HOMEBREW Digest #4141 Thu 09 January 2003

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  Again.. HOLD on a sec. (was dry yeast) (Wil)
  Grain Mill ("Eyre")
  Again.. HOLD on a sec. (was dry yeast) (Bill Wible)
  Re:  Mash tun for 10 gallon batches (Bill Tobler)
  Re: Beer Consulting revisited (Bill Tobler)
  Re: very high gravity brewing (Christopher Frey)
  RE:Mash tun for 10 gallon batches (Brian Millard)
  BJCP Levels ("Peter Garofalo")
  Re: Mash tun for 10 gallon batches (Kent Fletcher)
  Grain Mills (Rod Tussing)
  Re: Mash tun for 10 gallon batches (Bill Rogers)
  DCL K-97 Yeast/Liquid Yeasts vs Dry Yeasts (Donald and Melissa Hellen)
  Re: re dry yeaat ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: Iodophor Staining ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Re: Dry Yeast is a joke ("Bridges, Scott")
  Re: efficiency and malt amounts ("Rogers, Mike")
  No Sparge runoff rate/Stated IBU in recipes (william.m.menzl)
  All Grain Newbie ("Dan Listermann")
  Iodaphore staining (Mark Kempisty)
  Reclaiming yeast caution (stupid brewer trick) (Mark Kempisty)
  Re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another ("Adam Wead")
  Re: false bottoms (Jeff Renner)
  Re: pump question, dry yeast discussion ("Drew Avis")
  Transfering CO2 from tank to tank ("Sven Pfitt")
  RE: Contentious issues (category 5) (Brian Lundeen)
  yeast treatment (daniel)
  Pitching big, and false bottoms (Dave Darity)
  Superior Lager Yeast (darrell.leavitt)
  RE: Pitching big, and false bottoms ("Mike Sharp")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:03:33 GMT From: Wil at thebeermanstore.com Subject: Again.. HOLD on a sec. (was dry yeast) I can't hold back "Todd" said in HOMEBREW Digest #4139 >Just a quick comment. While I don't doubt that you are exteremely reputable >and ethical in your LHBS business, it sends a bad message when you talk >about being both a homebrew shop owner, *and* that you always steer folks >towards the more expensive liquid yeasts. Talk about having a ton of >expereince in the homebrewing hobby, how many years you've been a BJCP >Judge, etc, etc... But when you throw in the fact that you stand to profit >from steering your customers away from an inexpensive product towards a more >profitable product, it sends up a credibility red-flag (in my book, at >least). (Most dealers do this, FWIW) For God sakes Todd, Where do you work, what product or service do you or the company you work for supply? Do you or your company only supply ONE product or service? Do you or your company have one product that's better and cost more than other products or services. Do you or your company have a product that YOU or they feel works great and you would like to tell your customers about that one product?. Do you or your company want to succeed? to make money? to grow? Do you or your company want your customers to be happy with the products you sell. Does ANYONE in your company sell stuff they feel is inferior and look you in the eye and tell you its NOT? I hope not. Is it OK for you or your company to make a profit or a living but not other people? Is it OK for other people to make a profit on other people but not you? This man stated why he moved people toward a product that he felt better selling and he felt better selling it because in his experience it makes BETTER beer. God knows, as well as all LHBS owner know we don't make a killing on liquid yeast. (I make $1.71 on one tube of WL before I pay rent ,or phone, or me or many other bills. If you would like the brake down I will e-mail it to you) Would some one please tell me WHEN it became politically incorrect for and man to try and make a living or, Heaven forbid a profit. I get very tired of seeing people slam shop owners for making a profit,big or small. Where do these people think that paycheck they get every one to two weeks comes from...perhaps your company or the one you work for..dair I say it, makes a profit!!! I would be willing to say that 90% of the people that come into my store make MUCH more money than I do, they have a nicer house and drive a nicer car. But they have one thing I don't have...A BOSS, and that boss wants them to make a profit......and sell that HIGH end unit or service and he PUSHES them to do it!. Its what make this part of the world go around. I love my job, my store and my customers and would not have it any other way and I will tell my customers what it is I sell that makes better beer no matter what it cost, and they expect me too! Wil Kolb The Beer Man Plaza at East Cooper 607 B Johnnie Dodds Blvd Mt. Pleasant SC 29464 843-971-0805 Fax 843-971-3084 Wil at maltydog.com www.maltydog.com www.thebeermanstore.com Wil at thebeermanstore.com God bless America! