HOMEBREW Digest #4193 Wed 12 March 2003

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  RE: DCL yeasts (Brian Lundeen)
  Several very bitter beers ("Limosani, Peter")
  Hop plants ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Chandler, AZ water analysis ("Mike & Kim Walker")
  warm and dead (Jeff Renner)
  Increasing Bitterness (Joe Screnock)
  2-Liter Soda Bottles and Pressure Limits (rhostler)
  National Homebrew Competition ("Gary Glass")
  Hydrometer correction ("Greg Remake")
  The Dead Horse rides again (can you beat that?) (John)
  Copper and yeast (Bill Tobler)
  2003 Maltose Falcons Mayfaire (aka the 24th) ("Beechum, Drew")
  RE: Greed ("Jimmy Jams")
  Free Yeast (Stephen Johnson)
  Care and cleaning of plastic (Rod Tussing) (Stuart Lay)
  Comments on first all-grain procedure (John Palmer)
  hawaii (ensmingr)
  Headspace ("Kessenich, Michael")
  overcarbed wee heavy (Randy Ricchi)
  re: 1st All Grain Batch Procedure (Ben Hanson)
  RO Water ("A. J. delange")
  Re: Dry Hopping Lagers (by way of Jeff Renner)
  Re: Chili Beer (Michael Hartsock)
  re: Refractometers and Hydrometers (Brew Man 333)
  foaming stout woes ("John Misrahi")
  Re: CAP and Jeff Renner (Bill Wible)
  Frozen Grain Bill (Micael Mullins)
  ProMash Greed!!!!!! ("Eric R. Theiner")
  RE: TMS ("Doug Hurst")
  CABA rule changes (long) (Brian Lundeen)
  =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chili_beer?= ("=?iso-8859-1?Q?Larry_Bristol?=")

* * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:19:58 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: DCL yeasts Steve Alexander writes: > DCL thinks homebrewing is about making cheap beers and that > HBers certainly wouldn't notice the 'subtle' differences > between two different lager or ale strains since we just brew > infected cheap swill from kits. > > I surely wish that Lallemand had the same range of yeasts in > dry form. They certainly appraise the HB market more accurately. Well, I have to question Lallemand's commitment to brewing yeast in general. This current renaissance of dried yeast seems to have eluded either their attention or their interest. As for DCL, hey, we knew they were British. ;-) Clearly, a concerted effort in modifying their attitude toward homebrewers world wide would seem to be called for. I believe that the AHA can, and should, take the lead role in this. They represent many thousands of homebrewers, and their words should carry a little more weight than a few emails from disgruntled homebrewers scattered here and there. At the same time, perhaps the AHA could be doing more in the other direction, namely encouraging homebrewers to try out this new generation of dried yeasts. As long as the perception remains that serious brewers will only use liquid yeasts, and dried yeasts will just end up under the plastic lid of a kit, I don't see that competitive factor driving new developments in packaging on either side of the fence. Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:37:51 -0500 From: "Limosani, Peter" <Peter.Limosani at FMR.COM> Subject: Several very bitter beers I've searched the archives, but searching on 'bitter' or the like produces a lot of documents and I couldn't really pinpoint any answers. The last several beers I've produced have been too bitter to drink. Two of them are too bitter to even get a lick of malt flavor. I have a spreadsheet that I use to calculate hops additions using IBU and BU:GU ratios as explained in the book 'Designing Great Beers'. I doubt that I'm over hopping. The quantities are within the range of other recipes I've made. I consider myself to be very impeccable about sanitation. I clean with B-Brite and everything that even hovers near my beer is sanitized with Idophor, boiled or burned with alcohol. I muck with fermenting beer as little as possible. I started using two new techniques about the time the bitterness started. One, I started making 2 liter yeast starters with stirring aeration using the technique I found on the PrimeTab Web site. It appears to make a lot of slurry and fermentations really get going! http://www.primetab.com/yeaststarter.html Two, I bought a regulator and stone and started oxygenating the cooled wort before pitching yeast. I use a $10 oxygen tank from the local hardware store. I bought the gear from an on-line brew shop and follow the directions. I boil the stone to sanitize. Has anyone had bitterness problems traced to either of the above techniques? Maybe wild yeasts are getting in my starter? Maybe the oxygen contains some nasties? Maybe there's something else I'm missing? I know I can eliminate one technique and then the other, but I want to avoid dumping any more beer, so any thoughts from the group are greatly appreciated! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:56:02 -0800 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: Hop plants George/Ludwig {Bluestar792 at netscape.net} asked: >Where can I buy hops plants? I would like to grow my own. I have found a good deal of information (and a good source for those in the US) at http://www.freshops.com/ For those in Canada who do not wish to go through the hassles and cost of phyto-certification (due to disease concerns), a few varieties are available (Cascade, Hallertauer, Mount Hood, Nugget and Willamette) mail order from Richters' Herbs [www.richters.com]. They are small plants, not rhizomes, and will not produce the first year. Hoppy Brewing.... Steve Dale-Johnson Brewing at 1819, 298 (mi) Rennerian Vancouver area, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:58:46 -0700 From: "Mike & Kim Walker" <walkermik at earthlink.net> Subject: Chandler, AZ water analysis I received the following numbers from the City of Chandler Water Quality department. Calcium = 73 mg/L Magnesium = 27 mg/L Bicarbonate = 200 mg/L Sulfate = 130 mg/L Sodium = 200 mg/L Chloride = 291 mg/L Hardness (as CaCO3) = 290 mg/L Alkalinity (as CaCO3) = 200 mg/L pH = 7.59 A quick review of the numbers shows high levels of Bicarbonate, Sodium & Chloride. Would the best course of action be dilution w/distilled water to bring the Sodium & Chloride concentrations down? Thanks, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:28:19 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: warm and dead Brewers In attempting to draw an analogy, I wrote >There's a rule among EMTs that no one is dead until they're cold and >dead. A similar rule applies here - never throw out a beer because >you think it might be bad. Wait until it's old and bad (unless it's >clearly infected). It may ferment out just find, and even if it >doesn't taste great when it's finished fermenting, it may age out to >be better. Wil Kolb and Bruce Carpenter both caught this brain lapse and have pointed out that it's "no one is dead until they're WARM and dead." It applies in the case of near drowning and/or hypothermia. A patient may be very cold and have no apparent vital signs but upon warming will revive. They put it better than this but that's the idea. Thanks Wil and Bruce for the backup. I should stick to beer, not medicine. