---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Saflager S-23 (Thomas Rohner)
  Spots to go in Vienna (Thomas Rohner)
  Fermenting ales with Nottingham yeast (John Scime)
  Re: 3068 Yeast ("Gavin Scarman")
  Dishwasher (Steve.Hill)
  PID controller tuning (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: No Krausen (Jeff Renner)
  RE: fruity lagers (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: 3068 Yeast (Bill Wible)
  Moving Brews or Pump Part ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Leaving DCL well enough alone ("Joseph Gerteis")
  Saflager $50 for 500 Gr. Bricks? (Donald and Melissa Hellen)
  New Cylindroconical Fermenter! (Charles)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* The HBD Logo Store is now open!
* http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:54:23 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Saflager S-23

Hi Folks
i'm with Marc Sedam here. Saflager s-23 makes very nice beers. I use
it as a backup, whenever there's a problem getting the yeast from
one of the local breweries. Lately i used it to brew 2 batches of
Oktoberfest, and a Doppelbock. They are wonderful.

Cheers Thomas


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:01:52 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Spots to go in Vienna

Hi Bill
i live at the Austrian border in Switzerland, so i'm closer to Munich
then to Vienna. But we have a similar Digest for german-speaking
homebrewers here, and i put your question there.
Here's what i got:

1516 brewing company
Schwarzenbergstr. 2/Krugstr. 18
1010 Wien

It's not much, but once you're there you may get directions to other
places from the "natives".

Hope it helps  Thomas


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:19:43 -0800 (PST)
From: John Scime <jascime at yahoo.com>
Subject: Fermenting ales with Nottingham yeast

Ian Watson has No Krausen on his ale after three days,
using Nottingham yeast.

Although it seems possible that your mash temperatures
were high and likely produced significant amounts of
unfermentables, you have conversion so you should be
able to ferment this down to about 1.020 or lower. 
One local MoBster accidentally mashed one of his first
batches at 168F and still ended up with a product that
fermented to 1.018 and was drinkable, so I doubt this
is the main problem. 

As it happens I recently fermented an 1.045 ale mashed
at 150 (60 min) and 155 (20 min).  I pitched
_rehydrated_ Nottingham at 73F, but let the beer cool
too much over night, down to about 61F before moving
it to 64F.  The result was a very slow start - very
little activity after 36 hrs.  To me, this suggests
that the cool temps knocked out the original 2 packs
pitched.  So I pitched another un-rehydrated pack and
to the beer at about 65F - it took off almost straight
away and has turned out quite clean (too clean,
perhaps).  

So if you're fermenting at low temps, try warming it
up.  Regardless of temp, try pitching another couple
packs of the Nottingham.

Lastly, it could simply be that you missed all the
fireworks - this has happened to me in the past, where
the beer reached high-krausen at night or while I was
at work, then appeared to be sluggish, but was
actually simply 'finished'.  I would take a reading -
if it is 1.025 or higher pitch more yeast.  GOOD LUCK!

John Scime
Member of Barleyment (the MoB) 
for Mississippi Mills
Almonte, Ontario, Canada  





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:57:27 +1030
From: "Gavin Scarman" <suba2 at bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: 3068 Yeast

From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
> I have to disagree that fermenting 3068 needs to be at the lower end
> as I believe it was originally said that higher temps produces
> unacceptable banana esters.

Good to get some more opinions on this yeast. Unacceptable is not the term I
would use, but unbalanced would be how I would describe it. For me, I get almost
no detectable cloves at higher ferment temps as the esters becomes very
dominant.

Bavarian weizen breweries ferment at 64F/18C and so far I have found this the
best temperature for me. However, I intend to split the batch next brew and
ferment seperately to try a direct comparison. It's been a while since I tried
fermenting at a higher temp and I've changed my mashing method and ingredients
quite a lot since.

One thing I'd like to ask, and I'm just trying to find a common point of
reference not be rude, how do your weizens compare to commercial Bavarian ones?

congrats on the Bucs btw :)



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:39:21 -0500
From: Steve.Hill at chase.com
Subject: Dishwasher

My wife and I need to purchase a new dishwasher and I have bottle
sanitation in the back of my mind when we are looking at them.

My wife are thinking about the New Maytag with the 3 levels -- the top two
for normal dishes and the bottom one is for only flat baking pans/ lids.

