HOMEBREW Digest #416 Thu 10 May 1990

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Dry Hopping, Wort Chilling, Overdoing Things (Gary Benson)
  Maerzen, Stainless (Jay H)
  Re:  Sharing Homebrew (techentin)
  Vienna vs. Munich malt (Enders)
  Re:brake fluid (Jason Goldman)
  Wheat Beer (ron)
  Lager questions.. (David Lim)
  Wyeast package bursts (Drew) Lynch <atl at stardent.COM>
  Oktoberfest and Marzen (florianb)
  Beer Travels (durk)
  Homebrew Digest #415 (May 09, 1990) (MMCDANIE)
  Re: Brewpubs in Cincinnati (Scott Bobo)
  Diacetyl (Bill Crick)
  stuck fermentations (Chip Hitchcock)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 May 90 23:50:11 PDT From: inc at tc.fluke.COM (Gary Benson) Subject: Dry Hopping, Wort Chilling, Overdoing Things Only a few bottles remain of my first batch that used dry hopping, and I'm very pleased wiht the results. I only tried dry hopping as a result of the discussion here. It was a brown ale from extract, and using all leaf hops, this was my hopping schedule in a 1 hour boil: 1 oz Cascade - 1 hour 1/2 oz Cascade - 40 minutes 1/2 oz Fuggles - 20 minutes 1/2 oz Fuggles - dry hopped It was in the primary about 1 week. Starting at 1040, it was 1030 when I transferred it to the secondary, where it was for about 10 days. Activity really got slow, so when SG was at 1020 for a week, I bottled. Apparently this is not very good attenuation. I was hoping for at least 1010. This was two cans of John Bull dark unhopped extract with no added sugars or other fermentables. Questions: do hops adversely affect the vitality of yeast? Specifically, are yeast less attenutative in the presence of higher concentrations of hop oils? Are these gravity numbers what I should expect of Edme yeast? Is 1040 a reasonable starting gravity for a two-can, 5-gallon batch boiled for an hour? Could it have been higher and I just measured it too warm? My second topic: wort cooling I GOTTA get a get wort chiller! Again, after reading here about the many advantages of swiftly lowering the wort temperature, for this batch I put the entire kettle in the kitchen sink. I use an enamel canning kettle. I rigged a sponge in the drain to regulate outflow, and just let the cold water drizzle into the sink around the pot. It worked great, lowering the temperature to 90F in about one hour! (Accurate measurements courtesy of my Fluke DVM with temperature probe!) Of course, now that I think of it, perhaps I got such a lot of hop flavor because I did not strain the boiling hops out until I poured into the primary. I'v begun rehydrating at the suggestion of many here in this digest, to good effect. It sure was fun, though, pitching the yeast on the same night as I brewed, and waking up the next morning to the cheerful sounds of bubbling yeasties!! Final topic: overdoing it I think for novice brewers (like myself), there is a certain value in occasionally going overboard as part of the learning process. In fact, I understand that to learn to be an official AHA brew judge, you must go through a course that uses exactly this technique. Often I've heard and read of "overhopped" beer, and couldn't imagine such a thing since I am very fond of hops smell and flavor. Well, this batch is overhopped, but even so, it is valuable for me to know just what overhopped tastes like. It is still drinkable, (what me worry?) but has taught me at least that it IS possible to get too much. The secret is balance, according to what I've read, and while this batch may be overhopped, the same amount of hoppiness might be very desirable (or even necessary) in a more robustly malt flavored brew or in a sweeter one. Similarly, I never really knew what "cidery" meant when applied to beer. A few batches ago, I purposely added 3 pounds of cane sugar to see if I could find out. Well guess what? It tasted like cider! Not unpleasantly so if that's what you were expecting, just not a real beer kind of flavor. I wound up retiring that "recipe", and called the batch Cider Beer. For my stout, I gradually increased the amount of brewer's licorice until I finally could locate the particular note it was adding - one it turns out I had not cared for all that much, so I will probably be dropping the licorice in the future! The last batch had one full 6-inch stick, and the flavor was unmistakable, although not readily identifiable as licorice. Enough from me! I'll go back to reading and enjoying our wonderful Digest, and thanks once again to all who make it the quality reading it is. Happy hoppy brewing, everybody... Oh! ps: Would the person who has the quote in their .signature reading: If it's good for ancient druids, running nekkid through the wuids, drinkin' strange fermented fluids, then it's good enough for me. please tell us where that came from? Is it original? 