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:17:37 -0500 From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Grain Mill Has anyone got any experience with the KitchenAid grain mill attachment for that big ol' blender my wife (and yours) inevitably has in the kitchen? Sure would be nice if that mill would serve my purposes too.. Mike 554.8, 89.2 Apparent Rennarian, or, conversly, Barkhamsted, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:55:46 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Again.. HOLD on a sec. (was dry yeast) >> But when you throw in the fact that you stand to profit >> from steering your customers away from an inexpensive >> product towards a more profitable product, it sends up >> a credibility red-flag In fact, the markup is higher on dry yeast! It is also easier to store and ship, and has a longer shelf life. If it were about money, we'd be trying to steer people TO the dry yeast! >I get very tired of seeing people slam shop owners for making a >profit, big or small And people don't realize exactly what a SMALL profit we make most of the time! We don't plot to make a killing by adding a whole $3 to your order with a tube of liquid yeast! I've been on about internet competition, big places who give out free, full-color catalogs that I *wish* I could afford to have printed, offer free shipping, which small places like us can't do, etc. Everybody runs to the mail order houses, then gripes because they don't have a local shop, after the local shop goes out of business because they're not making anything - especially during the summer. Wanna see my books from July and August??? It was 98 degrees here every day for 3 weeks, and NOBODY was brewing ANYTHING - wine, beer, mead, - NOTHING. I might as well have closed up and gone on vacation for 3 or 4 weeks. But I have bills to pay, so I can't. There's NOT much of a markup on this stuff, despite what people think! How much do people think we make on 10 lbs of grain that we sell for $9, or an ounce of hops we sell for $1.50? We're not scheming to get rich by trying to 'trick' you into paying an extra $3 for liquid yeast. That's absolutely ridiculous! We recommend the liquid yeast because it makes better beer. Period. >I would be willing to say that 90% of the people that come into my >store make MUCH more money than I do, they have a nicer house and >drive a nicer car. But they have one thing I don't have...A BOSS, They also probably have paid time off, health insurance, life insurance, and a 401K or retirement plan. I gave all that up the day I opened my own business. But... >I love my job, my store and my customers and would not have it any >other way and I will tell my customers what it is I sell that makes >better beer no matter what it cost, and they expect me to! Here, Here. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:56:44 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Mash tun for 10 gallon batches Brian Schar is thinking about moving to all grain, and said... >The consensus on HBD seems to be that the 10-gallon Gott coolers are the >thing to use for all-grain brewing. However, I'm not going to be able to >fit enough grain in one of those for a 10-gallon batch of beer. From what I >hear, the Gott coolers hold anywhere from 17-25 pounds of grain--not enough >grain for any but the lightest beer styles. snip.. Brian, 23 or 24 pounds of grain in a ten gallon pot is bout right, but if you have 78% efficiency, using 24 # of grain gives you a predicted OG of1067 for 10 gallons. That's not in the category of "any but the lightest beer styles" If ALL your beers are higher than that, then you a need a bigger pot. You can get about 32 pounds in a 15 gallon pot. That will give you a 1090 beer. Now, if just some of your beers are higher than 1065, you could always opt to make a little less at a higher gravity. Using that same 24 pounds and making only 7 gallons instead of 10 gallons, will give you a predicted OG of 1096. And 5 gallons puts you in the Barleywine range. Actually, I think a 10 gallon mash tun is a great size for most beers making 10 gallon batches. I use a 10 gallon Polarware Pot, but, I also have a 15 gallon pot, just in case. :>) Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:08:38 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Beer Consulting revisited On Beer Consulting, Actually, $10 is a good price to have your beer tasted and rated. But, you can do just as good by entering your beer in Beer Competitions. You'll get 3 or 4 sheets back telling you all about your beer from different judges. This is a good way to get an idea as to how you are doing. The big plus is you might win a medal! (And you also have to brew to style, of course) Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:46:56 -0500 From: Christopher Frey <crispy275 at comcast.net> Subject: Re: very high gravity brewing I have had a fair amount of practice at Super High Gravity beers, having done a series of "experiments" with a gallon of Imperial Stout and a few gallons of a super strong scotch ale. A year ago several of us (David Cords, Scott Day, propprietor of Brew & Grow in Livonia and Steve Close) boiled down an absurd amount of wort and sugars down to just about five gallons of over 20% barley wine after oh, 6 or seven raackings. This is no joke, but Scott threw in 36 ounces of some 13%AA pellets into what started at 12 gallons of initial wort, filtered through 40 lbs. of grains and 3 or 4 cans of liquid malt extract. Our SG was 1.160 and we added almost 15 pounds of candi sugars, DME and other sugars (3 lbs and a few quarts of water, boiled 15m, ice bathed to 75o and then poured onto the cake, wait for takeoff and rack the rest back onto the cake. We did this every few weeks). Each time we racked, throwing the new batch on the yeast cake (originally we started with 1056 (I think), and then after a few weeks we feed the cakes with the WLP 099 SHGY. It kept chewing the wort and we kept feeding it, until this