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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  turkey fryer ("chad. . . .")
  Acid fluff (EdgeAle)
  Oh Turducken! ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Turkey Fryers and Brewery Planning (Bob Hall)
  YCKCo (Randy Ricchi)
  cleaning aeration stones (Randy Ricchi)
  Glucose Syrup? ("Jodie Davis")
  I Can't Believe What I Did (Kevin Elsken)
  Frying Turkey (jodysdad)
  Fried Turkey Safety ("Tom Clark")
  gas on secondary (Marc Tiar)
  Australian Cream Ale (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Using banana juice (=?iso-8859-1?q?greg?=)
  RE: Yeast slant recipes ("Doug Hurst")
  bottle conditioned commercial beer (Teresa Knezek)
  AHA Club-Only Competition ("Mark Tumarkin")
  re: iodophor and plastic/rubber - What happens? ("C.D. Pritchard")


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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:07:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "chad. . . ." <eclectic_solitaire at yahoo.com>
Subject: turkey fryer

Why cook a turkey in the oven anyway? Down here in
louisiana we either smoke them or fry them. As far
back as memory serves we've fried turkeys. Of course I
never purchased a turkey fryer. I have a fish
cooker/gumbo pot that works just fine. (same thing)

The turkey/duck/chicken is known as a Turducken and
while expensive, are positively delicious.
butterfly-debone a chicken and a duck.
season to taste.
stuff the chicken into the duck then stuff the duck
into a turkey.



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:57:58 EST
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: Acid fluff

HBD,

I mixed up some acid a few months ago (concetrated lactic acid and 
reverse-osmosis water) to get a pH=2 solution to use for adjusting the pH of 
my mash water which I stored in a glass bottle. Now there are some large 
strange balls of white fluff at the bottom of the bottle. Does anyone know 
what they are? Is the solution safe to use?

Thanks,
Dana Edgell

- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, Oceanside CA
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle


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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:52:16 -0800
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: Oh Turducken!

Ah, but it is real!
Just do a search on "turducken"...
http://ismybrain.com/~jsalmon/turducken.html

But the funny thing is that it doesn't "originate" in Cajun 
country.  Apparently, one of the oldest recipes written in English (well, I 
guess I've heard that one of them is for beer, just to get this back to the 
purpose of HBD, but another one) is for "A large fowl into the cavity of 
which is stuffed another fowl..." and so on down to a partridge or sparrow 
or something.  Those middle-ages Britons knew how to make an 
artery-clogging feast!

cheers,
mike

At 12:32 AM 11/30/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Now, I got a response to my post from a HBD lurker in Singapore. His buddies
>told him about putting a chicken inside the turkey. And even going further,
>they told him about stuffing the turkey with a duck that was in turn stuffed
>with a small chicken. Now, apparently these guys are from New Orleans & I
>believe the whole turkey frying thing started with the Louisiana Cajuns, but
>I'm pretty sure these birds aint gonna fly.



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:19:25 -0500
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net>
Subject: Turkey Fryers and Brewery Planning

Hello All,

Deep fried turkeys are great, though I don't own a fryer myself (Phil, I 
actually prefer them natural with no injections ... add the cranberries 
later). Just a note to be extremely cautious. I've had friends burned; 
slowly lowering a turkey into the pot of boiling oil is a tricky venture. 
J.B. Walleye's Brewpub on Middle Bass Island (Lake Erie, Ohio) burned to 
the ground this fall when employees dropped a turkey into a fryer on the 
back deck. The oil overflowed, caught fire, and the whole place went up in 
flames. I had a ringside seat from atop Perry's Monument on South Bass 
Island where I was a ranger.

On a "constructive" note, one of my brewing buddies just broke ground for a 
new home .... large house with full basement. We've been kicking around 
some ideas, and my question to the collective ... if you could start a new 
basement brewery from scratch, what would you plan? Any tips on equipment, 
arrangement, plumbing, etc. would be appreciated and fun to play with (at 
least until the compromises begin). BTW, he's currently a 5 gal partial 
mash brewer on his way to all-grain.

