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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  New WBA brewing course scholarship ("Keith Lemcke")
  Hot diggity dog (John Schnupp)
  re:Dual use of Beer Equipment for Wine Making ("Mark Tumarkin")
  RE: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another (jtroyce)
  Re: dry yeast ("Steve B")
  Re: Staining with the use of iodophor (Fred L Johnson)
  Re: Full 5 gal boil of Extract brew (Larry Bristol)
  Wasabi beer? ("John Misrahi")
  re. dry pitching ("John Misrahi")
  Reducing the malt flavor in no-sparge brews ("Lanthier, Chris")
  Dry yeast starter? ("Drew Avis")
  Beer consulting (David Harsh)
  Shipping yeast from Maylasia (Mark Kempisty)
  dry yeast hydration/starters ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  efficiency and malt amounts ("Stephen Weiss")
  DCL yeast in US ("Mike Racette")
  Re: Dry Yeast is a joke (Bill Wible)
  Best Beers In America . . . ("Ray Daniels")
  RE: dry yeast starters (Brian Lundeen)
  Pitching big, and false bottoms. ("Christian Rausch")
  re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another (Rama Roberts)
  Missing Entrants for MCAB V (Andy) NSSC" <AndersonRW at NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL>
  WLP 565 Belgian Saison Yeast (darrell.leavitt)
  pump question (darrell.leavitt)
  Filling CO2 tanks (Jay Pfaffman)
  Re: Staining with the use of Iodophor (David Towson)
  Re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another (David Towson)
  10 Gallon Gott capacity (jayspies)
  Dry yeast  & Root beer (LJ Vitt)
  Another example of the importance of beer ("Martin Brungard")
  RE: Mash tun for 10 gal batches (Steve Funk)
  Staining with the use of Iodophore - reusing yeast (LJ Vitt)
  All Grain Newbie ("Gilbert Milone II")


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:45:52 -0600
From: "Keith Lemcke" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com>
Subject: New WBA brewing course scholarship

I just wanted to let the HBD members know about a new World Brewing Academy
scholarship.

The California Fermentation Society, a California public benefit corporation
based in Long Beach, CA, has generously offered to provide a $500
scholarship
towards tuition in our fall WBA Concise Course in Brewing Technology
(Chicago Campus: Oct. 27 - Nov. 7, 2003).  The California Fermentation
Society was formed to promote the appreciation of the brewing arts and
sciences, supporting the Southern California brewing community through such
events as the annual brewing competition at the Los Angeles County Fair. You
can find out more about the CFS at www.calferm.org.  For complete details on
applying for the California Fermentation Society scholarship, please send
e-mail to me at klemcke at siebelinstitute.com with the phrase "CFS
Scholarship" in the subject line.

Thanks, and I hope to see many of you in Chicago for the AHA National
Homebrew Conference in June.


Keith Lemcke at Siebel Institute & World Brewing Academy



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:11:11 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: Hot diggity dog

I didn't think I'd ever see it on HBD.  Just goes to show you that hell can
freeze over.

I'm talking about the latest flair-up about yeast.  This is really neat.  It
kinda' reminds me of the helemt and oil threads over on the XL-list (XL =
Harley Davidson Sportster for those not in the know).  Now all we gotta' do is 
get it to keep coming back every 4-6 weeks and I'll know I'm home ;-)

  

=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 07:11:20 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re:Dual use of Beer Equipment for Wine Making

Paul asks:
"Since my Beer brewing experiences have been nothing but GREAT!, I'm going to
be taking another step and start making my own Wine.

Is it OK to use some of the same equipment I use for my Homebrew to make
Wine? "

Yes - mead is essentially honey wine and many brewers (including myself) do
both with the same equipment. . Some brewers use champagne yeast to finish
their really big barleywines (though if you use a good starter & treat your
yeast nicely, this generally isn't necessary). It's mainly with brett or
lambic beasties that it's a good idea to use separate plastic equipment. Even
then, glass or stainless can be safely sanitized.

MarkTumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 04:26:13 -0800
From: jtroyce at earthlink.net
Subject: RE: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another

Paul R. asks:

 ...I would like to try to reclaim yeast from one batch to another. When and
how do I extract good
yeast from a fermenting batch.  Then once I have this, what are the next steps
to take in preserving this yeast for a future batch, (please
addresssanitation, yeast nutrient needs, yeast reproduction, etc.).


I recently recovered my first yeast cake from a pale ale and then used it ~3
weeks later for an Irish red. I followed the instructions given by Wyeast and
was very successful:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

Two days before brewing, I took the yeast out of the fridge and let it warm up
to room temp. Then a day before, I transferred it to a flask, added some wort
and let it start fermenting, then pitched it on brew day. I had an active
fermentation within about 6 hours. Worked great!

