---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Microwave Brewing ("Ian Watson")
  Re:  RIMS Design ("Dennis Collins")
  RE: Bill Wible (Sean McDonald)
  How Long will crushed grain last? (Steve Tighe)
  Question on grain utilization ("Andy Mikesell")
  Re: Party Pig and staling ("Bill Riel")
  Weight Watchers and Homebrew points ("Andy Mikesell")
  RE: RIMs Design ("Martin Brungard")
  Disposing of Brewery Waste Water (Stuart Lay)
  Quick disconnects (Marc Sedam)
  Counterflow with sabco brew magic (jim williams)
  Carbonating in soda keg with oxygenator stone ("Romanowsky, Paul")
  Thinking about a Kolsch (darrell.leavitt)
  Mixing finishing sugar (bruce)
  party pig answers (m m)
  Re:   Regarding Passivation of Stainless Steel (Bill Tobler)
  Re: Regarding Passivation of Stainless Steel (John Palmer)
  Less Sour Gueuze (Hayes Antony)
  RE: Rochefort 8 Cloning contest ("Dan Gross")
  Charter.net (Pat Babcock)
  Charter.net (Pat Babcock)
  RE: Cynmar Corp. (Paul Shick)
  RE: Cynmar (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Monitoring bottle conditioning (David Towson)
  Re: Guinness Bottles w w w w widgets ("Gilbert Milone")
  Guiness Bottles; unfair competition (Scott Perfect)
  Re: DIMS (Drop In Manifold System) ("Bret Morrow")
  Re: liquid quick disconnects (Sedam) (David Towson)
  Re: electric vs. lp, RIMs Design (Ronald La Borde)
  Re: Grist/Water raito & False bottoms (David Towson)
  Water ("Patrick Hughes")


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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:28:15 -0500
From: "Ian Watson" <realtor at niagara.com>
Subject: Microwave Brewing

Hi all

The recent talk about microwave ovens reminded me of my brother-in-laws
method of full grain mashing.  He uses a microwave oven with the temperature
probe.  He puts an unknown amount of water and grist ratio in a plastic tub
to mash in and inserts the probe.  He then sets the oven temp to 155 F or
whatever.  He calls these brews ---> MicroBrews.  I've tasted his beers, and
they SEEM to be of normal alcohol content, so I can only assume he got
conversion.  Just thought I'd throw this method out for discussion.  I
thought it was a interesting idea.


Ian Watson
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
[235, 71.9] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:27:26 -0500
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Re:  RIMS Design

Mark Vernon asks about temperature probe placement.

This is a very important consideration when building a recirculating system.
For most brewers, you will have one temperature controller that controls a
heater (RIMS or HERMS) based upon a signal from a single temperature probe
(thermocouple, RTD, etc) located somewhere in the recirc loop.  In a system
design like this, the rule is that the farther the probe is placed from the
source of heat in the direction of wort flow, the larger the temperature
fluctuation you can expect in your mash.  This is why:

When the wort is recirculated, it travels from the top of the mash, down
through the grain bed, out of the mash tun, through the pump, then back to
the top of the mash.  Somewhere in that loop, heat is imparted to the wort
(heat isn't always imparted, but the wort will take the same route
regardless of whether it is heated or not).  If your mash is at 148 F and
the temperature controller is set for 150 F, the controller will call for
heat and the recirculating wort will be heated somewhere in the loop.  If
your probe is located right at the exit of your heat source, then the probe
will know exactly when the recirculated wort reaches 150 F.  The probe will
then signal the controller that the temperature is reached and the
controller will modulate the heat source so that 150 F is maintained.  If
the probe is located in the mash tun, say, 1/2 way into the bed, then the
probe sees 148 and the controller continues to add heat to the wort.  The
probe will only see heated wort after 1/2 of the total wort has passed
through the heat source, but in the meantime, the heater may have heated the
wort to 155 or so, but since the probe couldn't see it, it couldn't tell the
controller to quit heating.  So now, the layer of heated wort in the mash
reaches the probe and the probe tells the controller to quit heating.  The
temperature at the probe continues to rise because the wort that was
overheated during the delay is now passing the probe.  Meanwhile, the
controller isn't heating and the temperature of the wort in the subsequent
layers falls, and continues to fall because the probe is now seeing 155 F
wort.  By the time the temperature at the probe falls to 150 F, the wort
exiting the heat source may be at 145 F.  Soon after, the probe tells the
controller to call for heat and the cycle repeats itself.  If you locate the
probe even lower in the mash, even more wort has to be recirculated before
the probe can react which will increase the temperature swing even more.
The absolute worst case scenario is locating the probe immediately prior to
the heat source, at which time, 100% of the wort has to be recirculated
before probe sees any temperature change imparted by the heater.

