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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Grains of paradise vs ginger (TOLLEY Matthew)
  will "Shurflo pump" cause HSA (Andrew Larkin)
  re: WY3787/head retentio ("Steve Alexander")
  re: WL vs Wyeast & others ("Steve Alexander")
  RE: Food safe acrylic cement (Donald and Melissa Hellen)
  re: Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezerre: ("Mark Tumarkin")
  RE:Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer (Bill_Rehm)
  Re: Electric Brewing ("Matthew D. Schultz")
  Water results.. ("Eyre")
  Where to buy Gott/Rubbermaid Coolers ("Mike")
  RE: OxyClean (Will Wilson)
  Boil Temperature Seals ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: Wit recipe (Renner) (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer ("Rorik Melberg")
  Re: Grains of Paradise (David Towson)
  Re: Electric brewing ("Drew Avis")
  Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer (LJ Vitt)
  RE: Grains of Paradise (Brian Lundeen)
  RE: Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: brewing as a job ("greg man")
  mashing & system types (Pete Limosani)
  Re: Food safe acrylic cement (David Towson)
  Zywiec Recipe? (Dave Howell)
  brewing in Phoenix, chest freezers ("dave holt")
  Re:  Electric brewing (Bill Tobler)
  lambic failures (Keith Busby)


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Date:  Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:01:28 +1100
From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au>
Subject: Grains of paradise vs ginger

From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>

>I looked-up grains of paradise recently, and found that it is a relative of

>the ginger family.  So I wonder whether including both ginger and g-of-p in

>the same concoction is like having ginger and ginger.

Nah - they might be related, but they don't taste the same.  Think about
parsley, for example - it tastes nothing like its relatives in the Apiaceae
family, like coriander, fennel, dill and cumin.

The ginger family (Zingiberaceae) contains 1500 plants, including turmeric,
galangal and cardamom, none of which taste like ginger.  Grains of Paradise
(afromomum melegueta) (apparently) don't taste like ginger either.  They
release strawberry and banana aromas when crushed, and a Portuguese
acquaintance tells me they make a wicked piri piri sauce. 

Cheers
 ....Matt...
http://canberrabrewers.org

 



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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:41:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin at yahoo.com>
Subject: will "Shurflo pump" cause HSA

www.shurflo.com has data sheets on all their pumps, including maximum
liquid temperatures.  I'm not an expert on HSA, but I can't see how it
could happen unless the pump was sucking air in and adding it to the
liquid being pumped, which is not what pumps are supposed to do.




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:16:36 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: WY3787/head retentio

David Towson asks ...

>In HBD 4120, Steve Alexander notes: "WY3787 has given me several terrific
>results too but it's very temp sensitive."
>
>I'm very eager to try this yeast, Steve.  Please tell us more.

I've really enjoyed using this yeast at the low end of it's temp range
(<65F), but I think the estery character is too strong even at 70F !  It
seems to be a signifcant fusel producer at higher temps w/hi-grav brews (but
I'm pretty sensitive to fusels), but it's fine at lower temps.   The
phenolic aspect of this yeast is nicely subdued when I've used it, but this
is only partly attributable to the yeast.

- ----------

 Darrell notes ...

> I generally add a pound of wheat malt to most all of my brews for head
> retention.

That's a lot of wheat malt and the wheat flavor will push some beers
out-of-style.  I'd suggest 4-6 oz of wheat malt else 3-4oz of raw wheat
to obtain excellent head & body w/o too much flavor.   I'm not with the
style police and I'd probably enjoy 1lb of w-malt in a pseudo-APA, but
I'd keep such a large amount away from an IPA or bitter - wouldn't taste
right.

 -S



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 02:48:09 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject:  re: WL vs Wyeast & others

Bill Wible posts a lot of nice details on his yeast experience.  Tho'
we disagree a bit on our preferences his characterizations seem
dead-on to me.

>I own a homebrew shop in Phila.  I base the comments I made on
>my shop and my sales.  I sell 4 or 5 tubes of White Labs for
>every tube or pack of Wyeast.

Wow - that's serious, but doesn't reflect what I am told  by local
shops, some w/ significant mail-order biz.

>Never had luck with 1968 (Special London Ale).