Thanks,
Bob Hall, Napoleon, OH
[73.7, 126.8]



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:26:41 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: YCKCo

Dave Reynolds mentioned he had some strains of yeast from Yeast Culture Kit 
Company, but didn't know what they were. My records show A61 is Royal Oak, 
A78 is DeDolle .

I recently placed an order with YCKCo, and found out Dan McConnell was 
closing down operations that week. This was a real blow to me, since his 
product quality and selection was outstanding.

Of all the strains he had that I have tried, the one I will really miss is 
the Brugge wit yeast, A41.
Does anyone know if any of the other yeast suppliers have the Brugge 
strain? It makes an outstanding Tripel.



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:54:09 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: cleaning aeration stones

After all this talk of cleaning aeration stones, I decided it was time to 
do a little maintenance on mine.
I've used my aeration stone for probably 100 batches, and my 
cleaning/sanitation regimen has been to thoroughly flush with water after 
use, air dry storage, and then just before using I would drop the stone and 
tubing in boiling water, cover, remove from heat and let stand for at least 
10 minutes.

I figured by not boiling, but steeping in near-boiling temp water, I would 
reduce the risk of mineral deposits clogging the stone.

It seems to have been a good method, since it was only recently that I 
noticed while rinsing the stone that the water no longer seeped out on it's 
own, but had to be blown out of the stone. Looking at the inside of the 
hose barb I could see a white film, which was hard enough that it  couldn't 
be scratched with a metal probe.

Further, for quite some time I have been aware of a rust-colored area on a 
small section of the stone. It wasn't rusty in the usual rough, crusty way 
I think of rust, but just a glossy, rust or copper coloring on the surface 
of the stone.

Anyway, I decided on a two-pronged attack on the stone; clean for organic 
deposits, then for mineral deposits.

First, I pulled the stone apart (the barbed fitting easily pulls out from 
the hollow, cylindrical stone). I then made a strong solution of bleach and 
hot water. I soaked the parts in this solution for 15 to 20 minutes, then 
flushed them out thoroughly with water. I let them air dry overnight.

The next day I noticed that the white film on the inside of the hose-barb 
was still there, as was the rusty spot. Water would not seep through the 
stone strictly by gravity, either.
I don't think the bleach solution did anything to improve the stone 
cleanliness, so I figure I didn't have a problem with organic build up in 
or on the stone.

I then poured a little Lime-away in a glass and dropped the stone in. I let 
this sit overnight, probably around 12 hours. I then took the parts out, 
flushed vigorously, and voila!
The rust was gone, the white film was gone, and water seeped through the 
stone by gravity alone, without having to be forced through. The stainless 
is as bright as I have ever seen it.



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:50:57 -0500
From: "Jodie Davis" <jodie at ga.prestige.net>
Subject: Glucose Syrup?

I'm making Spitfire Premium Ale from "Clone Brews" shortly. For priming
the recipe calls for wheat DME and glucose syrup. Found something (no
help in the book) that leads me to believe this is corn syrup. Is this
correct?

Thanks in advance,

Jodie Davis off to do her first full boil ;)



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:14:28 -0500
From: Kevin Elsken <k.elsken at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: I Can't Believe What I Did

Was transferring 8 gallons of a Dubbel to the secondary ( a 5 gallon and
a 3 gallon corny keg).  Put some iodophor (12.5 ppm concentration)  in
each keg, and swirled it around for a few minutes. Opened the 3 gallon
keg, drained it, filled with beer.  Grabbed 5 gallon keg, filled it with
beer (notice something missing  here?).  After finishing, I was draining
my iodophor back into its storage jug and thought to myself, "Self, you
sure used alot of iodophor!".  Aaaaaaargh.  I did not drain the
sanitizer from the 5 gallon keg .

