---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: PID controller tuning ("Wayne Holder")
  Yeast Starter Dilema ("Chris M")
  Re: Moving Brews or Pump Part (Kent Fletcher)
  Brewing Techniques (Brew)
  DCL, the MoB and the number 42 (Alan McKay)
  Chest Freezer / Conical ("Christian Rausch")
  Re: Brew time/grist bill adjustments/glucoamylase ("Steve Alexander")
  Best Vacuum Sealers and Digital Scales ("Romanowsky, Paul")
  manifolds and pumps ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: Water Heater Element Mounting ("Peter Beauregard")
  oxidatioin - no way .... ("Steve Alexander")
  Dishwasher ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Re: Dishwasher (Pete Limosani)
  Re: Dishwasher ("Mike Sharp")
  Are we men or mice(s) (JOKE) (Wil)
  Re: Moving Brews or Pump Part (David Towson)
  Relax and Have a Homebrew ("Dave Larsen")
  Re: Bay area clubs (Jeff Renner)
  RE: Beer dispensing ("Doug Hurst")
  3068 Yeast ("Jonathan Royce")


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Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:06:46 -0800
From: "Wayne Holder" <zymie at charter.net>
Subject: re: PID controller tuning

Dion asks:

"Sometime  back someone posted a link to a really great treatise on how to
tune a PID controller.  I thought I saved it away, but now cannot find
it.   I tried the HBD archives, however, the 2002 archives appear to be
offline.

Can someone please send me the link?"

I know that Nate Wahl, the author of that document, moved his website
recently. I can't find his new URL, but I do have the document.

I can convert it to a .pdf so that it doesn't "limit the audience". Maybe
I'll even use the MS Word spell-checker on it first ;^).


Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach, CA
http://www.zymico.com

 - --

"All paid for by our good customers"

- --Lynne O'Connor








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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:24:58 +1100
From: "Chris M" <chrismac_aus at hotmail.com>
Subject: Yeast Starter Dilema

Hi, would appreciate some feedback on following.

Have recently moved to liquid yeasts and the LHBS recommends sterilising a 
2L coke bottle and adding DME and luke warm water to liquid yeast to create 
a large starter, after a day or 2 the air lock bubbles and i transfer to 
sterile stubbies put in fridge.

I was going away for a week last saturday and thought i would use one of the 
yeast stubbies for a beer i was planning to start on the day i was leaving, 
i filled a 1.25L coke bottle, added some wort and tablespoon of caster sugar 
( was in a hurry and had no DME ).

The yeast is Whitelabs Irish Ale and the wort is 15L of fresh Amber Ale made 
by ESB HBS in Sydney.

I ran out of time and asked my partner if she would make up the brew for me, 
anyway, she was unable to make beer for me and i have returned home 5 days 
later and the yeast starter is still sitting on the kitchen window sill 
where i left it ( avg daily temp has been 25C inside ).

Q - Is it safe to pitch the yeast after 5 days, there is no bubbling and i 
have swirled yeast around today but am unsure about using. The colour of the 
liquid is amber.

I usually make extract beers but have purchased 15L of fresh wort from LHBS 
to give me an idea of mash beers, thinking of moving to grains.

Should i make a fresh stater.

Thanks.

Chris MacFarlane.
Sydney.



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Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:00:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Moving Brews or Pump Part

Phil Wilcox said:

"(snip)..I broke my pump. (snip)I
need a new plastic pump head for my March 6144 High
Temp pump. the motor, impeller and whatnot are fine, I
just need a new Input/output housing. 
(snip)
Where else would I order the part?"

Phil,

You didn't say where you are located.
You could try March direct at
Phone (847) 729-5300
or look up a local distributor at
http://www.MARCHPUMP.COM

McMaster-Carr also sells them, don't know if they do
parts, but prior experience tells me they might.

Kent Fletcher



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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:22:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Brew <kristbigfoot at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brewing Techniques

Over the years I've written about my feelings that I'd
been ripped off by Stephen Mallery of "Brewing
Techniques".

I'd paid for several issues during their
going-out-of-business sale. However, since 1999 I had
not received the magazines.

I recently became aware of an email address for
Stephen Mallery (brewtech at earthlink.net). I emailed
Stephen and asked why I never received the magazines.
Stephen was willing to fix the problem. Apparently
there was a mix up with the firm handling the orders.