Hope that helps!


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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 07:58:05 -0500
From: "Steve B" <habenero92 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: dry yeast

Well I feel that I must weigh in on the yeast debate.  I have been brewing 
off and on for the past 12 years.  I have used dry yeast for most of the 
time and only recently switched to liquid.  My beers brewed with dry yeast 
would turn out decent but were always a bit less than what I expected.  My 
biggest complaint with dry yeast is that HB stores do not stock the 
different strains.  I can remember my choices being muntons ale or nothing.  
Since I have switched to liquid, my beers have turned out much better.  Not 
to brag but brewing with liquid I have won competitions and my friends no 
longer seem like they are being just polite when they say the beer tastes 
good.  Also I like the greater variety of strains that HB shops have on 
hand.  Not being a microbiologist, why is it that so many more liquid 
strains are available in stores?
My experience tells me that liquid is better than dry.  But to call dry 
yeast a joke is greatly undervaluing its worth.
S



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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 07:57:24 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Re: Staining with the use of iodophor

Paul asks about how badly does Iodophor stain.

If you get concentrated Iodophor on something that you do not want to be
stained, wipe it up quickly.  I have seen such stains dissipate with time,
but some stains seem to never go away.  Although dilute Iodophor doesn't
stain badly or at all immediately, even the dilute stuff will become
concentrated into spots as the water evaporates, so you should wipe up
dilute Iodophor spills as soon as you can,.  Anyone working with Iodophor
will quickly learn how it behaves (or misbehaves).

I keep a bucket of dilute Iodophor around for storing small parts and tubing
sanitized. (Don't store rubber in Iodophor. Iodophor will destroy rubber.) I
always put the bucket on a throw rug when I bring it into the kitchen, as it
will inevitably leave something behind.

I try to stay in the garage as much as possible. Iodophor and pretty
kitchens really don't mix. But by the grace of God, my wife has accepted my
hobby and hasn't thrown me out of the house--yet.  She's also looking
forward to a new kitchen floor and counter tops in the near future.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 05:53:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Bristol <larryjbristol at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Full 5 gal boil of Extract brew

On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:02:19 -0500, "Romanowsky, Paul"
<paul.romanowsky at siemens.com> queried:

> I have just gotten equipped with a new brew kettle made from a 1/2
keg
> and also purchase a King Cooker propane burner.  Since I received an 
> Extract and Specialty grain kit, (IPA), for Christmas, that is the 
> first batch I'm going to brew with it.

Sounds wonderful...  Congratulations!

> My question involves brewing this type of extract kit using a full 5 
> gal. boil.

An excellent move.  Full volume boil is one of those little things that
will significantly improve extract based beers.  The longer boil times
mean that beneficial processes occurring during the boil have more time
to complete.

> 1.  I want to end up with a full 5 gallons of wort after the boil is 
> complete.  So how much water should I start with taking evaporation 
> during the 60 minute boil into account.

A good ROT (Rule of Thumb) is that you will reduce your volume by about
15% per hour of boil, so to end up with 5 gallons, you will start with
5.88 gallons (5 gallons / 0.85).

> 2.  What about hops as far as quantity goes.  One friend has told me 
> that I will want to use less than called for in the extract recipe 
> because hop utilization will be greater with a full boil.  Any
thoughts 
> on that?  Is there a rule of thumb to follow here.

Your friend is right, assuming that the recipe calls for a shorter boil
time.  The table below shows the IBUs extracted from 1 ounce of 10%AA
hops in a 1.040 wort varying the boil time in 5 minute intervals
(computed using ProMash).  Note the dramatic increase, especially for
times under 45 minutes.

     Boil      IBUs
     Time    Extracted
       5   -    3.7
      10   -    4.5
      15   -    6.0
      20   -    7.5
      25   -    9.0
      30   -   11.4
      35   -   14.0
      40   -   17.0
      45   -   20.1
      50   -   21.0
      55   -   22.4
      60   -   22.4

The formulae for computing hop utilization are a bit complicated (more
than I would want to calculate in my head, anyway).  As for a ROT, my
advice would be to use one of the computer tools available rather than
burn up those brain cells.  [When that comet strikes the earth and
wipes out civilization as we know it, I will have to brew completely by
the seat of my pants.  EGAD!!!]

Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:25:09 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Wasabi beer?