last summer, when, much to my surprise, it was ready, balanced and, as Tony the Tiger said "GREAT!". One hint - don't bother priming these suckers much unless you are really sure it has eaten all the sugars it can! I recently brewed a 14 gallon batch of Strong Scotch ale, hitting 1.121 starting gravity. New to me this year was the addition of what I call "The Twaddler", a 30 inch plastic rod with two little paddles on the end that hang down flat. Hook that sucker up to your power drill and you will areate like a mother! I have always stepped up yeasts days in addvance and usually have 1+ liters of each yeast I plan on using. In this case, I threw the 099 straight onto the smaller carboy (WLP recommends NOT using this yeast for this style - I suspect the malts will get quite chewed up, as it attenuates at 80%+). The other two used appropriate yeasts. So, there they sit, looking popped in primary, so this weekend they will get transfered and I will take gravity readings and report on that and their taste profiles so far. And by the way, this batch I only utilized 7 ounces of fuggles (6.6AA leaf) in the boil, so I am looking for a great Strong Scotch Ale that will make it in a keg to Chicago, along with the recent Triple, Nearly Nirvana Pale Ale...you get the picture. Sees youse all in Chi Town this June! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2003 9:49 am Subject: Re: very high gravity brewing > Chris > > Don't know if you read HBD regularly. I thought you might be > interested in answering this post in today's. > > Jeff > > >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 02:06:53 -0500 > >From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com > >Subject: very high gravity brewing > > > >Greetings, > > > >Having made a smoked potato beer, a wasabi beer, and a blueberry > >braggot (not all of them successful), I'm now interested in > >making a *very* high gravity beer, something on the order of 20%. > >Anyone else done this? > > > >White Labs makes a yeast (WLP099) that is supposed to go to 25% > >and their web site ( http://www.whitelabs.com/gravity.html ) > >lists these suggestions: > > > >*Aerate very heavily, 4 times as much as with a normal gravity > >beer. Less oxygen dissolves into solution at high gravity. > >*Pitch 3-4 times as much yeast as normal. > >*Consider aerating intermittently during the first 5 days of > >fermentation. This will help yeast cells during a very > >difficult fermentation. > >Aerate with oxygen for 30 seconds or air for 5-10 minutes. > >*Higher nutrient levels can allow yeast to tolerate higher > >alcohol levels. Use 2 times the normal nutrient level. This > >is especially important when > >using WLP099 to make wine and mead, which have almost no nutrient > >level to begin with. > >*Do not start with the entire wort sugar at once. Begin > >fermentation with a wort that would produce a 6-8% beer, and add > >wort (it can be concentrated) each day during the first 5 days. > >This can be done together with aeration. This is mandatory if the > >reported 25% ABV is to be achieved. > > > >All these suggestions seem very sensible. My only additional > >thoughts would be to repitch an appropriate yeast(s) each time > >more wort is added. I'd like to hear from anyone who has made (or > >tried to make) a very high gravity beer. TIA. > > > >Cheerio! > >Peter A. Ensminger > >Syracuse, NY > >http://hbd.org/ensmingr > > -- > Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net > "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 > Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 20:13:22 -0500 From: Brian Millard <bjmillard at cox.net> Subject: RE:Mash tun for 10 gallon batches I have been brewing all grain for 10 years. I uses a 55 Quart Converted rectangular Cooler. I use copper tubing in the bottom for drainage. It been working fine for 10 years and it cost about half the price of the 10 gallon Gott cooler. Also there is plenty of room to mash any type of Brew you want to make. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:40:27 -0500 From: "Peter Garofalo" <pgarofa1 at twcny.rr.com> Subject: BJCP Levels In today's HBD, Brian Lundeen says: >As for being "BJCP Recognized, just promoted", all that means is that you >didn't achieve the requisite 60% mark on your first attempt(s), and scored >somewhere in the 60-69% range on your latest try. I would say somewhere in >that missing 30+% are the reasons why you hang on to such beliefs, Bill. I >know a BJCP Certified judge (that's 70-79%) who uses DCL yeasts almost >exclusively. Are you saying he can't pick out phenolics? I have few comments: First off, I believe that Bill mis-stated his recent promotion, as he was recently promoted to the Certified level. That means that he achieved _at least_ a 70 on the exam (no upper range) and has at least five experience points, half of which must be from judging. Examinees commonly assume an upper range to exam scores that does not exist, but only a minimum score (plus experience points) is required for each level. There is no way that Brian or anyone else can presume Mr. Wible's exam score from his statement. It may be that he scored a 99, but only has 5 experience points. That can be his secret...;-) Obviously, this is a point of much debate. Dry yeasts have apparently come a long way from the Red Star Ale yeast that I first used. By the