Bottom line -- today, Thursday January 30, 2003, I
received 10 "Brewing Techniques" magazines in the
mail.

If anyone has an outstanding "Brewing Techniques"
order, please contact Stephen Mallery for resolution.

Also, to complete my collection, I need the following
"Brewing Techniques".
Please email me with condition and price. Thanks.

I need: 1993 Vol 1 Numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6; 1994
Vol 2 Numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4; 1995 Vol 3 Number 1.

- -- Kraig




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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:56:14 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: DCL, the MoB and the number 42

Joseph "Elvis Lives" Gerteis is looking for an S-23 / S-189
review.  The Members of Barleyment website can be found at
http://barleyment.neap.net/ but I do not think this is where
you would have seen it.  Perhaps on Strangebrew Drews site
http://www.strangebrew.ca/

I've done quite a few beers with S-189 and W-34/70 and 
absolutely love them both!  Very clean yeasts and both 
seem to be able to easily handle regular (low) lager
temps.  I've successfully fermented them under
the lowest temp recommended by DCL.  Used S-189 in a
cyser as well and WOW I love that cyser!

S-23 I've unfortunately only used once and it was not
lagered as low as the others (not because of the yeast, but
because of lack of space in the lagering fridge so it went
at cellar temp 50F), and I sort of messed up that batch 
in other ways so I cannot really comment.  

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:19:28 -0500
From: "Christian Rausch" <christian at rauschbiercompany.com>
Subject: Chest Freezer / Conical

With great disappointment I opened my Keg fridge yesterday and noticed
something wrong. It was 65 degrees! The light switch was broken and the
light was on the whole time. At first I thought maybe this is why it was so
warm. Wrong, the fridge is toast. So now I need to do something fast. I am
in the middle of lagering a Helles, Bock, Pilsner and Wheat Beer.

Does anyone know of a model freezer that can be drilled to allow tap lines
to exit it. I have seen some with modified tops that incorporate the taps in
the front of the freezer. But I need the tap lines to exit through the top
then through the wall that leads to my bar.

Any ideas or suggestions would be great. Thanks.

Oh yeah I finished my conical and the total cost was 278.00. I am happy with
this.

Christian Rausch
http://rauschbiercompany.com





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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:39:13 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Brew time/grist bill adjustments/glucoamylase

Marc Sedam says ....


> 5 minutes-- Calculate recipe...I use ProMash and/or StrangeBrew

Aw c'mon - it takes windows 5 minutes to boot Windoze.  I'm talking about
deciding on the recipe and grist bill the hops you'll use.  That requires
thought and Promash is no help there.

> So, that's just over four hours.  In the original post I did mention this
was
> possible assuming the water and grains were dealt with the night before.

By that measure it's possible to 'brew' in 15 minutes if you do all the work
the day before and after.  My point is that real brewing includes all the
phases beginning with brew design and ending with aerated and pitched wort
in fermenters.  When you add that up 6 hours isn't abnormal.

I see a number of holes in your list Marc; no time to measure hops, no time
to sanitize fermenters a few other items missing.  You select minmal figures
for mash(30miin before the MO boost), for boil (70 min) and assume  that
your water requires no salt addition or hardness reduction.  I can't believe
you brew a BoPils and a Burton ale from the same water.

> Like
> most people, I'm very time-constrained.  Spending four or five hours doing
> anything is a luxury so I jam as much in to that time as possible.

I understand that and I think you're cutting some corners in a very
judicious way, but it's minimalist brewing in 4+ hours PLUS some previous
day work in the best case.  I think realistically your above 5hrs total at a
dead-run.

 -S




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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:04:54 -0500
From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com>
Subject: Best Vacuum Sealers and Digital Scales

I've seen a few posts with brewers mentioning they have a vacuum sealer.
I'm interested in purchasing one.  I'm hoping I could save a little time on
the investigative side and get opinions from brewers out there who already
bought one.  What are the best brands and models I should look at?  Any
special features or options that should be considered?

Where do you buy your bags for vacuum sealing?

I'm also interested in getting a digital scale so I have the same questions
about that too.