Peter A. Ensminger wrote about his interesting brews, including a Wasabi
beer. Peter, aren't you going to fill us in? This is too weird to pass up!

john
Montreal, Canada
[6631.2, 17.4] Apparent Rennerian

Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"

"Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson

"Fryer oil is like underwear, it needs to be changed once in a while or it
breaks down"  - Andrew Perron





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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:33:24 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: re. dry pitching

Helomech wrote,
"You can also just sprinkle dry yeast on top of your wort and wait 3 days
for
it to start a decent fermentation "

Is this your experience, Helomech? I've done exactly as you say many times.
I used 2X 5gram packets of Danstar Windsor ( a fine dry english ale yeast)
in a bitter (low grav, ~1.040). There was a thin layer of white foam within
maybe 2 hours, and the fermentation was complete, down to 1.010 within about
36 hours. Actually, I've made many beers with this yeast that I was able to
bottle within 3 to 4 days (fermented, and often cleared as well!).

Even with a starter, I've had much longer lag times with liquid yeast. I use
liquid and dry, and I like many from each category. But don't go spreading
garbage just to back up your point.

John
[6631.2, 17.4] Apparent Rennerian

Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"

"Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson

"Fryer oil is like underwear, it needs to be changed once in a while or it
breaks down"  - Andrew Perron





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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:31:00 -0500 
From: "Lanthier, Chris" <CLanthie at arqule.com>
Subject: Reducing the malt flavor in no-sparge brews

I'm about to embark into the world of full-grain mashing, and decided to do
it the easiest way possible by using the no-sparge mash method I've been
hearing lots about.  What I'm also hearing is the increase in malt flavor
you get from this method, which is good for bocks, barley wines and some
English ales.  But, what if I don't want this extra malty flavor?  Is there
some method of reducing it?  Would a balance of malt and some non-flavored
fermentable such as rice or wheat malt do the trick.  Or would adding a
pound or so of dextrose be a quick fix (so much for "full-grain").

Chris
Andover, MA



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:04:40 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Dry yeast starter?

Steve and Mr. Halomech have exchanged ideas on the necessity of a dry yeast
"starter".  I recall some very interesting information from one of the HBD's
Q&A with the pros a while back on the topic of re-hydration.  It was a
question from Dan Listerman and replied to by Dr. Clayton Cone... I won't
re-post the whole thing, but here's the link:
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html#rehydrate

Personally, I'm an un-repentant non-hydrator (with ales - I re-hydrate the
lager yeast), and get good starts within 6 hours.

Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:28:43 -0500
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Beer consulting

> Kenneth Peters" <kpeters6 at cox.net> writes of an offer made:

> "Since this topic has come up several times, I am thinking of offering
> the taste panel service again for $ 10 for home brewers. I have a 
> panel of
> trained tasters and I am a National BJCP judge so this is the real 
> thing. What
> do you think------- "

Well, as another National judge, I would recommend that you seek out 
experienced brewers in your local club.  Bring your problem beers and 
offer them for tasting and MAKE A POINT OF REQUESTING CRITICAL 
FEEDBACK.  Bring a keg and have a mass tasting at the meeting and ask 
for comments.  Your local club can offer you lots of useful feedback, 
but you've got to seek it.  Many people will be polite and tell you 
they like the beer as opposed to offering criticism unless you ask for 
it.  Be prepared to explain the details of your brewing when you do 
this.

With all due respect to trained tasters (and I'm not saying some 
wouldn't find such a service useful), homebrewers will generally do 
this for free.  I think a trained taste panel would be advantageous if 
you were dealing with very low levels of off flavors that are more 
difficult to pick up.  (for example, I have trouble sensing DMS at all 
but extreme levels)

If you can't pick out common flaws, go for the commercial examples 
where they are often found at higher than normal levels:
	DMS - Rolling Rock
	Diacetyl - Almost any Sam Smith's product
	Oxidation - German light lagers with dust on the bottles (Warsteiner 
is a good bet here)
	Skunky - Green bottle beer from a big supermarket, often includes both 
oxidized and skunky together!

You can also prepare doctored samples for flavor recognition "training" 
  if you want - it makes a good topic for a club meeting.  The recipes 
can be found in many places on the web if you look.

My $.02.  Possibly worth less.

Dave Harsh						Bloatarian Brewing League
Go Buckeyes!						Cincinnati, OH



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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 10:41:06 -0500
From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Shipping yeast from Maylasia

Its starting to sound like its time to put the yeast flak jacket on!

But on an on-topic note:  In shipping from Maylasia and especially in
bulk (either pre-packaged or not) you have to be concerned about the
shipping environment.  At my previous employer we lost electronic
equipment (mainly backup batteries) in the containerized trans-Pacific
cargo ships.  Fortunately not too many.  But the interior of those ship
borne containers do get very hot particularly on the outside layers of
those stacks.  If they are sending a dozen packs to one destination,
then an overnight shipper is not out of reason.  But as the quantity
goes up that becomes less practical.  Dry yeast is more resilient and
that is the direction this discussion has headed but I have not seen it
mentioned that this is the most logical reason why.