It requires special handling to get good results.  Pitching
big is a req and so is rousing.    I place a carboy on a stir
plate and the attenuation is completely normal despite
the flocculence.

>They have a
>new English Cask Bitter, which is numbered 1768.  It's supposed to
>be like 1968, but more flocculent.  They also have a new 1068 (I think)
>which is supposed to be similar to 1028, but a little different.

The wyeast website shows WY1768 'ESB' is a 'seasonal strain'
only available in Oct-Dec less flocculent than wy1968.  The
cask yeast is WY1026 - a Jan-Mar seasonal.  I don't see 1068,
but WY1098 and WY1099 are both listed as Whitbread yeasts
and WY1318 is LondonAleIII.

>I do use White Labs Burton Ale, which I've had good luck with.

That's the WLP023.  I haven't given it a fair chance but I prefer the
wy1968 so far.
- ---
Does anyone have a description of the two SafLager dry yeasts re
flavor & performance ?

 -S
 


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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 06:11:40 -0500
From: Donald and Melissa Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net>
Subject: RE: Food safe acrylic cement

Kevin McDonough asks if there is a food safe acrylic cement.

There is a FDA-approved silicone sealant that should work. If you
can't find that, you might consider aquarium sealer. It will take a
day or two to cure and get rid of the acetic acid odor, but it should
be safe for what you are using it for.

Don Hellen



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 06:33:10 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezerre: 

Victor asks:
"I have been considering getting a chest freezer to do my fermenting/
laagering in (Phoenix is hot in the summer), but I started thinking; How the
heck am I gonna lift 5 gallons of wort into a chest freezer? (bad
shoulders).
Should I use one of the pumps that has been mentioned in earlier posts?  I
can't really think of any other way..."

One of our club members recently solved the same problem by hanging a pulley &
rope above his cooler. He used a type of pulley that when you pull & stop, the
carboy (in a plastic milk crate) stays put, allowing you to shift your grip
onehanded while the carboy stays in place till you pull again. Sorry, but I
don't know what this type of pulley is called, but it worked great, providing
an excellent solution for this problem.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:35:21 -0600
From: Bill_Rehm at eFunds.Com
Subject: RE:Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer

Just get yourself a small block and tackle and mount it to the ceiling
above the freezer.  Then just hook it up to the handles on the keg and
pull'r on up and down.  I have not done this myself, I never remember to
look at Fleet Farm for a block and tackle but I think it should work.




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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 7:57:42 -0600
From: "Matthew D. Schultz" <matt.schultz at tds.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Brewing

 -I've been a lurker on HBD for a while, and this is my
first post....

Glad to see we're not the only one's out there with these
questions. If you dig around in the archives, many of your
questions can easily be answered. Fortunately, the RIMS my
friend and I have been working on is nearing completion (I
still have to build my hopback and counterflow), and we
may be able to provide some answers based on our
experiences, redesigns, corrected headaches, and lost
$$$...

>I have read a number of postings regarding electric
>brewing.  I already have a RIMS system with a 240 volt,
>4500w watt, low density hot water heater element that I
>run at 120 volts and does the job well. I would like to
>heat my sparge water and boil my wort electrically as
>well.  I brew 10 gallon batches, which translates to
>roughly 12 gallons of wort before boil. well  My
>questions are as follows:

>Do I still need to use a low watt density element for
>both the sparge water and boiling kettle?

My answer for this would be no for your sparge water -
especially if you're using a three tier system. Since
you'll be using nothing more than water for the sparge,
you don't have to worry about carmelization  or scorching
on your element, so you can use a high density heater. We
use a 4500 watt element on our system, and turn on the
heat to my sparge water about 20 to 30 minutes before
we're ready to sparge. That gives us plenty of time to
heat the 7 gallons or so of water in the water tank to 170
degrees. With a lower watt, 120V element, it's nearly
twice as long.

