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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Feeding Spent Grain to Horses (Teresa Knezek)
  RE: Feeding Spent Grain to Horses ("Jodie Davis")
  Canadian CFC Alternative ("Drew Avis")
  Re: recirculation troubles (Jeff Renner)
  Quick carbonation (Randy Ricchi)
  Electric Brewing ("Drew Avis")
  Re: Quick carbonation (Jeff Renner)
  swirling in active fermentation from _____? ("Beer Phantom")
  Diacetyl rest question ("Mark Linton")
  where to get parts for march pumps? (Alan McKay)
  quick carb method ("Todd M. Snyder")
  Re: DME/Grain ("Houseman, David L")
  Ayinger yeast, now available (Marc Sedam)
  Cider clearing.. how much? ("Eyre")
  Mash chemistry ("C Cameron")


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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:50:12 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Feeding Spent Grain to Horses

On or thereabout 12/6/02, Bernd Neumann spoke thusly:
>Is it possible to feed spent brewing grains to horses
>(in moderation of course)? I was wondering if it was
>unhealthy/bad/ or otherwise not good.

When my stepfather used to homebrew years ago, I would bring the 
spent grains out to our horses when they were still warm... didn't 
bother mixing them with anything, and the horses absolutely loved it. 
They'd come running as soon as they smelled it.
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://www.mivox.com/

Existence gives things purpose,
but emptiness makes them useful.
	-- Dao De Jing 11


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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:54:49 -0500
From: "Jodie Davis" <jodie at ga.prestige.net>
Subject: RE: Feeding Spent Grain to Horses

> Is it possible to feed spent brewing grains to horses
> (in moderation of course)? I was wondering if it was unhealthy/bad/ or

> otherwise not good.

>According to the Lovely Kim's horse's vet, yup! Mix it in with his
regular >feed. Be sure to not let it sour, though.

LOL! Not unlike a bran mash which we made for our horses about once a
week in the winter. Nothing like an icy winter day in a cozy barn, a
horse munching away in a steamy feed tub. Happiness is!

Of course these days my compost pile is the recipient of spent grains.

Jodie Davis



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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:49:57 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Canadian CFC Alternative

Larry Kress is weighing the American CFC alternatives.  Larry, I've used
neither of these chillers, though I almost bought one until I calculated
total cost with shipping, customs fees, taxes, and exchange = and it came
out to over $200!  Then I copied a CFC local homebrewer Patrick Brochu
invented called the "ChillyWilly" - total cost was ~$50 (in Loonies, not
Greenbacks).  Consider it the cheap Canadian CFC alternative.  There are at
least five variations of this chiller in use in and around Ottawa (and one
in S. Ontario), and so far the design has proven very effective.  You can
check out the design at: http://pcbroch.homeip.net/chiller.html

Cheers!
Drew Avis ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca


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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:47:34 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: recirculation troubles

Reuben Filsell <filsell at myplace.net.au> writes from Western Australia:

>1. If your false bottom is more than 15mm above the bottom of the tun you
>will always have trouble as this causes a pressure differential that
>compacts your mash.

Never say always.  You are just inviting some smart a$$ to disagree.

Here I am, reporting for duty!

My false bottom is 1.25 in (32 mm) off the bottom and I have no 
trouble getting clear wort in my RIMS with a few minutes of 
recirculation.  I double mill most malts and get good efficiency.

I'm not sure what pressure differential you are speaking of.  Can you 
elaborate, and say how it is greater with a higher false bottom?

Mash tuns made from converted Sankeys typically have the drain in the 
middle of the concave bottom where all the particulate matter (draff) 
naturally accumulates.  This can make it harder to get clear wort.  I 
don't know if the is the problem here or not.  I have a flat bottomed 
aluminum ten gallon (38L) stock pot with the drain on the side.  I 
sometimes find that it is helpful to open the valve all the way for a 
moment at first to wash out draff near the drain.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:03:34 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Quick carbonation

On the subject of quick carbonation, Mark Tumarkin wrote:

>I don't really like the quick-carb method either, because I always seem
to
>overdo it and end up with the beer too highly carbonated.

