HOMEBREW Digest #4115 Tue 10 December 2002

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  RE: Fruit Flies through the air-lock (Bob Sheck)
  Ayinger yeast ("JENS MAUDAL")
  First All-Grain Batch (Teresa Knezek)
  cider clearing (Alan McKay)
  Old Beer Signs ("David Craft")
  False bottoms. (Wendy & Reuben Filsell)
  Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. (Larry Bristol)
  water profiles Belgian regions ("Groenigen,  J.W. van")
  Re: Cider clearing.. how much? ("Drew Avis")
  Fruit Fly Houdini ("Eric R. Theiner")
  "Subject: RE: Feeding Horses Spent Grains ("Nichols, Josh")
  Re: best propane burner and first all grain results ("Byron's Yahoo Account")
  Toledo Metal Spinning - producing a prototype conical fermenter!!!! (FRASERJ)
  re: Water Comments ("Jim Dunlap")
  Mash tun outlet filters (David Towson)
  Cleveland Ohio Water ("Joe Stump")
  Apple Cider ("Tom Clark")
  Cloudy cider (pectin haze?) - how to clear? (Daniel Chisholm)
  Re: Thoughts on False Bottom height ("John Palmer")
  Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. was re: Ayinger yeast ... (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Ayinger yeast, now available (Richard Foote)
  Trub (yeast) in septic systems (Richard Foote)
  Re:  amount of mash in water (Bill Tobler)
  Stock Yeasts (mohrstrom)
  What's the easiest way to bottle? (thurber)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 01:05:04 -0500 From: Bob Sheck <bobsheck at earthlink.net> Subject: RE: Fruit Flies through the air-lock "Gilbert Milone II" <gilbertmilone at hotmail.com> wondered about this phenomena~ Remember: Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. Groucho Marx Save the beer. Taste it. It may be good. If it's bad, you may want to use it to cook with. Or if it turns to vinegar, you will have a lifetime supply of malt vinegar. Watch out for those arrows. . . Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC bsheck at earthlink.net // [583.2,140.6] Apparent Rennerian Home Brewing since 1993 // bobsheck at earthlink.net // Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:20:57 +0100 From: "JENS MAUDAL" <jens.maudal at c2i.net> Subject: Ayinger yeast I have been using the Ayinger yeast in 3 brews now (from YCKC) and have observed the following. Yes its a very nice lager yeast probably suitable for most of the different types of lagers made in Germany apart from a north german style pilsner. I think the yeast leaves a fair amount of sweetnes that either has to be compensated with more bittering hops or less use of crystal or cara type malts. I have also experianced a diacetyl problem with this yeast, especialy in my last Schwarts bier, may be my diacetyl rest was too short or something, but the beer even considering the strong taste from dark malts have a pronounced diacetyl taste. Is this an experiance that others have as well. Jens Jens P. Maudal jens.maudal at c2i.net Greetings from "BottomsUp Brewery" Drammen - Norway Work: +47 32833566, mobile: +47 90540409 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Visit my humble RIMS and homebrew page: http://home.c2i.net/bottomsup/index.htm Norbrygg bryggeside: http://www.norbrygg.com ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:58:00 -0900 From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com> Subject: First All-Grain Batch Well, after hearing the cost difference between all-grain and partial mash, cheapskate me ran out and bought 14lbs of grain, a bunch of vinyl hose (why? I'll get to that... hehe), and brewed up 5 gallons of stout on my stovetop. :-) We had an old Coleman cooler in the garage, and I did a little reading up about false-bottoms vs. manifold lauter tuns, and decided to try an adapted manifold design (the interior of the cooler was vertically ribbed, making a tight-fitting false bottom impossible), which ended up being a double loop of 1" vinyl tube with a bunch of slits cut in it, rigged up to a T-joint and hose-barb fitting, with 5/16" vinyl tube on the hose barb, and threaded out through the cooler drain... the flare at the hose barb end made a perfect seal to the drain. Then I put my too-small-for-all-grain grain bag over the 1" tubing loops, and cinched it up around the hose barb end... According to the calculators at beertools.com, I fell a bit short of 72% efficiency... they predicted OG of .066, and I ended up with .063 at pitching. But not bad for a stove top mash, and half-assed lauter manifold... :-) I've got it all in the fermenter now. (The recipe also calculated out to 6.2% Alcohol by volume, which is a bit high for an oatmeal