Some folks put by-pass loops around the heater in their systems, frankly
I've never understood this.  Perhaps it is with systems that use the HLT as
the heat source in which the temperature of the HLT water is hard to
control.  Regardless, a bypass loop puts a built-in temperature variance in
the mash because the wort will be alternately heated and cooled as the
by-pass is alternately engaged/disengaged.  The best way to maintain a
constant mash temperature is by measuring the wort directly exiting the heat
source and having a properly designed heat source that can maintain a
certain temperature.  With these two things, the controller should be able
to maintain a constant recirculated wort temperature within 1 F.

The issue of step mashing with a recirculating system is another matter.
For a temp increase to occur, first the heat source must adjust itself so
that the wort exiting the heat source is at the new temperature, then the
entire wort volume has to be recirculated before the entire mash is at the
new temperature.  This means the two biggest factors here are batch size and
recirc rate.  For obvious reasons, we don't want the wort exiting the heat
source to be above the new temperature at any time.  Also, recirc rates more
than about 1 gallon per minute are problematic (grain bed compaction).  The
temperature ramp rate is usually quoted in degrees F/minute, but as you can
see, it is a two step process.  To be accurate, it should be calculated by
taking the new temp minus the current temp divided by the total amount of
time it takes the entire mash to reach the new temp.  If you use the time it
takes for the wort exiting the heat source to reach temp, you can exaggerate
the ramp rate substantially even though the entire mash hasn't reached temp.
Expect actual ramp rates in the 1 - 1.5 F range.

Sorry about the length.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com

"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice".




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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:40:50 -0600
From: Sean McDonald <seanmc at irga.com>
Subject: RE: Bill Wible

Alan,

Your comments were unoriginal (i.e. someone's already posted using the
"weapons inspector" theme), completely useless and painful to read.
Christ almighty, give it up on the Bill Wible argument. If you don't
like what he has to say atleast do everyone a favor and post an original
thought and in a within atleast a week of his comments (not months
later). Or, better yet, if you don't like what he has to say, ignore him
and not post@ all (when you post you're lending credence and/or
publicity to his arguments).

On to another subject, I'm going to Ireland in a couple of weeks and am
wondering if anyone can recommmend any decent pubs. I'll be in Shannon,
Galway, Dublin, Cork, Blarney and Limmerick. Any suggestions would be
appreciated.


Sean McDonald





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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:43:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Tighe <steve_tighe at yahoo.com>
Subject: How Long will crushed grain last?

Hello Brewers,

Well I couldn't find the answer to this in the
archives, so here goes.

I went to the LHBS on Saturday with the intention of
brewing on Sunday. Well with one thing and another the
grain I crushed in the store is still sitting in the
bucket I crushed it into (dry). Hope to brew later
this week but it may need to wait till next weekend.

Will crushed grain still be good a week later? I'd
hate to have to dump it, but it's not that big a deal
($10-12 bucks) if the beer won't come out well with
the "old" grain. And what, exactly, will go wrong with
it? FWIW, it's 6.5 lb two-row, 3 lb munich and a pound
of medium crystal, with a bit of wheat malt.

Incidentally I have my SF Lager yeast sitting in the
fridge after having fermented out in a one-quart
starter. Will this still be good to go on Thursday or
Saturday, or should I decant the beer and add another
quart of wort a day or two beforehand?

Thanks
Steve Tighe in Berkeley CA










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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:51:55 -0500
From: "Andy Mikesell" <andy_mikesell at yahoo.com>
Subject: Question on grain utilization

Hi all -

I've had lower than expected OG readings from my last 4 all grain brews, so
I took a few steps to address.

