---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  RE: Using an A/C for a beer cooler ("JZ")
  Dry hopping in cornys ("Michael Maag")
  RE: pumpkin pie beer (keith)
  Re: Bottle Conditioning (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Brewing as a profession ("Mike")
  Re: Cider clearing.. how much? ("Jim Dunlap")
  Re: Hop bags and bleach (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Bottle Conditioning (Michael Grice)
  Woodworking - Beer Case Plans? (Bill Wible)
  RE: Bottle Conditioning ("Sven Pfitt")
  Gott cooler thermometer placement ("jeff")
  MCAB Qualifier and entry info? (Bev Blackwood II)
  Re: Yeast info pages (Rama Roberts)
  Converting to natural gas ("Jason")
  Old Water Questions (AJ)
  Head Retention ("Jeff Stith")
  Cylindroconical Fermenter (Jennifer/Nathan Hall)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* The HBD Logo Store is now open!
* http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:36:18 -0800
From: "JZ" <jamilz at citlink.net>
Subject: RE: Using an A/C for a beer cooler

Unlike a few others, I've had tremendous success with my A/C walkin-cooler.
I heard all sorts of horror stories about why it wouldn't work from lots of
different folks. However, it was Regan at Beer, Beer and Morebeer that
explained how to make it work.

First, he explained that an A/C unit didn't pull moisture out of the air as
well as the commercial units, but it DID pull moisture out of the air. The
trick is to do three things, seal your walkin space so no moisture gets in
(a continuous moisture barrier), insulate the heck out of it, and step down
the temperature in stages so the unit doesn't ice up.

I have a three different temp probes on my 4 x 6 x 7 foot walkin cooler.
I've got the cooler working at 36F (measured on the beer bottles) for the
past 12 months. One is a high/low on the air coming out of the unit. Last
week it registered 2.3F! (Of course, outside ambient was around 45, so that
helped.) Yes, I'm sure I'm pulling liquid through the compressor, but I'm
betting that $150 clearance A/C unit will go at least 5 years before it
breaks, probably 20.

I bought a 12,000 btu clearance unit from Fry's for $150. I opened the front
panel and pulled the thermostat wire and routed it directly to the switch,
bypassing the thermostat. I then hooked up a Ranco temp controller from
http://www.morebeer.com which I slowly worked down to 36F over several days.

I live near Sacramento, California and last summer there were plenty of hot,
drippy, 100F+ days, with at least one week around 110F. The unit never
skipped a beat.

The walkin is actually half of a shed. I filled the stud walls with regular
fiberglass insulation, then put two 2" polyurethane sheets to give me 4" all
around. I sealed the seams with that funky pink tape that makes an airtight
seal after it sits for a day. (About $11 per roll, I think.)

For the door, I made a bevel cut through the panels, staggering them about 3
inches. I put a little weatherstrip gasket in there and used more pink tape.

Thanks Reagan!!! You saved me from buying a $1500 used walkin!!!

I've got approximately 60 cases of beer in there sitting at 36F. Why I'm
doing that is a whole other story. :-)

JZ




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:15:24 -0500
From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.state.va.us>
Subject: Dry hopping in cornys

It is important to note, even with a very tight weave nylon bag,
do not use pelletized hops.  Only whole flower hops or plugs
are suitable.  The powered pelletized hops will filter through
the bag, and you will have green beer.  After a week of drawing
off a pint each evening as a nightcap (weird dreams) as the powder
settled out, the beer was great though. 

Mike Maag, in the Shenandoah Valley, VA.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:54:20 -0500
From: keith <kellum at adamsadv.com>
Subject: RE: pumpkin pie beer

Byron

You'll probably end up with a better beer if you forget the pumpkin and 
just use the spices to get the pumpkin pie taste.
I seem to remember researching the same subject a few years ago and 
finding that other brewers had come to this conclusion.

Cheers!
Keith 



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:01:26 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Bottle Conditioning

"Kenneth Peters" <kpeters6 at cox.net> writes:

>In his book, "Homebrewing Guides", Dave Miller states that in bottle
>conditioned beer, the yeast will have fermented the priming sugar within 24
>hours and the remaining time is only required for the beer to absorb the CO2.
>If Dave is correct then a correct procedure MIGHT look like this: 1- prime
>beer and let ferment in bottle at room temperature for 3 days, 2- refrigerate
>beer and shake each bottle daily to facilitate CO2 absorbsion. I've searched
>the archives on this subject and there seems to be a majority counter opinion
>that the fermentation process takes longer and that other significant changes
>are occurring at this time. .What is the current thinking on this? If Dave is
>right, couldn't one save several weeks from fermentor to bladder :)

I still think that Dave is full of CO2 on this.  If it were the case, 
then you would notice a really big HISS! when you opened a bottle two 
days after priming.  As it is, you get barely a pff.

