had the distinct pleasure of a guided tour of the local Anheuser-Busch brewery, in Baldwinsville, NY. The tour guides (the brewmaster greeted us, but could only stay a short while) were friendly, knowledgeable, and full of answers to homebrewers' questions. I'll brain dump some of the more pertinent points that stuck: They routinely add a solution of aqueous zinc sulfate to the brewkettle, to provide critical yeast nutrients (well, minerals). I don't know how much they add, but there was a 2-liter Erlenmeyer flask at the mouth of a 1000-barrel brewkettle. The solution was labeled 22.1 % W/V. Gypsum is added with several of the hop additions (from large plastic bins, a hundred pounds or so at a time). I inquired why gypsum would be necessary with calcium-rich Lake Ontario water (carbonate hard), and was told that the gypsum prevented buildup of calcium oxalate (beerstone). It must work, as there was none present. Hops are added in several additions, and about 8-10 varieties are blended to smooth out variations in different types, and even field-to-field variations. A figure of 10-11 IBU was quoted, so they must have very sensitive palates. Speaking of which, many of the employees double as tasters. Beer is tasted at many stages, but no taster is asked to do more than two samples a day. Augie is regarded as a tasting god. The mystery of the air stripper was explained to me by the brewmaster. The hot wort is sent along a set of tubes in a laminar flow regime. The air flow strips DMS and other sulfur compounds, but does not mix with the gently flowing beer enough to cause HSA. They take HSA *very* seriously, and notice it right away. It is a dead giveaway that they have a leak, for one thing. It also ruins the shelf life, to paraphrase the brewmaster. Also, it happens very quickly, so a short hot air exposure is bad. They are very fussy about the rice, insisting on its freshness. It costs as much or more that the malt, depending on market variances. The beechwood aging is actually accomplished on small slats (some may remember from St. Louis, at the MCAB). They pre-treat the wood to remove tannins, and wash it with very hot water between uses. It is a lot of messing around, and they feel it is worth it. No good substitute has been discovered. Also, the wood disintegrates after only a few uses. Here's a nugget: Budweiser and Michelob (plus a few others) are kraeusened! Also, rice is used in Bud and Michelob, but corn grits are used in Natural Light. Fermentation takes place in 5 days (primary), followed by centrifugation of the yeast, 21 days on beechwood (in tanks large enough to fit my house), and another few days in the final bright beer tank, which has some cute name that eludes me now. Anyway, that's about all that leaps to mind. My thanks to those at A-B who were so gracious and informative. I hope this is interesting to others, as well. Cheers, Peter Garofalo Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
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