stout, so I figured I had a bit of wiggle-room anyhow). So... what's the worst that can happen if my mashing temp. was a bit high for part of the mash? I think it maxed-out at around 158degF, but I tried to keep an eye on it and stir it to bring down the temperature any time it went over 155. - -- ::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska:: [2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues." -- Abraham Lincoln Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:53:31 -0500 From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> Subject: cider clearing This fall I made the first cider in several years, and made 2 batches of it. A bunch of us went out to a local orchard and got our buckets filled up. I added pectic enzyme to both, and then pitched DCL S-189. One then got fermented at low room temp (60F), and the other lagered. The room temp one got racked off a few weeks later, then 1.5 lb of honey added. Two weeks after that it was crystal clear though it still fermented slowly for a couple of weeks to work off the honey. A week or two after that the lagered one was done fermenting, and it was still very cloudy. Thinking perhaps I put it into the fridge before the pectic enzyme had a chance to work, I pulled it out and let it set at room temp (70F) for almost 2 weeks, and nothing. Then on Friday I put some gelatin to it, and set it back into the basement at 60F. Today it is almost crystal clear and I expect it will be crystal clear in another day or so. cheers, -Alan - -- http://www.bodensatz.com/ The Beer Site Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:25:30 -0500 From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net> Subject: Old Beer Signs Greetings, Are any other brewers out there collectors of Breweriania? I have been collecting old signs, mostly TOC, tin over cardboard. I prefer signs from the 50's and earlier and from obscure beers and brewers.. North Carolina was not a hotbed of brewing, ever. Moonshine yes, beer no! Much of what I collect is from up north. I am looking for people or books that help with some history of the signs I collect and would appreciate any advice. 'They make a great addition to my Brew Room! Brew on, David B. Craft Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery Greensboro, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 20:46:57 +0800 From: Wendy & Reuben Filsell <filsell at myplace.net.au> Subject: False bottoms. > From: homebrew-request@hbd.org (Request Address Only - No Articles) > Reply-To: homebrew at hbd.org (Posting Address Only - No Requests) > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 00:35:36 -0500 > To: homebrew at hbd.org > Subject: Homebrew Digest #4114 (December 09, 2002) > > Reuben you've got to explain this one... High circulation rates can lead to > compaction, but having your false bottom too far off the bottom of the tun > won't - though it can increase the circulation volume required to achieve > runoff clarity, and in some small measure reduce extraction efficiency due > to hold-up. I won't attempt to explain the physics, perhaps others can contribute, but I can say that by following the advice in the references below my lautering improved dramatically. ( I was using a double bucket set up and moved to a Phil's phalse bottom). "The false bottom of the lauter tun stands of the bottom of the tun by only 0.3 to 0.6 inches (8to15mm).This minimises the volume of underletting needed as well as minimising the hydrostatic head that, through the suction created, tends to compact the mash bed." Bock Darryl Richman Classic Beer Style Series #9. "The distance between the true and false bottom should not exceed 10-12mm. or an undue amount of turbid wort will pass through and there will also be some suction on the filter-bed" A Textbook of Brewing Vol I Jean De Clerk. any help? Reuben Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:31:32 -0600 From: Larry Bristol <larry at doubleluck.com> Subject: Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 14:35:58 -0500, "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at att.net> wrote: > Anyone care to comment on their experience wrt Wyeast vs > WhiteLabs products ? Range, quality ... If you had to live > with only one which would it be ? That may be a question > the marketplace answers soon. Both are availale at my LHBS and I have had excellent results with both. I slightly prefer the pitchable tubes from WL over than the "punch n' swell" WY packages. This is a big advantage. At least, it was back when I was making 5 gallon batches. Since I now do 10 gallon