As CO2 is produced molecule by molecule by the yeast as it 
metabolizes the sugar (also molecule by molecule), I cannot imagine 
any mechanism whereby the CO2 would not go immediately into solution 
in situ rather than rise to the top of the bottle and then dissolve 
later.

Have any of you Nashville brewers asked Dave what HIS current 
thinking is on this?

BTW, I do think that occasional tipping of primed bottles to mix the 
sugary beer and yeast helps accelerate carbonation, but even that is 
probably of minimal help.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:12:26 -0800
From: "Mike" <Mike at Bronosky.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing as a profession

I wonder if one of the major problems with brewpubs is not the same as for
any business.
(These may be wrong, I'm going from memory, but as a general statement they
are true.)
Most new businesses do not survive 1 year not alone 5 years. The reasons
they don't survive: not enough start-up money, too much debt, unrealistic
business plan.

A local brewpub started something like 5 or 6 years ago. They bought the
best German 10 Hexaliter brewery there was, $450,000. OUCH! This was put in
a nice restauraunt. The kitchen was A/Ced, most of the cooling equipment had
heat exchangers on the roof of a 5 stroy building taken there with water.
The ventilation system, someone could smoke next to you and most likely you
would not smell it. Nice. Problem was, when they got through building the
facilities they were something like $2,000,000 in debt. That is OK in a town
with enough customers that would patronize it.

Well, when they opened the doors they envited all the doctors, lawers,
government officials and other big-wigs but the union leaders were snubbed.
I know, a good friend of mine was president of the local CSX IBEW. Now who
drinks most of your beer, doctors, lawers, government officials and other
big-wigs or the everyday hourly worker? They also hired a German brewmaster.
This brewmaster used wheat yeast in all the beers except for the one lager
that was made. It sold do good they couldn't keep it in stock. Instead of
buying another lagering tank they stopped brewing it. A half million dollar
brewery and not a lagering vessel to be had. Piss poor management!

All the ales had a wheat beer taste. And the brewmaster would set at the bar
and drink, guess what beer. Miller Lite. Would some one pick the guy up that
just fainted.

What I'm saying is, of all the brewpubs that make it and don't make it. I
wonder if the reason is because the public care for brewpubs or because of
management's poor planning and management. The fact that brewpubs start-up
and survive proves that they can make it. Too many managers and investors
are under the impression that "If you buiild it they will come."
Yes they will but if your product, service and priceing is bad...

Oh, the cost of a pint of the above brewpub's beer was in the low teens.
Right where it should have been.

Mike

- ---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:22:47 -0800
From: "Jim Dunlap" <jdpils at attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Cider clearing.. how much?

Greetings,

I made my first 5 gal batch of cider last year with unpasturized cider from
a local mill.
I added 5tsp of potassium metabisulfite mixed according to instruction (I
think it yielded 75ppm) and 1.5 tsp pectic enzyme 24 hrs before oxygenating
and
pitching my yeast, WL English Cider from vial.  The ferment went for about 4
weeks total SG=1050 FG=.999.  I bottled with 1 ounce of pasturized cider.  I
never recall the cider ever being cloudy.  It did take a long time for
sulfur to dimimish.

I hope this helps.  Either it beginners luck or great instructions from my
local homebrew shop, Mountain Homebrew Supply & Wine Supply (PS - My club
Cascade brewer's Guild meets there and I think its an outstanding shop)

Cheers,

Jim Dunlap
Woodinville WA





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:29:36 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Hop bags and bleach

David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> writes from Bel Air, MD

>The hop bags I've seen are made of Nylon, which is damaged by Chlorine
>bleach.  If yours are Nylon,  I hope you don't use a very long soak, and
>you rinse them well afterwards.

Good to point that out.

Mine appear to be nylon, but the bleach solution isn't very strong, 
and I must confess that I don't bleach them every time, only when 
they've become stained by the beer.  I soak them in the keg full of 
bleach water, and, of course, bleach is dangerous to stainless steel, 
too.  But, again, a fairly weak solution and short contact time (few 
hours) is probably the reason I haven't had problems.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:29:49 -0600
From: Michael Grice <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Re: Bottle Conditioning

"Kenneth Peters" <kpeters6 at cox.net> wrote:

>In his book, "Homebrewing Guides", Dave Miller states that in bottle
>conditioned beer, the yeast will have fermented the priming sugar within
>24 hours and the remaining time is only required for the beer to absorb
>the CO2.  If Dave is correct then a correct procedure MIGHT look like

[...]