14th century England? oops - one last thing: the recent remark about using a hydrometer being just a form of worrying too much struck a real chord with me. I agree that thef information you gain is minimal against the chance of infection; but mihgt that only be true after some learning period? As a relative newcomer, I don't feel I have enough experience yet to "know what the meter is going to show anyway". I was also interested in the digital meter someone proposed a while back - what became of that? I have visions of plugging a hydrometer probe into my FLUKE DVM, then hooking up a (borrowed) Data Logger and chart recorder. "What me Worry? Hell, Jake, brewin' beers' a cinch. Just watch that line, and when it stays level for three days, bottle it!" - -- Gary Benson -=[ S M I L E R ]=- -_-_-_-inc at fluke.tc.com_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- I never loved another person the way I loved myself. -Mae West Return to table of contents
Date: 08 May 90 16:11:35 EDT From: Jay H <75140.350 at compuserve.com> Subject: Maerzen, Stainless If I remember it correctly Maerzen & Oktoberfest used to be the same beer. The beer was brewed during the winter for festivals in spring (March== Maerzen). When the weather got warm the stuff was hauled to the ice caves to be stored for the summer and consumed intermittenly, mostly this was because people drank the lighter beers during the summer. When the harvest came and the fall/winter brewing season came round again it was time to empty the kegs. Hence BIG PARTY!!==Oktoberfest. This sounds reasonable but so did the concept of Bartles & James (what they don't really exist??). As for Stainless steel brewpots, god how cheap can you be??? I got my 5 gallon stainless pot (brand name Metro) at a Bradlees for $30-$35. I had to search like hell for the 6 gallon one so I'd have headroom to do a full 5 gallon boil. I found it in a rest. supply place in Toronto's chinatown for $60. I expect you could do similar in most any chinatown, seems these types of stores are real popular in those sections. In any case the last thing you need to do is shell out $150++ for the normal restaurant grade stainless. There are affordable home grade stainless pots readily available for all but the most remote of homebrewers!! If you really want to use stainless then JUST BREW IT!! (The previous slogan is a registered trademark of Jay S. Hersh and the Boston Wort Processors any use of this slogan without written consent of the author will cost you a homebrew, come to think of it it will cost you a homebrew even with written consent, hell just send me a homebrew anyway!) - Jay H NIKE who the hell are they?? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 08:33:31 CDT From: techentin at Mayo.edu Subject: Re: Sharing Homebrew After reading my reply to Todd Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu> posting about which-brews-can-budmillobe-drinkers-handle-and-not-choke, I realized that I had been a little harsh. I decided to wait a bit, just to see what kind of response would appear. To be frank, I was surprised that I didn't get seriously flamed for being so self rightous. Is everybody so hostile towards the uneducated that they can't even post a "Hey Bob! Lighten Up!"? I'd like to ask if anyone has had any luck brewing "lite" style beers. Is it possible? My one (bad) experience in this arena was an infected light lager that tasted truely nasty. Can this stuff be brewed at home, or is the risk of infection just too great? My best beers have all been in the O.G. range of 1.040-060, so I'm not sure I could do a good job at 1.020-030. Any hints? On a lighter note (pun intended), the most popular single word description of American Style Mass Produced Pilsner would appear to be "Swill." (for those of you who are counting). - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Techentin Internet: techentin at Mayo.edu Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN, 55905 USA (507) 284-2702 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 10:03:44 -0500 From: Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu> Subject: Vienna vs. Munich malt Not to be flaming anyone, but Vienna is the lighter malt. 1. Vienna malt 6.5 deg. Lovibond 2. light Munich malt 10 deg. Lovibond 3. dark Munich malt 20 deg. Lovibond As to whether homemade Vienna malt can be trusted to convert or not, it probably can, IF you mash cool (ca. 150 deg. F) and long (2 hrs or more). I'd also have the iodine handy for a starch test or two. And finally, I'd have a couple pounds of crushed Klages on hand, just in case :-). Todd Enders arpa: enders at plains.nodak.edu Computer Center uucp: ...!uunet!plains!enders or Minot State University ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders at plains.