HOMEBREW Digest #415 Wed 09 May 1990

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Steam Beer ("William F. Pemberton")
  Brew/Pubs in Cincinnati? (Chris Shenton)
  aluminum, Vienna malt (Pete Soper)
  Couple O' Recipes ("Andy Wilcox")
  Sharing Homebrew with the Unwashed Masses: Part 2 (Enders)
  Marzen vs. Oktoberfest (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Beer in Europe (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Two replies (John DeCarlo)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue May 8 09:55:06 1990 From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.virginia.edu> Subject: Steam Beer I need some help on some beer history, specifically the history of Steam beer. I got conned into giving a talk on Steam beers next month for my homebrew club and from what I can see there just isn't a whole lot of info to be found on the subject. Any information (the history of Steam beers, the qualities that define a good Steam beer, etc.) that you folks could supply would be really appreciated. On a side note, any ideas that you have for club activities would also be real nice. This is a fairly new club, and we seem to be playing it very much by ear. Thanks in advance! Bill Pemberton (flash at virginia.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:07:12 EDT From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Brew/Pubs in Cincinnati? I'm heading to Cincinnati next week. Anyone know of brewpubs, good bars, etc (the usual haunts)? Isn't the Oldenburg brewery across the river in Kentucky? Thanks in advance. [My other quest is Chili -- any hints?] ____________________________________________________________________________ INET: chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov ( NASA/GSFC: Code 735 UUCP: ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris Greenbelt, MD 20771 SPAN: PITCH::CHRIS Fax: 301-286-9214 Phone: 301-286-6093 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 May 90 19:14:06 EDT From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com> Subject: aluminum, Vienna malt >From: hplabs!polstra!jdp (John Polstra) >I knew I'd regret fanning the embers of the aluminum controversy again :-( I certainly don't feel hot over this topic, just a bit self conscious at the moment. I think that all of your major points are valid - especially about the relative importance of aluminum verses other brewing issues. I remain unconvinced about a few details but certainly can't argue with your results, assuming the judges of your beers are not "aluminum acclimated" :-). After typing almost this whole reply I just looked back at my earlier posting and see that the only part of your posting I quoted was the flipping health issue piece from UC. My apologies, since this was just a distraction that annoyed me. As for the health issue, yes, let's leave that alone! My thought was simply that aluminum-organic compounds from food reactions might undergo a lot of changes and go to very different parts of the body in comparison to relatively stable inorganic salts. I just thought the UC statement about Tums was a gross oversimplification. Likewise, the reactions with aluminum and wort to generate off-flavors might be non-trivial and explain why some people report them and some don't. >As has already been pointed out in this forum, wort is much less acidic >than many foods, e.g., tomato sauce. Also, wort is not cooked for as long >as many sauces and soups. Surely we are not arguing over whether or not aluminum gets dissolved by acidic solutions but simply the concentrations and rates involved, right? As Dr. Beer pointed out, some off-flavors are caused by very low concentrations of things. So the fact that pits don't appear in the side of a boil pot,for instance, doesn't say much to me in this context. But at the same time the concentration in a normal wort boil seems to be undetectable for you (and we don't know the threshold for taste or smell of "aluminum____" anyway). So why don't commercial breweries use aluminum, especially if it heats so evenly? I'm not trying to be contentious but instead asking *under what circumstances* can aluminum create noticeable defects in a beer's quality? If the answer is "never if you avoid such and such practice" then somebody needs to write to "Zymurgy" and get the demythologizing started. I wonder about the effect of the oxide layer on old aluminum surfaces, which is relatively inert. Perhaps it acts as an insulating layer in this case? It might be useful to know if you ever use an abrasive to clean your pot and if so, do you use it just prior to brewing or just after brewing? Perhaps Dan Krus could add "not recently scratched pot" and "just scoured pot" as additional variables for those tests he mentioned? I predict this would produce a significant difference and might shed some light. >>(me): But it is interesting to read that you taste no difference. >I didn't say that. I said I haven't noticed any off flavors/aromas that >seemed to be related to the aluminum. Neither did numerous judges in >various competitions. Sorry I missed the distinction. >>(me): Others have said the impact on