As far as the boil kettle, I don't have an answer for you,
as we designed our RIM system with a steam jacketed boil
kettle, rather than using direct heat from an element. Our
thoughts for doing this were three-fold. First, I got two
20-gallon stainless steel, jacketed kettles for a six-pack
of home brew. Second, we didn't want to damage our
jacketed vessel by drilling a hole though it in order to
mount an element. Third, our thought that the steam
produced from our boiler (heated by a 240V, 3000 watt
elelment) would provide an evenly distrubuted heat to the
wort. I have read that high density heat will lead to
carmelization and scorching of the wort, so you may want
to proceed with some caution. For reference material on
electric systems I would go to the following link:

http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/plasticbrew/electric.html

>Do I still run at 120 volts even though the element is
>rated at 240 volts for both sparge water and boiling
>kettle?

Doing so will reduce the probablity of scorching your
wort, but increase your time to boil.

>How many watts is necessary to bring 12 gallons of wort
>to boil in a reasonable
>amount of time?

Well, in our experience with 120V elements, I would rent
or buy the Lord of the Rings DVD and watch it at length.
By that time you get two thirds into it, you may want to
pause it to see if you're at a boil yet.

Hope this helps!

 -Matt Schultz




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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:03:15 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Water results..

Hi all!

These are the water test results I just found while rummaging around in the
files here at the homestead.. are these of any use to me? Anything pop out
as being undesirable or outright "bad" that I should take care of, from a
beer making standpoint?

PH: 7.78
Turbidity: 1.7
Chlorine Residual: ND

Nitrite N: <.05
Nitrate N: .42
Iron: .05
Manganese: ND
Sulfate: 5
Sodium: 13
Hardness: 44
Chloride 2

ND=Not Detected

Mean anything to anyone? All replies welcomed, thanks.

Mike E.
554.8, 89.2 Apparent Rennarian
Barkhamsted, CT

P.S. while I'm here.. anyone else from CT in this place? I looked all over
the clubs and groups and such online and in the mags, but there's no clubs
out this way, and I'd love to get a hold of a club or a group of people and
discuss the all-grain aspect of this all which I'd love to get in on. I'd
like to see an all-grain setup boil first, though.. anywho..



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:14:49 -0800
From: "Mike" <Mike at Bronosky.com>
Subject: Where to buy Gott/Rubbermaid Coolers

Rubbermaid may have bought out Gott. May be the other way around. Anyway...

I bought my cooler at a local "feed and hardware store" now affialiated with
Southern States. This hardware store also caters to contractors so I would
imagine that a store that sels alot to contractors probably carries the
bigger coolers. Besides homebrewers, what people need coolers.

Mike


- ---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 06:24:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Will Wilson <mastrbrewr at nc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: OxyClean

I have recently started cleaning my carboys with the Clorox version of
OxyClean. I thoroughly rinse the carboy out after racking the beer
out of it, then I add 2 scoops of OxyClean to 2 gallons very warm water.
I shake the heck out of the carboy to dissolve all of the OxyClean
before topping up the carboy with more warm water. Let sit overnight
and then rinse. Works great for me.


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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:13:32 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Boil Temperature Seals

"Parker Dutro" asked, "My question is does anyone know
what material is used to seal the hole around the thermometer?  Also,
what sort of washer or o-ring will I need to seal the nut up against the
inside of the kettle wall?  Something that can handle boil temps easily?"


I use a lot of DAP #8641 Silicone Sealant.  It is food grade and good to
400F.  Sometimes you can find it in small tubes.  I just but the caulking
gun size at Lowes.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:14:58 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wit recipe (Renner)

>David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> writes from Bel Air, MD
>Subject: Re: Wit recipe (Renner)
>
>In HBD 4121, Jeff Renner noted: "I make an unsoured witbier with fresh
>ginger, coriander, cardomom and grains of paradise.  No orange peel."
>
>I looked-up grains of paradise recently, and found that it is a relative of
>the ginger family.  So I wonder whether including both ginger and g-of-p in
>the same concoction is like having ginger and ginger.

They aren't at all alike in flavor.  Grains of paradise are aromatic 
and peppery.  They are fairly closely related to cardamom.

I use them for a subliminal minor note for complexity.  BTW, they 
were popular centuries ago for flavoring beer.  After I entered my 
ginger wit in the Boston Beer Co.'s Long Shot competition in the mid 
90's, they came out with their summer ale spiced with grains of 
paradise.  I wonder if my beer had some influence on that as it had 
three judge sheet returned (my other entry had only one).  I suspect 
that it got passed up the chain command at Boston Beer Co.  It was a 
pretty damn good batch and too mid scores as high as mid 40's in 
different competitions that year.  If nothing else, grains of 
paradise is a great ingredient for marketing.