batches (and am too cheap to buy two tubes), all this means is that the yeast starter is easier to prepare. That is, assuming I am not lazy and simply underpitch (one tube in 10 gallons). Interestingly, I have found that the WL yeasts are viable enough (perhaps they are being even more conservative with that tighter date spec that one might imagine) that the lag time is not extended all that much. I did not notice a difference in the results when I did a [GASP!] head-to-head comparison of one tube vs. two. Since one tube has enough yeast for 5 gallons, perhaps it only needs one generation to produce enough for 10. So what IS the time it takes for a yeast population to double? <grin> At any rate, I think your comments about the possibility of having only one available in future are well grounded in this economic environment. If I had to make do with one, I would prefer either one! As long as that one was able to stick around and continue to give us a choice of one, rather than none. - -- Larry Bristol The Double Luck Bellville, TX http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 15:00:41 +0100 From: "Groenigen, J.W. van" <J.W.vanGroenigen at Alterra.wag-ur.nl> Subject: water profiles Belgian regions Hi all, Jacques Bertens, a Dutch homebrewer with a very informative but Dutch-language website ( www.hobbybrouwen.nl ) asked me to translate a short overview of Belgian brewing waters he compiled. As there is not much on the web on this subject, I think it might be of interest to some of you: [begin quote] Below, water profiles of several regions in Belgium are listed. I composed these water profiles together with Ronald Baert some 5 years ago, based on information provided by Belgian water companies. We received information from more than 100 pumping stations. Unfortunately, the information provided by the Walloon companies wasn't always complete. E.g., sometimes only hardness was provided. Below, I only listed those pumping stations that provided full analyses. All data are in mg/kg (ppm) of the cation (so e.g. Ca, not CaCO3): Province/region Ca Mg Na SO4 Cl HCO3 Hardness 1. Antwerpen / Anvers 65 7 16 48 30 159 189 2. Brabant 111 12 14 74 40 315 328 3. Henegouwen / Hainaut 113 17 15 65 41 355 351 (Charleroi) 4. Achouffe 29 4 12 12 35 72 87 5. Orval 96 4 5 25 13 287 257 6. Rochefort 82 10 6 32 17 240 246 7. Chimay 70 7 7 21 21 216 203 8. Luik / Liege 60 15 11 28 24 231 213 9. East Flanders 134 22 52 76 47 306 424 10. West Flanders 114 10 125 145 139 370 328 11. Henegouwen / Hainaut 116 25 101 106 45 598 389 (Saisons) 12. Average Ardennes 60 13 11 25 24 213 200 Naturally, the water that is being used by the breweries might deviate somewhat from these profiles if they have their own wells. However, generally they should be quite close. I clustered the water profiles as much as possible according to provinces/regions in Belgium. Obviously, several different groundwater zones can be delineated from these data. Along the coast (West Flanders) the water is relatively salt. According to the literature, Na - ions tend to give a sour taste. This might partially explain the variety of sour ales (Flemish browns etc.) traditionally brewed in this part of Belgium. In the eastern part of Belgium, the water tends to be softer, containing few minerals. The "average Ardennes" entry is the average of water profiles from Liege, Achouffe, Orval, Rochefrot and Chimay. Other wells/pumping stations in the Ardennes (e.g. Spa, Malmedy, La Roche) are also soft and relatively low in minerals. In order to relate these water profiles to beers that are brewed from it, I listed the names of well-known breweries located within these areas below: Breweries located in the regions: West Malle, De Konink, Duvel, Het Anker Belle-Vue, Frank Boon, Cantillon, De Troch, Girardin, Hoegaarden, Palm, Lefebvre, Drie Fonteyn, Haacht Maes Brasserie d'Achouffe Brasserie d'Orval Abbaye Notre Dame - Rochefort Abbaye de Scourmont - Chimay Jupiler Bios, Bosteels, Crombe, De Ryck, Huyghe, Liefmans, Roman West Vleteren, Bavik, De Dolle Brouwers, De Gouden Boom, Riva, Rodenbach, Sint Bernardus, van Eecke, Van Honsebrouck Brasserie de Pipaix, Dubuisson, Dupont, Brasserie de Silly Jacques [end quote] Take care, Jan Willem Wageningen, the Netherlands Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:44:46 -0500 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Cider clearing.. how much? Mike Barkhamsted asks about how much his hard cider will clear. The answer, of course, is "it depends". I've found that adding pectic enzyme to the juice before fermentation starts really aids in clarification - I have a cyser now that is ready to keg, and it's as clear as a nice white wine (i.e., read a newspaper through the carboy). I made a cider from fresh juice 3 years ago and forgot the pectic enzyme - it never did clear, even after 6 months (though hitting it w/ bentonite and polyclar helped). Since most folks add sugar/honey/raisins etc to cider, it often takes longer to ferment out and then clear than most beers. This current cyser took about 5 weeks to ferment and clear, at an OG of 1.062. Cheers! Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario http://www.strangebrew.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:38:54 -0500 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude02 at earthlink.net> Subject: Fruit Fly Houdini >Gil writes: >I recently brewed a Fat Tyre cloan, and had it in secondary for almost >two months. Today I bottled it, and after I was finished I noticed 5-10 >fruit flies in the bottom of the bucket. Does anyone know how they make >it through an air lock? Maybe I need to start putting mesh around the >air lock so the fruit flies can't get in? I'm stumped. Should I through >the beer out? Don't throw it out-- wait to see how it is! As for how they got in, I have two ideas. First, if you left the beer in secondary for 2 months, your water level may have gotten low in your fermentation lock and they flew in. That seems unlikely considering the path they'd have to take, but it's worth checking out. I know that extended secondaries will dry my fermentation lock out if I don't top them up every now and then. The second idea, which seems more likely if you're using "bubbler" type locks and are conscientious about topping your locks up, is that they flew into the water, drowned, and were pulled into the fermenter by the varying pressures that come from warm days and cool nights. It's not uncommon for me to have 4 or 5 drowned fruit flies in my fermentation locks, so I'd think that's where yours are coming from. Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:44:06 -0600 From: "Nichols, Josh" <Josh.Nichols at us.gambro.com> Subject: "Subject: RE: Feeding Horses Spent Grains "Subject: RE: Feeding Horses Spent Grains No problem feeding the horses the spent grains although I would not feed it if there were hops mixed into the grain. i.e.. Mash Hopping. I'm not saying that would be bad but it would be bad for some dogs so I'm not taking any chances." Is hops bad for dogs? I had never heard that? josh Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:51:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Byron's Yahoo Account" <btowles at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: best propane burner and first all grain results Steve, One thing to keep in mind is pot diameters. If you go to a 10 gallon setup, you may eventually want to go to a converted keg for your boil pot. I got a keg and converted it myself for my boil pot. When the conversion was done, I checked it on my burner, and the diameter of my burner was about 1/2" too small all the way around. If your brewpot has a flat bottom, this isn't a concern, but with my keg, it was a large concern. I had to bring my burner in and have someone weld some additional supports on the diameter to increase the available footprint for my keg. Just something to keep in mind. One a side note, I kegged my first all grain this weekend. Seven days in primary, 6 days in secondary dry hopped with 1 oz of 8.1 cascade. The brewing wasn't a big deal, but force carbonating was an adventure in itself. Thanks to the past 3 days or so of the HBD (which I read last night), I've gotten the directions I need for carbonating. I ended up carbonating the 70% full keg adequately and it tasted pretty damned good. A bit too bitter for APA, but IPA might work. I'll know next time. Byron Towles Crescent City Homebrewers New Orleans, LA [misplaced AR coords go here] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:20:34 -0500 From: FRASERJ at Nationwide.com Subject: Toledo Metal Spinning - producing a prototype conical fermenter!!!! Just ordered a 12.5 gallon conical from TMS, interesting part was that she informed me that in the next month or so they should have completed their prototype of a conical fermenter for homebrewers! They have had so much interest from homebrewers and have seen the prices others are selling them for and figure they can do as good. I cannot wait to see theirs, though I will have already finished construction of mine by then, but still, its good to see competition to the likes of morebeer.com and others where the price is way beyond the average home brewer. John M. Fraser http://rims-brewing.tripod.com now with no pop-ups! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:27:33 -0800 From: "Jim Dunlap" <jdpils at attbi.com> Subject: re: Water Comments AJ, What about adding lactic acid to reduce pH? Here in Seattle the pH has gone up from about 8 to 8.5 and the Ca and hardness as Ca CO3 has almost doubled over the past year from from each to 21 and 12 to 19 and 21, while the alklinity as Ca CO3 has remained the same. I have found that adjusting the pH downward to the low 7 range, with 88% lactic acid to help maintain proper mash pH for beers like pilsener and hefeweizen. For most beers past amber the pH in the mash gets too low. It does not seem like adding CaCO3 helps much. What ways would you suggest to raise mash pH? Should I treas mash water first or during the mash? Thanks Jim Dunlap Woodinville WA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:35:48 -0500 From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> Subject: Mash tun outlet filters In HBD 4114, Steve Alexander says, "I think a lot of newbie all-grainers miss the point when they look toward adding screens or filters on the outlet side. The grist bed *IS* the filter and the false bottom is just a porous support for the gristbed to build upon. " I agree mostly, but there is another consideration. When recirculating, some degree of pump throttling is needed to prevent excessive flow that would compact the mash. This throttling is done with a partly closed valve. Little bits of grain, if allowed into the valve, get caught and build up, causing blocking of the aperture. That requires occasional "burping" of the valve to clear out the crud, and restore the flow to an acceptable level. IMO, that is a real pain. An outlet filter eliminates this problem. Dave Bel Air, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:43:38 -0500 From: "Joe Stump" <joestump at adelphia.net> Subject: Cleveland Ohio Water Does anyone have the numbers for water for Cleveland Ohio? I need to plug them into Pro Mash. On a water analysis sheet from the CWD they don't list bicarbonates, but they do list alkalinity and hardness. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:48:07 -0500 From: "Tom Clark" <rtclark at citynet.net> Subject: Apple Cider Over the past few years I have become more of a winemaker than a home brewer. I have made hard cider or apple wine the past two years and both times it came out very clear and water white. This year I started out with the best Amish apple cider I ever tasted, from the Sugarcreek area of Ohio. ten drops of pectin enzyme per gallon was added at the begining, using Red Star Champaign yeast and adding a bit of yeast nutrient. When fermentation was complete, potasium meta-bisulfite and potasium sorbate were added to stabilize the cider and prevent further fermentation then, gelatin as a clarifying agent. Finally, ran the whole thing through an inexpensive wine filter before bottling. I bottled it in 375 milliliter bottles and added one cinnamon "red-hot" candy to each bottle. Although this does not have any "fizzy", it is perfectly clear with a slight pink cast from the candy. As I recall, it was a bit cloudy prior to filtering. The filter pad came out the color of a pumpkin. Good luck. Tom Clark Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 14:25:30 -0400 From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca> Subject: Cloudy cider (pectin haze?) - how to clear? I made a simple cider around the middle of October (fresh pressed apple juice from a local orchard, plus some (rehydrated!;-) Lalvin-K1V-1116 yeast -- nothing else!). The fermentation finished up a long time ago, but it steadfastly refuses to clear. I've racked it once already (fermented in glass carboys, racked into glass), hoping that the disturbance/mild air contact might kick off a clearing, but no joy. I'm now theorizing that the apple juice I had was probably made from under ripe apples, and therefore too rich in pectin. The juice's gravity was a surprisingly-low 1.036 (I was expecting upper 40s to mid 50s). I guess I should have bought some pectic enzyme, and let that work away before pitching my yeast. Hey, I'm a beer guy, I don't automatically generate a list of five additives to throw in at each stage of the process! ;-) Is there anything I can do now? I've got the usual assortment of finings (Isinglass, bentonite, PolyClar, gelatine). Can pectic enzyme help now, or is it way too late? Also, the taste is rather thin and tart - not very impressive, but probably not surprising given what I started with. Is there any way I can make it stronger (taste-wise)? There's really not a whole lot of flavour there, and I think that it's probably too late now to get fresh apple juice anymore (if I could, I'd think about adding some freeze-concentrated fresh apple juice). I'd rather not add spices (at least not to all of it), but I suppose I'll do that if I must... "Is My Cider Ruined"? ;-) - -- - Daniel Fredericton, NB Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:55:40 -0800 From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at altrionet.