And Jeff Renner wrote:

>It is simply a matter of technique.  It's all in the wrist.  ;-)

Just a reminder, Jeff: If you shake it more than 3 times, you're playing
with it    :^)



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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:02:49 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Electric Brewing

It seems that as the weather cools, a few home brewers have been posting
questions about electric brewing lately.  I recently converted my old
propane system to electric to move indoors, and have been very happy with
the results.  Bill Tobbler reports that 4500W is sufficient, though I'll add
that 6000W (via 2 x 3kW elements) is even better!  My brew days are *much*
shorter, as time to heat water and boil wort has been reduced significantly.
6000W is about the limit you can draw off a standard dryer plug (25A on a
30A circuit), and once a boil is a achieved, I cut the power down to 45% to
get a nice, rolling boil.

For anyone considering converting - go for it!  Yes, there is a bit of an
outlay if you use a PID and SSR, though both are available on eBay.  Another
local brewer has built an electric "junkyard" brewery, controlled by
salvaged stove switches - he doesn't get the precise control I do, but then
all his electric components cost less than 3 propane burners.

There are some photos of my setup at:
http://barleyment.neap.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=DrewsWorld

(And there are a couple of photos of John Edward's Junkyard Brewery at
http://barleyment.neap.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album07)

Cheers!
Drew Avis ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca


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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:06:16 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Quick carbonation

At 9:03 AM -0500 12/6/02, Randy Ricchi wrote:
>Just a reminder, Jeff: If you shake it more than 3 times, you're playing
>with it    :^)

And the problem with that is ... ?
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:22:48 -0600
From: "Beer Phantom" <beer_phantom at hotmail.com>
Subject: swirling in active fermentation from _____?

Jens,

On the currents in the fermenter, I have two words for you:

Yeast Farts

Yours in anonimity,
The Beer Phantom



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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:27:06 -0600
From: "Mark Linton" <cryptcl at earthlink.net>
Subject: Diacetyl rest question

Does anyone have an easy rule of thumb for exactly *when* to do the diacetyl
rest?  I've got a lager that's been in the fermenter since Saturday, Nov.
30th, and the airlock bubbles are starting to slow to about one per 10
seconds or so.

I'm thinking I'm close, and don't really have a method for checking gravity
while it's in the fermenter - I've been hesitant to do that.  I don't want
to do it too early an introduce fermentation nasties, and don't want to wait
too long and try to coax retired yeast into active duty.

This brew is a light lager, brewed in hopes that it would be ready by the
Super Bowl.  It's also the first lager I've made using an aeration stone and
pure oxygen from the little red cylinder.  I was surprised at how little gas
is in those things - maybe only about 10 minutes or so of gas?  At around $8
per bottle, it jacks up the cost of brewing.  I was shooting the fermenter
with O2 until the foam reached the neck, and then I'd let it settle for a
while and shoot it again when there was some headspace.  This fermentation
kicked off in less than 8 hours, my fastest start for a lager yet.

Any rules of thumb would be greatly appreciated.

Mark




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Date: Fri,  6 Dec 2002 09:32:22 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: where to get parts for march pumps?


Greetings Beerlings!

I need a new impellor post and possibly a new impellor for my
March pump.  It's the 6144MM HIGH TEMP from Moving Brews who are
unfortunately out of business (though oddly their website is 
still there!)

Where could I get these parts, and any idea what I can expect
to pay for them?

thanks,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)


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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:39:52 -0500
From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu>
Subject: quick carb method

I really liked Steve's writeup on Quik Carbing, especially the part about
looping the CO2 line up over to prevent beer going back toward the
regulator.  That's a subtle point that usually isn't learned until you've
had to clean out your regulator a few times!

I do pretty much the same thing but never bothered to time it.  I usually
just go by 'ear';  when the regulator stops hissing and my arms/legs start
getting tired I quit.  Also, I'm not smart enough to keep a piece of foam
handy so my legs don't get cold so I usually just shake the bejeezes out of
it while it's sitting on the floor, just by holding onto the top handles.