So I figured I have no more than 16 oz. of  12.5 ppm sanitizer in a 5
gallon keg. That is about 2.5% of sanitizer by volume, or about 0.3 ppm
iodine in the beer.

Anyone else ever pull this particular bonehead stunt?  Any chance the
beer will be drinkable at some point?  I sampled both kegs and the
contaminated sample did taste funny, but of course the beer is still
young.  I am planning to leave these beers in the secondary for 4 weeks,
at least, so I do have time on my side.  One option I suppose, is
diluting the 5 gallons with the 3 gallons that is not contaminated, but
I would rather have three good gallons that eight so-so gallons.

On the plus side this is a Belgian beer, so no matter what it tastes
like, I can probably find an example to match!

Regards,

Kevin Elsken
Little Boy Brewery
North Strabane, PA
[A few hours South and East of Jeff]




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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:50:42 -0500 (EST)
From: jodysdad at starchefs.com
Subject: Frying Turkey

First let me say that I am a former chef and know a thing or two about 
food.  This Thursday I had the honor of sampling a fried turkey for the 
first time.  It was indeed, all it was advertised to be.  I believe that 
deep frying has gotten quite a bad rap from the media, who has ironically 
featured fried turkey in every possible way this past week!  This is (as 
usaual) simply a misunderstanding of what deep frying is and a lack of 
knowledge of how to do it properly.  Cooking, in any form, is simply the 
transfer of energy (thermal) to the food product in order to alter its 
properties, rendering it more appealing, flavorful, digestable, and free of 
food-borne pathogens.  Oil, is simply a medium through which that energy is 
transferred.  Other mediums of course, are water, (both liquid and steam) 
and air (roasting, baking, grilling, etc.)  Bad deep-frying is bad only 
when done incorrectly.  The trick being to maintain the correct 
temperature.  Since the properties of oil allow it be heated up quickly, it 
also allows it cool off quickly.  The problems occur when there isn't 
sufficient heat energy to keep the oil at a high enough temperature to sear 
the surface of what is being fried.  When the burner is not powerful 
enough, the temperature of the oil drops dramatically when a room 
temperature or even colder product is added to the oil.  Since this does 
not sear the surface of the product, the oil just soaks into the product 
and leaves you with soggy, greasy, and artery-clogging food.  When done 
properly, the oil does its job of transfering the heat and is simply 
drained off after the food is done.  Sort of like lager yeast, it does its 
job and then moves on.  So in essence, frying a turkey serves the same 
function as roasting, only there is no place for the moisture in the meat 
to escape, therefore it is trapped within the meat, thus producing a 
juicier product.  I would say however, that frying a turkey is not "better" 
than traditional roasting!  They are merely two different methods producing 
two different results.  Each requiring certain skills and techniques to 
ensure a palatable result.  My "chef's opinion" is that it is "easier" to 
acheive a juicy bird when frying but that it is still quite possible with 
proper roasting technique (which is actually much more difficult than the 
everyday cook realizes!)  In fact, I would go out on a limb and say that 
roasting birds is one of the most difficult and challenging cooking 
techniques to do properly!  Bon appetit.

Michael Bock
Columbus, Ohio

No apparent rennarian, (With all due respect to Jeff, I refuse to believe 
that Ann Arbor is the center of anything!)  Go Bucks!



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:22:31 -0500
From: "Tom Clark" <rtclark at citynet.net>
Subject: Fried Turkey Safety


I have fried several turkeys. People tell me it is the very best they have
ever eaten. It is very moist and tasty, yet not the least bit oily. The
first knowledge I had of this technique was with the late Justin Wilson, the
most famous Cajun chef in the country at the time. This was long before
Walmart began selling the equipment. I bought mine at Lowe's. Currently,
Sam's Club seems to have the best price on an all stainless unit.

