HOMEBREW Digest #4170 Thu 13 February 2003

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  RE: Re: Equipment does matter ("Dave") (Beer Drinker)
  Re: PVC in a rectangular cooler (Mark Kempisty)
  Boston Homebrew Competition reminder ("John B. Doherty")
  parti-gyle technique (Rama Roberts)
  Re: Beer competitions ("Asher Reed")
  Bigs Dogs and Pony Ass Brewing (Wil)
  Best of Philly 2003 ("Joe Uknalis")
  re: response to competiton ethics ("Chris M")
  Re: PVC in a rectangular cooler (Kent Fletcher)
  energy sources?? (aa8jzdial)
  Smoked wheat beers? ("kent tegels")
  Aroma hopping ("Rudolf Krondorfer")
  Competition Rules (Hayes Antony)
  Re: First few all grain batches (Thomas Rohner)
  Basic kegging questions (Brian Trotter)
  RE: BU:GU  " Designing Great Beers ("Dan Gross")
  "Stock" Comps... (Bev Blackwood II)
  Yeast Behavior (darrell.leavitt)
  Whining (Randy Ricchi)
  Wow! (Paul Kensler)
  Re: two things/or three (Jeff Renner)
  RE: First few all grain batches ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Diacetyl Rest and repitching on a Lager Yeast Cake (Jeff Renner)
  Michael Hartsock high FG, Shoes bitterness to gravity? WY3787 and ("Czerpak, Pete")
  1812 Era Ale Recipe (Bob Hall)
  MCAB-V ("Houseman, David L")
  Bottle carbonation monitoring trick (Jeff Renner)
  Re:  BU:GU (MOREY Dan)
  Re: equipment (Jeff Renner)
  evolutionary niches ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Skotrats Thought for the Day ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  Re: Diacetyl Rest and repitching on a Lager Yeast Cake (Gunnar Emilsson)
  Separate lauter tun vs. combi-tun (George de Piro)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:42:02 -0800 (PST) From: Beer Drinker <srm775 at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Re: Equipment does matter ("Dave") Dave, I don't believe that you neither disproved nor disqualified Bill Wibbles comments, but rather reinforced his assertions with your own flawed arguments. For example: "Also, most properties of the better equipment that brewers use don't have an effect on the quality of the beer, but, rather, on the ease of making the beer." That statement is almost entirely false. While yes, better, bigger equipment does ease the brewing process, it also produces better beer. If I were to strain my wort through a colander (which is what I, and most beginners, used to do), as opposed to a mash tun with an EZ-masher or False Bottom, then obviously the colander method wouldn't have as high extraction rates, nor would it produce as clear of a wort as the mash tun . In addition, you're also mixing in air and other potential contaminates. Also, let's take the chef example. I you give one chef a creme brulee dish and all the modern convinences, including a chef's torch, and the other chef a dirty soup bowl, some matches and a can of hairspray, which dessert are you going to eat, Creme brulee or Creme bru-AquaNet? As we all know, cooking and brewing isn't just about taste, but also about presentation. Finally, I think you're giving the yeast too much credit. While I believe the yeast is the most important ingrediant, it only eats what we provide it. And, I believe that "90% of bad beers" are bad for other reasons than the yeast. Afterall, if you "have to turn over control to the yeast to do much of the work," and it is only "biological organism to compound all of the mistakes made during the brew session," then everyone would just be buying great yeast and brewing with table sugar and there would be no discussion of all-grain brews. As far as the experience goes, I don't think that it's unreasonable to want different tiers of experience for competitions. Afterall, you don't see a 300 lbs boxer fighting a feather weight. Why should you have a brewer with 30 years of experience competing with a brewer with 3 months of experience. happy brewing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:46:06 -0500 From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com> Subject: Re: PVC in a rectangular cooler Timothy asks about using PVC in his mash tun... White PVC while suitable for drinking water has a maximum temperature rating around 125 F. I remember reading that some brewer took a small PVC part and hot water from his cafeteria's coffee machine. The part softened very quickly and stunk! You need to use CPVC which is a light beige in color. Its good to around 170 or 180 F. If you go to http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mkempisty/ and the Cooler Conversion link at the top, you will see the CPVC bulkhead fitting and the copper manifold I made for a 5 gallon Gott. For gluing the parts together I used clear CPVC cleaner and solvents. I didn't want to have any of the dyes left around. I have also changed the tubing coupler to a hose barb. The coupler was just not secure enough. I just use a vinyl tube to go from the mash tun to the kettle. Hope this helps! - -- Take care, Mark P.S. Normally the URL is www.kempisty.net but its not forwarding for some reason I'll have to look into later. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:17:00 -0800 (PST) From: "John B. Doherty" <dohertybrewing at yahoo.com> Subject: Boston Homebrew Competition reminder Dear Fellow Beer Enthusiasts, Just a reminder to you all - The Boston Wort Processors 9th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition is fast approaching! BHC9 is one of the first MCAB VI qualifying events of the year, and is also a 2002 New England Homebrewer of the Year event! Friday February 21st is the entry deadline - That's only ten days for you to ship your entries to our ship-to site: Modern Homebrew Emporium c/o BHC9 Receiving 2304 Mass. Ave Cambridge, MA 02140 617-498-0400 If you are local to New England, we have ~18 additional entry drop-off sites in five of the six New England states (sorry, Maine) and one in New York state which are listed on our website at http://www.wort.org/bhc.html The competition will be held on Saturday March 8th at the Watch City Brewing Company in Waltham, MA, just west of Boston. All BJCP Styles will be judged, including Cider and Mead. Best of Show and Brewmaster's Choice Awards will be chosen from among the 24 beer category winners. The lucky entrant who wins the Brewmaster's Choice will get to assist in brewing a brewpub sized batch of their beer at Watch City!!! If you are interested in judging or stewarding at our event, please Email our BHC9 Judge Coordinator, Francois Espourteille, at francois53 at attbi.com Please email me at dohertybrewing at yahoo.com with any questions you might have. Spread the word and we look forward to judging your entries!! Cheers and Happy Brewing! John B. Doherty Head Organizer for the 2003 Boston Homebrew Competition (BHC9) dohertybrewing at yahoo.com 978-670-6987 (w) 508-923-6376 (h) Surf to http://www.wort.org/bhc.html for all competition details!! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 13:02:16 -0800 (PST) From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com> Subject: parti-gyle technique gregman wrote: OK On Saturday I did the whole parti-gyle thing an it went good real good, in fact I got the first beer at 4 gallons to be 1.084 and the second beer at 8 gallons 1.027. with 14 lbs of grain!!!!!!!! The technique is intriguing, but something about the whole "second runnings" thing scares me, and suggests the small beer it produces will be substandard. I've only had one small beer, Anchor Steam's, which I think is the second runnings from their barleywine? It was horrible, IMO. Anyone have something positive to say about parti-gyle? I'd be glad to be corrected... - --rama Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:34:09 +0000 From: "Asher Reed" <clvwpn5 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Beer competitions Ahh crap Bill -- first I find out dry yeast is a joke and now have to spend more on liquid yeast to make a decent beer -- now I find out I have to spend another $4000 on equipment to make a drinkable beer. This hobby is getting mighty expensive -- I might have to give it up and make baking cookies my hobby -- but wait... I bet I'll need to spend $10000 on a professional grade oven... Crap, you just can win. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:36:08 GMT From: Wil at thebeermanstore.com Subject: Bigs Dogs and Pony Ass Brewing >buy your $4,000 systems... but I feel that you are >either lazy or compenstating like the guy with a new >vette. > >mike Now wait a min... Who ran into the $4,000 brewing system, breaking the pump, with the vette in the garage and then blamed it on the man of the house ;-) Here's my system, can I come out and play at the comps, I swear I will not use dry yeast!!!... http://catalog.com/happydog/ponyass.html Bill, I hate to say this BUT, after watching Michelle Jackson once again open his mouth and get into MORE hot water, I wondered out load, Why on Gods green earth doesn't SOMEBODY tell him to keep his mouth shut? Wil Kolb The Beer Man Plaza at East Cooper 607 B Johnnie Dodds Blvd Mt. Pleasant SC 29464 843-971-0805 Fax 843-971-3084 www.thebeermanstore.com Wil at thebeermanstore.com God bless America! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:34:27 -0500 From: "Joe Uknalis" <birman at netaxs.com> Subject: Best of Philly 2003 The Homebrewers of Philadelphia and Suburbs announce their 20th annual competition- Best of Philadelphia & Suburbs 2003 (HOPS-BOPS). Competition will be held at the Nodding Head Brewery & Restaurant http://www.noddinghead.com/ on April 19. Entries due by April 12. The fee is $6 for the first entry and $5 for each additional entry accompanying the first. HOPS members get $1 off ($5 first entry, $4 each additional entry). Checks must be made payable to HOPS. Mail in location! Home Sweet Homebrew 2008 Sansom Street Philadelphia, PA 19103 Phone: (215) 569-9469 Contact: George or Nancy Mail in location! Stay tuned to our website for details! http://www.hopsclub.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:09:02 +1100 From: "Chris M" <chrismac_aus at hotmail.com> Subject: re: response to competiton ethics This is in response to a post that Steve Alexander put on HBD 4168 that started with - " I was asked to forward/post this message to HBD. I think it's self explanatory. " etc etc This is a great reposnse from a HBer, maybe a few ppl should reflect on this. If you dont get the basics right then it doesnt matter you you are doing, golf, nails or brewing. The quality of posts from certain members is absolute garbage and i have never seen so much garbage posted to this site in the last 15 months, it turning me of subscribing, everyone seems to be missing the point and it is sad. If my local LHBS sprouted this sort of muck they would have been out of business long ago, the ppl posting rubish are giving HBD.ORG a bad name/rep and i'm about ready to turn off HBD.ORG with all whinging whining nerdy postings to the site. This place has gone down hill big time. Chris. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:30:12 -0800 (PST) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: PVC in a rectangular cooler Timothy asked about: "Ok, now after this discussion of $4k systems - I have a $10 system question - I'm about to take the dive into all grain. I have built a manifold out of PVC for my rectangular Rubbermaid cooler, using 1/2" tubing throughout(snip)" Tim, I really don't think you should use PVC for a wort collection manifold. PVC at mash temps will likely collapse (sooner or later), as the maximum rated temperature is 140 deg F. Even if it doesn't collapse, it will likely off-gas into your wort, which ain't gonna do much for flavor. do yourself a favor and use 1/2" copper pipe. Less than $10 worth will make a manifold you can use forever. "After taking out the existing drain plug, the hole through the cooler is just large enough (with about 1/32 of an inch leeway) for the tubing. What can I use to seal the hole?" You can either come up with a bulkhead fitting, which will use threaded parts to compress a washer or O-ring to seal, or seal it up with food grade silicone and let it cure for several days. "I was thinking of using a number of rubber gaskets between the final T fitting and the hole, but that might not be tight enough." Absend a mechanical means such as a bulkhead fitting, it *won't* be tight enough. "I worry about using plumbers putty where it will contact the extract." Plumber's putty is used to keep water and dirt out of small spaces, such as where a faucet meets a sink, for cleanliness. It is *not* used to make weatertight connections, that is the job of seals, O-rings, packing and washers, always in conjunction with a mechanical connection. "Another question is what to use to seal the joints outside the cooler" Again, ditch the PVC "Lastly, I have a PVC ball valve (again, it says suitable for potable water) with 1/2" threading - anyone have any suggestions on the best way to go from there to my boiling pot? I was thinking of getting a 1/2" to 3/4" threaded fitting and adding a plastic spigot (bottling bucket type) (snip)" Use copper pipe, connect it (through a bulkhead fitting or sealed with silicone) to a ball valve outside of the tun. Use a pipe to tubing adapter to connect soft tubing to the ball valve and dircet the wort into your kettle. Hope that helps, Kent Fletcher brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 02:37:07 +0000 From: aa8jzdial at attbi.com Subject: energy sources?? I realize the convenience of lp for getting a big rolling boil quickly. The drawbacks are (for me) the 16 mile round trip to refill and also the occasional, "whoops, I got half way thru the boil and now we out o' gas". What about plumbing my big cooker into my 500 pound house lp system? There is an external regulator on the tank and the house line pressure I believe is in the 3-4 inches of water area. Cheaper? Dangerous? Pressure regualtors needed, etc? I have thought about adding a shroud around my kettle to force more heat around the 15 gallon kettle edge rather then having it fly away into the garage air. The inefficiency though is keeping the garage warm in winter. How about using lp to get the big kettle boiling quickly and switching over to a heating element after it is rolling? I have a single 4500 watt suspended by a white pvc tube assembly for my hlt. Will the 4500 watter keep it rolling and will the white pvc take the 212 degree water ok?? One more. How does our funky homebrew system compare in btu, furlongs per fortnight, megapizels per khz, for each gallon of beer, to the big boys energy useage?? 73's rick dial aa8jz on the frozen shores of Lake Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:28:36 -0600 From: "kent tegels" <ktegels at msn.com> Subject: Smoked wheat beers? I'm still hunting for something to do with the American Wheat Yeast that I have around. In searching around, I ran over a discussion of Gratzer Bier. This was described as a pale, heavily-hopped smoked wheat beer of 7-8 degrees Plato. It sounds interesting. Does anybody have any insight on this or better yet, a recipe for a smoked wheat? Thanks! Kent [633.3, 267.8] Apparent Rennerian "I think it's over there behind that Roddenberry Bush" - Ficus Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:00:10 +0100 From: "Rudolf Krondorfer" <rudolf.krondorfer at sensonor.no> Subject: Aroma hopping Hi everybody! I have a question about aroma hopping. By going from an immersion chiller to a counter-flow chiller i cut down brewing time by at least an hour. This was very nice, but other problems seem to have emerged. I previously used to get a nice strong aroma in my brews, but not anymore after turning to the counterflow chiller. Has anyone else noticed this problem? What can be done to solve it? I miss the aroma but I don't want to move back to the immersion chiller........ Any suggestions will be appreciated. Cheers, Rudolf Krondorfer Norway rudolf.krondorfer at sensonor.no Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:04:21 +0200 From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za> Subject: Competition Rules While we are on the topic, I picked up a trend in our local competitions. The guys who were doing well tended to be those who bought a slurry from a local micro and pitched that, rather than those who grew yeast up themselves. Our club committee discussed the issue and we now have a rule that states that your yeast must be at least one fermentation removed from a professional set up. The thinking is that yeast management is the trickiest part of brewing, and pitching a very large healthy slurry that you picked up at the brewery that day is too large a short cut. Is this sort of rule applied elsewhere? After the discussion around here, I am feeling a little bit like a whiner for having introduced it. Ant Hayes Johannesburg Confidentiality Warning ======================= The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone other than the addressee is strictly prohibited. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:40:40 +0100 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: First few all grain batches Hi Mike How was your hot and cold break? With the hydrometer you measure the dissolved solids, not just sugars. How do you aerate your wort? Is your ferment at the right temp? Is your Brown still bubbling? If not, prime and bottle it. Cheers Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 03:24:04 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Trotter <sandinmysuds at yahoo.com> Subject: Basic kegging questions I'm sure this has been covered before in this forum, but a search of the archives for "kegging" and "carbonation" yields a gazillion hits. I consider myself a beginner, with eight batches behind me, to give you an idea of my experience. I'm starting to collect the equipment for kegging and have read every article I can find on the topic and think I'm good to go with a few questions which should be simple for the all-grain pro's here: 1. Carbonation. Some articles recommend force carbonation and others recommend priming with sugar as in bottling first. Is there an advantage to one or the other? Also, I've seen the chart in books and on the web where the entering arguments are "desired carbonation" and "beer volume", yielding the pressure to set the regulator to. I've always just primed with corn sugar (bottling) and everything came out great. Where does the "desired carbonation" level come from and how do I adjust this if I prime the beer prior to attaching the tank? 2. Keg volume. I'm really enjoying this new hobby and I'm brewing beer faster than I drink it, thus I give away a lot of my beer. I would like to bottle about 1/3 of the batch for my buds and keg the rest. Is there any problem with kegging say, 3 gallons in the corny keg or is the forced carb setup designed for the keg to be full in the beginning? Thanks in advance and any off-post replies are welcome as well... Aloha, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:01:06 -0500 From: "Dan Gross" <degross at starpower.net> Subject: RE: BU:GU " Designing Great Beers Shoes asks about the BU:GU ratio concept. My understanding of this is that it is a simple way to classify beers according to their hop bitterness versus original gravity. As Ray Daniel's book describes, one can divide the IBU number for a beer by the last whole numbers of the original gravity to get this ratio. For instance if my ESB has a calculated bitterness of 40 IBU and an OG of 1.050 I would calculate the BU:GU ration by dividing 40 by 50. This gives me a BU:GU ratio of .80. Checking this number gives me a snapshot comparison of different beers and beer styles. If I was going to brew an IPA I would expect to see a BU:GU ratio of at least 1 or higher since that style should be plenty hoppy. Anything below that would indicate that I was way off the mark. It's fun to do this calculation with commercial beers when the BU and GU numbers are available. I agree with you that "Designing Great Beers" is an outstanding book, I find myself going back to it time and again before I brew. Dan Gross Olney, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:43:46 -0600 From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com> Subject: "Stock" Comps... > Fine go ahead. Start your own homebrew comp. Only allow rookie extract > homebrewers and yourself to enter. > & > Maybe there should be some Stock Brewing Competitions. We had a homebrew shop here in Houston that did exactly that. It was an extract competition, it lasted exactly 2 years. I think the category of "first time entrant" (which we added to the Dixie Cup after seeing it at the AHA's) gives the new brewer a chance to get good feedback against brewers of like skill. However, as an FYI... The Foam Rangers took 4 medals at the recent MCAB. (1 Gold, 2 Silvers and a Bronze, I think) The MCAB is modeled after the Masters, where you have to have already won to even get in to the competition. To the best of my knowledge, all 4 winning Ranger entries were brewed on "regular" brewing equipment. (No RIMS, HERMS, etc.) The real kicker? The MCAB Gold medal in English Pale Ale? A partial mash extract beer from a brewer that really doesn't enter competitions much because he's "too inexperienced." Anybody can win. The English Pale Ale that went to MCAB didn't win at some dinky competition, but the largest single site event last year, the Dixie Cup, with 967 entries, the majority of which come from the so called "pros" with systems that keep getting slammed. -BDB2 Bev D. Blackwood II Brewsletter Editor The Foam Rangers http://www.foamrangers.