Climate controlled shipping can be done, but of course costs go up.  Any
shipping cost gets added into the wholesale and retail prices.

- --
Take care,
Mark






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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:59:34 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: dry yeast hydration/starters

I would not expect much cell enumeration by
adding a bit of wort to hydrated dry yeast.
 It would take quite a large starter to get the cell
count well below 100 mill cell/ml to encourage
budding. 
 Maybe it's been noted that Danstar yeasts are now
available in 11 gram sachets. Thats approximately
176 billion cells, for a pitching rate of 9.2 M/ml,
a bit shy of target but certainly a huge improvement
over 5 gram sachets.
  Dry yeasts are made to be used in a particular fashion
and I believe it is best to stick to the program, that is:
use 10 x dry yeast weight for hydration water,
use water at 40 C (104 F),
don't add nutrients unless specially made for use in starters,
hydrate for 15 minutes and pitch.
  



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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:10:09 -0500
From: "Stephen Weiss" <Stephen_Weiss at emoryhealthcare.org>
Subject: efficiency and malt amounts

Could someone please explain to me the rational for increasing 
the amount adjunct grains based on efficiency.  What I mean 
is, if I use a recipe based on 85% efficiency and I get 70%, or 
I no batch sparge at 48%, do I just increase the base malts 
(ie. pale, munich, etc.) or do I also keep the percentages of 
the non base malts the same (ie. crystal, black patents, 
roasted barley etc.).
 
So if the recipe is 10# pale 1# roasted barley at 90%, 
is it 20# and 2# at 45% efficiency or is it 20# and still 1#.
 
Please explain the "science" behind the answer, ie. does the 
extra pale malt absorb other malts color and flavor and thus 
require more non base 
malts or not?
 
Thanks



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:13:54 -0700
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: DCL yeast in US

A couple people have asked about a U.S. source for DCL dry yeasts. Crosby
and Baker's website http://www.crosby-baker.com says that they carry K-97,
S-189 and quite a few other DCL strains. I called them and since they are
wholesale only, they gave me a couple of retailers names that do mail order,
or you can ask any homebrew store that carries their other products to order
whatever you want. These are two of the stores they recommended. I have
tried neither.

Alternative Beverage  800-365-2739
Beer & Wine Hobby  800-523-5423



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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:24:11 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Dry Yeast is a joke


Ok, enough is enough.

Let's move on to one or more of the other
thoroughly beaten dead horses again, like:

 - Is it better to ferment in plastic or glass?
 - Does it really matter if your brewpot is Aluminum or Steel?
 - Which is better - liquid Malt Extract or Dry?
 - Should I skim during the boil or not?
 - Do homebrewers really need to worry about hot side aeration?
 - Is it better to use a hop bag or not?
 - What is the best brewing software?
 - What is the best brewing book?
 - Should mead really be considered beer?  Isn't it really wine?

Let's have some more opinions and rehash these same, tired
old dead arguments again.

Geeks.

Bill



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:48:56 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Best Beers In America . . . 

Zymurgy magazine is currently conducting a poll of its readers to
uncover what homebrewers think are the best beers in America.

At the close of voting, we'll determine the top beers and then assign
some master homebrewers to develop clone recipes which we'll feature in
our July-August issue of the magazine. 

So, since I'm sure nearly every member of this forum is a Zymurgy
subscriber (BIG smile), I thought I would remind everyone to open their
Jan-Feb issues to page 44 to review the details and vote.  

Of course if you are one of those who hasn't yet become a subscriber,
you might find a copy of the Jan-Feb issue at your local homebrew shop
so that you can get in on the fun as well. The truly motivated
non-subscriber could even call the number below to order a copy---or
better yet arrange their very own subscription.

Thanks to all for the bandwidth.

Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
Association of Brewers
ray at aob.org

For subscriptions and individual copy sales, call 1-888-822-6273. 





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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:51:09 -0600 
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: dry yeast starters

Helomech, in response to Steve A, writes:

> > To the contrary - dry yeasts are the only ones where you can bypass 
> > the starter and pitch after rehydrating.
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Yes you sure can, but if you rehydrate it and add some cooled 
> sterile wort a few hours before you need to pitch it, you 
> start with a bigger batch of cells and get a swifter / better 
> fermentation (in my opinion).
> 

Wait, you're both right (in a manner of speaking).

