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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Steam Beer ("William F. Pemberton")
  Brew/Pubs in Cincinnati? (Chris Shenton)
  aluminum, Vienna malt (Pete Soper)
  Couple O' Recipes ("Andy Wilcox")
  Sharing Homebrew with the Unwashed Masses: Part 2 (Enders)
  Marzen vs. Oktoberfest (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Beer in Europe (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Two replies (John DeCarlo)


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Date:     Tue May  8 09:55:06 1990
From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Steam Beer


 
I need some help on some beer history, specifically the history of Steam
beer.  I got conned into giving a talk on Steam beers next month for my
homebrew club and from what I can see there just isn't a whole lot of info
to be found on the subject.  Any information (the history of Steam beers, the
qualities that define a good Steam beer, etc.) that you folks could supply
would be really appreciated.

On a side note, any ideas that you have for club activities would also be
real nice.  This is a fairly new club, and we seem to be playing it very much
by ear.

Thanks in advance!

Bill Pemberton
(flash at virginia.edu)

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Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:07:12 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Brew/Pubs in Cincinnati?

I'm heading to Cincinnati next week. Anyone know of brewpubs, good bars,
etc (the usual haunts)? Isn't the Oldenburg brewery across the river in
Kentucky? 

Thanks in advance. 

[My other quest is Chili -- any hints?]
____________________________________________________________________________
INET: chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.155)        NASA/GSFC: Code 735
UUCP: ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris               Greenbelt, MD 20771
SPAN: PITCH::CHRIS                    Fax: 301-286-9214  Phone: 301-286-6093

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Date: Mon, 7 May 90 19:14:06 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: aluminum, Vienna malt

>From: hplabs!polstra!jdp (John Polstra)

>I knew I'd regret fanning the embers of the aluminum controversy again :-(

  I certainly don't feel hot over this topic, just a bit self conscious at
the moment.  I think that all of your major points are valid - especially 
about the relative importance of aluminum verses other brewing issues.  I 
remain unconvinced about a few details but certainly can't argue with your 
results, assuming the judges of your beers are not "aluminum acclimated" :-).
  After typing almost this whole reply I just looked back at my earlier
posting and see that the only part of your posting I quoted was the flipping 
health issue piece from UC. My apologies, since this was just a distraction 
that annoyed me.
  As for the health issue, yes, let's leave that alone! My thought was simply 
that aluminum-organic compounds from food reactions might undergo a lot of 
changes and go to very different parts of the body in comparison to relatively 
stable inorganic salts. I just thought the UC statement about Tums was a 
gross oversimplification. Likewise, the reactions with aluminum and wort 
to generate off-flavors might be non-trivial and explain why some people 
report them and some don't.

>As has already been pointed out in this forum, wort is much less acidic
>than many foods, e.g., tomato sauce.  Also, wort is not cooked for as long
>as many sauces and soups.

  Surely we are not arguing over whether or not aluminum gets dissolved by 
acidic solutions but simply the concentrations and rates involved, right? 
As Dr. Beer pointed out, some off-flavors are caused by very low concentrations 
of things. So the fact that pits don't appear in the side of a boil pot,for
instance, doesn't say much to me in this context. But at the same time the 
concentration in a normal wort boil seems to be undetectable for you (and we 
don't know the threshold for taste or smell of "aluminum____" anyway). So why
don't commercial breweries use aluminum, especially if it heats so evenly? 
I'm not trying to be contentious but instead asking *under what circumstances*
can aluminum create noticeable defects in a beer's quality?
If the answer is "never if you avoid such and such practice" then
somebody needs to write to "Zymurgy" and get the demythologizing started. 
  I wonder about the effect of the oxide layer on old aluminum surfaces,
which is relatively inert. Perhaps it acts as an insulating layer in this
case? It might be useful to know if you ever use an abrasive to clean your 
pot and if so, do you use it just prior to brewing or just after brewing?
Perhaps Dan Krus could add "not recently scratched pot" and 
"just scoured pot" as additional variables for those tests he mentioned?
I predict this would produce a significant difference and might shed some
light.

>>(me): But it is interesting to read that you taste no difference.
>I didn't say that.  I said I haven't noticed any off flavors/aromas that
>seemed to be related to the aluminum.  Neither did numerous judges in
>various competitions.

  Sorry I missed the distinction.