Based on the last few HDB threads regarding instrument accuracy, I replaced
my floating $5 thermometer with a more accurate lab thermometer.  Next, I
replaced my hydrometer and bought a BRIX Refractometer with ATC to double
check against.

Still, I have lower than expected OG from the all grain kit I brewed this
weekend from Northern Brewer:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/docs/kis-html/1253.html.  I hit the 153 degree
strike temperature and extended the mash from 60 minutes to 90 minutes for
good measure.  Ending mash temperature dropped 2 degrees during the 90
minute period.  My water PH was 5.4

Using the grain point values at http://hbd.org/uchima/tech/extract.html
assigned to 5.5 lbs. Wheat (39) and 4 lbs. Cara-pils Belgian (34), I should
expect my theoretical grain points to be 350.5, or 1070.1.  The recipe says
the OG should be 1049, which translates to approximately 70% efficiency.  My
temperature corrected OG readings were 1041, or 58.5% efficiency.

So, what to do?  For my next brew, should I use the recipe OG and correct
the grain bill by the difference in efficiency?  If the expected efficiency
is 70% and mine is 58.5%, do I add 12.5% to the grain bill in a balanced
manner?  Is that relationship linear?

Should I make up the difference will DME (something I'd rather not do)?

Any ideas are appreciated!

- ------------------------------------
Andrew Mikesell
Westwood, MA



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:59:29 -0800
From: "Bill Riel" <up883 at victoria.tc.ca>
Subject: Re: Party Pig and staling


BrianS <schar at cardica.com> wrote:

>My primary concern with the Party Pig is how fast the beer goes stale 
>after the pig is "tapped".  I'm afraid that the last beer out of the pig 
>might be getting stale by the time I get to drink it.  Is this a valid 
>concern?  What is the experience of Party Pig users out there?

Brian,

don't worry about it - beer keeps quite well in the pig - the pouch
expands to fill headspace as you tap beer, so there's no problem there.

I've had beer in the 'pig for up to about 6 months, and not had any
problems with staling - in fact, it's more of a problem with beer in my
cornie kegs. I often find that once they (the cornies) get down to
about a third full or so, they often 'lose' something. I suspect it's
related to the volume of headspace in the cornies, and that is not an
issue with the pig.

Bill



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:03:00 -0500
From: "Andy Mikesell" <andy_mikesell at yahoo.com>
Subject: Weight Watchers and Homebrew points

Hi all -

Many of you may be familiar with the concept of Weight Watchers "point"
system to help one lose weight by assigning point values to foods using a
combination of fat/calorie/fiber content.  My wife has been doing this for a
few months, has lost weight, and looks great.

However, she won't drink my homebrew (more for me!) until I can determine
the "point" value.  There are generic values assigned to "beer" but I'd like
to provide something more authoritative.  I did a search against the
archives, but did not find anything to calculate the value.

Assuming the fat and fiber content is negligible, how do I figure out the
caloric value of my homebrew?  Is there a way to do this without a precision
lab and specialized instruments?


- ------------------------------------
Andrew Mikesell
Westwood, MA



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:10:14 -0500
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com>
Subject: RE: RIMs Design

The location of sensor probes and thermometers in a RIMS circuit is critical,
as I have found.  In my recent post to HBD, I related my findings.  Those
findings strongly suggest that locating a probe or thermometer at the heater
outlet is mandatory.  It is too easy to locally overheat and denature the
wort.  Locating a probe at the heater outlet is even more critical if a PID
is used to control the heater.  The PID would probably be fooled if it
measured only the tun outlet temperature, again leading to potential local
overheating.
 
I suggest that the primary temperature sensing location should be the heater
outlet.  I further recommend that a secondary temperature sensing point
should be at the tun outlet.  Comparison of the primary and secondary
temperatures can be used to judge the overall mash temperature and step
progress.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL


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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:05:19 -0800
From: Stuart Lay <zzlay at yahoo.com>
Subject: Disposing of Brewery Waste Water

A question for rural brewers,

My family and I are preparing to move to a rural area.  Instead of a 
sewer line to dispose of waste water and sanitizing agents (I use 
Star-San, which is advertised to be environmentally friendly), it will 
go into the septic system.