Now, I wish I could put my hands (or browser) on where I got this years ago
(maybe it was a troll under a bridge, maybe it was Dr Clayton Cone, my
memory is fuzzy), but I do recall from my winemaking days being told
somewhat authoritatively, that a true starter (designed to yield a suitable
pitching population) gave poorer performance from dry yeast than rehydrating
and pitching the appropriate amount. Given the low cost of dry yeasts, why
wouldn't you want to do it that way?

I don't consider this brief introduction to some wort a true starter. A lot
of people think of it more as a wake-up call. However, when done properly,
for the right reasons, it can improve your pitching population. Not so much
by a lot of growth, but by preventing cell death from pitching shock.

Rehydrated yeast faces a significant temperature drop when pitched. This
drop is especially traumatic when cold pitching a lager. Lallemand
recommends slowly adding wort to the rehydrated yeast, to slowly drop the
temperature to within 10 degF of your wort temperature before pitching.
Someone once gave me a very specific procedure to ensure the temperature
drop was slow enough, but that's likely buried somewhere in all my
literature (hey, I never claimed to be useful, just opinionated).

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:53:02 -0500
From: "Christian Rausch" <christian at rauschbiercompany.com>
Subject: Pitching big, and false bottoms.

Hello all. I have read a couple postings that have touched on big starters.
I have used 2000ml starters for a couple years and feel that they work well.
I did however start to get more involved with my lagers and as a result I
tried pitching a new batch on top of a yeast cake of a previous batch. Wow
what a difference. The thing took off inside of four hours at 52F and the
flavor profile at kegging, while green, was very clean. I collected a thick
milk shake like yeast slurry that filled a sterilized mayo jar. Today I
pitched that into a new batch and it was fermenting in about forty-five
minutes. I like this much more than the 2000ml starters. Any thoughts?

Secondly does anyone have any thoughts about false bottom construction? I
have used the B3 stainless for the bottom of a five gallon Gott. It gets
stuck all the time and it is starting to get frustrating. I had made one in
the past out off a food grade bucket bottom and regret giving it away when I
purchased this new one. Any Ideas?

Cheers!
Christian Rausch
http://rauschbiercompany.com





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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:19:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another

>I've been using Wyeast XL smack packs and White Labs pitchable tubs now for
>some time.  Great results with both.  But with the $6.50 price tag per
>package, I would like to try to reclaim yeast from one batch to another.
>I've never tried this before and have seen posts on this site talking about
>it but no one ever goes into great detail on exactly how it is done. 

Do a google search for "yeast washing". 
Wyeast has some good instructions I've followed a few times here:
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

Only things I would add to it:

 - a 1 quart mason jar may be a little on the small side for the first washing. 
You may end up not collecting all of the yeast- not really a big deal though.

 - if you do plan on storing it airtight for up to a month, as Wyeast suggests 
is possible- be absolutely sure you did a good job with the washing. If you cut 
corners and allow some fermentables to be carried forward into the final 
storage container, carbon dioxide pressure will build up and create a mason-jar 
bomb. Alternatively, you can "burp" the container every once in a while to be 
safe.

- --Rama



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:19:34 -0500 
From: "Anderson Robert W (Andy) NSSC" <AndersonRW at NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Missing Entrants for MCAB V

Greetings,
	I am a Co-Organizer for this year's Master's Championship of Amateur
Brewers (MCAB). The contest will be held in just one month's time, February
7-8 in Washington, DC. (See http://www.burp.org/mcab5 for more details.)
Unfortunately, while I have accumulated a list of all the people who have
qualified for MCAB, I do not always have a way to contact them. My list of
Qualified Entrants (those people who won in a contest last year which makes
them eligible for MCAB V), does not always have addresses (either snail-mail
or email.) 

	So, I am turning to you for help. All of you are members of the
brewing community, so there is a good possibility you may know one or more
of these missing people. If you recognize any of the names on this list,
PLEASE ask them to contact me immediately (& let them know about the
web-site). 

	Also, if you know that you qualified for MCAB V, but have not
received an email from me, that means I do not have an email address for
you. You might want to check the web site to make certain your name is on
the list, and then send me an email so that I have your address.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,


Andy Anderson
MCAB V Contest Co-Organizer

	"Missing" MCAB V Entrants:
Bob Carbone
Richard Dobson
John Doherty
James Grady
John R. Griffiths
Eric  Kuijpers
Phil Lawrence
Jeffrey Lopata
Dan Marshall
Geoffrey McNally
Tom Miklinevich
Todd Russell
Joe Scivicque
Lisa Shafir & Jeff Pzena
Gloria Solheim
Mark Tambascio
Jim Youngmeyer











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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:40:46 -0500
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: WLP 565 Belgian Saison Yeast

I have really grown to like the flavors that I have found with the Belgian 
Saison yeast (wlp565).  I brewed with it on 28 Dec, OG was 1.052 and I 
used just the one vial.  It took off real quickly, and while the vigor of 
the ferment has slowed a good deal, it is still bubbling about 2x per 
minute or more.