I'm not entirely sure I buy this (although if true I think you had an
interesting idea). For instance, I bottled my last batch the Sunday
before last. A week after I bottled it, I opened one. It had little or
no carbonation, and tasted sweet still. Wednesday night I opened another
one, and it had begun to carbonate (albeit not completely).

Temperature shouldn't be a factor, as the beer is stored upstairs
against an interior wall, where we keep the temperature fairly warm.

I would buy the idea that the yeast ferments all the priming sugar
within 24 hours, but it seems likely to me that you're likely to have
some lag time depending on the yeast population in the bottled beer and
on the health of the yeast.

This is admittedly anecdotal evidence, and I should have taken hydrometer
readings from my last two samples to support my position. Maybe on the
next batch...


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:37:26 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Woodworking - Beer Case Plans?


Hello, Everybody.

I'm looking for woodworking plans to build
one of those old wooden beer crates to store
Grolsh bottles in.  The cardboard boxes they
come in are cheap and fall apart after not much
use.  

So far, all I can find is:
http://realbeer.com/spencer/beercase.html

And it looks like this is a 6 x 4 (24) case
for 12oz bottles.  I need a 4 x 5 (20) case
for Grolsch bottles, which are a little bigger.

Anybody know of anyplace that sells these cases
commercially, either as a built crate or as a kit
you can build yourself?

Bill





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:27:26 -0500
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Bottle Conditioning

Kenneth Peters says;

>In his book, "Homebrewing Guides", Dave Miller states that in bottle
>conditioned beer, the yeast will have fermented the priming sugar >within 
>24 hours and the remaining time is only required for the beer >to absorb 
>the CO2.

So the CO2 is all in the headspace?

If this were true, when you popped the cap off a bottle of beer after 24 
hrs, it would be under excessivly high pressure and make lots of Pffttt 
noise. Not so. The CO2 is absorbed into solution as it it generated.

Think of what would happen if this were not the case..

Just for rough calculations, assume a 12oz bottle with 1 oz headspace and 
3V/V carbonation. You would have 36 ounce volumes of CO2 compressed into a 
1oz volume of headspace. At STP we have 15PSI, so the 36 volumes would be an 
astronomical 540PSI pressure! Talk about bottle bombs!

I have opened bottles after three days and not gotten any significant 
pressure release noise. Recapped and a week later it was carbonated and did 
give pressure release noise. This is directly opposite what Dave Miller 
writes.

Dave be wrong.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:13:25 -0600
From: "jeff" <philosophersstone at gbronline.com>
Subject: Gott cooler thermometer placement

I use a 5 gallon Gott cooler for my mash/lauter
 tun. I bought a Thermothingy from Zymico and used 
it to install my metal stem thermometer. It works 
very well with no leaks. My problem is that I think 
I installed the thermometer too high up the side of 
the cooler. I located it approximately 3/4 up the 
side from the bottom, where there is a flat spot 
with no ridges. Unfortunately, this puts the 
thermometer just below the liquid level (maybe 1-3 
inches) for most of my mashes. I fear that my 
temperature readings are not accurate due to the 
thermometer location. What do you say? If I move 
it, how should I patch the hole that would leave? 

Jeff Pursley
Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers
Tulsa, OK


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:42:14 -0600
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: MCAB Qualifier and entry info?

Does anyone here know when (or if) the MCAB will be posting entry 
deadlines and shipping details on their website?  Thanks to a good year 
for our club competitively we have quite a few area MCAB Qualifiers, 
but a lot of them are first-timers.  The sooner we could get our hands 
on some details, the better.  We'd also like to see a list of 
qualifiers, if possible.

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
Competition Coordinator
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:12:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast info pages

Bill writes:

>Have you seen:
>
>http://www.skotrat.com/brewrats/yeast.cfm

Very nice! But its still missing lots of stuff, like:

WL Belgian/Canadian Ale = Unibroue
WL German Bock = Ayinger
WL Zurich Lager = Samichlaus

Any Brewrats out there? I'll help compile the info if you can update the pages. 

- --rama



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:49:46 -0600
From: "Jason" <jhayes75 at cox.net>
Subject: Converting to natural gas

I was wondering if anyone has successfully converted from propane to natural
gas burners?