Anyway, here's another idea.   When you get towards what you feel is the

1) Shut off the CO2 tank main valve
2) Continue shaking
3) You should hear the last of the CO2 shoot into the keg as the tank supply
pressure is consumed and the needle may jump up briefly (just the way the
regulator works)
4) The keg pressure will then settle on it's 'final' pressure,  pretty close
to equilibrium pressure for that temperature.

Compare that pressure with your CO2 chart to see how you're doing. I look
for about 12 psi at fridge temp for my normal beer (pils, pale ale)

Todd Snyder
Buffalo, NY



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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:48:46 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Re: DME/Grain

Steve says "But chocolate malt in a bock ????"  

I agree that roast character in a Bock is NOT appropriate.  To darken a
Bock, a small amount of de-husked Carafa malt would be OK.  This is similar
to a chocolate malt so a small amount of chocolate malt could be substituted
if Carafa isn't available.  

Dave Houseman



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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:03:45 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Ayinger yeast, now available

Hey all,

Much like Jeff R. with his Ruddles yeast, I handed a semi-precious 
sample of the Ayinger yeast given to me by a non-Renner homebrewer over 
to Chris White at WhiteLabs.  This is now available as German Bock 
Yeast.  As many people have, I can attest to this being a great lager 
yeast.  I use it almost exclusively for lagers as I think it does as 
well in a CAP as a dunkles or a bock.

A few weeks ago someone was searching for the origin of some of these 
yeasts.  I can also tell you that WhiteLabs' Zurich Lager Yeast is the 
Samichlaus yeast and will, if you make a large enough starter, ferment 
(at lager temps) a 15% abv beer.  It also is quite tasty in a witbier. 
 In my two attempts at Samichlaus I made a regular gravity witbier as a 
starter and got nice results for both products.

Cheers!
marc

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:32:15 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Cider clearing.. how much?

Quick question:

How much will the hard cider I've got here clear in the secondary, before I
bottle? Will it be see-through, or will it always be kind of "muddy"? What's
the best way to really clear it up from all the particulates, if it won't do
so on it's own?

Mike
Barkhamsted, CT
[554.8, 89.2 Apparent Rennarian]



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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:37:12 -0500
From: "C Cameron" <colinlovesbeer at hotmail.com>
Subject: Mash chemistry

I've read through the archives regarding mash pH and chemistry, and thought 
I'd get some input about my problems.

I have really hard water; HCO3 280ppm, Ca 100ppm, Mg 35ppm.  I have 
calculated the calcium additions I would need using either calcium chloride 
or gypsum (using nomograph at John Palmer's site) and it seems as though 
either of these, or a combination of the two even, would put my chloride and 
sulphate levels way up.  I recently brewed a pale ale and I used 1/3 tap 
water to 2/3 distilled.  I still had to add about 10g CaCl2 to 24L get 
residual alkalinity into the ballpark for correct mash pH.

I also used bottled (not distilled) water for sparge water as my tap water 
pH is 7.5 - 8.  As a side note, most of the bottled water in the area is 
also relatively hard and has low Ca and Mg making Ca additions difficult!

I was not able to monitor the pH of the mash.  I tried to get the salt 
profile right and hoped it would work out and it did - I got around 77% 
efficiency, which is what I usually get with stouts (all 3 of my previous 
all-grain batches were stouts).

So here are my questions:
Does anyone out there have similar problems with their water?
Should I look into using phosphoric (or lactic) acid to adjust mash pH, and 
not be so concerned about salt additions?  How difficult would this be?

How do others monitor mash pH?  Will litmus paper work OK, or does the color 
of beer distort color on the paper making reading difficult?

I've heard bad things about lactic acid - what is the taste limit of this 
stuff?  I imagine I would have to exceed this limit given my water profile.  
Where can I get phosphoric acid? (Other than the lab I work in - I'm not so 
comfortable taking chemicals home to eat!)

There are 3 breweries in this town, I wonder if they'd be willing to share 
some info...

Colin
Guelph, ON






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