way, I later realized that it led to phenolic beers. That yeast was generally high in contamination, I believe. While the most common cause of phenolic flavors is probably "wild" yeast, chlorophenols have a somewhat similar flavor, but are objectionable in parts per billion. They can only occur when a source of chlorine is present, such as highly chlorinated public water or incompletely rinsed chlorine-based sanitizer (such as bleach). I think the dialogue spurred by Bill's comment is quite interesting. Cheers, Peter Garofalo BJCP Western Exam Director Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:56:10 -0800 (PST) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Mash tun for 10 gallon batches Brian wants to brew 10 gallon all grain batches: "From what I hear, the Gott coolers hold anywhere from 17-25 pounds of grain--not enough grain for any but the lightest beer styles. Ideally, I'd like to be able to get some kind of cooler, screw in the Zymico fitting and Bazooka ( to avoid messing with the false bottom), and mash. Any recommendations?" I mash both 5 and 10 batches in a rectangular cooler. The one I use is a 56 quart model wiht extra insulation. The temp of a 20 pound mash doesn't drop more than a degree F over a 90 minute rest. I have mashed as much as 30 pounds of grist. Slotted copper pipe manifolds are very easily and inexpensively contructed, and are (IMHO and experience) more difficult to "stick" than a perforated false bottom in a cylindrical tun. When our club is doing large brews we use coolers in the 120 quart range with the same manifold setup. Hope that helps, Kent brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:08:54 -0800 From: Rod Tussing <RodT at pplant.UCDavis.edu> Subject: Grain Mills I asked about grain mills about a year ago and got many informative responses from the collective - THANKS. I never did buy a mill last year and now am revisiting the idea and looking for feedback from any millers out there. The mills I am currently considering are: Automatic (St. Pats) Roller Mill Cankandstein CGM-3E Barley Crusher I would like to hear from users of any of these mills (or other mills for that matter) regarding your experiences. The 3 roller design offered by Crankandstein is intriguing and I would really like to hear from any "monster" users out there. Rod Tussing Sacramento, CA [1975.1, 275.1] Miles Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:38:23 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Rogers <bill6beers at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Mash tun for 10 gallon batches Brian Schar writes: <snip> >I would like to step up and start making some good all-grain >beer. My problem is that I'm not sure what to use for a mash tun. > >The consensus on HBD seems to be that the 10-gallon Gott coolers are the >thing to use for all-grain brewing. However, I'm not going to be able to >fit enough grain in one of those for a 10-gallon batch of beer. <snip> Many people in our homebrew club have been using 48-52qt rectangular picnic coolers to good effect. Various types of manifolds have been cobbled together with <$10 worth of plastic or copper plumbing tubing from the local home improvement store. Make a pitchfork shape out of them, or an "H", or a fancy 4-tube model with the 4 ends connected by another tube. Saw slits or drill holes in the underside of all your pipes then run a connector piece to a ball valve on the outside of the convenient factory-installed drain. You'll find these will hold lots of grain for those 10-gallon batches of beer. And they hold temps very well for an hour or more. Bill Rogers Madison, WI ===== "Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book." - -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, and writer (106-43 B.C.) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 00:12:35 -0500 From: Donald and Melissa Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net> Subject: DCL K-97 Yeast/Liquid Yeasts vs Dry Yeasts Drew Avis writes: Don Hellen and H. Dowda ask about US sources for the complete DCL line, including K-97. Can't help you there, but if you can't find one, I wouldn't be afraid to order from Canada. I've ordered stuff from the US that has showed up here in 3 days, and shipping (via US Post *NOT* UPS) is reasonable. Add the exchange rate discount, and you're doing well. BTW PW *did* carry K-97, and may still do so - although they have an excellent web site it's not always up to date - I always call in my order and get clarification on what's available (often lots of stuff not on the site). - --------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not afraid to order from Canada, at least during the more temperate months, but Paddock Woods told me that DCL asked them to stop repackaging the K-97 yeast. It was only available in 500 gm bricks and they were repackaging it for the rest of us who didn't want to buy a large amount like that. Someone told me that a US supplier did offer it (I won't mention the name for fear that DCL will get on their case also) and I will be contacting them. By the way, I've made many good beers with dry yeasts, and some with liquid as well. One brew won an award with dry yeast. I'm sure I could have used a liquid yeast and done as well. I tend to use liquid for lagers, dry for ales, but liquid for some special ales. I'm trying out a dry