Has anyone purchased this model lately?  Is it noisy?  does it clean well?
Do bottles fit in well?  Is the bottom rack just a gimmick?

Feel Free to contact me at

stevehill at comcast.net.

Thanks

Steve Hill



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:57:49 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: PID controller tuning

Sometime  back someone posted a link to a really great treatise on how to 
tune a PID controller.  I thought I saved it away, but now cannot find 
it.   I tried the HBD archives, however, the 2002 archives appear to be 
offline.

Can someone please send me the link?

thanks,
dion

- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen  [1359.5,263.7] Rennerarian



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:15:36 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: No Krausen

  "Ian Watson" <realtor at niagara.com> wrote from St. Catharines, Ontario 
that he brewed his

> first full grain mash.  I
> did a protein rest at 122 or so.

Probably didn't need this, even with the flaked barley.
> Then, using a gas stove, I heated the mash
> up to the mid 150's, but it was hard to keep it stable.

A trick here - if your mash tun will fit in your oven (when I 
kitchen-brewed, I used an eight gallon blue enamel canning kettle), you 
can pre-heat the oven to 150 and put the kettle in there.  Keeps it 
real stable.
<snip>
> 2 packets of 11 grams hydrated Nottongham yeast.  I
> also shook the heck out of it to aerate the wort.  The next day, there 
> was
> little bubbling from the blow-off tube.  It increased to about one 
> bubble
> per second, but there was no wild krausening action.  Today (three days
> later) it is starting to clear at the top, already!.

That's plenty of yeast, so you should have had a good fermentation.  If 
you had an extended protein rest, you may have degraded the foam 
producing proteins, hence, no big kraeusen.

What we really need to know is specific gravities - both original (OG) 
and now.  Many fermentations take place when you aren't watching.  It 
might well have happened during the first night.  Even if you didn't 
take an OG reading, check it now.  If it is below, say, 1.020  it is 
probably finished.

Let us know.

Jeff
==============
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:58:49 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: fruity lagers

Marc Sedam writes:
> 
> Someone posted yesterday that people aren't happy with the 
> Saflager S-23 
> lager yeast.  Au contraire, mon fraire!  I love this yeast and have 
> fermented several different lagers with it. Not 100% clean, but that's 
> not what I'm 
> looking for either.

It occurred to me, if lagers are H*ll and ales are Heaven, would that make
Koelschs Purgatory? (Yes, I'm trolling for McKays). ;-)

Anyway, this raises an interesting issue. I suppose technically lagers and
ales are defined by their processes, and not by their final character.
Still, there must be a point at which the ester component becomes
unacceptable for a lager. Is that point really well defined in the judging
world?

I ask because of a comment in the Aussie digest relating to S-23. One fellow
made up a lager with S-23, found it noticeably fruity, entered it into a
competition anyway, and took first in a lager class. Curiously, he also
entered it in the Pale Ale class, and took 4th. Now, maybe this one could be
chalked up to questionable judging. Still, how do the majority of judges
react to the presence of esters in lagers? 

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:30:20 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: 3068 Yeast


I also really like 3068.

My understanding and experience has been that at lower
temps, it produces more clove and less banana.  At higher
temps, it produces more banana and less clove.

'Unacceptable' is subjective.  It depends on what you
like.  Personally, I like more banana and less clove.
And I think commercial weizens we get here generally
have more banana and less clove.

I have fermented at least one 3068 weizen in summer, and
yes, way hotter than the 64 degrees you mentioned.  I didn't
think it had too much banana, but again, I like the banana.

Weizen is generally regarded as one of the beers you can
make during the hot summer months without too much problems,
along with alot of the Belgian beers, since many Belgian
yeasts also do pretty well at higher temps.

Bill



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:05:21 -0500
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Moving Brews or Pump Part

Does anybody know of what became of Bill Stewart  at  Moving Brews? The web
site stopped taking orders Dec 01, I haven't got any response from email or
voicemail (Box was full).

You see....I broke my pump. or at least its my fault the SO broke my
pump...She hit the brewery with her car when it was -3F and the threads
snapped off from the pump housing, probably from the torque from the rest
of the plumbing being smacked up against the brew fridge... eek. anyhoo I
need a new plastic pump head for my March 6144 High Temp pump. the motor,
impeller and whatnot are fine, I just need a new Input/output housing. The
brass ones do fit. Anyone out there fry a motor and want to sell me the
other Piece?