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on False Bottom height Hi Group, Tough questions, thanks for volunteering me Steve ;-). All of the following comments are based on my experimental data and the computer models that Brian Kern and I developed. You can probably find some posts in the archives around spring/summer 2001. And there are some pictures on my website www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer The assertion was that a higher falsebottom standoff height causing more compaction of the grainbed due to higher pressure differential. Hmmm, no, I don't have any observations to support that. I observed fluid flow (using food coloring) in a 10 gallon aquarium using Phil's Phalse Bottom material with the pickup centered in the first fourth of the length. In other words, pickup was at one end of the aquarium about 4 inches from 3 walls and about 12 inches from the far wall. Observingt the flow of dye down thru the grainbed and looking thru the glass bottom showed the the first point of entry was actually at the far end of the aquarium, not near the pickup. Observation over the next couple minutes showed multiple random entry points. The false bottom height was about 1 inch for all experiments, I never varied it. The only cause of grain compaction that I could see was due to high flow rate. If you think about this, then you can conjecture that a smaller false bottom area and/or a deeper grainbed in conjunction with a high flow rate ("high" being dependent on the permeability and geometry of the particular grainbed) would have a greater chance of compaction and a "stuck sparge." Professional brewery lauter tuns usually have multiple pickups spaced 1-2 ft apart. This spacing would depend of the total volume of the lauter tun. I believe Narziss had some calculations included in one of his books that outlined those considerations. On the homebrewing scale, I have not seen nor modeled a need for more than one pickup. Keep your sparge water level at least an inch above the grainbed to keep your grainbed suspended/fluid, keep your lauter flow slow, and as Steve says, grainbed a foot deep or more have no problems with compaction. Oops, gotta get to a meeting, Let me know if you have any questions, John john at howtobrew.com www.howtobrew.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:56:19 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: Re: yeast wars - WhiteLabs v Wyeast. was re: Ayinger yeast ... Honestly I don't see that the yeast supplier debate is an either/or issue. I have been brewing 75% of my beers using the WhiteLabs yeast over the past two years, 20% with dry yeast, and 5% with Wyeast. But compare that to the first eight years I brewed when it was 95% Wyeast and 5% dry yeast. I like to brew using the WL yeasts when I know that I'm going to brew in a couple of weeks. I tend to brew in bursts, so I'll order up two or three strains from WL knowing that I'll be pitching them soon enough. WL is, IMHO, very conservative with the "use by" dates on its vials. I do have a few smack packs of Wyeast still in storage and find that they will work just fine even 18 months after the date stamp provided you nurture it back to life using stepped-up starters. I really appreciate Wyeast carrying "alternate fermenters" like pediococcus, Brett. lambicus, and Lactobacillus delbruckii. If not for a reasonable availibility of the lacto culture, my Berliner weisses would just be weisses. I find this a wonderful service to the community. I brew with dry yeasts when I brew medium to low gravity beers that I want to be drinking in a week. I've made a few milds and bitters using the old Edme dry yeast that was 4 days from grain to glass and didn't even taste very green. I've brewed extensively with the DCL yeasts (Safale and Saflager brands) and am very pleased with the results. The Saflager S-23 yeast *is* a little bit fruity, but I certainly don't find it distasteful even in CAPs. What I have found over the past few