A great spice reference is Gernot Katzer's Spice Pages at 
http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/index.html (grains of 
paradise are (is?) at 
http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/Afra_mel.html

The ginger family 
http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/spice_bot.html#Zingiberaceae 
has several aromatic members that are used for spices but which do 
not taste alike.  The orange powder turmeric used in Indian cooking 
(and others) is the ground rhizome of a member of this family. 
Ginger root is also a rhizome.  Think how different these two spices 
taste.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:16:36 -0700
From: "Rorik Melberg" <rorikmelberg at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer

Victor,

Good to hear from another brewer in Phoenix.

If you were lagering in Corny Kegs, you could use CO2 pressure to move it 
into a clean keg already in the freezer.

Or you could call me over and I could move it for you... ;)

Rorik J. Melberg
Phoenix, Az.
[1638.9, 258] Apparent Rennerian





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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:41:55 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Grains of Paradise

Thanks to Jeff Renner for answering my query concerning grains of 
paradise.  I have been curious to try this spice ever since I learned about 
it while perusing recipes a couple weeks ago.  Where do you get it, Jeff?

I quite agree with Jeff's recommendation, "A great spice reference is 
Gernot Katzer's Spice Pages at 
http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/index.html ".  It's an 
excellent reference that I mentioned in my December column in the Libation 
Association of Northern Maryland newsletter.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:42:27 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Electric brewing

Jim deVries asks about electric brewing.  I'm no expert, Jim, but I do have
an all-electric system that I built with lots of help from folks on the HBD,
HBD forum, RCB, and locally.  I'm sure others will chime in, but here's my
take on your questions:

> Do I still need to use a low watt density element for both the sparge
water and
> boiling kettle?
Maybe for peace of mind - a local guy uses regular (short) elements, and his
beer doesn't taste scorched.  I use low watt density elements, and they seem
to work well.  They cost about the same around here, so I went with the low
watt density "just in case".

> Do I still run at 120 volts even though the element is rated at 240 volts
for
> both sparge water and boiling kettle?
I don't think you'll get enough power at 120V to boil.  For 5 gal batches,
maybe, but probably not for 10 gals.

> How many watts is necessary to bring 12 gallons of wort to boil in a
reasonable
> amount of time?
I find 6000W to work well, and it's about what you can draw off a 30A dryer
outlet (Bill Tobbler says 4500W works fine).  It's amazing to watch the
thermometer steadily climbing, climbing... I can heat mash-in water in 19
min (60 to 170F), and my wort comes to a boil about 2 min after I finish the
sparge, if I have the elements on during the sparge.

Cheers!
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca


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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:04:44 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer


Victor from Phoenix asked about how to go about lifting 
fermenters out of a chest freezer.

Victor, you didn;t say if you are using carboys or other
types of fermenters.  

One person I know uses a overhead pully to lift carboys
or cornie kegs out of his chest freezer.  He has the
freezer in an unfinished basement, so the could attach
a couple of pullies to the floor joist overhead.

He uses carboy handles to hook the rope onto.  That part
scares me - I think the neck could break off the carboy.
I see some adds for carboy slings that would make better
sense to me.

One would need to be able to 
1) pull down on a rope to lift the carboy out of the freezer, 
2) hold it in that position and put a piece of sturdy plywood 
   over the freezer opening,
3) lower the carboy onto the plywood.

Depending on your situration, the pump idea might be better.

Another idea: Get a brewing partner you has a good back and
shoulders.

I'm part of a wine making group that uses 15 gal demijohns as
secondary and later fermenters.  The batches take 4 or 5
demijohns each.  Until just recently, racking required two
poeple to lift a demijohn up onto a stable platform.  We
just startd to use a pump.  Why such large batches - to be
able to fill a 60 gal oak barrel.  There are around 18 poeple
in the group.


