HOMEBREW Digest #4116 Wed 11 December 2002

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  Ayinger Yeast - Yeast Wars ("Graham L Sanders")
  A good week... (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: white labs vs  wyeast ("greg man")
  backwards mash flow (aa8jzdial)
  water profiles Belgian regions: a correction ("Groenigen,  J.W. van")
  Re: What's the easiest way to bottle? (David Radwin)
  clogged keg & all-grain setup ("Rich Lanam")
  how much sparge water to use (Marc Sedam)
  Re: What's the easiest way to bottle? (Kevin White)
  Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast (David Towson)
  Re: Brewing as a profession (Bill Wible)
  re: yeast wars ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Re: brewing as a career (Bill Wible)
  Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. (Bill Wible)
  Luke Maltstalker vs. Darth Fermentor (Pat Babcock)
  Re: Ayinger yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Sanitizing bottles with Iodophor (LJ Vitt)
  Fridge Guy Type Question (Richard Foote)
  Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. was re: Ayinger yeast ... (Jeff Renner)
  Experiments with corn, the final chapter... (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM>
  Geuze ("Berggren, Stefan")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:37:18 +1000 From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com> Subject: Ayinger Yeast - Yeast Wars G'Day All With the build-up well and truly here in utopia, (oh thats summer to the non-tropical people), all one can do is just sit back and enjoy the great beers of the world, like the famed Tripical flower Wit. Too hot to do anything else, and that includes work. (and play come to think of it). This can be a good thing as any-one who has had the misfortune of actually seeing SWMBO will always let fly "you actually sleep next to that, AND TOUCH IT!!!!!!!! and your still alive". But Jeff comments to this has stired me into a sweat on the keyboard. >>>>>I handed a semi-precious sample of the Ayinger yeast given to me by a non-Renner homebrewer overto Chris White at WhiteLabs. This is now available as German BockYeast.<<<<<< >>>>>I only wish he would call it Ayinger since it is a legendary yeast under that name here and in Australia.........I hope it sells well enough to become a regular yeast. I'll bet it would if it were sold as Ayinger.< Yes in Aus the Ayinger is more popular than bullets and spotlights outback. So many Skippy's you only have to throw a rock at them to put their lights out. The Ayinger was brought out to Aus years ago and constantly does the rounds with brewers over here. All you have to do is coo-ee you need some and next minute they pop up in the post quicker than my love life. It is truly a great yeast and I agree with Jeff the best lager yeast. When Chris White came to Aus earlier this year, we bombarded him about this yeast. He took back a number a samples of this yeast from us to trial. He reported the samples survived his trip, unlike himself, and they grew fine. Last we heard he was going to test them out. Who's sample he used doesn't really matter, but like Jeff, it amazes me that Chris has named it German Bock yeast. Is he MAD. It would sell like hot cakes if he named it Ayinger. There would be no copy right involved as there is a town by that name in Germany, so he could say its named after the town. Further, I feel while the ayinger is a great all round lager yeast, it properties really come to the fore in lighter coloured lagers than the heavier bocks. It would be a real dis-service and even misleading to name it a bock yeast, as many will not realise its full potential. One way to ruin a good product. - Give it to Marketing!!!!!!!!! Speaking of some-one who needs a marketing manager, Young Steve wrote>>>>>>Anyone care to comment on their experience wrt Wyeast vs WhiteLabs products ?<<<<<< I would summise that the majority of craftbrewers would not be able to tell the difference between the stables of the two companies. It would boil down more to whether you like a smack-pack verses a tube. More experienced brewers no doubt would have their favourites. I am no exception. I have picked the eyes out of a number of companies yeast range, including Aussie yeast companies, and have what I feel is quite a comprehensive range of what I think are the best yeasts in my Yeast Station. Without listing them, Neither company dominates my yeast station. But in a competitive world, thats how it should be. Shout Graham Sanders Oh - The salties are about and very active. We have lost another yank to a water lizard, taken in a water hole. Why dont they learn, dont swim in most places up here. Thank god our babies seem to like tourists. They must be not as tough as us locals. Thou I can understand why these tourists do this, seeing the locals waist deep in the same water. Thats till we see one. Just yesterday, two Townsville boys were in the surf up their waste fishing. That was until a 20 foot baby swam right past them. Well they have worked out how JC walked on water. Easy they recon. Just need the right motivation. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:59:48 -0900 From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com> Subject: A good week... This weekend I got my amber bottled, brewed an all grain stout... and today, oh joy!, my beer engine arrive from N. Yorkshire. :-) The stout will be the first batch I try it on, assuming I can figure out how to attach it to a mini-keg pull-out spout. (Teresa's adventures in cheapskate equipment engineering are never-ending...) Now I'm off to pull some water through it, and see if there's any repair work to be done. :-) - -- ::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska:: [2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues." -- Abraham Lincoln Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 01:24:58 -0500 From: "greg man" <dropthebeer at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: white labs vs wyeast Anyone care to comment on their experience with Wyeast vs WhiteLabs products ? Range, quality ... If you had to live with only one which would it be ? That may be a question the marketplace answers soon. -S This is a hard question to answer so I'll try to reply with little or no bias. Both company's make a good product. The large smack packs from wyeast work well as long as I've made a starter when brewing with them. The white lab tubes are "so called pitch-able" but I have had extra long lag times when brewing lagers an just pouring them in. They might be better suited for ales however just to be safe I make a 1/3 gallon starter for ales an almost a gallon for lagers. This is S.O.P. for me when using wyeast or whitelabs. As far as the quality of the product. This is a little harder to quantify with out a lab! However given my personal experience, If both are fresh an up to date they seem to work about the same for me. My only major complaint comes not from the company's but really the suppliers of these yeasts. Many times I have found even reputable an well know homebrew shops that will try an pass off an older smack pack of wyeast. These aged beasties in my brewery (if you can call it that) do not function as well as fresher packs. Even though wyeast says on there bags to just add "one day per month" incubation period, the beer just IMHO doesn't come out as good as the fresher ones. In order to back that statement up, I had a few beers that were entered in competition where they scored well but, the yeast was sited as the possible problem for causing a slight off flavor? The yeast age was questioned as the possible culprit! This happened more than once. I used to brew with these older yeasts thinking nothing of it. Now I'm guessing there is a difference an fresher is better. As I mentioned this is not a problem with either company's as much as it is with suppliers. So beware of homebrew shops that try to dump these old supply's off on you. To fix this I switched to white labs an grew my own yeast ranch :) >From what I have heard white labs is more dedicated to keeping fresh yeast in homebrew shops, even allowing them to return out of date tubes for newer ones. To date I have not received any old tubes of whitelabs! That's my 2 cents an from what you can read that's about all its worth........................gregman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:42:54 +0000 From: aa8jzdial at attbi.com Subject: backwards mash flow Greetings all. A stuck mash is a terrible thing. I have found out once too often. The carona is getting trashed and a good mill is in the works. Has anyone tried reversing the flow through the mash? Against gravity with a pump and overflowing out a spout or such off the top of the mash? If the mash is too thick, would the pressure from the pump cause it loosen?. Feedback would be appreciated before the time and hardware investment. Another note. Any brewers out there that might also be ham radio ops? An on the air gathering to hob knob brewing may be fun. tnx rick aa8jz Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:40:16 +0100 From: "Groenigen, J.W. van" <J.W.vanGroenigen at Alterra.wag-ur.nl> Subject: water profiles Belgian regions: a correction Hi all, Somehow the numbers on the list of Belgian breweries that I posted yesterday was removed, so it was probably difficult to relate the different breweries to the water profiles. So, once more, the two lists: Province/region Ca Mg Na SO4 Cl HCO3 Hardness 1. Antwerpen / Anvers 65 7 16 48 30 