Where else would I order the part?

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:40:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Joseph Gerteis" <joseph540 at elvis.com>
Subject: Leaving DCL well enough alone

Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:18:28 -0500

Marc Sedam says:

>Someone posted yesterday that people aren't happy with
>the Saflager S-23 lager yeast.  Au contraire, mon
>fraire!  I love this yeast and have fermented several
>different lagers with it, most recently 5 gallons of 
>dunkles and 10 gallons of CAP.

OK!  I take it back, and I will quit bugging DCL.  I
see also that several months ago, when I must not have
been paying attention, someone else (Dave Houseman, I
think) also reported using S-23 for a wide variety,
including CAPs.  Though I have not yet tried the S-189,
I think I would prefer that variety.  Maybe I will try
to make a bulk order.

Regarding the other part of Marc's comments:
>It can give some slight fruity esters if you ferment
it >over 50F, but I generally ferment that strain at
46F >and come up with very tasty beers.  Not 100%
clean, but >that's not what I'm looking for either. 
Goes well with >noble hopped lagers.

It wasn't only the frutiness I was thinking of.  I saw
a side-by-side reveiw of S-23 and S-189, which I can't
find now.  My recollection is it was done by some
Members of Barleyment crew.  The review suggested that
S-23 was much more sluggish at lower temps than S-189,
and the review much preferred S-189 flavor
characteristics.  Anyone know where this review is?

My sense, after reading that review, was that DCL chose
to release S-23 for homebrew use mainly because it
could handle *higher* temps (and the abuses of novice
brewers) rather than for its preferred flavor
characteristics. But I am glad that S-23 is finding
favor and I'll give it another go.

- -------------------------------------------------
Get your free  at Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com!
http://www.elvis.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:31:35 -0500
From: Donald and Melissa Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net>
Subject: Saflager $50 for 500 Gr. Bricks?

Brian Lundeen wrote:

IMO S-189 is a good all-purpose lager yeast . . .

I can source 500 g bricks for about $50 US including
shipping. I split that up into 10 50g packs using my vacuum
sealer. 

- ---------------------------------

Where can I get these for about $50 US?

Don



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:31:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles at thestewarts.com
Subject: New Cylindroconical Fermenter!

I'm so happy!

I just got my cylindroconical hopper (TMS16914) from Toledo Metal Spinning, and
I am very pleased with it.  They were great to work with, and will soon be
setting up web-based ordering (this week?).  Thanks to info gleaned from the
HBD, I'd already ordered the greenlee punch, and it made short work of the hole
for the dump valve.  I've already installed the dump valve (Home Depot $5.98)
using a rubber o-ring.  I know it's brass and I really should use stainless, but
it's a temporary thing to keep the cost down.

This weekend, I'd like to fabricate a lid.  I want something I can see into, so
I'll probably pick up some plexiglass from Lowes and cut it.  Anyone have any
suggestions how to cut a 17.25" circle?  Should I use a router?  Jigsaw?  Also,
how have others sealed their lids?  Slit aquarium tubing?  I was considering
applying a really thick bead of silicone sealant around the rim, and letting it
dry.  Think it would work?  Think large binder clips would exert enough force
for a good seal?

I'd also like to install a racking port.  Any advice?  How far up should I put
it?  What about construction details?  I should use nylon washers so it can
turn, right?

Also, I need to build a stand for it, too.  I would like for it to be tall
enough to slip a 5 gal. keg under.  But would also like the legs to be sectional
so I can take off the extensions and put the fermenter into the fridge for
lagering (I have about 1" of clearance).  Has anyone worked out such a setup? 
Any pics out there?  I've combed the web and am not finding much.

I'd appreciate any help, advice, tips, etc.  I'll post pictures on my web site
when all is done.

Finally, in response to the recent thread on 3 gal. kegs, I still have some 3
gal. kegs on my web site, and will still donate $2 to the server fund for every
one sold to a HBD'er (Yes, I AM affilated).

Thanks,

Chip Stewart
Gaithersburg, MD
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com/brewing

Support anti-Spam legislation.
Join the fight http://www.cauce.org

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Support anti-Spam legislation.
Join the fight http://www.cauce.org/


Return to table of contents

---