How much damage will this do to a septic system or the resident 
micro-beasties?  Should I find another way to dispose of the sanitizer?  
How do you deal with this?

Thanks,

stuart



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:21:45 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Quick disconnects

Wow, that was a quick response.  Thanks to everyone who responded.  Here 
are the sources:

Beer, Beer, and More Beer 
(http://www.morebeer.com/index.html?page=detail.php3&pid=H501D)
McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com, part number 5385K15)
Chester Paul Company (ph:323.245.3761, they sell Hansen QDs 
http://coupling.tuthill.com)
US Plastics (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp)--search for 
polysulfone fittings

In each case you have the option to buy shutoff connects (where the 
liquid will stay in the tubing) or straight-through tubing (open to air 
so you can drain it), as well as either hose barb or NPT fittings.  I'm 
going to buy 1/2", straight through, hose-barb fittings.  

By the way, these puppies are expensive.  They run between $10 (Hansen) 
to $18.75 (BBMB) per set of couplings, prior to tax and S/H.

Enjoy.  
__

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:39:19 -0500
From: jim williams <jimswms at cox.net>
Subject: Counterflow with sabco brew magic

Not to offend Ol'Bill too much, but my new Sabco Brew Magic system and
Chilzilla counterflow chiller arrived today (yee hawwww!)! I can't wait to
learn how to use this system. I have always used an immersion chiller in my
brewing, so, not only is the brew magic new, but also the CF chiller. I
guess, I'm just wondering if anyone out there uses this setup and could
comment on using the counterflow. There isn't a pump from the boil kettle. I
was under the impression that CF chillers worked best with a pump, pumping
the wort through and into a fermentor. It seems that I may have to rely on
gravity to do the work. My old immersion is not up to cooling 10 gallons.
It's on it's death bed as is!

Any comments appreciated!

Cheers,
jim



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:02:16 -0500
From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com>
Subject: Carbonating in soda keg with oxygenator stone

I'm looking at "THE STONE" from Gulfstream.  It's 5/8" OD, 2" long with hose
barb and 1 Micron porosity.  They state that you can attach it to your GAS
input tube on the soda keg with a length of vinyl tubing.  The stone resets
on the bottom of the keg.  Then force carbonate with CO2.  No rocking of
keg, etc. and you can accomplish desired carbonation in about 15 minutes.
Seems like a great idea.  Anyone out there currently doing this?  How about
some feedback as to pros and cons.  Will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in
advance.

Paul Romanowsky
Harleysville, PA


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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:09:03 -0500
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Thinking about a Kolsch


I am thinking about a Kolsch, using WL German Ald/Kolsch yeast...and have 
looked at Papazian's HOMEBREWERS GOLD, p 180-181, description of 
Stoddard's Kolsch,...and wonder...they have no diacetyl rest.  Is that not 
needed for this yeast/ this style?  

The plan is for 6 lb 2 row
                1 lb wheat
                1 lb Munich

Single stage infusion at 150F for 60

I am basically following the description in Papazian,...adding some fresh 
lager yeast as it goes into secondary...new to me...but wonder, is a 
diacetyl rest called for?

 ..Darrell



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:22:58 -0800
From: bruce <vze4pvxk at verizon.net>
Subject: Mixing finishing sugar

Hi, I have been brewing for a while, but have been observing something
perplexing.  When I add the finishing sugar syrup (corn sugar and water) just
before bottling, I stir for quite a long time, but still seem to end up with a
few bottles with too little carbonation, and a few with too much.  With stout,
most of the bottles are fine, but an occasional bottle has largish bubbles that
dissipate, instead of the fine smooth foam I expect.  Could there be
contamination that spoils the carbonation and head?  Is there a foolproof way of
mixing in the finishing sugar syrup? Thanks for your feedback.  Bruce Bush (no
relation)



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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:00:13 -0600
From: m m <m.morency at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: party pig answers

Addressing the concern of beer getting stale while in a Party Pig....I 
have never had the beer in there that long to really see if this can 
happen. I believe the pig holds about 2 1/4 gallons of beer which seems 
to go pretty quick in my house. If all goes well there should be a nice 
blanket of carbon dioxide in the pig that should keep it fresh as the 
pouch expands to fill headspace. I have also noticed that the pressure 
in the pig makes for a very clear draft.