>>(me): Others have said the impact on beer flavor is drastic.
>I have never heard *anybody* say that the impact was "drastic".  The

  I was recalling some of the postings the last time this came up and 
specifically the harsh words Dr. T Andrews had about the flavor 
effects of aluminum cookware. I just assumed he and others have senses
of taste very highly tuned to the flavor of aluminum compounds. Actually 
this might have been part of the last Usenet-based aluminum debate
rather than something in the Digest; I can't remember. 
- -------------------------------

>From: GIBSON at rvax.ccit.arizona.edu

>Could I interrupt the great Al debate for a simple question?  Can someone
>out there tell me the difference between Munich and Vienna malts? I've

  Vienna malt is simply kilned at a higher temperature than Munich. It
has a more color and flavor and less enzyme content. It is usually
based on European 2 row lager malt.  There is a recipe for home-made Vienna 
malt in the back of the Miller "Complete Handbook etc" book. If you use 
this home-made method, however, IMHO you'd better have an additional source 
of enzymes for your mash. In fact I can't figure out how Miller's "Marzen"
recipe can convert with home-made Vienna.
- ----------
Pete Soper (soper at encore.com)                          +1 919 481 3730
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA

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Date: Tue, 08 May 90 11:27:56 EDT
From: "Andy Wilcox" <andy at mosquito.cis.ufl.edu>
Subject: Couple O' Recipes


Things are looking good here in Gainesville!  Some of
you may recall that in March, my beers won First and Second
in the monthly homebrew competition.  (Actually, the day
after that was posted, the nice folks from "The Brewster"
called to let me know there was a scoring mistake.  They
actually placed Second and Fifth.  Not bad though, out
of 25 beers! ) Stout was the category of the month.

Here's the recipe for the Second Place beer:

"Blackberry Stout"

History -- Inspired by Papazian, I thought a fruity
stout would be great, but cherries didn't sound good
enough.  Something at the back of the throat, a tangy
sour finish...  Yes!  My favorite childhood fruit!

1 can Mount Mellick Famous Irish Stout Extract
3 #   M&F Dark Dry Malt Extract
4 #   Frozen Blackberries
1 #   Dark Crystal Malt
1/2 # Black Patent Malt
1/2 # Roasted Barley
1.5oz Hallertauer
.5oz  Fuggles
1/2 cup Corn sugar for priming

Specifics: Start all the grains in brewpot with cool water,
remove when boil commences. Add all malt, and Hallertauer
hops. Boil 1 hour.  Add Fuggles hops, boil for 5 more
minutes.  Remove from heat.  Add thawed blackberries and
steep for 15 mins.  Cool and dump the whole mess in the
primary.  When moved to secondary, leave the blackberries
behind.  
This stout reaches it's prime in 4-6 weeks, and rapidly
deteriorates from there, aquiring a winey flavor as the
residual blackberry sweetness erodes.  
(Amateur) Judges Comment: "Good and black.  Good mouth
feel. Unbelievable finish - seems to last forever!  Fruit?
I want the recipe.  Nice Job."

In April, the contest was English Bitters, and I'm happy
to report a First place, for real, out of 8 entries.

"KGB Bitters"

1 can Alexanders Sun Country Pale Malt Extract (4#)
3.3 # Northwester Amber Malt Extract (the stuff in the bag)
1/2 # Dark Crystal
3oz   CFJ-90 Fresh Hops
1/4 tsp Irish moss

Specifics:  Start all the grains in brewpot with cool water,
remove when boil commences. Add all malt, and 1.5oz hops.
Boil 1 hour.  Scoop out boiling hops, and add 1/2oz more
hops, and irish moss.  Boil 5 minutes.  Remove from heat
and add 1/2oz more hops.  Steep 10 minutes and cool.  Add
the wort and final 1/2oz hops to the primary fermenter.
(Amateur) Judges Comment: "Beautiful Color.  A bit under
carbonated.  Great hop nose and finishes very clean.
Good balance with malt and hops.  Lighten up on the
finishing hops a bit and it's perfect.  Very Marketable."

I can't resist mentioning that I've used an aluminum pot
for all the beers (-: (-: (-:  Water filtered with a
simple activated carbon system (I believe this to be VERY
VERY important.  There is a dramatic difference in the
filtered vs. unfiltered water here.  Anybody I've ever
run the blind taste test with the water can tell 
instantly.  I assume it affects the beer in the same way.)
and glass fermenters.

With a second and a first, I'm WAY out in front for
"Hogtown Brewer of the Year"!  Wish me luck with the
"Canadian light honey lager" for this months light(er)
beer showdown.

Comments on the recipes?  Enjoy!

 -Andy


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Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:51:01 -0500
From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Sharing Homebrew with the Unwashed Masses: Part 2


     First, thanks to all who responded!! Your comments and suggestions were
indeed appreciated :-).  Also, there seems to be a bit of confusion on the part
of some as to just what my intentions are/were.  The intent is definately NOT
to duplicate/emulate/whatever standard American swill (it's really pointless
to put good ingredients to such dubious use :-).