My question is: is this common for this yeast to keep on slowly 
working,...and, if so, how long is typical before transferring to the 
secondary?  

 ..Darrell




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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:48:40 -0500
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: pump question

I am looking at the H315 High Temperature Polysulphone Pump, as found at 
Beer and More Beer, and wonder if anyone has this pump, and if so, what 
they think about it?

 ..Darrell




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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:05:14 -0800
From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com>
Subject: Filling CO2 tanks

Last I looked it was a bit cheaper per pound to fill a 20 pound tank
than it was a 5.  I'm wondering what it takes to fill a CO2 tank.
What does it take to fill a 2 or a 5 pound CO2 tank from a 20?  I've
seen a setup in a sporting goods store where they were filling small
tanks for paint ball in the shop, it would seem possible for me to do
the same.  If I could refill a small 2 pound tank myself, I'd be much
more inclined to get one.  I want the increased portability, but don't
want to pay premium prices for gas.

- -- 
Jay Pfaffman                           pfaffman at relaxpc.com
+1-415-821-7507 (H)                    +1-415-810-2238 (M)



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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 13:15:24 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Staining with the use of Iodophor

In HBD 4139, Paul Romanowsky has concerns about iodophor staining.

I use iodophor for sanitizing, and have not found staining to be a problem 
so long as I exercise some caution.  The concentrate will readily stain 
highly porous materials such as clothing, paper, unfinished wood and the 
like.  And if you get it on such materials, it is unlikely that you will be 
able to clean it up before some damage is done.  So be very careful with 
the concentrate.  Work over a sink, and watch out for dribbles when you 
pour from the bottle.  The properly diluted solution, on the other hand, is 
pretty easy to deal with, and you can mop it up with a damp sponge if you 
act quickly.  It does its job with only a few minutes contact time (see 
http://www.bayareamashers.org/iodophor.htm for some words on that), so you 
don't have to leave it in contact with semi-porous materials like plastics 
long enough for staining to occur.  Don't over-use it.  A little bit does 
the job.  Check out the above web reference for guidance on usage.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:03:17 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another

On or thereabout 1/7/03, Romanowsky, Paul spoke thusly:
>I would like to try to reclaim yeast from one batch to another.
>I've never tried this before and have seen posts on this site talking about
>it but no one ever goes into great detail on exactly how it is done.

Well I won't claim to be an expert, since I've only re-claimed my 
yeast once... but it seems to be a roaring (or is that 'krausening'?) 
success so far, so here's exactly what I did:

Last weekend, (step 1) I took a plastic jar and filled it to the very 
rim with sanitizer, and let it soak with the lid on... I also put a 
1/4 cup stainless steel measuring scoop in the sanitizer, and I 
proceeded to rack and bottle my hefeweisen (which tasted surprisingly 
good at bottling time... so I'm very optimistic about that batch).

After I was done bottling, (step 2) I poured the sanitizer out of the 
plastic jar, took the stainless scoop out, and scooped about 3/4 cup 
of the yeast sludge off the bottom of the hefe fermenter, and dumped 
it into the plastic jar, screwed the lid down, and headed off to the 
kitchen...

(step 3) I boiled about 1/8 lb. DME in 16 oz of water, cooled it to 
the low 70F range, poured it into the yeast sludge, put the cover on 
loosely and swirled it around to mix up the yeast. Then I went and 
bottled my stout... when I was done bottling, the 64oz plastic jar 
was completely full of foam, so it looked like some lively yeast.

I left it sitting overnight at room temp, and when I brewed my rye 
ale the next day, (step 4) I re-sanitized the stainless scoop, and 
scooped about a cup of cool wort into the yeast jar to sit while I 
poured the rest of the wort into a fermenter and shook it around 
awhile... the yeast had already started foaming up again (about 5 
mins. later) and smelled exactly like beer yeast should, so I poured 
it into the fermenter, put the lid on, and stuffed it into the closet.

That was Sunday evening. This morning, the 3" head of krausen that 
had appeared by Monday morning is still there, and the airlock is 
bubbling every second or so. It seems like happy beer to me. I think 
after this batch, I may try the "yeast washing" procedure described 
on the WYeast website, and see if I can't save a bunch of it for a 
month or so...