Your help and advise would be appreciated.  Thanks

Paul R


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:24:56 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: manifolds and pumps

Dave Riedel says ...,

>How do these pump
>systems work for a manifold-style mash tun?

Like a champ.  Generally manifolds will offer a little less yield and
modestly greater chance for channeling than a plate.  See John Palmer's
excellent analysis.  Even John admits the deficits are minor with a well
made manifold.  In my experience the benefits of manifolds are they are
considerably less prone to sticking and develop a better flow rate.  Also
there is no underlet loss, no grist trapped under a plate and if you attach
the manifold to an 'up tube' you can add or remove the manifold at will.

The manifold on an 'up-tube' with pump has been dubbed a
DIMS(drop-in-manifold system) by a friend.   My friend uses a DIMS in a
55gal stainless barrel mash tun !  He can heat and stirr with a motorized
stirrer to accomplish mash steps, then he insert the manifold after mash-out
temp is reached.  He can also decoct by inserting the manifold and pulling
most of the liquid off before thick grist decoction..

I use my DIMS manifold (after sanitizing) to pull wort from the boiler thru
the CFC and leave whole hops behind. Dual use in the mash-tun and boiler.

I describe DIMS and compare this to other systems an upcoming Zymurgy
article.  There is no reason that a manifold can't be used with HERMS or
RIMS - it's an independent feature to the system designations (RIMS, HERMS,
DIMS, CHERMS, ...)  - which are distinguished by the heating method.

 -S





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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:31:14 -0500
From: "Peter Beauregard" <peterb at autoprof.com>
Subject: Re: Water Heater Element Mounting

More beer www.morebeer.com (NAJASC) is having some 1" stainless 
merchant couplings (equals NSPT) made for those of us that need 
to mount water heater elements to our vessels.  These couplings 
are 1" straight pipe thread, the same as an electric heater 
element.

Cheers!

Peter Beauregard
Stratham, NH



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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:52:58 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: oxidatioin - no way ....

John Misrahi notes,

> I have been trying to improve the technical side of my
> brewing from batch to batch, and one of the things that keeps
> coming to haunt me is oxidation. No matter what I do, almost
> all my beers seem to end up developing an oxidized quality
> (kind of a stale wet cardboard taste).

Can't possibly happen.

I've been scolded at least 100 times on this forum by folks who
pour their hot wort blithely through the air that their beers are
perfect.  I don't believe it myself.

That doesn't match my experience, but I tend to keep beers around in keg for
long periods of time.  I've been adding small amount of potassium & sodium
metabisulfite to the mash, but you should calculate the amount so you hit
around 20ppm of SO2 in finished wort.  This and even higher doses work well
in ales.  For lagers you need to be concerned with the sulfate products
giving the beer a slightly Burtonesque palate at higher doses.  This method
was recommended by Peindl and others at VLB in Berlin.  Yeast produce a few
ppm of sulfite too btw.   Liquid SO2 is a better means of adding the
antioxidant, but it's difficult to handle - not recommended for the amateur.

The cardboard flavor is specifically due to an aldehyde breakdown products
the most common fatty acid(FA) in grist and hops - linoleic.  Once the FA is
oxidized the breakdown is inevitable but slow in coming.   Where exactly the
oxidation takes place is a matter of debate, but it's likely that
lipooxidase enzymes from the grist enhance FA oxidation during the low temp
mash rests.

Don't overextract the grist - late runnings have much more fatty acids than
early runnings.
Be sure to remove as much break as possible either at the boiler or else
rack the beer 24 hrs after pitching.

Unrelated to cardboard flavor but getting the yeast out before autolysis
prevents certain stale flavors.

I agree with the guys who suggest controlling bottling oxygen.  Oxygen in
the bottle will badly damage beer flavor, but repeated isotope trace studies
show that oxygen in the bottle headspace doesn't contribute directly to
oxidized fatty acids nor to cardboard-nonenals.   Headspace oxygen oxidizes
the antioxidants in beer (the good phenols and any residual sulfite), and
after this happens the protection from serious oxidation flavor damage is
lost.  The already-oxidized fatty acids may break down faster due to
headspace oxygen, but the oxidized-FA precursor was probably present at the
beginning of the boil.