beer flavor is drastic. >I have never heard *anybody* say that the impact was "drastic". The I was recalling some of the postings the last time this came up and specifically the harsh words Dr. T Andrews had about the flavor effects of aluminum cookware. I just assumed he and others have senses of taste very highly tuned to the flavor of aluminum compounds. Actually this might have been part of the last Usenet-based aluminum debate rather than something in the Digest; I can't remember. - ------------------------------- >From: GIBSON at rvax.ccit.arizona.edu >Could I interrupt the great Al debate for a simple question? Can someone >out there tell me the difference between Munich and Vienna malts? I've Vienna malt is simply kilned at a higher temperature than Munich. It has a more color and flavor and less enzyme content. It is usually based on European 2 row lager malt. There is a recipe for home-made Vienna malt in the back of the Miller "Complete Handbook etc" book. If you use this home-made method, however, IMHO you'd better have an additional source of enzymes for your mash. In fact I can't figure out how Miller's "Marzen" recipe can convert with home-made Vienna. - ---------- Pete Soper (soper at encore.com) +1 919 481 3730 Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 08 May 90 11:27:56 EDT From: "Andy Wilcox" <andy at mosquito.cis.ufl.edu> Subject: Couple O' Recipes Things are looking good here in Gainesville! Some of you may recall that in March, my beers won First and Second in the monthly homebrew competition. (Actually, the day after that was posted, the nice folks from "The Brewster" called to let me know there was a scoring mistake. They actually placed Second and Fifth. Not bad though, out of 25 beers! ) Stout was the category of the month. Here's the recipe for the Second Place beer: "Blackberry Stout" History -- Inspired by Papazian, I thought a fruity stout would be great, but cherries didn't sound good enough. Something at the back of the throat, a tangy sour finish... Yes! My favorite childhood fruit! 1 can Mount Mellick Famous Irish Stout Extract 3 # M&F Dark Dry Malt Extract 4 # Frozen Blackberries 1 # Dark Crystal Malt 1/2 # Black Patent Malt 1/2 # Roasted Barley 1.5oz Hallertauer .5oz Fuggles 1/2 cup Corn sugar for priming Specifics: Start all the grains in brewpot with cool water, remove when boil commences. Add all malt, and Hallertauer hops. Boil 1 hour. Add Fuggles hops, boil for 5 more minutes. Remove from heat. Add thawed blackberries and steep for 15 mins. Cool and dump the whole mess in the primary. When moved to secondary, leave the blackberries behind. This stout reaches it's prime in 4-6 weeks, and rapidly deteriorates from there, aquiring a winey flavor as the residual blackberry sweetness erodes. (Amateur) Judges Comment: "Good and black. Good mouth feel. Unbelievable finish - seems to last forever! Fruit? I want the recipe. Nice Job." In April, the contest was English Bitters, and I'm happy to report a First place, for real, out of 8 entries. "KGB Bitters" 1 can Alexanders Sun Country Pale Malt Extract (4#) 3.3 # Northwester Amber Malt Extract (the stuff in the bag) 1/2 # Dark Crystal 3oz CFJ-90 Fresh Hops 1/4 tsp Irish moss Specifics: Start all the grains in brewpot with cool water, remove when boil commences. Add all malt, and 1.5oz hops. Boil 1 hour. Scoop out boiling hops, and add 1/2oz more hops, and irish moss. Boil 5 minutes. Remove from heat and add 1/2oz more hops. Steep 10 minutes and cool. Add the wort and final 1/2oz hops to the primary fermenter. (Amateur) Judges Comment: "Beautiful Color. A bit under carbonated. Great hop nose and finishes very clean. Good balance with malt and hops. Lighten up on the finishing hops a bit and it's perfect. Very Marketable." I can't resist mentioning that I've used an aluminum pot for all the beers (-: (-: (-: Water filtered with a simple activated carbon system (I believe this to be VERY VERY important. There is a dramatic difference in the filtered vs. unfiltered water here. Anybody I've ever run the blind taste test with the water can tell instantly. I assume it affects the beer in the same way.) and glass fermenters. With a second and a first, I'm WAY out in front for "Hogtown Brewer of the Year"! Wish me luck with the "Canadian light honey lager" for this months light(er) beer showdown. Comments on the recipes? Enjoy! -Andy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:51:01 -0500 From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu> Subject: Sharing Homebrew with the Unwashed Masses: Part 2 First, thanks to all who responded!! Your comments and suggestions were indeed appreciated :-). Also, there seems to be a bit of confusion on the part of some as to just what my intentions are/were. The intent is definately NOT to duplicate/emulate/whatever standard American swill (it's really pointless to put good ingredients to such dubious use :-). The real intention is somewhat more evangelical. The ideal result would be to convert the BudCoorsMiller fans into Raving Ale Fanatics, Bock boosters, etc. The vast majority of American beer drinkers are ABSOLUTELY clueless as to the