=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:13:08 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Grains of Paradise


> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:52:14 -0500
> From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Wit recipe (Renner)
> 
> I looked-up grains of paradise recently, and found that it is 
> a relative of 
> the ginger family.  So I wonder whether including both ginger 
> and g-of-p in 
> the same concoction is like having ginger and ginger.

Tomatoes and Belladonna are both part of the Nightshade family, yet I think
you would agree that substituting the latter in your favorite pasta sauce
recipe would yield very different results. ;-)

I have used G of P a few times now in Belgian and wheat beers, and I haven't
perceived anything gingery about them. Just my minor data point.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:35:30 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Lifting 5 Gal into Chest Freezer

Victor asks, "I have been considering getting a chest freezer to do my
fermenting/laagering in (Phoenix is hot in the summer), but I started
thinking; How the heck am I gonna lift 5 gallons of wort into a chest
freezer? (bad shoulders). Should I use one of the pumps that has been
mentioned in earlier posts?  I can't really think of any other way..."

I too have this problem with my chest freezer and a weak back.  First, with
carboys I put them into plastic milk crates; that makes handling much
easier.  Second I then moved back to plastic fermenters (buckets).  This
makes it much easier to lift and move.  If this hadn't solved my problem I
planned to implement a block and tackle on a swing arm.  But so far the
plastic fermenters work fine.  If my back gives out, then I'll put the
pulleys to work.

Dave Houseman





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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:54:04 -0500
From: "greg man" <dropthebeer at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: brewing as a job


Hi all this is greg again thanks for all the reply's both privite and posted 
about brewing as a job.

The question I asked though was directed to brewers in the trade, guess not 
to many read the hbd. Oh well it's there loss I get some of my greatest 
ideas just reading the daily posts.

Any way the discussion surrounding my question seemed to lean more on the 
subject of starting a brewery or brewpub? That really was not what I 
intended but spurned some good debate.

I agree that it is a risky business to start especially a brewpub because 
first you have to have a successful restaurant, an that's hard to start as 
well. Though I would suppose like most things in life

It would'nt be worth doing, if it wasn't hard to do...........GregMan










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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:19:37 -0500
From: Pete Limosani <plimosani at rcn.com>
Subject: mashing & system types

<html>
<font face="Courier New, Courier">I'm considering the move from extract
to all-grain and have been researching<br>
brewery set-ups. I've gleaned a lot of great information from this
digest, <br>
but wonder if someone can tie up a loose end for me.<br><br>
There are RIMS, HERMS, CHERMS, etc. systems.<br>
We have infusion, decoction, etc. mashing.<br><br>
Can each type of system perform each type of mashing?<br>
Are certain system/mashing combinations best for certain types of
brew?<br>
</font></html>



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:59:56 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Food safe acrylic cement

In HBD 4122, Kevin asks about food safe cement to attach pieces to the lid 
of a mash tun, and I don't understand why.  I don't picture the lid as 
being in contact with the mash liquid, so why does the cement have to be 
food safe?  I suggest using common "superglue", moving on.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:16:46 -0700
From: Dave Howell <djhowell at cableaz.com>
Subject: Zywiec Recipe?

Anyone have a recipe for Zywiec as it's brewed today (as opposed to in the 
late 80's - early 90's)?

I thought I'd brew up a batch of the malty Dancing Beer of the Poles over 
Christmas vacation.








Dave Howell




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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:33:30 -0700
From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com>
Subject: brewing in Phoenix, chest freezers

Victor Franklin asks about using a chest freezer for fermentation but 
worries about lifting full carboys.

I brew in the Phoenix area too. Winter months are the only time we can 
ferment with some success at ambient.  As you have seen here, a big 
improvement to your beer quality is fermentation control.

While I have friends that use freezer chests, I would probably recommend a 
refrigerator.  A smaller lift for your bad shoulders.

Disconnect the heater for the 'frost free' feature.  Disconnect the stock 
thermostat and wire in a remote bulb thermostat.  I used a Honeywell Model 
T6031A.  You can use White-Rodgers, Ranco, etc also.  You can find the 
Honeywell and the White-Rodgers at Grainger's.  Stock # 4E047 and 2E834.  
Around $43.  Check with your company to see if they have an account with 
Grainger's.  Mine does and I got a 20% discount.