 -S




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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:04:52 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude02 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Dishwasher

Steve Hill asks about the new Maytag 3-level (tall tub) dishwasher.

It's interesting that you bring that up, Steve, 'cos we just got the model 
that's one step down from that one.  It has the 2-tier system instead of 
the 3, but other wise it's the same (except that it was about $100 less and 
has less nifty gadgets like the funky flatware holder).  Here are the 
things that I specifically noted over the past month.

First, the bad stuff:  Because the tub is taller (actually it utilizes more 
space-- it's really not taller), it's a bit further down to the lower 
rack.  This is not a big deal, but it was a little disconcerting that I had 
to bend down an extra 3 inches or so while unloading the bottom 
rack.  Also, it doesn't seem to wash as well as the old Kenmore we 
had.  Heavily soiled items would put soil into the wash water that is 
recirculated, and although it does manage to spray that up into cups and so 
forth, it doesn't get it out.  I reject about 4 glasses or cups per load, 
and because the soil is baked on during the drying process, I need to soak 
them to get them clean.  The system of having a seperate spray arm for each 
tier is a great idea, but I think that it limits the reach of the water-- 
same power pump, but it now has 3 (or 4 on the one you're looking at, 
right?) whirligigs to push, and the head loss because of the nifty routing 
of water is probably significant, too.  Finally, the wash and dry cycle 
takes more than 3 hours!  I am not exaggerating.  The worst part about that 
is the electronic panel only shows when it is washing and when it is 
drying-- the old dishwasher had a cam-timer (the dial on the front) that 
showed you exactly where in the cycle it was.

Now the good stuff:  It's really quiet.  No dishwasher is as quiet as I'd 
like, but this one is much quieter than other ones I've had.  The fact that 
there's no center post in the rack means that you can fit a good bit more 
stuff in, and more oddly shaped items.  I like the detergent cup a good bit 
better on this one than others, and the rinse aid dispenser gives you a 
very good idea as to how much is still in the reservoir.  The way the top 
rack is slanted means you can fit some really big things in the lower rack, 
too.  Lastly, the NSF certification it carries means that the when you hit 
the "sanitize" button, the system will heat the water to 180 F for the 
final rinse-- this means very easy bottle sanitation!

Hope this was helpful, Steve.

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.




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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:28:05 -0500
From: Pete Limosani <plimosani at rcn.com>
Subject: Re: Dishwasher

In #4159, Steve Hill inquired about dishwashers for sanitizing bottles.

Don't know about the model you are looking at, Steve, but I can give you some
general comments. I bought a new dishwasher last year that has good
features for sanitizing bottles.

High Temp Scrub & Sanitizing Rinse.
Buttons on the front panel give one the option to turn these features on. When
these options are on during the wash and rinse cycles the heating element in
the d/w heats the water to a temperature quite a bit higher the ~125* of the
average domestic water heater. I cannot remember what temperature it gets up
to. But you get the idea--heat kills. I do not use quick dry/air dry. That way
when the rinse cycle is over the heating element remains on and the heat stays
high for a period of time longer. When the cycle is done the bottles are very
hot to the touch. I need to leave the door open for a few minutes to allow
them to cool.

If I were to buy a new dishwasher, I would definitely look for these two
features again.

Rinse Aid.
My dishwasher has this feature. Don't know if you are familiar with it, but
you buy this stuff called Jet Dry and inject it into a reservoir in the door.
It helps keep soap residue off of glasses. I've read a number of references
that claim that this stuff kills head on beer--theory being that the stuff
kills foam and if left in the bottle... There is no way to turn the use of it
off selectively, so it gets released when I wash bottles, but I have not
had any problems with head retention. Maybe the High Temp Scrub releases
the film it might otherwise leave.

3 Racks vs. 2 Racks.
If you only use 12oz or 16 oz bottles, you might be ok. My dishwasher has 2
racks. The 24 oz bottles that I like to use don't fit in the top rack and 
when in
the bottom rack they interfere with the wash arm under the top rack. I might
try taking a couple bottles to the showroom and see for yourself how they fit.