I think if you wanted to save the yeast for a week or so, you'd screw 
the lid down after the krausen from step 3 had died down, and keep 
the jar in your fridge for a week or two without a problem. Just let 
the jar warm back up to room temperature, and maybe put in some 
"wake-up" wort about 1/2 hour before pitching, to make sure it's 
still lively?
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://rant.mivox.com/

"Whenever a theory appears to you as the only possible one,
take this as a sign that you have neither understood the
theory nor the problem which it was intended to solve."
	-- Karl Popper


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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 14:00:06 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another

In HBD 4139, Paul Romanowsky asks about harvesting yeast.

I have been doing this for years with great success.  It's quite easy, 
especially now that I have a cylindro-conical fermenter with a bottom dump 
valve.  But since carboys are more common, I'll describe how I saved yeast 
from them.

When racking off the primary yeast, I would leave about a half-inch of 
liquid above the sediment.  After moving the primary ferment to a secondary 
container, I would swirl the remaining liquid in the primary to get most of 
the sedimented yeast into suspension, and then pour it into a sanitized 
glass bottle for storage in a refrigerator at 40 degrees F.  I didn't try 
to get the last bit of yeast out, just what came loose easily, on the 
assumption that what settled-out first was probably the least active.  I've 
seen estimates from a week to several months for how long you can store 
yeast this way, but I've decided on one month for my limit.  Others may 
disagree, but I've made out okay using this criterion.  I've seen 
descriptions of techniques using glycerin solutions to enable storing yeast 
for longer periods at lower temperatures, but I've never tried that.

As for sanitization of the storage bottle, there are options.  Since we're 
only talking about a volume of a quart or so, it is reasonable to boil the 
bottle and its lid.  Or you can use bleach, so long as you rinse it well, 
or iodophor, which does not need rinsing if you use a 12.5 ppm solution and 
drain it well.  I leave the cap loose on the yeast storage bottle to allow 
out-gassing while the yeast suspension settles, and the whole mess comes to 
storage temperature.

I re-use yeast an indeterminate number of times.  This depends on what it 
has been used for previously (high/low gravity, light/dark, whole hops or 
pellet), and I don't know how to describe that.  It's sort of a 
"seat-of-the-pants" kind of thing.  But I usually give it up after about 
five recycles, if I get that far.

Just be sure to adhere to good sanitation practice at every step.  You 
don't want to save contaminated yeast, and then use it to mess up the next 
batch.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 19:18:26 +0000
From: jayspies at att.net
Subject: 10 Gallon Gott capacity

All -

In HBD 4139, Brian Schar spaketh thusly:

>>>The consensus on HBD seems to be that the 10-gallon Gott coolers are the
thing to use for all-grain brewing.  However, I'm not going to be able to
fit enough grain in one of those for a 10-gallon batch of beer.  From what I
hear, the Gott coolers hold anywhere from 17-25 pounds of grain--not enough
grain for any but the lightest beer styles.<<<

Despair not, my friend.....  Having used a 10 gallon gott for some 6 years now 
to do all grain batches, I can assure you that even with my paltry system 
efficiency of 72%, I can get wort gravities in the 1.060's with 23-25 lbs of 
malt.  BTW, that gravity is for 10 gallon batches, and 1.060's or less will 
likely comprise about 90% of the styles that most HB'ers currently make.  If 
you want a higher gravity beer, I'd suggest supplementing the wort with some 
fresh DME or LME.  In higher gravity beers, the "extract tang" that many 
HB'ers complain of is, at least to my pedestrian palate, undetectable.

So get yourself a 10-gallon gott and brew away.  Your suggestion to get a 
Zymie screen is good; it will serve you well.  BTW, congrats on making the 
jump to all grain.  You'll be glad you did.  Oh, and don't be afraid to use 
dry yeast.   ;)

Jay Spies
Charm City Altobrewery
Baltimore, MD


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:31:43 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Dry yeast  & Root beer


I have been reading the dry yeast discussions.
The only beer dry yeast I have tried and liked is the Danstar series
(Nottingham, Windsor, Manchester).  It was some of the brewpub brewers 
that convinced me to try these yeast.

I see two names recommended I am not familiar with - DCL and Lallemand.  
Is DCL the same or different from Danstar?

I trust these recommendation because of the number of who like them and
because of who some of those recommendations are coming from.

There are many styles of beers I make that don't have a dry yeast that fits.
Until this discussion, I did not know there was an acceptable lager yeast
in dry form.  Belgians and weizens, Kolsch, I'll stick with the liquids I
learned to trust for these.

- -----------------

Root Beer:


Paul asked about carbonating root beer.

I tried a few different yeast, but the only way I liked the outcome was
forced carbonation.  Champaign yeast left the cleanest tasting root beer,
but the forced carbonation is better.