yeast for a Kolsch right now, and I'd like to try a DCL K-97 for a Kolsch sometime soon. I hope that as production methods improve, we can see more quality dry yeasts for various types of ales and lagers. They're great for wines and meads, and I wouldn't switch for either of those two beverages. Don Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:15:01 -0500 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: re dry yeaat Helomech says ... >... DRY YEAST ... >You just need the right one, and to make a starter with it. You don't "need" the starter when you pitch enough rehydrated yeast. [on direct pitching dry yeast] > Yes you sure can, but if you rehydrate it and add some cooled sterile wort a > few hours before you need to pitch it, you start with a bigger batch of > cells and get a swifter / better fermentation (in my opinion). According to Dr.Cone and and many commercial DCL dry yeast users you don't need to the sort of acclimitization you are suggesting. The dry yeast are not in the same dormant state as a dormant flocculated slurry. Also you aren't making much extra yeast mass in "a few hours". > You can also just sprinkle dry yeast on top of your wort and wait 3 days for > it to start a decent fermentation [...] You're suggesting underpitching and expecting a longer fermentation produces the same flavor results as proper pitching. It doesn't and the evidence is clear. > By the way, next time you want to answer something I post - do it in the > group. I did - check the CC: line next time. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:10:36 -0600 From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Iodophor Staining Paul R asks about staining caused by Iodophor. I've used it, and most of the staining that occurs is in plastic brewery equipment that soaks in the iodine solution (e.g., hoses & plastic fermenters). I have not noticed any staining of floors or sinks. I don't have a laundry sink, so I don't know how susceptible one would be to staining. I have had some staining of light-colored laminate counter tops, primarily from drips of concentrated Iodophor running down the bottle. These stains eventually evaporated out over a few weeks. Tidmarsh Major Tuscaloosa, Ala. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:38:26 -0500 From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com> Subject: Re: Dry Yeast is a joke >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:24:11 -0500 >From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> >Subject: Re: Dry Yeast is a joke > >Ok, enough is enough. > >Let's move on to one or more of the other >thoroughly beaten dead horses again, like: snip > >Let's have some more opinions and rehash these same, tired >old dead arguments again. > >Geeks. > >Bill Gee, Bill. You are really endearing yourself to your clientele... When you make a provocative statement, you shouldn't be surprised if you receive some response challenging your assertions. If you don't want to be put in the position of discussing the basis of your conclusions, feel free to keep them to yourself. BTW, it should also come as no surprise to you, especially if you've been reading the HBD long, that many homebrewers who participate in internet forums are of the geeky persuasion. Did you really think that was a revelation? FWIW, I mostly use liquid yeast for the variety of strains available. Since I typically brew in 10-12 gal batches, I always make a starter, even if use a "pitchable" size liquid yeast. I have and will continue to use dry if I don't have time to make a proper starter. I always keep some dry yeast around as a back-up. Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:55:35 -0500 From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com> Subject: Re: efficiency and malt amounts The bottom line is the % of fermentable vs. non fermentable ingredients contributed to the total batch. Especially if you have a lot of non fermentables (sweeteners, spices, etc.),,, you will not have enough sugars produced by your base and add on malts to produce the volume to make your desired batch size with the same color, bitterness, spice, etc. Your example. ++++ So if the recipe is 10# pale 1# roasted barley at 90%, is it 20# and 2# at 45% efficiency or is it 20# and still 1#. ++++ Yes, according to Pro*Mash's math, you would double the content. 2 row English Pale malt has 1.038 possible fermentables at 100% efficiency with a 3 SRM color rating. English Roasted Barley malt has 1.029 possible fermentables at 100% efficiency with a 575 SRM color rating. Your 10lb Pale and 1 lb Roasted equates to a 40 SRM, same is true if you double both ingredients. The same would not be true if you were including non malt adjuncts. Just make sure that you add the appropriate amount of hops for the amount of wort you are able to extract. Use Pro*Mash for recipe formulation. For $20 something, it is excellent. You can download a free copy to do 5 batches (I believe). Mike Rogers Cass River Homebrewers Mid-Michigan www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers/ <www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers/> mailto:mike01.rogers at yahoo.com <mailto:mike01.rogers at yahoo.