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 09:10:12 mdt From: Jason Goldman <jdg at hplsdli.cos.hp.com> Subject: Re:brake fluid Regarding "Beer For The Masses": Shortly after I began brewing, I bartered a case of a special batch of beer to a friend. I asked him what type of beer he liked and he replied, "Whatever's on sale." ;-( I made a variation on one of Papazian'z Light American Beer recipes from TCJOH. It was too mundane for my tastes, but he loved it. Later, when we bargained again, he said he'd be willing to drink anything I made for him. As tempting as it was to make a heavy stout, I made a mild Brown Ale. The idea was to give him something dark without being too heavy. This went over real well. I figure that I can train him to stout in a couple of years ;-) I have several friends who are used to drinking swill, but most are willing to try my beers. Unless I make a stout or porter, which I don't think that they'd like, I get a reasonable amount of appreciation. The beers that have gone over the best with this crowd are my Wiezen and a recent batch of a honey lager. Both of these are drinkable (the Wiezen is great) but not too extreme for people with pedestrian taste. Fortunately, I do have friends who appreciate real beer, so I'm not constrained to making milder brews. Jason Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 May 90 10:14:36 PDT From: ron at hpisoa2.hp.com Subject: Wheat Beer Full-Name: Ron Gould I'm planning on brewing my first batch of wheat beer and I'm looking for recipe suggestions. I will be using 6 lbs. of wheat malt extract and plan to use the Wyeast Bavarian Wheat Yeast. Other than this I'm open to suggestions as to other malts that may/should be added and also the types of hops that go well with wheat beers. So, if you have some recipe or suggestions please post them. Thanks, Ron Gould Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 11:39:09 MDT From: David Lim <limd at boulder.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Lager questions.. I've just bought myself a little refrigerator and fitted it with a more accurate thermostat and am ready to start my first attempts at lagers. Various books out there (Papazian, Miller, ...) mention that if the secondary fermentation is very long, it might be necessary to add additional yeast when priming to get the carbonation-fermentation kick-started. I'm assuming a prolong cold-storage before bottling can make the first crop of yeast go to sleep such that they'll not wake enough to carbonate the beer. It seems that as long as you don't let the cold-aging period last too long, the yeast will still be active enough at priming time to carbonate the lager. What do you experienced lager brewers do? How long after the fermentation subsides do you cold-age the beer before bottling? Is adding in some yeast during bottling a common practice (this is something I'd rather not have to do)? Thanks! -Davin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 10:07:23 PDT From: Andrew (Drew) Lynch <atl at stardent.COM> Subject: Wyeast package bursts In HBD #414 Len Reed writes: > I meant to use Wyeast Bavarian yeast for my "Dos Equis," but I had > a stupid accident with it. (I left the swollen package so long it > burst.) ... I use Wyeast products and if I recall correctly, you are supposed to let them sit (after activating them) for one day per month past the date stamped on the package. This usually means that I activate the package about Thursday to brew on Saturday or Sunday. I usually find that by sometime on Friday the package *looks* like it is going to burst. My questions are; How long did it take for this package to burst, and How closely should I follow the timing instructions on the package? Thanks Much, Drew Return to table of contents
Date: 09 May 90 11:22:16 PDT (Wed) From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com Subject: Oktoberfest and Marzen In #415, Algis R Korzonas sez, >I believe that Marzen and Oktoberfest are the same style. I >somehow recall that it is called Marzen because beer in this style >is usually started in March (Marzen in German) with the intention >of being distributed in October (for Oktoberfest). Ahem. Having lived in Germany (on the local economy, as it's called) I can offer some perhaps more accurate information. Marzen beer, according to my Munchen native friends, is to be consumed in Spring. Oktoberfest is to be consumed in the fall at harvest time. I have consumed my share (and more) of each, and although the style may be similar or the same, the two beers are vastly different in taste. Oktoberfest is a variation on normal Munich lager, but brewed stronger, for the celebration. It is a bit sweeter than helles, somewhat darker, and a little more bitter. (The Stuttgarter Volksfest beer, brewed for the same reason, is dryer, much more bitter, and much stronger.) Marzen beer is sweeter than Oktoberfest and, if memory serves, is balanced with greater bitterness, although still low by Swabish, Bohemian, or Northern German standards. In addition, it is darker, having more dark malt content. I have been able to duplicate true Marzen beer with a made-up recipe. I can send it to whomever is interested. While I'm on the subject, I'd like to point out that the "good books", Charlie Papazian in his recent article on German beer, and seemingly everyone else in North America is ignoring a whole subculture of beer from Germany. This is the Swabish beer. I have never seen a recipe for Swabish Pils or Swabish lager in any book, nor have I heard anyone mention it in the Brewpub newsletters, and so on. My recent efforts in brewing lagers have been oriented at brewing Swabish beers, with the intention of expanding the homebrew knowledge on this vast, apparently uncharted area. But I digress... Florian, the determined. Return to table of contents