There are definitely risks involved. so, to safely proceed you must assume
that there is a real danger of fire. Therefor, never cook close to a
building, let alone inside. Wear enough clothing to protect yourself from
splatters because it will splatter when you first lower the bird into the
pot. Long pants, long sleeves, an apron, shoes and socks and insulated mitts
are the minimum.

When immersing the raw bird in water to determine the amount of oil needed,
put the bird in a plastic bag first. This will keep you from getting so much
extra water inside the carcass.

NEVER put a FROZEN bird into hot oil, it may literally explode.

Place the cooker on a level, solid surface.

Keep pets and children well away from the area where you are cooking. The
oil will stay hot for a long time after you are finished cooking. I cook at
325 - 335 degrees F. For those of you down under, this is 162 - 168 C.
Peanut oil works best because it will withstand high temperatures better
than most other vegetable oils.

Don't get into the beer too much until after you finish cooking. You
certainly cannot afford to be the least bit tipsy.

Turn the fire off while lowering the bird into the oil. This way, if you do
have a spill, you are less likely to have a fire. Lower the bird into the
hot oil very slowly to allow the steam to escape and the oil to settle down
a bit before proceeding further. The hot oil will gusher up through
the center of the carcass due to any moisture that is present being
instantly turned into steam. It will settle down in a few minutes.

Do not put the lid tightly on the pot while cooking. I leave my thermometer
attached to the rim of the pot and it holds the lid up a bit. This reduces
splattering of hot oil.

3 to 3.5 minutes per pound. Larger birds require lower temperatures and
longer cooking times. Internal temperature of the meat should be 180 - 190
Degrees F.

Put down plenty of newspapers before you remove the bird from the oil. It
will drip. Allow it to cool for about 20 minutes before carving to keep the
moisture inside the meat.

Proceed with caution and you will be enjoying the best turkey you ever
tasted.

Regards

Tom Clark





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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:26:27 -0800
From: Marc Tiar <marc at tiar.reno.nv.us>
Subject: gas on secondary

Greetings to all,

Although I've kegged once or twice before, I've bottled most everything, 
but now I'm slowly migrating to the status of bottle-free brewer.  Need 
some advice on the following.

I've got a (hopefully) tasty spiced holiday ale in secondary in a cornie 
keg currently, to be dispensed at a christmas party next month.  Brewed 
exactly 2 weeks ago.  It's oddly been a very slow gradual fermentation, 
didn't really take off for a couple days, nothing too violent, then bubbled 
steadily for a week.  Some combination of factors such as low temps and a 
small starter probably contributed to that.  But I digress...

I don't really like the quick-carbonating method of higher pressure and 
rocking the keg for a couple hours on the day it's to be drunk.  I also 
don't really want to transfer it to another keg, exposing it to air again 
and reducing my volume a little more (can't get every last drop!), but I do 
know that I'm going to have some amount of sediment.  Although a lot was 
left behind in primary, I did see a lot going through the siphon into 
secondary.  So, this situation is calling for CO2 being applied pretty soon 
to give it time to carbonate before the party.  But it's still 
fermenting.  Is this a problem?  Obviously the airlock comes off and poppet 
goes into place.  If I turn the CO2 up to 10-12lbs, should I have concerns 
about how much more pressure the continuing fermentation will create?  How 
will my regulator handle this?  What's the effect on the process?  Do yeast 
perform well under pressure or will it cause bad effects?   Oh yeah, I'm a 
bad lazy brewer and haven't taken any hydrometer readings from this batch.  :-(

Thanks to all for tips, both in the past and present.  Keep the knowledge 
flowing.

Marc Tiar
Reno NV
[1874.4, 276.4] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:40:32 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: Australian Cream Ale

I have been experimenting with Flaked Corn, and have just made an
"Australian Cream Ale".  It generally follows the CAP that Jeff has
revived, but with the WhiteLabs Australian Ale yeast.   I just tasted it
and it is quite good, for a lighter ale.  If anyone wants the recipe I will
send...