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:03:11 -0500 From: william.m.menzl at dowcorning.com Subject: No Sparge runoff rate/Stated IBU in recipes First, thanks to ALL for their opinions on every subject. Being new at this I like to hear both side/everyone's arguments and I learn from both. No on to my two questions. I made a batch of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale using the recipe in "Clone Brews" modified for No Sparge using the calculations in John Palmers "How To Brew". When doing my regular sparging method, my runoff rate was 1.5 to 2 cups per minute. When doing No-Sparge, can I increase that rate (and to what rate) or do I still need to go slow to capture my "normal" amount of sugar? I am looking for an area to speed up my brew day and this looks like it might be an area of opportunity. Second question. I have built myself a spreadsheet of the utilization calculations found in "How to Brew" and they agree with the bitterness formulae found in the front of "Clone Brews". Problem is that when I put a recipe in to my spreadsheet, the IBU's it calculates is not near, and sometimes, very far away than what the recipe indicates. Now it is entirely possible my spreadsheet is off, and I haven't tried the same thing with ProMash (I will soon) but maybe someone has come across this already and has a quick answer. I can provide data and examples but I will leave it at that for now in case someone has dealt with this (since both are popular books) and save some bandwidth for others as it has been getting up there lately. Thanks in advance and Thanks to all those who replied to me about the Rubbermaid/Igloo cooler. I used the Igloo cooler and it worked great! William Menzl Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:07:34 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: All Grain Newbie "Gilbert Milone II" <gilbertmilone at hotmail.com> asks about poor extraction from all grain batches. Easily 9 times out of 10 the cause of this problem is insufficient crushing. Usually new all grain brewers are trying to follow the "just barely crush it" advice you frequently read in books. This may have been good advice for the difficult to adjust Corona mills, but will cause very poor extraction. You should adjust the crush until you find it difficult to see what appears to be uncrushed corns and those that you do see appear undersized. Otherwise a lot of starch ends up locked up in the your mill is unadjustable or is a pain to adjust, run the grain through more than once. Go through your spent grains and look for corn ends. If you find them, you can squeeze them and produce a blob of starch that you paid for and did not get. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:23:21 -0500 From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com> Subject: Iodaphore staining On brew days I fill up a wallpaper soaking tray with Iodaphore sanitizer (great for sanitizing those long items) and throw my airlock in there. By the time the fermenter is ready for it the airlock has a reddish tinge to it. This seems to fade over the course of fermentation. When I go to sanitize my plastic bottling bucket I make sure I have about two gallons of water in it before I add the Iodaphore so there is some dilution before it actually touches the plastic. I also make sure I pour it in very close to the surface so I do not splash it. Yes, the undiluted stuff will stain very fast. - -- Take care, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:35:31 -0500 From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com> Subject: Reclaiming yeast caution (stupid brewer trick) Wow, two posts in a day... I recently tried to save some 1056 from a light ale I made. I swirled up the remaining liquid in the fermentor and poured the contents into a two gallon zip lock plastic bag. I let it sit in the main fridge for a day and it settled out very nicely but my wife asked me to move it to my small beer fridge (a cube fridge) in the basement. A floppy bag of yeast does not sit well on the particularly narrow shelf in my cube bridge (this is an older model and has a smaller compressor than more recent ones I've seen), so I placed it behind the double row of bottles in there. Well, in its shifting around one of the points on the crown caps poked a hole in the bag and let the liquid drain out. The mess wasn't too bad, but I didn't want to risk using the potentially infected yeast on another batch. Some sort of box or shallow basket may be in order for using bags to hold yeast. - -- Take care, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:36:08 -0700 From: "Adam Wead" <a_wead at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Reclaiming yeast from one batch to another I've been doing this for several months now, and it really cuts down on costs, since you don't have to pay $6 for a batch of yeast each time your brew. I have two methods: The first uses 5 oz. mason jars, the kind used for making jelly. I boil about 12 of them to sanitize, then fill the bottoms with 1/4 inch of a mini-wort solution of malt extract, yeast nutrient, and gelatin. I put the lids on while it's still hot and then stick them in the fridge to chill. I can now use these "slants" to culture different varities of yeast. I can take one Wyeast pack and make it into several by saving a about a teaspoon of the yeast solution and "innoculating" each slant with it. Basically, you remove the lid on a fresh slant, after it's warmed up from being in the fridge. Take a santized spoon