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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:30:23 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re:   Regarding Passivation of Stainless Steel

At the end of John's post, he said:


Any questions?

Me, Me!!  If you do one of the no-no's, like severally scrubbing a used 15
gallon Volrath pot with a box of steel wool to get years of kitchen grease
off, what is the best fix?  The culprit was me, and I beg forgiveness and
will do my penance tomorrow by saying the beer prayer 4 times while drinking
4 beers.  (not all at the same time)  The pot looks fine, and has no rust
spots.  I did this 3 or 4 months ago, and haven't used the pot yet.  Still
sitting in the brewery, waiting to be worked on.

On hand, I have 86% Phosphoric acid, (I make a 19/1 solution to adjust the
pH of the sparge water sometimes) and Barkeepers Friend.  There are lots of
big stores around just dying to get my money if none of these will do.  The
lab guy at work might have some Nitric acid, not sure.  Or, maybe, it fixed
itself by now?  I'm not that lucky.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:32:40 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at altrionet.com>
Subject: Re: Regarding Passivation of Stainless Steel


On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 09:30 PM, Bill Tobler wrote:

> At the end of John's post, he said:
>
>
> Any questions?
>
> Me, Me!!  If you do one of the no-no's, like severally scrubbing a 
> used 15
> gallon Volrath pot with a box of steel wool to get years of kitchen 
> grease
> off, what is the best fix?  munch

> On hand, I have 86% Phosphoric acid, (I make a 19/1 solution to adjust 
> the
> pH of the sparge water sometimes) and Barkeepers Friend.
> Bill Tobler

Easiest, quickest, safest: Green Scrubby and Barkeepers Friend.

John Palmer
john at howtobrew.com
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing



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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:31:34 +0200
From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za>
Subject: Less Sour Gueuze

Any idea how a soured beer can end up becoming less sour over time. The last
few bottles of my once puckering gueuze attempt taste more like a lager.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg



Confidentiality Warning
=======================
The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation
are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone
other than the addressee is strictly prohibited.



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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:08:24 -0500
From: "Dan Gross" <degross at starpower.net>
Subject: RE: Rochefort 8 Cloning contest

I would like to thank Herman Holtrop for posting the results of the
Rocherfort 8 cloning contest in such detail.  I can't wait to try it!

Dan Gross
Olney, MD



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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:16:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Charter.net

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

I have been written by a few charter.net members who have
complained that their Digest has suddenly been cut off. I
am posting this in the hopes that at least one of you are
reading via the Web in the interim as I cannot email you
from HBD.org. 

Please complain to charter.net. I can receive mail from you;
however, when the Digest server (hbd.org 66.166.164.98) attempts
to connect to charter.net, their servers time out and we cannot
deliver the Digest. This has been going on for at least the past
several days. The specific message we receive back, with the
subscribed email addresses removed, is pasted below. Tke that
message to your ISP and have them fix their problem. If they are
blocking VCovad dialups, inform them that the range
66.166.164.97 through 11.166.164.102 are static and have been
since 2000.

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:16:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Charter.net

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

I have been written by a few charter.net members who have
complained that their Digest has suddenly been cut off. I
am posting this in the hopes that at least one of you are
reading via the Web in the interim as I cannot email you
from HBD.org. 

Please complain to charter.net. I can receive mail from you;
however, when the Digest server (hbd.org 66.166.164.98) attempts
to connect to charter.net, their servers time out and we cannot
deliver the Digest. This has been going on for at least the past
several days. The specific message we receive back, with the
subscribed email addresses removed, is pasted below. Take that
message to your ISP and have them fix their problem. If they are
blocking Covad dialups, inform them that the range
66.166.164.97 through 11.166.164.102 are static and have been
since 2000.