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:37:10 -0500 From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Yeast Behavior Have any of you guys used the WLP006 Bedford British Ale yeast? I ask in that it seems to behave rather differently than many others that I've used. On the 10th I brewed a batch (7lb Maris otter, 1 lb aromatic, 3 lb maize) and pitched a vial directly (w/o a starter). The lag time was significant ( about 24 hrs)... then what initially appeared at the top of the wort appeared to look like cornmeal...in clumps... and the fermentation was for the first day VERY slow,... then the next morning (keeping the temp at around 70F) it finally had regular / steady bubbles,...and the cornmeal clumps are now continuous across the top, but just under is a beautiful white layer, nearly 1/4" thick, of very small, and white bubbles... The smell coming out of the fermenter is lovely,...and I am no longer concerned with this aberrant behavior (is there a model of normality for yeast? or, are they like us?) Anyway, I have never seen such a head of thick yellowish stuff, under which is the small white layer... (the white layer, by the way, reminds me of the fine white head that my lagers often exhibit,..but without the cinnamon-looking stuff ) For what it is worth... I know that the gravity was higher than it should have been with just the one vial,..my efficiency was way up (78% as opposed to my usual 70-71%)so the target of 1.053 was exceeded by 6 points... The yeast was fresh (dated best before 2/03), and placed on the kitchen/ brewery counter the night before use.. If it had gone 1 more day w/o activity then I would have pitched a re- hydrated Safale, which I had at the ready... Anyone use this yeast before? I plan on re-using with a higher gravity porter/ brown ale... Lastly, if anyone wants to experiment with an out of category brown ale that I recently made (MLK Brown Ale), let me know and I'll send the recipe....it is VERY good...to me..(Saison yeast...yum!...) I have been experimenting with maize, and I find it a-maize-ing...ie the flavors that it contributes to several differnet styles.. Happy Brewing! ...with in-expensive as well as expensive equipment...experimentation and innovation is, to me, the key to our collective health, ...and sanity. ..Darrell [544.9 miles, 68.9~]Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:21:00 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us> Subject: Whining Wednesday. 46 Kb HBD, and about 90% of it was on the same, tired useless, thread. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:21:29 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com> Subject: Wow! The past couple of weeks MUST be a new record low signal:noise ratio on the HBD. Impressive. Clinitest, Botulism - move aside, we've got a new winner!! Paul Kensler Gaithersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:58:21 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: two things/or three "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> wrote some really good stuff about yeast relationships. Thanks, Steve. This won't help us make better beer, but just as some brewers are also equipment geeks, I am a history geek. It makes brewing beer more fun. >the hybridization [producing lager yeast] >must have been a quite recent event." Wheat is considered a hybrid that was shaped (though not consciously directed) by humans, and only a few thousand years ago. Lagers are thought to have arisen in Bavaria in the late middle ages by my reading. Does your reading suggest that lager yeast hybridization is as recent as this? I would guess perhaps so, since there wasn't any other place for it to arise before this. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:20:00 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: First few all grain batches Mike asks about his high final gravity of 1.020. First of all that isn't necessarily too high, especially in the case of a Wee Heavy. Yes, perhaps the Brown ale could be drier, but then what Brown ale was it? Things to look at/consider: (1) Recipe. What was the grain bill? Lot's of crystal or dextrin malt? (2) Mash temp. Well, you seem to be ok at 150 for a lower amount of dextrins but then this was with the Wee Heavy so the higher OG may still yield 1.022. But this brings us to (3) Thermometer calibration. Make sure it's measuring correctly. Perhaps you weren't at the mash temperatures you thought you were. (4) Water chemistry certainly affects enzyme activity; check this out. (5) Yeast attenuation ability. Some yeasts just don't attenuate as much as others. Look at the specs for your yeast. With 75% attenuation, other factors being controlled, would indicate lower FGs. (5) Calibrate the hydrometer; how sure are you of the readings --- have you done a calibration of your hydrometer? Just some things to look into. With only two batches of all grain, it sounds like Mikes's doing well so far. I found it takes a while to learn your system so you can then create your own recipes (or modify others) to get the results you want. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:17:44 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Diacetyl Rest and repitching on a Lager Yeast Cake William Menzl <menzl at concentric.net> writes from Midland, Michigan: >I have a CAP currently going and was wondering about doing the >diacetyl rest and repitching a fresh batch on the yeast cake. >I have seen many different opinions about when to do the diacetyl >rest, either leave it on the cake and take it up to 60 deg F, or >transfer to a secondary and then rest at 60 deg F. Anyone have >a specific recommendation? I usually transfer, then rest, but >I have been wondering if that is the best. Does any >recommendation change if I want to pitch another CAP on the >yeast cake? I am using White Labs Czech Budejovice yeast and >would like to experience what fermentation would be like for a >lager yeast when I have a large cake (I suspect I under pitched >this last batch.) You want to have plenty of active yeast present to consume the diacetyl. To me that means before you rack, and while you still have some fermentation going on. Some yeasts don't need this rest at all, though I suspect this one would benefit by it. You might not want to pitch all of the yeast in your next batch. Generally an ounce (25-30 ml) of thick, pasty yeast sedimented solids per gallon is considered right for a lager. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:28:52 -0500 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: Michael Hartsock high FG, Shoes bitterness to gravity? WY3787 and Michael Hartsock asks about his high FG batches. I had this problem for a long time. Batches would never get below 1.016 to 1.020. High OG batches had trouble getting below 1.030. Eventually, I checked the calibration on my thermometer and found that it was registering about 8degF too low. Meaning my "150F" mashes were really closer to 158F. Once I got a new thermometer, the problem went away and my normal ales reach 1.010 to 1.012 and my high OG beers are close to 1.020. I had virtually eliminated other variables since I was pitching on prior yeast cakes and knew that I had enough yeast. Check your thermometer. Then check your yeast amount by repitching rather than using a starter. Then check your aeration. "Shoes" asks about the BU:GU ratio in Daniels book. This is a pretty good thing I occasionally consider when evaluating overall impression of brewed beers. The way it works...... imagine a pale ale with 1.050 OG with about 35 IBUs. This would amount to 50 gravity units and 35 IBUs or a BU:GU ratio of 35:50 or 0.7:1. Now imagine Old Crustacean barleywine from Rogue with an OG of about 1.100 and 125 IBU and a BU:GU of 125:100 or 1.25:1. Now imagine a hefe with 1.045 OG and 12 IBU or a BU:GU of 12:45 or 0.26:1. This is how its calculated for brews. How you interpret it is partially taste bud dependent but I think the guidelines presented by Daniels are close to my impressions as well althoguh I tend to hop heavily. Anybody have experience with Wyeast 3787 producing initial (both end of primary and end of secondary fermentation) tastes and smells of cloves which then dissapate with later aging even when fermented at about 70 to 72F? I was surprized to find these initially, but glad when they started to age out. FWIW, this concerns my first attempt at a dubbel. About the competition thing...... I enter solely for stylistic feedback (which I generally get good impressions of although some styles are more poorly judged than others IMHO). I do not brew on a $4K system - I still brew in the kitchen using a 5 gallon pot, 10 gallon Gott, immersion chiller, and finally have changed to pure O2 aeration. I even win a few ribbons when I purposely brew to style rather than brewing to what I like to taste which can be "extreme beers". I do like to see how I place compared to certain people that I know that brew consistently well and stylisticly so. MOst of them do not have $4K systems and actually have similar systems to what I use. If people are "good brewers", the biggest thing to do well in competition is to do your darndest to brew to style and then make your batch slightly more exciting to distinguish it from "just another highly hopped IPA" or "just another roasty irish stout". Thanks, pete czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:32:33 -0500 From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net> Subject: 1812 Era Ale Recipe Wow, the current raving about equipment and competitions has me longing for the good old days of aluminum vs. stainless and hot-side aeration! At least it doesn't take long to read the list in the morning. I've been looking for a recipe that would simulate a typical American ale brewed around the time of the War of 1812. A recipe from any geographical location in the US would be fine .... something that was possibly brewed on the frontier of the Northwest Territory would be excellent. I've found bits and pieces of ingredients, but still haven't come up with the complete package and need help from the historians of the group. Thought it might be fun to serve a little authentic ale at a reenactment later this summer. Many thanks in advance. Bob Hall Napoleon, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:35:25 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: MCAB-V Perhaps I missed the post somewhere, but for those that haven't already seen the winners list from the MCAB-V, check it out at http://burp.org/mcab5/winner03.asp. I want to also thank Bill, Tom, Andy, Steve, Phil and all the members of BURP who put on a great event. I was lucky enough to be able to attend and privileged enough to judge the BOS round with a great team of experienced judges. All of these were quite good and the getting down to the last five, which were all excellent, was difficult. But John's Isebock was truly amazing. It was as if you put your head in a sack of Munich malt. Quite difficult to get that level of balanced flavor and aroma with so many melanodins without oxidation. And don't think that this was just another "big beers win" situation; it really was just the best beer on that day in that competition. Hats off to John, the BURP club and all those who made it to Washington in the snow. This is what brewing is all about. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:39:52 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Bottle carbonation monitoring trick Brewers A common complaint read here, especially from beginners, is that it is hard to know when bottled beer is properly carbonated. You hate to open a bottle only to find it is still flat. Eric Warner shows a gas gauge (manometer) clamped to the top of a wheat beer bottle in a German brewery in his German Wheat Beer book, but few of us have such a device. I hardly ever bottle, but a few weeks ago I was using a Carbonator Cap to carbonate some beer from a keg in a one liter PET bottle to take to a party. As the bottle got hard from the CO2, I thought, Duh! Why not just fill a small PET cola bottle at the time of bottling? Then you could monitor how hard the bottle gets as CO2 is produced. I wish I had remembered to do this when I bottled last week. :-( Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:04:53 -0600 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: Re: BU:GU Shoe asks: Can someone please tell me how to utilize Ray Daniel's BU: GU ratio in "Designing Great Beers." Shoe, I agree it is a great book! Using the ratio is simple. First convert the original gravity to gravity units (GU). GU = 1000 * (1 - O.K..) example 50 = 1000 * (1 - 1.050) Next multiply the BU:GU ratio time the GU value to get target bitterness in IBUs: BU = GU * (BU:GU) continuing the example, if BU:GU = 0.70 then: 35 = 50 * 0.70 Cheers, Dan Morey Club B.A.B.B.L.E. http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:24:31 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: equipment Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> writes from Switzerland: >I once tried a beer brewed on a wood fired copper washing tub. >These two guys make exceptional beers with their very primitive >setup.(try to keep a mash rest temp. with a wooden fire is a >challenge, i've seen it) Mike O'Brien (of pico-Brewing Systems) dresses up in 1776 Colonial garb and brews at festivals with a primitive system. He did this at the NHC 2000 in Livonia (Detroit), Michigan. There were photos of this on the web somewhere - can anyone come up with a link? He mashes in a half wooden whiskey barrel with a hole in the center of the bottom and a long wooden stick (probably a tool handle) as a plug. It's tapered on the end. He lays spruce boughs across the bottom as a false bottom (straw can be used, too). He heats the water in a black iron "witch's" cauldron over an open wood fire, in which he also boils the wort. When the mash is over, he lifts up the plug and drains into a bucket, then recirculates until he gets clear wort. He can adjust the flow by cocking the plug sideways. Then he fills the bucket and pours it into the cauldron to boil. He hops as usual. He does make a concession to modernity by using culture ale yeast, and he ferments in carboys and kegs in Cornies. The ale he makes from this is as good as any. The spruce flavor is quite subtle, especially after a few weeks (or a few beers). You can't really tell just what it is, it's just an added complexity. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:16:46 -0500 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: evolutionary niches The recent bit about yeast and fruit and developement of enzymatic systems made me start thinking. (look out, a little thinking can be a dangerous thing) With a bit of searching I found out a bit about fruit and the source of the simple fruit sugars, glucose and fructose. >From ctstateu.edu I got: >>The way fruits ripen is that there is commonly a ripening signal... >a burst of ethylene production. Ethylene is a simple hydrocarbon >gas (H2C=CH2) that ripening fruits make and shed into the atmosphere. >Sometimes a wound will cause rapid ethylene production...thus picking >a fruit will sometimes signal it to ripen...as will an infection of bacteria >or fungi on the fruit. This ethylene signal causes developmental >changes that result in fruit ripening. >New enzymes are made because of the ethylene signal. >These include hydrolases to help break down chemicals inside the > fruits,amylases to accelerate hydrolysis of starch into sugar, > pectinases to catalyze degradation of pectin (the glue between cells), >and so on. Ethylene apparently "turns on" the genes that are then >transcribed and translated to make these enzymes. The enzymes then >catalyze reactions to alter the characteristics of the fruit. >The action of the enzymes cause the ripening responses... >The degradation of starch by amylase produces sugar. Steve's comment "but the only source of maltose and maltotriose I'm aware of are from starch degradation " is satisfied. The scenerio of wind-fall unripe fruit leaving open a niche for yeast to develop complex enzyme systems that can ferment a large