Date: 9 May 90 14:50:13 EDT (Wed) From: dialogic!durk at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Beer Travels In digest #414, Chris Yerga writes: > ... I'm looking for pointers to beer hot spots in Europe. >The only thing we are sure of in advance is that we will hit >Great Britain and Belgium. Beyond this we will be improvising, >and any info from fellow HBML'ers may steer us towards a particular >1: Country, 2: Region, 3: Town, 4: Brewery/Beer Garden, etc. When in England, each region/county/city generally has its own style of Bitter. Try them all! 8-) I lived over there for nine years and never tired for the variety. When you go into a pub, if the publican 'draws' the pint by pulling a long handle three or fours times, then you know you are getting a real ale. But beware. Some tricky pubs have the long handles but still pump the beer via CO2. I also wholeheartedly urge you to visit Austria if for no other reason than to see it. Undoubtedly, one of Europe's most beautiful cities is Salzburg (you know, The Sound of Music place). They also have a local brewery. It is in an old monastary (15th century if I remember right) with an enclosed courtyard where you can sip from a clay liter or half-liter mug under the trees. (I whiled away many a summer hour under those trees. It is called the Augustiner Braustubl (pronounced Owgoosteener broystewbel) -- ask anyone there, they will direct you to it. You might also want to buy a stadtplan (city map). The braustubl has several indoor halls for loud raucous behavior and general merriment. 8-) And if you are hungry, there are a good dozen food kiosks in the hallways. I used to buy the cut and salted radishes. They goes excellently with the beer!! Speaking of the beer, when you go in, there are shelves and shelves of dirty mugs all along the walls. Go on up and pick yourself a good one. You then have to take it over to what looks like a horse trough and clean it out yourself using your hand or whatever. Next, get in line for the cashier. She will take your money and give you a sales slip. Take the slip over to the big surly guy in the white smock. He'll take it and your mug and draw the brew from a huge wooden cask brought up from the cellar. Enjoy! This place has atmosphere and the beer is OK too. I hope my reminiscent ramblings hasn't bored anyone. I think I just made myself homesick -- or is that braustublsick? 8-) Cheers, Durk Dave Durkin | "You can tune a piano | Dialogic Corp. durk at dialogic.com | but you can't tuna fish" | Parsippany, NJ 07054 durk at dialogic.uucp | -- Groucho Marx | (201) 334-1268 x105 Return to table of contents
Date: 9 May 1990 14:58:17 EDT From: MMCDANIE at UMAB.UMD.EDU Subject: Homebrew Digest #415 (May 09, 1990) test reply Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 90 10:41:24 PDT From: Scott Bobo <scott at hprmokg> Subject: Re: Brewpubs in Cincinnati Full-Name: Scott Bobo Chris - I used to live in Cincinnati and visit my family there once or twice a year. Unfortunately, there aren't as many brewpubs in Cincinnati as it's strongl Germanic heritage might promise. Most of the local breweries have consolidated (Hudepohl/Shoenling/Burger) or have been bought up by larger brewers (Wiedemann). Oldenburg is the only "pub" I'm aware of. It's not just a brewpub, though. It's more like a combination of a beer museum, a restaurant, a brewpub, and a enormous beer hall. The brew's pretty good, but it's only half the show. I don't know ho many gazillions of cans they have on display, but they have paraphernalia (sp?) going back to the 1870's. It's in Ft Mitchell, Ky, on I-75 at the Buttermilk Pike exit. Very handy for those flying in and out, 'cause it's on the way to the airport. Allow yourself an hour or two to look around, if you go. I'm not a real antique or kitsch buff, but I found this interesting. There's a local brew called Christian Moerlien that's worth trying. Chili - don't get me started. I miss an all night chili parlor more than anything. There's really nothing better for the late night snackies than a four-way bear and a couple of cheese coneys. Ahhh, memories. There's two big chains in Cincinnati - Skyline (the original Cincy chili) and Gold Star (also good). Go to both and compare. Hangouts - the City View Inn on Oregon St. in Mt. Adams has a small back deck (two tables from K-mart) that offers a great view of the eastern side of downtown and sunsets. Arnold's has a lot of atmosphere, too. Scott Bobo scott at hprmokg.HP.COM (916) 785-4728 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 1990 16:45:22 -0400 From: hplabs!gatech!mailrus!uunet!