 ..Darrell






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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:50:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?greg?= <invalid76 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Using banana juice

Has anyone ever used banana juice?  it's for a mead,
so you can quit thinking i'm crazy.  i was just
wondering how fermentable it is.  using 1 gallon of
banana juice, 8 ibs of honey, 1 ib of DME, we got a
reading of 1.074  

does that look about right?



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:44:40 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Yeast slant recipes

Wally writes:

"then they [yeast slants] accumulate a fair amount of liquid in the
bottom of the vial (I store them upright)."

I think you're getting an inordinate amount of condensation.  Some
condensation will always occur, but it can be minimized.  Try making
your agar solution in a container other than the slant tube.  Autoclave
it, then let it cool to around 50 C (120  F) before pouring into your
sterile slant tubes.   Agar solidifies around 45 C (114 F).  You don't
want to imerse a thermometer into the solution.  Test the temperature by
comparing it to hot tap water.  This procedure should help reduce the
amount of condensation.

Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL

"Aye, now that's a wee drop of the creature."



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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:41:36 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: bottle conditioned commercial beer

An interesting development I noted at the liquor store the other 
day... Deschutes Brewing Co. (makers of Black Butte Porter among 
other excellent northwest microbrews) is bottle conditioning their 
beer now!

I don't remember ever seeing that when I drank Deschutes beers 
regularly, but when I looked at the packaging the other day, it had a 
little note on the 6pck about how "traditional bottle conditioning" 
left a fine layer of yeast in the bottles. I even picked up a bottle 
and peered closely at it's bottom, to make sure. ;-)
- -- 
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
                      -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 08:46:38 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: AHA Club-Only Competition

Hey y'all,

We made it through Turkey Day and the next huge world-class event on the
calendar is the AHA Club-Only Competition. Well, maybe not everyone's
calendar....cause the judging is less than two weeks away, the entry deadline
is coming up quickly; but so far the entries are just trickling in. I know
everyone procrastinates till the last minute, but hey it is the last minute.
So, hopefully you've already chosen whose Fruit or Spice/Herb/Vegetable Beer
is going to represent your club. It's time to package up your entry & ship it
off.

Here's the critical info - our website is http://hbd.org/hogtown/ and you can
register online at http://www.hordsoffun.com/hbc/regwiz.asp?w=0A0B091F1C

Please register online and ship off your entry asap.

thanks,

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL

AHA Fruits & Veggies Club-Only Competition
When: Dec 14 2002 - Gainesville, FL
Who: Open to all AHA Registered Clubs, 1 entry per club.
Styles: Categories 21 Fruit Beer and 22 Spice/Herb/Vegetable Beer.
Sponsoring Club: Hogtown Brewers of Gainesville, FL.
Entry Deadline: 12/09/02.
Fees: $5.00.
Judging: 12/14/02.
Ship Entries to:

Wayne Smith
5327 CR 346 E.
Micanopy, FL 32667

Contact: Dave Perez Phone: 352-316-6796
Email: perez at gator.net

*** Please remember that both categories require that you specify the
underlying style as well as the Fruit, Spice, Vegetable, or Herb used.***

For more information about AHA Club only competitions, please visit the AHA
website http://www.beertown.org/AHA/Clubs/clubcomp.htm






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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 06:56:42
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: iodophor and plastic/rubber - What happens?

Stephen T Yavorski posted quite awhile back:

   I recently have had two carboys stored (for approximately two months)
   completely full of iodophor solution and capped with rubber stoppers. 
   The solution was in contact with the rubber.  When I went to use the 
   carboys, the bottom of the rubber stopper was coated with a black 
   crusty substance.  It looked like mold, but was hard, crusty, and 
   appeared to be fused with the rubber stopper.

I don't know what the process is that causes the stopper to corrode, but
putting the stopper in a sandwich bag before stuffing it in the carboy
eliminates the corrosion.


c.d. pritchard     cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



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