number of higher carbohydrates is almost a certainty. I bet Saacharomyces diastaticus would be one good example. I have even heard that Lambic brewers add unmalted wheat as a source of carbohydrates for the wild yeast fermentation. If I look at the history of brewing I get the impression that originally all beers came from wild yeast fermentations and these assorted yeast could ferment all the carbohydrates available. I suspect it was the hand of man that selected "brewing strains" that did not ferment so fully. NL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:35:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: Skotrats Thought for the Day If those who have taken the time to buy or make shiny stainless almost pro quality Home Brewing Equipment should not be able to enter Home Brewing Competitions... Then surely Overly Opinionated Home Brew Store owners should not be able to enter into Home Brewing discussions or forums... I mean all the Opinionated Home Brew Store Owners want to do is sell and make money of us Home Brewers right? Seems to be another conflict of interest... I am of course using said Home Brewer Store Owner logic on this one but what is good for the goose is good for the gander right? After all... We are just Home Brewers seeking better beer, better recognition and of course SHINY THINGS! Just my thoughts... C'ya! -Scott ===== "My life is a dark room... One big dark room" - BeetleJuice http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:59:35 -0800 (PST) From: Gunnar Emilsson <cdmfed_emilsson at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Diacetyl Rest and repitching on a Lager Yeast Cake In HBD #4169, William Menzl asks about performing a diacetyl rest and repitching on the yeast cake from a CAP fermented with WLP 802 Czech Budojovice lager yeast. I just finished brewing 5 consecutive lagers using this yeast, beginning in early December and diacetyl in any of the batches, so I would not think a diacetyl rest is necessary. If in doubt, take a sample and taste it! Regarding William's desire to experience fermentation using a lager yeast cake with this particular yeast, I can report the following. The first brew I made was a Vienna Lager, S.G. 1.045, using all Vienna malt. I pitched a half gallon starter of WLP 802. I observed a dense, 1-inch firm foam in my 6.5 gallon glass carboy fermentor. Looked like the krasuen in the giant oak open fermentors at Plzensky Prazdroj in Pilsen! After two weeks, I transferred to a secondary, and pitched a S.G. 1.055 CAP in the primary. The krausen from this 5-gallon batch rose about halfway to the 6.5 gallon carboy opening. The third batch pitched in this fermentor, a 1.052 Bohemian pilsner, required a blowoff tube, and I lost about a pint. The fourth batch, a 1.060 Czech dunkel aka U Fleku, blew out a half-gallon of foam. For my final batch, I split the yeast cake and used half of it in a 6.5 gallon plastic bucket fermentor containing a 1.096 Baltic Porter, and the remainder to finish off a knockoff of Steve Jone's Old Hunter's Ale, which had been in the tertiary for several months after a primary fermentation using Wyeast 1084. The old ale has had visible renewed activity for the past few weeks now, even in my 50 degree F. basement. The Baltic porter krasuen spewed to the lid of the 6.5 gallon bucket.I'd also like to note that while I aerated the first batch, I did nothing more than allow the chilled wort (50-60 deg. F.) to "freefall" from the bottling bucket spigot into the glass carboy or primary plastic fermentor. In my experience, large quantities of yeast are more important than aeration to ensure against a stuck fermentation. Gunnar Emilsson Helena, Montana Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:44:44 -0500 From: George de Piro <george at EvansAle.com> Subject: Separate lauter tun vs. combi-tun Hi all, Kevin asks why I stated that a separate lauter tun is more desirable than a combi-tun (combination mash/lauter tun). The main reason is wort quality: you can get much clearer wort if you are using separate vessels. When you mash in the lauter tun (like most brewpub brewers and some homebrewers), you can end up with a lot of husk material under the screens because of the agitation during mash mixing. This stuff will cloud the wort as the runoff proceeds, even if you have recirculated until good clarity prior to the runoff. This occurs because the husk material is not glued to the bottom of the lauter tun, and turbulence kicks it up. Turbulence is caused by temperature differences, flow rate differences, and density differences that occur as the runoff procedes. Separate mash and lauter tuns are a must for breweries trying to maximize production. The mash is moved to the lauter tun and a new mash is started immediately. If one designs their procedures so that no vessel is occupied for more than 2 hours, a brewer can produce 12 batches each day. That cannot be done with a combi-tun, because mashing, recirculating and run-off will exceed the two hour limit. Have fun! George de Piro Head Brewer, C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station 19 Quackenbush Square Albany, NY, USA 12207 (518)447-9000 www.EvansAle.com Brewers of Kick-Ass Brown: Twice declared the Best American Brown Ale in the USA at the Great American Beer Festival (2000 & 2002)! Return to table of contents
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