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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Brewing as a profession ("Chad Gould")
  Using an A/C for a beer cooler (Mike Bardallis)
  Corking Gueze (Hayes Antony)
  Bottle Conditioning ("Kenneth Peters")
  Re: Amusing brewery story (Jeff Renner)
  Beer event coordination ("Fred Scheer")
  pumpkin pie beer ("Byron's Yahoo Account")
  Re: Al Capone (Bill Wible)
  Re. WL vs Wyeast (Bill Wible)
  Re: Yeast info pages (Bill Wible)
  Hop bags and bleach (David Towson)


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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:35:32 -0500
From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing as a profession

> And why would you want to take all the risk and expense
> of starting your own so you can either get crushed by AB
> or squashed by the gov't?
> It doesn't make sense.

I don't like the professional brewery career path. :) But brewpubs is
another story. There are too many microbreweries in the US right now... I
honestly think the microbrewery market is saturated in the US at this
point... the "fad" has sort of died out. In its place are the
charcoal-filtered, sweet puke-inducers that seem to be popular among those
who like to get drunk... go figure.

But brewpubs still are around, and several of the ones I know are doing
quite well. I would think that one can operate a good brewpub business... if
you provide *good food* and *good beer*... that diminishes the anti-alcohol
argument (and adds an attraction to your restauraunt). It's hard to argue
that a brewpub who serves classy food and classy beer is promoting teenage
alcoholism and rampant DUIs. Especially when you refuse to serve some of the
"other" products (e.g. no "malt beverages", maybe restaurant hours depending
on the city).

Obviously, the climate differs from place to place in the US and around the
world. Obviously, there's a lot of expense involved in any restaurant. Many
aren't very profitable. This is something though I see people opening for
the love of the beer and food, and doing for the right reasons. There's a
lot of bureaucratic hoops to jump through still, but I personally think it
could be accomplished in many American cities.

It's not all doom and gloom for beer, after all. I'm sure there are plenty
of people that are anti-alcohol of any sort... MADD types perhaps too. But
health statistics are so much more kind though to moderate drinkers (beer or
wine in moderation is healthy for you; next to alcoholics, teetotaler
parents are more likely to have alcoholic children; etc.) that their shrill
speech sort would get slammed down if sensibility spoke up in a louder
voice. In the places where sense does not rule (only some of the US), if one
had the time and the effort, campaigning might be necessary to change
things.

Come to think of it, I've always wondered whether an international brew pub
would do well. I don't know of any.




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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:17:07 -0500
From: Mike Bardallis <dbgrowler at provide.net>
Subject: Using an A/C for a beer cooler

My two cents:

I tried this in Michigan in the summer. It can be fairly
humid here, what with the lakes and all. I had a basement
pantry, three walls made of concrete block, two of which
were outside basement walls. I fitted a thermostat that
could be set to below 50F to a window A/C cut into the
fourth wall, which was made of 2" thick lumber. Set to
55-60, the A/C iced up pretty quick. I added seals and
insulation to the door. Ice. I rigged up an intake for the
A/C which drew the air across an approx 3-4 sq. ft. bed of
dessicant. Iced up a bit slower. I insulated, then stapled
vapor barrier over the ceiling (open joist) and walls. Still
iced up at around 55F, and the huge puddles of condensate
that collected on top of the ceiling vapor barrier quickly
spawned colonies of near-sentient mold. At various points
along the way, the control circuit was tweaked; limits on
compressor duty cycle, delay on fan shutoff to clear ice,
etc. After the mold started demanding its own TV, with
cable, the experiment was discontinued.

I don't think this "experiment" directly contributed to the
demise of my marriage, but it certainly might have been
noted in the list of justifications for canning my a**. You
can get a pretty darn big chest freezer for about $300, and
it will use a lot less electricity. Need more space? Two
pretty darn big chest freezers cost about $600!