Carbonating root beer or sodas using yeast makes you refrigerationguration
to stop the fermentation, and its difficult to avoids getting foam overs.

To artificially carbonate root beer, you need a keg, and a CO2 system.
I have a keg and tap for it that only get used for root beer (OK I used
itraspberryrspberry soda once).  This is because the root beer flavor gets into

the rubber seals and the tubing, and is hard to get back out.


=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:57:43 -0500
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com>
Subject: Another example of the importance of beer

I was doing a quick web search regarding the cleaning of pH meter electrodes
and I came across the following information. 

"pH was introduced by a Danish biochemist Soren Peter Lauritz Sorensen in
1909 to measure the acidity of water in the brewing of beer. The letters pH
are an abbreviate for pondus hydrogenii (translated as potential hydrogen)
meaning hydrogen power as acidity is caused by a predominance of hydrogen
ions (H+)."

I didn't know this!  Another example of how important brewing is.  Add this
to the other minutia that you carry.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL 


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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:58:40 -0800
From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: RE: Mash tun for 10 gal batches

Brian Schar asks about mash tun ideas for his 10 gal set up.  I brew 
10-gal batches too and use a 56-qt chest cooler as a mash tun.  It can 
hold over 30# of grist.  I removed the drain and installed a ball valve. 
  On the inside of the cooler I just use a singlebazooka screen (NAYYY) 
w/o a FB.  This is part of a HERMs setup and works very well for me and 
my extraction efficiencies are in the 75-80% range. FWIW.
Cheers,
- -- 
Steve Funk
Brewing in the Columbia River Gorge
Stevenson, WA




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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:07:07 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Staining with the use of Iodophore - reusing yeast


Paul asked about the staining done by iodophor.

Plastic items tend to stain with a brown/red color.
I see it in tubing and plastic buckets.  My friend's
wine theftsignificantlyntly stained.  The length of contact time
is a factor for how much staining takes place.  Racking tubes
turn mbrownbown as left soaking in the diluted iodophor.  My dilution
rate is one fluid ounce of iodophor in 5 us gal.  My one ounce 
measuring cup show the most stain, because it gets the undiluted stuff.

Glass and stainless steel do not get any staining 

Paul's fiblaundrylaundary sink might be a problem.  I do all of my
sanitizing in the basement laundry area - cfloor withloorwith floor 
drain, and a 50 year old claundrylaundary sink.
However, I think with rinsing the sink very quickly after the iodophor
is in it will prevent the staining.

Paul has another question about re-using yeast from a previous batch of
beer.

I have reused beer and mead yeast for 2 or three batches.  I see others
report on HBD they reuse yeast as much as 10 or 20 times.

The sediment left at the bottom of your old primary fermentation is 
a combination of viable yeast, dead yeast, and trub.How

HOw do I go about it.  I make my second beer on the same day I want to
rack the first beer to the secondary.  During the boil of the new wort,
rack the beer to secondary. 

Option 1: Keep a little liquid in with the yeast to help get the yeast 
out.  Sanitize a new primary fermenter and the outside lip of the 
old primary fermenter (carboy).  Sanitize  a funnel.  Pour yeast out of 
old primary fermenter into the new one, through the funnel.  You will
need to swish around the liquid to get much of the sediment to come out.
You don't need it all, just a significant part of it.  I transfer the 
sediment after putting the new wort in the fermenter.


thirdOn the thrid beer you might need to reduce the amount of sediment you 
bring over.

Option 2: Put your new chilled wort into the same primary fermenter
that the first beer came out of.

I have done both.  Option 2 relies on your original sanitation of
the primary fermenter.  But so does the transfer of sediment method.
But make sure your original beer is clean before making your new one.
There is something worse than making one infected beer, and that propagating
propigating that infection to another.




=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:22:36 -0500
From: "Gilbert Milone II" <gilbertmilone at hotmail.com>
Subject: All Grain Newbie

Hi Everyone,
    I'm on my third all-grain batch. I'm having a problem with undershooting
my target gravity. Sometimes by as much at 10 points. Today I brewed a
scottish ale using 9lbs of 2row and a few adjuncts. It was Paul Zocco's
recipe from Brew Your Own. The target was .1055 and I hit around .1045. I
use an insulated 5 gallon bucket to mash in and mashed at 158 for 1hr(high
to get dextrine for the scottish). I sparged with 20qts at 170 to yeild
about 6.5 gal of wort which I boiled for 1 hr. Yeilding me 5 gallons of
 .1045 wort. Does anyone have any advice how to get my efficency up? How do
you know how much water to sparge with?
Thanks,
Gil Milone


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---