You can buy a controller where you just plug the fridge into the controller 
and it cycles the power on & off depending on the temp and the offset.  
These run $40-50 depending on the source.

Once people got to know that I was a homebrewer and that I was looking for a 
fridge, I got a lot of offers on free fridges.  You'll be surprised how many 
of your co-workers have spare fridges in the garage or by the pool that 
aren't being used anymore.  Always seem that they want homebrew in exchange. 
  So if you haven't purchased a chest freezer, I bet you can find a fridge.

A refrigerator will hold 2 carboys and maybe a corny depending on the cu. ft 
capacity.  I did my fridge conversion for $25.  Free fridge + $25 for the 
controller.

If you are dead set on a chest freezer.  Get a magnetic drive pump.  This 
will run you about $85 plus fittings.  I picked up a used one for $25 at a 
hamfest of all places.  Ebay has them occasionally.

Let me know if I can help.

Dave Holt
Chandler, AZ
Forest Lakes, AZ



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:21:57 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re:  Electric brewing

Jim Devries from ? wants to know about electric brewing and has some
questions.

>Do I still need to use a low watt density element for both the sparge water and
boiling kettle?

  No for the HLT and Yes for the Kettle.  I use a 7000 watt element for the
HLT and it works great, but a 4500 watt element worked really good too. A
plumber friend gave me the 7000 watt and it's just a little faster. All the
elements are run at 240 volts.  The kettle element I think should be the low
watt density type so you don't scorch the wort.  I've never tried using a
high density type, so I don't know if it really does.  I wouldn't take the
chance though.  

>Do I still run at 120 volts even though the element is rated at 240 volts for
both sparge water and boiling kettle?

   I think you need to.  At 120 volts, it would take forever to heat the HLT
and boil 12 gallons of wort.  I think you only get 1400 watts or something
when you run a 240 volt, 4500 watt element at 120 volts.  There is a
formula, and I don't know it. My system is an electric HERMS and I usually
heat up 14 gallons of Sparge water.  A temperature controller adds a nice
finishing touch to the electric HLT.

>How many watts is necessary to bring 12 gallons of wort to boil in a reasonable
amount of time?

   I have found that 3500 watts takes way too long to get 12.5 gallons up to
a boil, but maintains the boil nicely, and 4500 watts is just about right to
get up to a boil, but then its too hot once it gets there and boils over all
the time.  I fought with this for a while.  My first solution was to use
both elements in the kettle, and just turn off the 4500 watt when the wort
got up to a boil.  This kept me going until I found Ron LaBorde's and C.D.
Pritchard's web pages on electric boiling.  They use an SSR driver made with
a 555 timer integrated circuit. It's kinda like a stove top controller,
where it pulses the power on/off to the element, only its electronic.  I
tried a stove top controller and it did not work very good.  Another brewer
on the HBD was also building an electric kettle, and he found this
electronics guy who likes to race cars and build electronic gizmos for
people.  He built him a 555 timer SSR Driver and it worked great.  I talked
the guy into building me one too and really like it.

  I really like brewing with electric.  I brew Cap's, German Pilsner's and
American Largers all the time.  I have no problem with color.  If you need
some help, let me know.  I have pictures and drawings.  Good luck.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:01:58 -0600
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: lambic failures

A few weeks ago, I bottled a p-lambic and a p-kriek that had been festering 
for over 12 months in carboys. They were both largely dominated by what I 
think was Brettanomyces Brux., but neither had much sourness. I followed a 
fairly complex mash procedure, started both with a regular ale yeast, added 
the Wyeast Blend a couple of days into fermentation, and then the 
individual Wyeast bugs (except lactobacillus) a week or so after that. 
Where did I go wrong? Too much of either or both Bretts.? Not enough 
lactobacillus? Any ideas?

However: on a whim, I mixed half and half p-lambic and IPA in the glass and 
got something that tasted remarkably like Orval! Given the price of Orval 
around these parts, I feel much better about the failure.

Keith

Keith Busby
Professor of French and Chair
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Department of French and Italian
618 Van Hise Hall
Madison, WI 53706

(608) 262-3941
(608) 265-3892 (fax)



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