 I drilled my cajun cooker orifice to 1/8 inch. This seems to work but would
like to know how i can increase btu. There is a 4 inch blue flame and the
rest is yellow. I used a needle valve to regulate the gas. This might be all
there is or maybe someone knows more.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:54:35 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Old Water Questions

RE Jim Dunlap's questions in #4115 (sorry it took so long to get around 
to it): At the levels of hardness mentioned the water is still soft and, 
assuming that there isn't lots of sodium or potassium in it (which I 
wouldn't expect as I believe most of the water in your area comes from 
rain runoff) it shouldn't be too alkaline. As it is actually the 
alkalinity that one worries about you shouldn't be concerned about the 
small increase in pH. The increased hardness  will help to offset the pH 
somewhat and I would expect mash pH with the "harder" water to be less 
that the pH earlier (though not by much). Given low alkalinity it should 
require very little acid to tweak the pH to exactly where you want it so 
that carrying over the flavor of lactate shouldn't be a concern. I still 
prefer the "natural" method of adding a bit of crystal for this job 
(though fully recognize that it's a personal preference which you may 
not share).

With such soft water and any high kilned malt at all I'd expect low pH 
to be more of a problem and apparently it is. There are several ways to 
combat this and I think most brewers would reach for chalk (calcium 
carbonate) as their first choice as it neutralized excess acid and 
augments calcium at the same time. The problem is that it is not very 
soluble so adding it to tap water (especially at higher pH) results in 
very little dissolving. Thus you wind up adding it to the mash as a 
solid anyway so you might as well forget about trying to get it to 
dissolve in the mash water (which you can do by sparging with CO2 in 
imitation of the way nature gets it to dissolve but that's a PITA) and 
just put it in the mash. It still isn't very soluble (it must react with 
the mash acids as they are evolved) and because of this it can take a 
long time for you to observe its effect, the danger being that you will 
be tempted to keep adding more and more only to find that you eventually 
overshoot.

You might want to try "pickling lime" which is just calcium hydroxide as 
sold to cooks (look in the canning section of the super market) for the 
purpose of neutralizing some of the acidity in pickles. It is about 100 
times as soluble in water as chalk (1.8 grams per liter cold water as 
opposed to .015 grams per liter for chalk). If you make up a slurry, let 
it settle a bit (you don't have to wait until it's clear) and decant the 
liquid you'll have a solution with some alkaline authority in it. This 
you can add to the mash and you should see faster response to your 
additions. You could add it to the mash water as well. This would be the 
preferred way once you figure out how much is needed but it is the mash 
tun you tune for. If you have a reasonably accurate balance you can do 
test mashes in which you take a pound of the grist and add to it a quart 
and a half (or whatever ratio you like) of water at strike temp to which 
you have added x mg of Ca(OH)2/gal and check the pH. If still too low, 
try again with water at 2x mg/gal and so on until you get the desired 
strike pH or close to it. Then scale up for the entire recipe and treat 
the entire volume of water.  Note that the pH of water treated with 
Ca(OH)2 is definitely going to be high but again it's not the pH of the 
water, it's the pH it creates in the mash tun. As a final comment 
Ca(OH)2 also contains beneficial calcium.

A.J.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:02:57 -0600
From: "Jeff Stith" <jstith at kc.rr.com>
Subject: Head Retention

Hi All,

I'm on only my third batch ever.  It's a honey wheat which, as good as it
tastes, it doesn't seem to want to hold much of a head!  From the beginning,
I'm getting about 1/2 inch which quickly settles down to nothing within a
minute.  Carbonation is good though.

I fermented it 6 days in a primary fermentor and 9 days in a secondary.  I
did the 5 oz. corn sugar boiled in two cups water mixed in before bottling.

I usually drink the beer chilled to around 50 degrees F then poured into a
chilled or frozen glass.

Thing is, this has been the same on my two previous brews: an Irish Red Ale
and Winterfest.  As a newbie, what can I do to improve head retention and
increase that creamy foam head from the bottle to the glass?

Thanks!

Jeff S.
Lee's Summit, Missouri


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

 -Edmund Burke




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:23:45 -0500
From: Jennifer/Nathan Hall <hallzoo at comcast.net>
Subject: Cylindroconical Fermenter

Just racked my first-time-ever-in-the-cyclindroconical to a keg and let me be
the first to say it's a hell of alot easier than siphoning! I built this
fermenter from Toledo Metal Spinning's 12.2 gal hopper and the Zymico
conversion parts. 10 minutes to sanitize the keg and that's all it took. No
messing with racking canes and spewing sanitizer all over the kitchen walls
trying to wrestle a 6 foot long piece of tubing into submission! The beer was
also much clearer after two weeks than I've ever seen in a carboy - dumping
the trub and yeast once per day starting at about day 7 of fermentation
definitely seems to have worked. Flavor is excellent, although I would
attribute this to sound brewing practice rather than to fermenting in
stainless. For those of you thinking about this setup, I would recommend it.
One more thing - I'm using the hopper lid that TMS has designed for this
particular hopper (14 ga. SS) without any type of pressure seal. Maybe I got
lucky on this first batch, but there appears to be no increased airborne
contamination risk. Lagering may be a different story.



Return to table of contents

---