wonderous variety of beer available, and that a good number of these styles are readily duplicatable at home, for about the same cost as BudMilob. So what I realy wish to do is to expose them to something different that won't be rejected as toxic brew :-). I did receive several suggestions to try tempting them with a Weizenbier. I'll have to brew up a batch to try (as I haven't got around to trying a Weizen myself yet! :^) fairly soon. Since I was running low, (three bottles left :^) I brewed another batch of IPA this weekend. The mash went uneventfully, and the sparge was real smooth this time also! I guess I learned my lesson about crushing malt too fine :-)!. Extract was down 2 points (probably due to the coarser crush) from an OG of 1.043 for batch #1 to 1.041 for batch #2. I pitched with recultured Wyeast #1028, and had a strong fermentation going in about 8 hrs. (recultured from a bottle of batch #1, in 500ml of 1.040 wort made from extract) I'm definately going to have to expand my production facilities. I still want to wait before going to 5 gal batches until I can swing a stainless brewpot. What I really need is more fermentation equipment and/or more bottles (hey, now there's a good use to put your unwashed friends/relatives to: buy them a couple of cases of cheap american swill in bar bottles, they drink it, and you get the bottles :-) :-) :-). Anybody know where to get ahold of some 3-3.5 gal glass carboys??? A couple of 5 gal ones for primaries, and I'd be able to brew 3 batches at a time, or brew a batch every weekend :-) Todd Enders arpa: enders at plains.nodak.edu Computer Center uucp: ...!uunet!plains Minot State University !ihnp4!umn-cs!plains!enders Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders at plains.BITNET Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:42:12 mdt From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Marzen vs. Oktoberfest I believe that Marzen and Oktoberfest are the same style. I somehow recall that it is called Marzen because beer in this style is usually started in March (Marzen in German) with the intention of being distributed in October (for Oktoberfest). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 10:42:44 mdt From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Beer in Europe Chris-- I suggest: 1. Germany 2. Bavaria 3, Munchen (although every town over 500 inhabitants has a brewery) 4. There are literally dozens. Notes: I've been there. I loved it. Augsburg is also a great town. It had just celebrated it's 2000th (yes, 2 * 10^3) anniversary. The Riegele (sp?) Brewery is next to the Banhoff (Train station). I suggest getting a Eurail pass, setting up base camp in a small town hostel near Munchen and then make day trips via train. 1. Czechoslovakia 2. Pilsen (?) 3. Pilsen 4. ???? Notes: I've never been there. It's the birthplace of Pilsener. Eurail passes may not work - they did not work in East Germany two years ago. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 8 May 1990 13:50:05 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Two replies >From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu> > >However, these folks aren't "beer literate" >(i.e Coors & Bud fans all :^). The general consensus was that everything >I offered them to taste (my own IPA, Bass for comparison, and Anchor porter >for something a little bit different) was "way too bitter" (my brother made >some comment about being served brake fluid :^). > ... > This is just a thought. How do YOU deal with introducing homebrew to >the *unwashed masses*? If YOU had to brew something to please total >strangers, what would it be? I'm open to suggestions/ideas/etc. Well, I had a homebrew tasting at my house a couple of weeks ago. Most of the people there had no beer-expertise, while three of them did. The general consensus was that my *bitter* was the best. It was not hopped very much, and was somewhat sweeter because I used brown sugar to prime. I actually didn't add any hops, just used a kit, so don't know what level of hops was in there (Tom Caxton). Surprisingly to me, many also liked the Naked Sunday Brown Ale (Papazian). I didn't like it because of all the sugar giving it a fizzy, non-beer IMHO, kind of taste, but many of them liked it. In conclusion, I like bitters of various types and plan to brew more of them, and offer that to the people without exposure to non-Budmillob type beers. >From: pms at Corp.Sun.COM (Patrick Stirling (Sun HQ Consulting Services)) > >geysers after 2 months in the bottle. Must be an infection of some >kind. Here is a WAG. Throw out all your plastic tubing and buy new ones. Dave Miller suggests you may need to do this periodically and I think he is right. I did that recently and noticed a slight improvement (of course, it might be psychological). I strongly suspect that plastic tubing never quite gets as clean as the equipment you can scrub clean. ARPANET: M14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm at mitre.arpa) Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #415, 05/09/90 ************************************* -------
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