159 189 2. Brabant 111 12 14 74 40 315 328 3. Henegouwen / Hainaut 113 17 15 65 41 355 351 (Charleroi) 4. Achouffe 29 4 12 12 35 72 87 5. Orval 96 4 5 25 13 287 257 6. Rochefort 82 10 6 32 17 240 246 7. Chimay 70 7 7 21 21 216 203 8. Luik / Liege 60 15 11 28 24 231 213 9. East Flanders 134 22 52 76 47 306 424 10. West Flanders 114 10 125 145 139 370 328 11. Henegouwen / Hainaut 116 25 101 106 45 598 389 (Saisons) 12. Average Ardennes 60 13 11 25 24 213 200 Breweries located in the regions: 1) West Malle, De Konink, Duvel, Het Anker 2) Belle-Vue, Frank Boon, Cantillon, De Troch, Girardin, Hoegaarden, Palm, Lefebvre, Drie Fonteyn, Haacht 3) Maes 4) Brasserie d'Achouffe 5) Brasserie d'Orval 6) Abbaye Notre Dame - Rochefort 7) Abbaye de Scourmont - Chimay 8) Jupiler 9) Bios, Bosteels, Crombe, De Ryck, Huyghe, Liefmans, Roman 10) West Vleteren, Bavik, De Dolle Brouwers, De Gouden Boom, Riva, Rodenbach, Sint Bernardus, van Eecke, Van Honsebrouck 11) Brasserie de Pipaix, Dubuisson, Dupont, Brasserie de Silly Jacques Bertens / Jan Willem van Groenigen Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 23:59:17 -0800 From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: What's the easiest way to bottle? > Any suggestions to make bottling really easy would be most welcome. I > know I could use Don't stop using your dishwasher. The trick is to clean the bottles ahead of time before the yeast dries out and becomes difficult to remove. After drinking a bottle of homebrew, quickly rinse out the yeast, etc. I just add a little water, cover the top with my thumb, and shake vigorously. Repeat once or twice to be sure. Store the clean (but not yet sanitized) bottles in a closed container (like a plastic trash can with locking lid). Sanitize bottles in the dishwasher several hours or the night before bottling, which will allow the bottles to cool down and dry off. Using this system I've never had any infections, I never use the bottle brush, and I rarely have to mix up sanitizing solution. Another trick is to place the bottling bucket on the counter above the open dishwasher door. Whenever I spill during the bottling process (usually at least once per batch!), I don't have to clean it up--the dishwasher takes care of that. David Radwin in Berkeley, CA news at removethispart.davidradwin.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 07:20:43 -0500 From: "Rich Lanam" <rlanam at kaplancollege.edu> Subject: clogged keg & all-grain setup I had read about how hops used to be put directly in the cask. Without thinking through the possible side-effects, I put hops directly in my keg. Well, it clogged he whole thing up and I ended up spending a few hours reducing the pressure and transferring the beer. I hope someone can learn from my mistake. I am primarily an extract brewer, but have done all-grain twice. My long term goal is to someday brew professionally. What type of inexpensive all-grain setup would most closely resemble a small professional installation -- or at least provide experience in controlling the variables that I'd need to become familiar with? -Rich Lanam SuperFundBrewing Warren, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:58:56 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: how much sparge water to use There are certainly calculations after calculations to use for this. I wind up using a rule of thumb that seems to work out just fine. I brew all of my beers using a ratio of 1.25qt water/ lb of grain. Dunno why...I just like it. Anyway, by using this ratio to start I find that I need an amount of sparge water of exactly the same volume as I want to have for the final batch. If I'm making 5 gallons of beer, I use 5 gallons of sparge water. 10 gallons of beer? 10 gallons of sparge water. And so on... I'm sure that it is a combination of the mash ratio and my boiling rate (use a cajun cooker/converted keg boiler) but the ease of doing it this way works so well for me I don't think about it. The slightly less lazy way is to buy StrangeBrew or ProMash and let them calculate it all for you. - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:12:23 -0500 From: Kevin White <kwhite at bcpl.net> Subject: Re: What's the easiest way to bottle? Fran in Burlington Vt asks, "What's the easiest way to bottle?" I think your question is "What's the easiest way to sanitize bottles?" I start by always (ALWAYS) thoroughly rinsing the bottle immediately after pouring the beer. This is MUCH easier than scrubbing out dried gunk. I then store the bottles in a cardboard beer carton (case box) until needed. Storing them covered keeps dust and such from accumulating in the bottles. On bottling day (sometimes the day before) I rinse the bottles with a bottle washer, soak them in a 12-15 ppm iodophor solution