/Pete/


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:12:56 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dishwasher

Steve asked about the Maytag Dishwasher

Funny you should ask.  I just bought one, though the one I have doesn't have
the bottom rack, it's otherwise the same model.  Very quiet, and very
effective cleaning.  It was so quiet that when we got it, we joked about it.
Me:  How about those Buc?  SWIMBO: I'm sorry you'll have to speak louder.
The dishwasher is so quiet I can't hear you.

It is amazingly tall inside (I measured lots of dishwashers when I was
shopping), and I sorta felt the lower rack was a gimmick.  After all, you
can stand up virtually any tray on it's edge in there, and they clear the
wash arm just fine.  Amazing, really, how tall the tub is.  The third tray
takes some of that height away, so washing your kettle/crockpot or whatever
becomes questionable.  I didn't think that flat things, which can stand on
their edge, and take up little room, needed their own tray.

We like it a lot. My wife washes my bottles in it, and it does a good job of
cleaning, but even though it claims NSF cert for sanitizing, I'm not
altogether sure I'd depend on that alone. Stuff comes out darn clean though.

I'm curious about the bottle rack you mentioned.  Didn't see that offered.
Can you describe it a bit more?

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:39:59 GMT
From: Wil at thebeermanstore.com
Subject: Are we men or mice(s) (JOKE)

Warning, Humor ahead!!

>You see....I broke my pump. or at least its my fault the SO broke my
>pump...She hit the brewery with her car

What is all this talk of "Beer Bullets and SWMBO"?
And NOW a brewers is taking the blame for his wife running her car
into his brewery!
My GOD men, Get off your knees. Stand up for yourself. 
Are you brewers or the brew house mouse? Who wears the paints around
this brewery anyway?
(Disclaimer, I and not married and have been divorced 2 times;-)

>most recently 5 gallons of dunkles and 10 gallons of CAP.

And when did cascade become cascadeS or centennial  become centennialS
and now we have people making dunkleS and people asking for reviews on
friggin' Dish washers......
Where did we go wrong........

Stepping down from beer box AND removing tongue from cheek.

Wil Kolb
The Beer Man
Plaza at East Cooper
607 B Johnnie Dodds Blvd
Mt. Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084

www.thebeermanstore.com
Wil at thebeermanstore.com

God bless America!


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:38:47 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Moving Brews or Pump Part

In HBD 4159, Philip Wilcox asks: "...I need a new plastic pump head for my 
March 6144 High Temp pump. ...Where else would I order the part?"

March Pump Company, perhaps?
www.marchpump.com

Dave in Bel Air, MD 



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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:36:10 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Relax and Have a Homebrew

Relax and have a homebrew.

I'm brewing two batches at the same time for a big party -- a beautiful 
amber and an oatmeal cream stout.

In preparation, I upgrade my keg system to hold two kegs -- something I've 
been wanting to do for a while.  I hook up one keg, full of the amber to 
force carbonate.  The stout is still cold conditioning in a carboy in a 
small refrigerator.

Several days later it is time to clean the other keg to put the stout into 
it.  Now, I just purchased this keg -- a used one from the homebrew shop.  
So I put water into it, put some air into it, and shake it up real good.

When I open it up, it reeks of hops and is all foamy, brown and reeks of 
hops.   I am disgusted.  They say they clean these things before they sell 
them.   I do it again.    Same thing again.   What the hell!   In fact every 
time I do it, it never gets any better.

I spray it all out and look inside.  Hmmm.  It looks pretty clean.   I don't 
get it.  The only thing I can think of is the dip tube must be jammed full 
of gunk that is coming loose when I shake it up.  So I try to take off the 
nozzle holding the dip tube on, to try and clean it.  It won't budge.   I 
try everything from wrenches to vice grips.   It simply won't come off.  
Man, I may as well return the thing, if it is that dirty and I cant even 
clean the dip tube.

The next day, I go back to the homebrew shop with the keg and tell them my 
plight.  To demonstrate, I fill the keg up with water, put pressure on it, 
shake it up, open it up and it is totally clean.  WHAT THE HELL!

I exchange the keg anyway, take it home, put some water in it, put pressure 
on it, shake it up.  CRAP!  The new one is full of brown foamy water the 
reeks of hops again.