Attached SMTP connect error message follows

Feb 26 07:55:16 brew sendmail[29595]: AAA21147: to= ... ,
delay=4+07:42:36, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, relay=mail.charter.net.,
stat=Deferred: Connection timed out with mail.charter.net.


- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:08:32 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE: Cynmar Corp.


Hi all,

	Michael Hartsock asks about experiences ordering
from Cynmar Corporation, a scientific equipment company
in Illinois.  I've dealt with them a couple of times, with
complete satisfaction.  The prices were great, the website
ordering went well, and the equipment arrived in good shape
in short order.  Their prices on pH meters seem lower than
most other places.  The hydrometers they sell seem more
accurate than the cheaper HB shop models, but I'm too lazy
to make up calibrating solutions to be sure.  Be warned that
the hydrometer/thermometer combo that they offer is too long
to be used with most sample tubes, at least to measure finishing
gravity.

	Their Brewer's Catalog is great fun.  I highly recommend
the outfit.

			Paul Shick
			Cleveland Hts, Ohio




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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:20:54 -0500
From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Cynmar

Mike asked about buying from Cynmar corporation.

I have purchased 2L Erlenmeyer flasks, magnetic stir bars, and test tube
brushes from them. Cheap, quick, easy, and they don't have a minimum order
as far as I can tell.

I have not bought any hydrometers from them, but the quality of what I have
purchased has been very good.

Hope this helps,
Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN; State of Franklin Homebrewers
http://hbd.org/franklin
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:45:36 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Monitoring bottle conditioning

A few digests ago, Jeff Renner posted a suggestion for a convenient way to 
monitor the progress of bottle-carbonation.  He suggested filling a clear 
plastic pop bottle with beer while bottling in regular glass bottles, to 
allow checking the progress of battle-carbonation by the "squeeze test".  A 
week ago, I bottled a batch of Biere de Garde, and I followed Jeff's 
suggestion.  I can now report that, in addition to checking carbonation 
progress by squeezing the plastic bottle, one can also easily check on the 
precipitation of yeast, and the clearing of the beer.  Be sure to keep the 
test-bottle in the dark.

Cheap and easy.  Thanks, Jeff.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:14:25 -0500
From: "Gilbert Milone" <gilbertmilone at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guinness Bottles w w w w widgets

To sanitize the widgets, you can remove them from the bottle and soak them 
in iodophor.I have yet to bottle a beer with them, but I have taken them out 
of bottles.
 -Gil




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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:17:33 -0800
From: Scott Perfect <perfect at marzen.llnl.gov>
Subject: Guiness Bottles; unfair competition

A couple of thoughts on the recent discussion about recycling Guinness widgets:

The widget is not a panacea for great head - the recipe and brewing procedures

are the first place to focus.

The second thought is that this is a good time to mention Jeff Renner's

"pocket beer engine," - a syringe used to shoot a stream of beer into

a glass of beer in order to de-gas and raise the head. You can clean and

re-use the syringe easily.

As long as we're all in this humorous mood:

Steve's recent recommendation of the text "Brewing Yeast & Fermentation"

by Quain & Boulton has made me realize that we have another category of

unfair competition - the guys with the $4K libraries.  Shall we ban him?

Keep smiling, Bill!

Scott A. Perfect
San Ramon, CA





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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:33:27 +0000
From: "Bret Morrow" <bretmorrow at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DIMS (Drop In Manifold System)


Brian Lundeen ask:

A DIMS, or Drop In Manifold System, which as the name suggests, is lowered
through the mash after conversion for runoff. Anyone in here actually using
one of these?

I answer:

Yep, I have used this type of system off-n-on from my first solo all grain 
batch about 10 years ago.  I use a slotted copper system soldered from 
regular 1/2" copper & fittings.  It has 3 arms that rest on the bottom of 
the mash tun and go into a single copper pipe up and over the side of the 
mash tun.  The copper pipe continues down the outside of the mash tun to 
well below the level of the mash & terminates into a barbed hose connector.  
I really like the system and have used it when somebody I brew with forgot 
to put the stainless steel screen into the boiling kettle.  Funny how that 
happens occasionally.