Mike Bardallis
Brewing in the shadow of the big tire in
Allen Park, MI


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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:44:14 +0200
From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za>
Subject: Corking Gueze

I opened a bottle of my first attempt at corked gueze last night.
Unfortunately the beer was petilant, rather than highly carbonated as I
would have liked. I have had success with crown caps, but think that corks
look better (and impress the hell out of my mates)

The corks I used were normal wine corks - are champagne corks denser?

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg; RSA


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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:04:59 -0600
From: "Kenneth Peters" <kpeters6 at cox.net>
Subject: Bottle Conditioning

In his book, "Homebrewing Guides", Dave Miller states that in bottle
conditioned beer, the yeast will have fermented the priming sugar within 24
hours and the remaining time is only required for the beer to absorb the CO2.
If Dave is correct then a correct procedure MIGHT look like this: 1- prime
beer and let ferment in bottle at room temperature for 3 days, 2- refrigerate
beer and shake each bottle daily to facilitate CO2 absorbsion. I've searched
the archives on this subject and there seems to be a majority counter opinion
that the fermentation process takes longer and that other significant changes
are occurring at this time. .What is the current thinking on this? If Dave is
right, couldn't one save several weeks from fermentor to bladder :)



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:10:40 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Amusing brewery story

Brewers

In response to a private email request:

>I've been a long-time reader and lurker of HBD.  If I recall, you 
>posted an amusing story about a brewery worker from years past who 
>was asked by his boss to demonstrate his ability to drink a pail of 
>beer.  Either I forgot to save that post or have since lost it.  Do 
>you recall the story??  If you can find it, it might be worth 
>re-posting on the HBD for newer readers who didn't see the original 
>post.  As I think about it, this probably sounds like a letter to 
>Ann Landers to re-print an old column!  Thanks for any help.  Merry 
>Christmas!

Well, this is probably different each time I tell it.

It seems that during the golden age of American lagers (late 19th 
century early 20th), a banker called on a brewery that wanted a loan 
to expand.  The brewery owner was giving the banker a tour and wanted 
to impress him.

"Our lager beer is so healthful and drinkable, why I'll bet you that 
Hans, here, my foreman, can drink a pail of it straight away without 
stopping.  Can you do that, Hans?"

"Chust a minute, if you please, Herr Fehrenbach," replied Hans, who 
then stepped though a door from the brewhouse to a side room.  A 
minute later he returned and said, "OK, Herr Fehrenbach," proceeded 
to the brewery tap, drew a pailful of beer, tipped it to his mouth 
and drank it straight down.

The banker was suitably impressed and the owner beamed proudly with 
his thumbs in his suspenders, thanked Hans, and continued with the 
tour.  Later that day, he spoke to Hans, "Thanks for the 
demonstration, but tell me, why did you leave for a minute before you 
drank the beer?"

Vell, Herr Fehrenbach, I didn't vant to disappoint you mit dat big 
banker man, so first I had to go and make sure I really could do it."


Hope you enjoyed this again.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:31:55 -0600
From: "Fred Scheer" <FHopheads at msn.com>
Subject: Beer event coordination

HI Guys:
The new MCB's President askd me to be the beer
event coordinator. So, now I'm here and don't
really know where to get all the events or
where to look for other than Zymurgy. Is 
Z the only real source for info?
If any of you have beer events going on, please email me,
so I can inform the club.
Thanks for your help,
Fred
Jeff, did you hear about the beer you brewed
10 hours south of your home town?


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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 07:17:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "Byron's Yahoo Account" <btowles at yahoo.com>
Subject: pumpkin pie beer

Ladies and Gentlemen, Wise ones, Learned Sages, I have a question.

I'm interested in doing a pumpkin pie flavored beer. I'm particularly set up
for ales, but I could, theoretically, make a lager, considering it's
wintertime. I'm looking for an all-grain recipe, 10 gallon if possible, but
will make 5 if that's all I can find, that tastes like pumpkin pie. Not
overwhelming, but tasty. Any suggestions or things to look for would be very
much appreciated. Also, if anyone else has a reliable recipe, that would as
well be very much appreciated. I've seen some of the recipes available online,
but most of these are posted prior to tasting, and I'd really like to find a
recipe from someone who's tasted the final product. 