for a half-hour or so, then invert them on a bottle-drying rack to drain. I don't worry about letting the bottles dry completely before bottling. The only time I had infected bottles was when I bought new swing top bottles and did not clean them before sanitizing them. As far as simplifying the bottling process, I can recommend three things: (1) a spring-loaded bottling wand; (2) a bench capper; and (3) a friend who will help in exchange for homebrew. Kevin White Malted Duck Brewery Columbia, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:11:29 -0500 From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> Subject: Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast A friend who runs a homebrew shop told me that his supplier, Carlson, will stop providing Wyeast liquid yeast, and carry only White Labs. He noted that stocking the White Labs tubes requires a lot more space in his refrigerator. He also said that Wyeast has been very responsive to orders he has placed directly with them. Dave Bel Air, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:25:23 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: Brewing as a profession Steve, The brewery I was referring to that started on a shoestring budget of $3 million and "Never had enough money from day 1" was Independence Brewing. They were a brewery here in Phila, not a brewpub. I WISH they'd had a brewpub I could have gone to. This $3 million line is a direct quote from Bill Moore, who started Independence and he was published in multiple brewing publications. BTW - Jim Kock is one of the rare the exceptions in brewing, and by far not the rule. He came from a rich family who had alot of money, and connections. He wasn't the average Joe starting a brewery with nothing. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:56:58 -0500 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re: yeast wars Personal preferences will surely play heavily in the yeast discussions. As a brewer I look at several available packs and think, "which makes me feel more confident?"; a package with approximately 50 billion cells, yielding a pitching rate of 2.6 mill cells/ml in 5 gallons, sounds skimpy to me...and how viable is the culture? how was it treated during transportation and storage? how can I tell by looking at this brown goo in the bottom of this tube? I can't even see through_this_tube. Now if I smack this other pack and it puffs up I know something is growing and thriving, I think this makes me feel a little more confident that I am at least adding something that is active to my wort. For my money a XL smack pack adds a little bit of assurance to the whole process. As a slightly advanced brewer I know to make a starter with any packaged yeast; but as a retailer I must send something out the door that has the best chances of satisfying the customer when he follows label instructions. So from a retailer's viewpoint I feel more confident sending someone home with a XL smack-pack that will (hopefully) be pitched at high kraeusen after activated; compared to a dormant culture of unknown viablilty from a pitchable tube from any manufacturer. You gotta eliminate some of the doubt when a customers first try at liquid yeasts can make or break future sales. And who wants to make the customer change recipes after so many years and now try this yeast or that? when so far they have been happy with "WY xxxx", I have better things to do than learn another 50 yeast strains and their appropriate styles. I'm not afraid of trying something new, but obviously my customers are, because I have a handful of WL tubes rotting away in the fridge at this point. Not that I haven't tried selling them, but the usual response is, "Nah, I know how the Wyeast works for me." Some people like sticking to the tried and true, others like experimenting. T'aint no big deal, but I carry a product that I and my customers know and trust. One little thing that makes a big difference is adding nutrients to the starter. Wyeast has a nutrient that I've been having people try and has been well received at this point; f'rinstance a Belgian trippel fermented from 1093 to 1020 in 4 days. This seems to indicate some nice yeast vitality. Of course I have to trust his observations, but he keeps asking for more free samples of the nutrient so something is working right. I used to blend my own nutrient, but with this one ready-to-go, it isn't worth my time. NAYMMV NPL in PGH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:26:11 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: brewing as a career Unless you have the money and the connections to start your own brewery, I don't think its worthwhile to go into professional brewing. That's pretty much all I was saying. I also didn't mention a few