and dip it in the yeast solution. Then rub the spoon with the solution on the surface of the gelatinized wort in the mason jar. Put the lid back on and leave it at room temperature. In a few days, you'll see some white yeast growing on it and lid will begin to buldge. At that point, put it back in the fridge and it can safely stay there for several months. Then, about a week before brew day, take out the slant and let it warm up. Make a starter. When cooled, pour and little bit of it in your mason jar slant, swirl/scrape to get the yeast in solution, then pour back into the rest of the starter. I've used this techinique lots of times and had good results. Just make sure everything is sanitized. Some suggest even sterilizing with boiling water and flaming the lids of the jars and so forth. I haven't gone that far and haven't had any mishaps...(knock on wood) The second technique, which is easier, is one I got from Jeff, who posted it a few months ago. When a beer is at a high krausen, take a sanitized slotted spoon or some such other utensil, and collect the yeast from the top of the beer. Scoop it into a sanitized mason jar...or heck, I even use old mayonise jars, boiled of course, to clean and sterilze them. Then just throw it in the fridge and your done. You might have to "burp" the jars so they won't explode. You can store the jars in plastic bags just in case... Then you can make a starter from the the slurry leftover in the jar. Always check the starter before you brew...if it's looking or smelling funky, you might have some contaminated yeast. That way you've only lost a starter and not a whole batch of beer. Happy Yeast Ranching! adam Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:36:37 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: false bottoms "Christian Rausch" <christian at rauschbiercompany.com> asks: >Secondly does anyone have any thoughts about false bottom construction? For a really different false bottom construction, check out http://makeashorterlink.com/?G37321203 Feeling frisky this am. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:17:04 -0500 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: pump question, dry yeast discussion Darrell Leavitt asks about the March pump w/ a polysulphone face. This appears to be the exact same pump that Moving Brews sold for years to hundreds of happy homebrewers. I use the same model (but with a bronze face), and a couple of other brewers around here have the polysulphone model - we're all ecstatically happy with our pumps. It's interesting to see that pump prices have risen lately- the bronze version last year was $119, and I notice their polysulphone version is now $129. Perhaps because of a lack of competition? And on the topic of dry yeast (again) - though Bill Wible would like the discussion to end (can't take the heat, Bill? You can always hit "page down", at least until you try a decent dry yeast & come over to the dark side) I think that it's been an excellent exchange of information. Clearly there is much more variety and higher quality today. As Mike Racette points out, C&B has carried these yeasts for over quite some time, but homebrew shops have been slow to adopt them, and only a couple of types are available in homebrewer-sized packs (11 gr). Our local homebrew club has resorted to ordering bricks of other types, and re-packaging them into smaller amounts with a vacuum sealer (PW carries bricks, which is a very economical way to buy these yeasts). Hopefully at some point DCL will clue in that there is a market, and will sell their full line in 11 gr packs. Maybe the AHA could lobby on our behalf? Finally, LJ Levitt wonders if DCL is different from Danstar? Yes, LJ, Danstar is made by Lallemand, DCL is the maker of the Saflager, Safale, and Safbrew line of yeasts (a thoroughly confusing branding and naming strategy). And you can make very good weizens and koelch with some of these dry yeasts to boot. Belgians - that's another story. Cheers! Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:51:52 -0500 From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> Subject: Transfering CO2 from tank to tank My son used to be into paintall, and at one time we had a 100# Dip Tube CO2 tank in the basement for filling the smaller paintball tanks, along with a CO2 Transfer assembly. The Transfer assembly is a set of high pressure lines with the apporopriate control valve and bleed valve for bleeding the air out of the system before begining a transfer. Fortunatly he has moved on from the sport (expensive) and after turining in the Dip Tube tank, I got to wondering about transfering from a standard tank. A dip tube tank is a tank with a tube from the valve all the way to the bottom of the tank to pick up liquid CO2 instead of taking the gas from the top of the tank. I use the Paintball CO2 transfer assembly and made an adapter to hook the I have to invert the 20# CO2 tank to perform the transfer, since it has no dip tube. I actually only get around 60% transfer before it stops, so my 5# tank only gets 3# of fresh CO2. However, it is well worth it. I wear heavy leather gloves and eye protection in case of an incident. Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian "Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von Bismarck Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:53:56 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: Contentious issues (category 5) Bill Wible, the Keeper of the Bridge of Death, writes: > Stop! > Who would cross the Bridge of Death > Must answer me > These questions three > Ere the other side he see. > > - Which is better - liquid Malt Extract or Dry? Dry, of course. > - Do homebrewers really need to worry about hot side aeration? Emphatically, yes. > - What is the best brewing software? ProMash... No, I mean, StrangeBreeeeeeeeeeewaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh!!!! And thus, Brian was cast into the Gorge of Eternal Peril, or as it is commonly known, rec.crafts.brewing. ;-) Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:29:27 -0500 (EST) From: daniel at buffnet.net Subject: yeast treatment Since this has been brought up yet again I thought I would ask a question based on the technique I use. For the most part I use dry yeast and have had good results with many batches of beer and mead. My technique though may be a little different. In my extract brews, just a couple of minutes into the boil I pour off about a liter of wort and cut it with maybe a liter of water, and cool it. When it is at 80deg or so I'll pitch an envelope into the starter and continue with the boil, add hops, cool and so forth on the wort. Almost always by that time the starter has an inch or so of foam and is very opaque with supended cells. Am I fooling myself in thinking that the yeast has significantly multiplied in that time or what? I have found at least this is a good indication of further problems with the yeast, since if I see lots of activity it will be a good ferment and if it has low activity, it will be a problem. Any thoughts? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:45:01 -0600 From: Dave Darity <dave at jamesbaker.com> Subject: Pitching big, and false bottoms Christian R. asked for opinions on false bottoms, I thought I would throw in my .02$. I have been using a false bottom a friend put together for me and I have not seen it used anywhere else. I was using a rubbermaid mash tun and was getting pretty frustrated with stuck sparges. I do not have a picture but I will try my best to describe it. The actual false bottom is a disc made of perforated SS. The disc is approx 10" diam and 2" deep with a non perforated bottom. What makes it a little different is that it has a SS Tube (I believe this was the tube from a 15gall keg) welded into the top of the disc. I drop this into my mash after the grain has had time to convert. After the grain has had time to settle, I drop a SS racking can down the tube and begin draining the wort. I have found a couple of benefits with this. First if I have a stuck sparge I can always pull it out and start over, although I have not had one stick since I began using this. #2 I can use it with my 15gall SS mash tun, and still use this method. It allows me to stir the mash and use direct heat to maintain or increase my mash temp without scorching. It also came in very handy the time I forgot to attach a false bottom to my brew kettle. Like I said I have not seen this anywhere else, but there may be a good reason for that that I have not yet stumbled upon. If anyone would like any more info feel free to email me. I hope this is not too remedial for this goup of highly experienced and knowledgeable brewers, but what do you expect for .02$. Dave Darity - dave at jamesbaker.com OKC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:57:08 -0500 From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Superior Lager Yeast ANyone have experience with "Superior Lager Yeast" from Australia? It is described as slightly "drier" than Saflager, and I am thinking about experimenting with it... ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:20:20 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Pitching big, and false bottoms Christian Rausch asked: "Secondly does anyone have any thoughts about false bottom construction? I have used the B3 stainless for the bottom of a five gallon Gott. It gets stuck all the time and it is starting to get frustrating. I had made one in the past out off a food grade bucket bottom and regret giving it away when I purchased this new one. Any Ideas?" I had boatloads of problems with stuck sparges in a 5 gallon Gott, using a different false bottom. My opinion is that it's not the FB, but the aspect ratio of the mash tun. In a 5 gallon cooler, in ID is so small, and the grainbed height is so high, that controlling your flow rate becomes critical. I got the best results when I throttled the outlet flow to some small value, and let it flow continously while I vorlaufed. In other words, after I filled a pitcher and while I poured it back into the top, I let the flow continue into the kettle. Starting and stopping the flow was problematic. The trick is finding a flow rate low enough. You can't just open the valve and let 'er rip. Later I built a FB for one of my kettles, and began mashing in that. The width to height aspect ratio is closer to 3:2, a much better ratio for getting good flow rates. My sparge time is about 15-20 minutes for a 6.25 initial volume. At that point, my runnings are ususally 1.011. Now I just use the Gott cooler to hold my sparge water... Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
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