years is WL's interest in maintaining creative yeast strains brought to them by the HB community. I have brewed with Jeff R's "Ridley's" strain and enjoy it, but am too lazy of a brewer to do a true yeast ranch. I have made a concerted effort over the past year to keep the Ayinger strain alive and kicking because it does such a wonderful job with lagers. I further agree with Jeff that this would be an incredibly popular yeast (it's been a HB cult favorite for years) if offered in the regular WL rotation, but think the name is just fine. Ayinger is a trademark of the company that cultured the yeast, but they are known quite well for the plastic goat on their bottles of bock. Of course if WL described its origins as "having come from a world-reknowned brewery located in Aying, Germany" then we're clear of all trademark issues and everyone would know from whence the yeast came. There is plenty of room for two "wet" yeast suppliers in the HB market and I think each has a separate niche in the market besides the 80% middle ground that both serve. What will be interesting to see is how each responds to the increasing quality of the dry yeasts on the market, including dry lager yeasts. I've brewed extensively with the DCL yeasts (Safale and Saflager brands) and am very pleased with the results. The Saflager S-23 yeast *is* a little bit fruity, but I certainly don't find it distasteful even in CAPs. Cheers! Marc >It seems the yeast market is diluting as WL pulls up against >Wyeast in range and quality and several dry yeasts are >clearly good enough for serious brewing. I wish 'em all well, >but I have serious doubts that all can survive in the HB market. >Obviously these places produce for commercial breweries, and >the big dry yeast companies have tiny costs involved in packing >yeast for the HB market. It's packaging active wet yeast with >short shelf-life for the HB market that is a marginal. My local >HB shop isn't so keen on WL. It's a high volume shop, but they >have a lot of WLtubes go out-of-date and they don't even carry >the full list. I suspect WLs dating spec is tighter than Wyeast , >which is a plus for the brewer but a loss for the brewshop. > >I know there are/have-been other wet-yeast vendors but these >guys seem to small and nitchy or attached to a shop like >Williams that prefers to package their own brands. Wyeast >and WhiteLabs seem to me to be the two places that are facing >the forces of this tiny HB wet-yeast market head-on. > >Anyone care to comment on their experience wrt Wyeast vs >WhiteLabs products ? Range, quality ... If you had to live >with only one which would it be ? That may be a question >the marketplace answers soon. > >-S > > > > > > - -- Marc Sedam Associate Director Office of Technology Development The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-4105 919.966.3929 (phone) 919.962.0646 (fax) OTD site : http://www.research.unc.edu/otd Monthly Seminar Info: http://www.research.unc.edu/otd/seminar/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 15:18:30 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Ayinger yeast, now available Hi All, Joining in on the Ayinger thread... Jeff R. writes: >As many people have, I can attest to this being a great lager >yeast. I use it almost exclusively for lagers as I think it does as >well in a CAP as a dunkles or a bock. I was sorry to hear Dan was hanging it up, as I've been a devotee of Ayinger for 2-3 years now (since Jeff turned me onto it). It came out number two among five lager strains chosen in our club's little yeast 'spurment. That and the tasty beers I've been fortunate to brew with this yeast is good enough for me to want to continue using it. I'm so glad it will continue to be offered. I for one would like to see it offered year-round. Continuing to refer to it as "Ayinger" would be preferred but perhaps there is some reason it can't? I'll closely guard one of the last slants of Ayinger until WL offers it. BTW, I've gottten good results with slants up to 1.5 years old! Rick Foote Whistle Peg Brewing Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 15:45:53 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Trub (yeast) in septic systems Brewers, Excuse me for just getting caught up on my reading of the HBD. Work can be such a drag. Anyway, I'd like to add a data point to the discussion of yeast or trub and home septic systems... Jim Bermingham on 26 Nov 2002 (HBD 4104) wrote: >On adding yeast to your septic system, Dennis Collins said that he would >be hesitant to do this if >you had a septic tank. Septic systems love yeast. For