Cheers,
Bret Morrow





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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:38:06 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: liquid quick disconnects (Sedam)

In HBD 4180, Marc Sedam asks about a source of 1/2-inch QD 
connectors.  Gilmour Corp. has a very nice line of brass QDs with garden 
hose threads.  To use them, you will need 1/2-inch hose-barb-to-garden-hose 
adapters available from Home Depot.  I use these extensively in my all 
grain rig.

The part numbers of interest are as follows (first character is a zero).

      09QC               set of one male and one female connector
      09QCF              female connector only
      09QCM              male connector only
      09QSRBAG   bag of three replacement seals for the female connector

Contrary to what one might expect, fluid flow must be out of the female and 
into the male for the seal to work.  The female QD screws onto a male hose 
thread, and the male QD screws into a female hose thread.  Use rubber 
washers.  These are excellent quality parts.

You can order the items, as well as replacement parts, from Gilmour by 
calling 1-800-852-2723 .    If you want to see what you're buying before 
becoming committed, ask for a catalog.

Dave in Bel Air,MD



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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:49:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: electric vs. lp, RIMs Design

>From: mailto:andrew_avis at hotmail.com

Drew Avis discusses costs:

>Obviously, cost is not the best reason to switch to
>electric!

When figuring in costs, do not forget the cost of
galoline and time to get the propane tank filled.

Convenience, silence, and the ability to use plastic
kettles, etc are the reasons I use electric.

It also helps that I can build all of the circuitry
and wiring myself.
- ----------------------------------

In HBD# 4180, Mark Vernon asks "Question for the RIMs
>brewers here, what is 
>the location of
>your temp probe?"

I have the temp probe in the mash tun, about 1/4 of
the way up from the bottom.  I have found that the
heated recirculating liquor takes quite a while to
flow down through the mash and affect the temp probe.

The first time I used the equipment, I kept increasing
the recirculation liquor temperature, then suddenly
the mash temp shot up too high as the liquor finally
reached the temp probe.

Now, I have confidence in my HERMS, I know that if the
HLT temp is 10 degrees F. higher than the desired mash
temperature target, that I can relax and have faith in
the proccess.

I can be sure that the heating coil that is immersed
into the HLT liquor is surely transfering heat into
the mash. Do I worry about over temperature and hot
spots - no no no, because I am using HERMS.

I can only suggest that you RIMS people give it a try
and see how it goes. Why worry about hot spots, temp
probes at outflow, inflow, wherever, when with the
HERMS, just set your HLT temperature 5-10 degrees
above mash target, and like magic everything falls
into place?



=====
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:44:56 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Grist/Water raito & False bottoms

In HBD 4180, Bill Tobler, who runs a HERMS system, asks whether or not to 
count the water under the false bottom when figuring the grist-to-water ratio.

It seems to me that what we're talking about here is "dilution".  And since 
Bill is recirculating his mash liquid, all of the water is "in play" all 
the time.  So all of the water counts.

But for what it's worth, I just did a batch of low-gravity (for me) Wit, 
and I used my usual 8 gallons of water, even though I only had 19 pounds of 
grain.  That's a ratio of almost 1.7 quarts-per-pound.  I did that because 
it takes 8 gallons to cover the temperature probe in my Sabco converted-keg 
mash tun.  The result, so far as I can tell, was quite satisfactory.  I got 
the usual, and very constant, 80 percent extraction efficiency, based on 
the predicted and achieved original gravities.

So I'm not convinced it's worth worrying about.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:11:12 -0600
From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc at eriecoast.com>
Subject: Water

This question is for A.J. DeLange. I am having trouble getting any
information for free from my local Rural Water supplier. I did get the
following info. can you help me out with this?
Calcium 36 mg/l
Magnesium 7.5 mg/l
Alkylinity  85 mg/l
hardness 122/mg/l
I am talking to a person at the nearest office where she says they just add
chlorine. She called the lab at the water treatment plant but she wouldn't
let me talk to them or give me their number. So much was lost in the
translation.   Also, are chloramines removed by a charcoal filter?
Thanks
Patrick
Litchfield Ohio




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