     The real intention is somewhat more evangelical.  The ideal result would
be to convert the BudCoorsMiller fans into Raving Ale Fanatics, Bock boosters,
etc.  The vast majority of American beer drinkers are ABSOLUTELY clueless as
to the wonderous variety of beer available, and that a good number of these
styles are readily duplicatable at home, for about the same cost as BudMilob.

     So what I realy wish to do is to expose them to something different
that won't be rejected as toxic brew :-).  I did receive several suggestions
to try tempting them with a Weizenbier.  I'll have to brew up a batch to
try (as I haven't got around to trying a Weizen myself yet! :^) fairly soon.

     Since I was running low, (three bottles left :^) I brewed another batch
of IPA this weekend.  The mash went uneventfully, and the sparge was real
smooth this time also!  I guess I learned my lesson about crushing malt too
fine :-)!.  Extract was down 2 points (probably due to the coarser crush) from
an OG of 1.043 for batch #1 to 1.041 for batch #2.  I pitched with recultured
Wyeast #1028, and had a strong fermentation going in about 8 hrs. (recultured
from a bottle of batch #1, in 500ml of 1.040 wort made from extract)

     I'm definately going to have to expand my production facilities.  I
still want to wait before going to 5 gal batches until I can swing a stainless
brewpot.  What I really need is more fermentation equipment and/or more bottles
(hey, now there's a good use to put your unwashed friends/relatives to: buy 
them a couple of cases of cheap american swill in bar bottles, they drink it,
and you get the bottles :-) :-) :-).  Anybody know where to get ahold of
some 3-3.5 gal glass carboys???  A couple of 5 gal ones for primaries, and
I'd be able to brew 3 batches at a time, or brew a batch every weekend :-)

Todd Enders                            arpa: enders at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                        uucp: ...!uunet!plains
Minot State University                   !ihnp4!umn-cs!plains!enders
Minot, ND 58701                        Bitnet: enders at plains.BITNET


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Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:42:12 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Marzen vs. Oktoberfest

I believe that Marzen and Oktoberfest are the same style.  I
somehow recall that it is called Marzen because beer in this style
is usually started in March (Marzen in German) with the intention
of being distributed in October (for Oktoberfest).

Al.


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Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:42:44 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Beer in Europe

Chris--
I suggest:

1. Germany 2. Bavaria 3, Munchen (although every town over 500
inhabitants has a brewery) 4. There are literally dozens.

Notes: I've been there. I loved it. Augsburg is also a great town.
It had just celebrated it's 2000th (yes, 2 * 10^3) anniversary.
The Riegele (sp?) Brewery is next to the Banhoff (Train station).
I suggest getting a Eurail pass, setting up base camp in a small
town hostel near Munchen and then make day trips via train.

1. Czechoslovakia 2. Pilsen (?) 3. Pilsen 4. ????

Notes: I've never been there. It's the birthplace of Pilsener.
Eurail passes may not work - they did not work in East Germany
two years ago.

Al.


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Date: Tuesday, 8 May 1990 13:50:05 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Two replies

>From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
>
>However, these folks aren't "beer literate"
>(i.e Coors & Bud fans all :^).  The general consensus was that everything
>I offered them to taste (my own IPA, Bass for comparison, and Anchor porter
>for something a little bit different) was "way too bitter" (my brother made
>some comment about being served brake fluid :^).
> ...
>     This is just a thought.  How do YOU deal with introducing homebrew to
>the *unwashed masses*?  If YOU had to brew something to please total
>strangers, what would it be?  I'm open to suggestions/ideas/etc.

Well, I had a homebrew tasting at my house a couple of weeks ago.  Most of
the people there had no beer-expertise, while three of them did.  The
general consensus was that my *bitter* was the best.  It was not hopped
very much, and was somewhat sweeter because I used brown sugar to prime.  I
actually didn't add any hops, just used a kit, so don't know what level
of hops was in there (Tom Caxton).

Surprisingly to me, many also liked the Naked Sunday Brown Ale (Papazian).
I didn't like it because of all the sugar giving it a fizzy, non-beer IMHO,
kind of taste, but many of them liked it.

In conclusion, I like bitters of various types and plan to brew more of
them, and offer that to the people without exposure to non-Budmillob type
beers.

>From: pms at Corp.Sun.COM (Patrick Stirling (Sun HQ Consulting Services))
>
>geysers after 2 months in the bottle. Must be an infection of some
>kind.

Here is a WAG.  Throw out all your plastic tubing and buy new ones.
Dave Miller suggests you may need to do this periodically and I think
he is right.  I did that recently and noticed a slight improvement (of
course, it might be psychological).  I strongly suspect that plastic
tubing never quite gets as clean as the equipment you can scrub clean.

ARPANET:  M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa)
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #415, 05/09/90
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