That is when it dawns on me.  IT IS SUCKING BEER OUT OF MY OTHER KEG THROUGH 
THE AIR HOSE WHEN I PRESSURIZE IT!   The low pressure of the new empty keg 
was sucking my beautiful, high-pressure amber out of my other keg and 
through the red high-pressure hose, because I had connected up to the out 
port rather than the in port.  CRAP.

So I take all my new air hoses apart clean them all out and put them back 
together, clean everything, rack my stout into the new keg and everything is 
well and good.

That night as I lay in bed, my mind wanders.  I begin to wonder exactly how 
much of the amber I lost in all the times I hooked up empty kegs to the 
other side of the line.   I wonder.  Hmmmmmm.   Should I look or leave well 
enough alone?   Hmmmmm.

The next morning, before work, I make up my mind.   I'm going to open up the 
amber's keg and look.  I do so and, holy cow, it is down about 6 inches or 
more.  CRAP.   Oh well, there it nothing I can do about it now.

I go to put the lid back on and -- wait, where is the seal to the lid?  The 
o-ring is totally gone.  I look everywhere.  It is gone, gone, gone!  Oh my 
Gawd!  It fell into the amber.  IT FREAKING FELL INTO THE KEG.

I look at the clock.   I am about fifteen minutes late leaving for work.  
What do I do?!!!

Quickly, I fill a bucket full of sanitizer, grab a long spoon, sanitize it, 
and start fishing around in the keg.  Feel something in the bottom, but I 
can't grab it.  CRAP!

I grab the carboy that I siphoned the stout out of the night before, 
sanitize my racking cane, start a siphon.   I look over at the clock.  I AM 
REALLY LATE TO WORK!  It is then I realize, CRAP, I DIDN'T SANITIZE THE 
CARBOY!!!   I stop the siphon.  Look at the carboy and there is about an 
inch of beer in it.  I run it to the sink dump it out, rinse out the carboy 
and sanitize it, and start the siphon again.

Finally, I siphon it down far enough to peer through the top of the keg and 
see the o-ring.   I fish it out using the spoon, siphon the beer back into 
the keg.   My nice clean white-collar-job work clothes are covered in 
sanitizer and beer.

At this point I am not even in a hurry anymore because I am so late for work 
that I don't even care.  I guess I need to start thinking of excuses.  
Somehow I don't think the beer story is going to cut it.

Really, it's time to relax and have a homebrew.

***

This really wasn't a major disaster or anything.  In the end, all I did was 
loose a gallon of beer and was late to work.  I'm not really looking for any 
advice from anyone.  It is just something that happened this morning and I 
felt like telling the story.  I'm sure people have much worse stories than 
this one.  Anybody want to tell them?   Anybody learn any lessons the hard 
way?

 - Dave



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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:01:07 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Bay area clubs

Brewers

Thanks to the fifteen or more brewers who responded to my request for 
information about  SF area clubs.  Wow, what a resource.  I've 
forwarded the information to my nephew in Berkeley.

Jeff

=============
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943



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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:35:06 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Beer dispensing

Bob asked about tubing sources.

I use 6' of 3/16" ID tubing from keg to tap and run my kegs at about 18
psi at ~45F.  You can get various sizes of food grade tubing from 
http://www.morebeer.com 
They helped me find the right tubing for my system, then when I thought
the tubing was causing an off-flavor, replaced it for free.  They
subsequently discovered, because of my inquiry, that the batch of tubing
mine was cut from was the wrong type.  Their supplier had changed tubing
without notifying them.  

Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:39:23 -0500
From: "Jonathan Royce" <jtroyce at earthlink.net>
Subject: 3068 Yeast

Bill Wible said:

"My understanding and experience has been that at lower
temps, it produces more clove and less banana.  At higher
temps, it produces more banana and less clove."

I don't know if the same will hold true with 3068, but last April, I
made a Bavarian Hefe using 3333. The fermentation ran over a
week of unseasonably warm April weather, and I suspect it was
around 72-74F. After bottling and carbonation, the beer had a
*LOT* of banana flavor. So much so, that I didn't really like it
(although my wife did). Later in the summer (probably around
August or so), I took a sip of a beer she was drinking. I didn't
even recognize it--the flavor had changed so much. It was GREAT!
The banana character had mellowed considerably and the clove
taste had started to shine through.

Just thought I'd throw that into the mix.

Happy brewing,
Jon
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com




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