your friends that >do not brew, encourage them to add yeast to their septic system at least >once a month. This will cut down on problems they may have in the future. Back to me: Just this summer I had my septic tank pumped after living in my house ten years. I took the day off to be home when the honey dippers arrived. The house was built in 1983, and I'm sure this is the first time the tank was pumped. During all of those ten years, I have brewed, dumped iodophor, bleach soln., yeast, trub, whatever down the drain. I do, however, usually dump the thick "first dump" of yeast slurry outside on the grass/weeds, but some yeast does go down the drain. I am also mindful of dumping more iodphore/bleach down the drain than necessary. At any rate, I was especially curious to quiz the plumbers on the condition of my system. They said everything looked good, no problems. This is after nearly 20 years of no maintenance! YMMV, YYY. BTW, home septic tanks should be pumped every three to five years. Three hundred dollars once in a while is better than ten times (or more) for system re-hab. NAHTH (no affiliation hope this helps). Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:06:57 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: amount of mash in water Fred wants a formula for figuring mash water and sparge water for 5 and 10 gallon batches. Fred, you're going to get allot of answers here. Here are some good points: 1. Add enough water to the mash so a golf ball sinks VERY slowly to the bottom. (If you can figure out how to tell how fast the ball is sinking, please let me know) This will end up at about 1.3 quarts of water per pound of grist. 2. After the mash, start draining the Mash Tun into your kettle while adding sparge water at the same rate as you are draining. Stop when you collect 7 gallons for a 5 gallon batch or 12 gallons for a 10 gallon batch. How much is that? Read on... Now, if you really want to get confused, you can read Ray Daniels take on how much water to use. He knows a little more about this than me. http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/water.html Also, you can download Promash at http://www.promash.com. You get a free trial version, and it does all the figuring for you. (This is what I do) To buy the software is only 25-30 dollars. Very reasonable. Another plug is for John Palmers Book, http://www.howtobrew.com He tells you all about it too. PS: Don't forget to remove the golf ball. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:05:15 -0500 From: mohrstrom at core.com Subject: Stock Yeasts Steve A. observes: > My local HB shop isn't so keen on WL. It's a high > volume shop, but they have a lot of WLtubes go > out-of-date and they don't even carry the full list. Unless something has changed, I believe your shop is missing a great opportunity to serve its market. White Labs ha(s)(d) a program that would allow a shop to swap expired tubes (3 for 2?) for fresh on a quarterly basis. The requirement was that the shop stock the _entire_ WL line. Downside would be a higher initial investment for the shop, but the upside should be a wider offering, and the assurance to the clientele that the yeast in stock was fresh. Market theory would reward this with greater traffic, higher sales and better profits. Of course, YMMV ... Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:28:38 -0500 From: thurber <thurber at adelphia.net> Subject: What's the easiest way to bottle? I know this is a dumb question. I've looked through the archives and haven't really come up with an answer, though. When I bottle, what I usually do is run the bottles through a sink faucet mounted bottle washer and rinse (and brush) whatever "stuff" may be in the bottle, then cart all of the bottles upstairs to the kitchen dishwasher, and with my wife's permission, put the 54 bottles in and run them through the rinse cycle with no detergent and the heat dryer on. This works out pretty well and I don't get any infected bottles. But, it's too much work... So, the question is, can I get away with, let's say, a rinse with a bottle washer attached to the faucet, then a dip in a bucket of iodophor solution, drip dry, then bottle? I apologize if this question has been asked a million times, as it probably has. Any suggestions to make bottling really easy would be most welcome. I know I could use kegs, but I'd prefer not to. An answer to this on the list might help a few other new brewers as well. Thanks and happy holidays. Fran km1z Burlington Vt Return to table of contents
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