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick) Subject: Diacetyl Here is how I get a good amount of butterscotch flavor in ales: Boil all of your water, and try not to get too much oxygen in it when handling it. This will cause the yeast to be oxygen starved during its reproduction phase. the lag is longer, but I believe this causes it to produce a lot more Diacetyl. After 3-5 days in primary, add gelatin finings to strip out the yeast in suspension, and rack aftr a few days. Add finings again after a few more days. I use about 1/3 the recommended dose each time, and the last 1/3 when I bottle. Stripping out the yeast in suspension will stop it from reducing the diacetyl levelslater in the fermentation. Note:It will take longer to reach final gravity, because the yeast has taken a beating. Think of it as growing Bonsai Yeast ;-) Tis will give yo an ale similar to Samuel (? or john?) Smiths which is fermented in "yorksire stones" which are large slate boxes. Due to the temperature, and shape of the boxes, they have trouble getting the yeast to stay in suspension, causing a high diacetyl, or butterscotch flavor. A lot of people try for minimum diacetyl, because it can be a sign of contamination, but I've found an awful lot of people who like the "butterscotch" or "nutty" flavor it gives. I bet a lot of traditionally inn brewwed ales had wuite a lot of diacetyl in them back in previous centuries. Hence we are probably genetically screened to enjoy this;-) By the way, I used a aluminum pot for several years, and noticed no difference when I switched to a enamelled steel pot! Brewius Ergo Sum Bill Crick Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 May 90 06:48:38 EDT From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: stuck fermentations I recently had serious fermentation start up in some bottles and am wondering whether there was any way I could have persuaded it to happen in the carboy. The recipe was from Papazian's Sparrowhawk Porter with available ingredients---1 John Bull dark, 1 M&F Amber, 1# dry amber, 1# chocolate malt, 2.5 oz hops (boil+finish), 5 gallons water. There was no action for three days after pitching; this may have been poor yeast (I'm just now learning about rehydration) or may have been the irregular room heating---temperature in the carboy had fallen from 76F to 63F. I pitched another packet of yeast and brought in a space heater. In a day the temp was in the low 70's; I got vigorous fermentation for 2 days, then nothing. SG had dropped from 67 to 32; I was expecting (from the recipe) somewhat lower so I stirred up the yeast sediment (per suggestion of local homebrew shop). 10 days later there had been no action (bubbles, dropping SG) whatsoever, so I bottled with the canonical 3/4 cup of corn sugar. The beer was harsh but drinkable 2 weeks after bottling and mellowed a bit as it aged. I had a few bottles in the office for ~6 weeks, then noticed that all the caps had everted (my capper is the Italian model that makes a dimple in caps on longneck bottles). It took about 5 minutes of careful bleeding in a sink before I could take the cap off without a geyser. I chilled and opened a second bottle; after it had subsided and warmed up I got an SG of 1.023. I'm not too worried about the bottles I have left in the cellar, but but I'd really prefer to eat up all the fermentable sugars in the carboy (and be able to bring samples in for other homebrewers without worrying about explosions). Is there any way to test for remaining sugar, or to persuade the yeast to finish its job? - When I pitched the yeast I aerated the wort by sloshing the carboy around until there was a vortex in the middle, then reversing direction until the vortex reversed---is a paint stirrer or an aquarium bubbler necessary for the heavier batches? - Is it better to keep the fermenting temperature in the high 60's in hope the yeast will grow slower but sturdier? - Is it worthwhile to take off some (possibly unfinished) brew, boil to sterilize, and see whether it will activate new yeast (could spend a lot of yeast that way...)? - The office was probably 65-75F most of the time---yes, that's not the best keeping (or drinking) temperature, but I wouldn't expect it to jump-start yeast that had shut down at that temperature. - I don't \think/ a wild strain could have gotten in and eaten some of the sugars the packaged yeast gave up on; everything I worked with was thoroughly sanitized (1/4-1/2 cup bleach in 6 gallons water)---the bottles were cleaned \twice/ because I discovered while they were drying that my filler had vanished (it took a day to get a replacement, and I wasn't sure I could use bottles that had been sterilized the day before). Any ideas? Any suggestions? Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #416, 05/10/90 ************************************* -------
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