TIA

Byron Towles
New Orleans, LA
Crescent City Homebrewers
http://hbd.org/crescent
[misplaced AR coords go here]


=====
- ---------------------------------------------
The two most common elements in the
universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
- ---------------------------------------------



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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:32:33 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Al Capone


>Remember; at age 32 Al Capone made over $32million
>a year- quite a bit from "penny beers".

Just remember to pay the taxes on it!  They were never
able to convict Al Capone for bootlegging.  They did

Bill



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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:56:37 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re. WL vs Wyeast


>that the whole 'which is better?' debate is a waste of time.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree, and my comments on this have
never been to which is 'better'.

I like both, and as you said, there are individual strains
from each that I like more so than what the other has.
I like many of the White Labs Platinum strains, like the
Bedford British and the Zurich Lager.  And I'm excited
when I hear they're bringing out Orval and Ayinger yeasts!
I use the East Coast Ale and Burton Ale strains regularly
myself.  From Wyeast, I do prefer 1056 over California Ale,
(they are not the same yeast to me) and I use 1275 alot.  I
think their 3068 has it all over White Labs Hefeweizen.
And I am also interested in their new 'Belgian/Canadian Ale',
which is supposed to be Unibroue yeast.

The major concern is that White Labs now all but owns
the yeast market.  Wyeast has been having a number of
problems for some time, including availability, packaging,
and a lack of information about the fact that they also
make 'pitchable' yeast, just like White Labs.

For some reason, whenever anybody thinks of Wyeast, they
automatically think of those old gold 'smack packs'.  Its
understandable, because that's what they became know for,
and got their reputation from.  But times have changed now.
As I said before, people can't be bothered to actually plan
a brew a few days in advance anymore and smack a pack of
yeast.  It's the 'instant gratification' 'we want it right
now' society we live in.

White Labs was the first to make 'pitchable' yeast.  So they
became known quickly for that.  Wyeast has been playing 'catch
up' since.  Everybody automatically thinks of White Labs when
they think of 'pitchable' yeast, same way everybody automatically
thinks of "smack packs" when they think of Wyeast.

White Labs has done an incredible job of advertising and marketing.
They are very well known now.  Meanwhile, as I've said before,
Wyeast has pretty much sat on their reputation as the original
yeast supplier.  They have no marketing programs, and it doesn't
even look like they're trying to compete.

White Labs has a 'freshness assurance' program, where they allow
shops to return a percentage of expired tubes that don't sell.
This makes it easier and more comfortable for shops to order their
product.  I get a full set - one of every tube they have available -
once a quarter.  And now I just order my 'extras' from my regular
supplier.

They give away posters and yeast selection charts by the thousands.
Last time we had a contest, THEY CALLED ME to offer prizes!!  If you
go to their website right now, they have a program running where
you can exchange empty White Labs vials for merchandise and 'awards'.
You can exchange empty tubes for more yeast, hats, T-Shirts, and
if you get 5,000 empties, Chris White will come to your house, brew
with you, and bring the yeast!

They aggressively market, and Wyeast has not done any of this.

The major suppliers Like LD Carlson stopped carrying Wyeast a couple
months ago.  They switched entirely to White Labs.  I'm told its
'one or the other' due to refrigerator space concerns, and everybody
has told them they want White Labs.

I want both!!  I'd like to not see there be only one yeast supplier.
I think there's room for 2, and I like having choices.

Bill



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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:02:31 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Yeast info pages


Have you seen:

http://www.skotrat.com/brewrats/yeast.cfm

This is the one I always look at.

Bill



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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:06:35 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Hop bags and bleach

While referring to hop bags in HBD 4117, Jeff Renner mentioned, "I always 
boil mine before use, and soak it [in] a bleach solution when I remove it. "

The hop bags I've seen are made of Nylon, which is damaged by Chlorine 
bleach.  If yours are Nylon,  I hope you don't use a very long soak, and 
you rinse them well afterwards.

Dave
Bel Air, MD



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