other 'little' negative things about professional brewing, like how much liability insurance for a brewery or brewpub costs, how organizations like MADD are working to bring down the alcohol industry, and how the current political climate could turn against it any minute, too. Liability insurance is certainly one of, if not the single biggest expense for a brewery, and its more if you have a brewpub. Do you think any company wants to insure you to have people consume alcohol at your business, then get in their cars and drive home? If somebody drinks at your place, then drives home and gets in a DUI accident, they're going to almost certainly come after you with a lawsuit, whether it was your fault or not. And juries nowadays are way too generous with awarding other people's money. So insurance for a brewery or brewpub costs a ton. Probably more than any other single expense you will have. I own a homebrew shop and had to disband my homebrew club over concern about insurance, DUI and lawsuits. I would not have been covered, so I could not have meetings in my store and let people drink here and drive home. Groups like MADD don't think you have any right to brew and serve beer, and they're not afraid to tell you that. And more and more politicians are agreeing. The legal limit for DUI was recently lowered to .08 here, and MADD wants to make it .06, which I think is ridiculous. Have you taken notice of what the gov't has done to tobacco? They started with banning smoking in the workplace, put out alot of half truths about second hand smoke, then they raised 'sin' taxes on tobacco every time they needed a dollar to pay for some new program. A pack of cigarettes is now over $5 here. They say "great, kids won't have the money to smoke", which is also BS, because kids have $5 a pack to buy Pokemon cards, don't they? They opened the entire tobacco industry to lawsuits from every state, and from people who died as a result of smoking. Now 13 states have laws that totally forbid smoking in any public place, EVEN OUTDOORS! A local bar here was on the news because they're fighting it and are letting people smoke. They were just fined $100,000. One can certainly see the parallels between the assault on tobacco and what could be done to alcohol. Tax increases, lawsuits to reimburse states for the expenses of cleaning up DUI, lawsuits from people or their families who were killed or injured in DUI, new laws telling when you can drink and where, etc. PA is already very draconian in their liquor laws, I can't imagine it getting any worse. I'm not a smoker, but I don't deny someone else the option, if that's their choice. And I see where this is going with regards to rights and setting precedents. This is the current political climate. More and more, your rights are being eroded. And alot of breweries today are offering the government a free shot at the brewing and alcohol industries, because they're continuing to produce "alcopops" - these super sweet, alcoholic beverages. It started with Zima, and now we have hard cider, hard lemonade, hard cola, and I kid you not - hard root beer. Who do you think is the target market here? Sure, this mess is targeting underage drinkers. And it's only a matter of time until one of these lawmakers takes it on as a personal crusade to crush the alcohol industry the same way they crushed the tobacco industry, with taxes, lawsuits, and all under the guise of 'Protecting the children', as we've seen and heard way too often now. And the brewing industry will just gladly hand them the means to do it, by catering to underage drinkers! There have already been several news stories along these lines. Am I the only one who sees this? We might have prohibition back in a couple years if this keeps up. Big as they are, RJ Reynolds didn't have the means, the money, the backing, or the power to fight the government. Does AB, Miller, and Coors? I honestly don't know. What these politicians today are thinking is anyone's guess. So yeah, I do have a negative view of professional brewing, especially when you're talking about being a minimum wage employee doing all the grunt work for someone like Jim Koch, shoveling out mash tuns and working at 3 am, so they can get rich and famous. Why would anyone want to do that? And why would you want to take all the risk and expense of starting your own so you can either get crushed by AB or squashed by the gov't? It doesn't make sense. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:42:00 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. Wyeast makes pitchable tubes now, just like White Labs. They've had them out for over a year now, its nothing new. They're gold tubes and they're referred to as "shampoo tubes" because that's what they look like. I agree that pitchable yeast is easier and more convenient to use. I have old smack packs in my fridge here at the store that are over a year old to prove it, because nobody buys them anymore. Wyeast has lost alot of market share because the pitchable yeast is so convenient, and everybody seems to know that White Labs has it, but for some reason, they don't seem to know that Wyeast also has it. Are other shops not carrying them?? BTW - White Labs has superior packaging. They package their yeast in 2 liter soda bottle blanks. If you look at the tube, you can see it's a blank that they would put on a machine, heat, expand, and form a 2 liter soda bottle out of. These things are super strong and virtually indestructible. Wyeast has had numerous packaging problems. And yes, I agree there may only be one yeast supplier soon. In fact, I believe I posted that here a few months ago. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, because I like having choices. But the way its going... Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Luke Maltstalker vs. Darth Fermentor Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... When I useta brew, I used 'em both. When I brew agin, I'll use 'em both agin. Had great success with both. I'm partial to the Wyeast, only because they are familiar, but I appreciate the White Labs tube as I can shake it around and get a feel for how hard-packed the flocculated yeast will be (heps ya plan yer rackin' technique, it do...) As a plus to the White Labs, I don't have to wait until the tube swells up in order to pitch a starter, neither. But the swelling of the Wyeast pack gives you the warm fuzzy that the yeast is doin' its thang. Each has its advantages; each has its disadvantages. En thar y'all have muh doller-two fipty. L8R... - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" - Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:33:52 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Ayinger yeast "JENS MAUDAL" <jens.maudal at c2i.net> writes from Drammen, Norway >I have been using the Ayinger yeast in 3 brews now >(from YCKC) and have observed the following. > >Yes its a very nice lager yeast probably suitable for most >of the different types of lagers made in Germany apart from >a north german style pilsner. >I think the yeast leaves a fair amount of sweetnes that either >has to be compensated with more bittering hops or less use >of crystal or cara type malts. I have not had this problem. For a 22% corn/78% malt CAP, 100% pilsner malt Pils, and 80-100% Munich malt Dunkel, I get good attenuation (75-80% with the CAP and Pils, and 70-75% with the Dunkel). I do a two rest mash with 30-45 minutes at 145F/63C and 158F/70C each, followed by mashout. This seems to give good efficiency and attenuation. I do not use crystal or cara malts in any of my lagers except carapils in low gravity ones (less than 10P or 1.040). It is important, as with all lager yeasts, to use a big starter or repitch lots of healthy yeast. >I have also experianced a diacetyl problem with this yeast, >especialy in my last Schwarts bier, may be my diacetyl rest >was too short or something, but the beer even considering the >strong taste from dark malts have a pronounced diacetyl taste. >Is this an experiance that others have as well. I am really sensitive to diacetyl and don't like it. Again, I have not had this problem. I don't find a diacetyl rest necessary with Ayinger. I pitch and ferment at 50F/10C, then slowly drop to 32F/0C as fermentation slows. I first tasted Ayinger when Dan McC first got it from Germany. A local brewpub ws unhappy with the lager yeast they were using and fermented five one gallon (4L) batches of their standard wort with different yeasts at their standard 50F/10C temperature and lagered it them at the same temperature. The Ayinger was the clear favorite of the five of us on the taste panel, and was my favorite by a wide margin. Some of the others had quite a bit of diacetyl. I wonder if since this problem is worse with your most recent beer if your culture has developed respiratory deficient petit mutants. This could explain the problem. I think these can be differentiated under the microscope (but I'm not experienced and don't know for sure). Perhaps you could reculture from some normal cells. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:46:17 -0800 (PST) From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> Subject: Sanitizing bottles with Iodophor Fran from Vermont asked about sanitizing bottles in Iodophor: >So, the question is, can I get away with, let's say, a rinse with a >bottle washer attached to the >faucet, then a dip in a bucket of iodophor solution, drip dry, then >bottle? Yes it works. Why wouldn't it - its the same sanitizer used on fermenters, kegs, other stuff. Is it less work than using the dishwasher? You have to try it to find out. I use that method because I don'dishwasherhe dishwaher. I get all the bottles that will fit into a bucket of iodophor and wait a few minutes. I have them submerged in the iodophor. Two minutes is what I always hear recommended. Dump the iodophor back into the bucket and put bottles on bottle tree. I already did the same thing to the bottle tree. What's a bottle tree? There's a photo on this page: http://www.northernbrewer.com/bottling.html To get ready for 5 gal, it takes three rounds of bottles through the bucket. You asked about ideas - Someone I know fills bottles with iodophor from a brew kettle thrclaimshe valve. He claims it is faster because he isn't spending time holding the bottles down in the bucket of iodophor to get the air out. ===== Leo Vitt Rochester MN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:18:14 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Fridge Guy Type Question Brewers, I have been offered a used walk-in cooler, and the price is right--FREE! It's probably on the order of 8 to 10 feet square. It's kind of hard to tell in its dismantled state. It is of modular construction with 4" thick, or so, panels of inner and outer sheet metal and polyurethane foam core. It lacks any refrigeration goodies (compressor, motor 'n stuff). Basically, it's an insulated box. So my question: What are the pros and cons of going with a small window unit air conditioner versus a commercial refrigeration unit to provide refrigeration for this? I would especially like information on startup and operational costs. Having read the fridge posts on HBD for some time, I know moisture comes up quite often on the list of concerns. Is one better than the other in this respect or is there no difference? Any information (public or private) would be most welcome. TIA, Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:35:53 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. was re: Ayinger yeast ... Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> wrote from Chapel Hill, NC >this would be an incredibly popular yeast (it's been a HB cult >favorite for years) if offered in the regular WL rotation, but think the >name is just fine. Ayinger is a trademark of the company that cultured >the yeast, but they are known quite well for the plastic goat on their >bottles of bock. I don't actually know if the yeast is from THE Ayinger brewery or simply one of the several (I think five?) in the town. Do you know, Marc? I suppose I could ask Dan. I think it was originally simply labeled as being from Aying. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:54:24 -0500 From: "Smith, Brian (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM> Subject: Experiments with corn, the final chapter... Well listers, as you may remember I was trying an experiment with some freshly ground corn meal from the parish (county) fair. I mashed as per Jeff R's instructions and had an unusually long lag time when pitched. Well, I had to do something that I have never had to do in the 20 some years I have been homebrewing; I had to dump a batch. I though that I might have an infection when I racked from the primary to the secondary, a slight vinegar smell but I tried to convince myself that it was just my imagination. It was not my imagination, I made 6 gallons of hoppy, spicy, malt vinegar. So I dumped the whole batch down the drain, filled the carboy with a strong conc. of bleach and I am coming to the collective seeking a little comfort. I will try again later. I have heard that you should learn something from every mistake so here is what I have learned: 1) If using a "smack-pack" and it's a little "long in the tooth", give it several days to fire up. 2) Keep at least one package of dry yeast for emergencies. 3) It REALLY helps if you live somewhere with a local homebrew shop. Since I don't anymore, I really miss it. Brian Smith Big Ring Brewery (or Vinegary) Bogalusa, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:32:06 -0600 From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com> Subject: Geuze Greetings, Has anyone ever tried to or successfully finish a Belgian Geuze? I tried my first taste of a Geuze last night and am forever changed. I realize that the complexity of trying to replicate a true gueze from Belgium would be futile, but perhaps someone has an idea as how to get close. I am intrigued by Wyeasts 3278 Lambic blend, has anyone out there used this strain/mix? I would love to see this mysterious topic bring forth a discussion among brewers on the digest. Cheers, Stefan There is more to life than increasing its speed." --Gandhi Return to table of contents
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