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:54:46 -0600 From: Joe Screnock <hts at essex1.com> Subject: Increasing Bitterness Greetings to you all. I have a problem which I don't remember being discussed here before, and can't seem to find anything in the archives. I made an ESB this past weekend and shot for an OG of 1.055 to 1.060. I targeted 30 - 35 IBU's for bitterness and think I am right on. However, I overshot my OG and it turned out to be 1.066. The batch is happily bubbling in the primary now, but I'd like to increase bitterness to about 50 IBU's (adding about 20). My plan is to boil 4 cups of water, 2 cups of DME, and 1 oz Goldings (6.8%) for about a half an hour. My IBU chart tells me this should give me about 20 IBU's. I'd then add this to the secondary when I rack it. My question is this: Will this give me the desired results? I know that hop utilization changes with an increase in OG (over 1.050), but is there a utilization change with 1 oz of hops being boiled in 1 qt of wort (i.e. a high concentration of hops)? I won't complicate this post with the recipe and my thinking when making the recipe because it is kind of a "goulash" batch. I had some of this, and some of that, and some of this over here that needed to be used up. I'm not expecting to win any awards with this particular batch (nor will I try) - I'd just like something very drinkable and I feel that with an OG of 1.066 and "only" 35 IBU's, the result will not be very balanced. Any help - on-line of off - would be appreciated. Joe Screnock [317, 266] AR Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:03:43 -0500 From: rhostler at pcconnection.com Subject: 2-Liter Soda Bottles and Pressure Limits I am planning to make a hard cider from apple juice and my used ale yeast. I plan to add the juice to the yeast after I rack the beer to secondary. I plan to let the cider ferment until I see no more activity then add corn sugar and bottle in 2-liter soda bottles. I have a few questions before I make my first attempt: 1. Will I run into bursting problems using these bottles? 2. What is the maximum pressure these bottles can handle? I read several articles that explained how to make rockets with soda bottles. They recommended keeping the pressure below 90psi. 3. What is the average maximum pressure that glass beer bottles can handle? TIA Richard Hostler In snowy New Hampshire where it's still cold enough to lager in the garage. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:31:03 -0700 From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org> Subject: National Homebrew Competition Hey Everyone, The entry deadline for the First Round of the American Homebrewers Association's 25th Annual National Homebrew Competition (NHC) is quickly approaching, so get ready to send in those entries! Last year we had 3,074 entries, once again making the NHC by far the world's largest homebrew competition! We expect even more entries this year. Due to the growing number of entries, we've added a new "East" region based in Cleveland, OH. Entry Deadline: April 9-18 Judging: April 25-27 See http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/index.html for details, entry forms, site map, etc. We Need Judges and Stewards! If you are interested in judging, contact the judge coordinators listed at http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/judging.html. For entries advancing to the Second Round of the competition, judging and awards ceremony will take place at the AHA National Homebrewers Conference in Chicago, June 19-21, 2003. For details on the conference, see http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/index.html. Once again, the Ninkasi Award winner (for the winningest brewer in the second round of the competition) will be taking home a stainless steel conical fermenter, compliments of Beer, Beer, & More Beer. Also, for AHA members, don't forget to vote in the AHA Board of Advisors election! Ballots will be accepted through April 1. We have an excellent line up of candidates this year. You can vote online at http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/election.html. Okay, one last thing. Once again, Lallemand, makers of Danstar yeast, is offering one lucky AHA member a full-paid scholarship to attend the Siebel Institute of Technology's Concise Course in Brewing Technology. See http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for contest details. Cheers & Good Luck in the Competition! Gary Gary Glass, Project Coordinator Association of Brewers 888-U-CAN-BREW (303) 447-0816 x 121 gary at aob.org www.beertown.org Join the American Homebrewers Association today at http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/membership.html. Check out the new AHA Pub Discount Program, http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/pubs.html! Get your entries in for the 25th Annual AHA National Homebrew Competition, entries due April 9-18, 2003 see http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/index.html for details. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:40:16 -0600 From: "Greg Remake" <gmrbrewer at hotmail.com> Subject: Hydrometer correction Hello all, My hydrometer came with correction factors for samples up to 107F, but I'd like to check samples on the fly without cooling them. Are the correction curves standardized, or do they vary with each hydrometer model? If they're standardized, can someone please post the corrections up to mashing temperatures, say up to 160F? If the corrections are not standardized, can I extrapolate the curve (it looks fairly linear in the temperature range provided with the hydrometer)? Thanks for any help, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:44:36 -0800 (PST) From: John <j2saret at yahoo.com> Subject: The Dead Horse rides again (can you beat that?) Well, I thought I would have a couple of days off last week so I planned I would brew my long delayed McSorley's Black and Tan (From North American Clone Brews) The smack pack were a little old so I smacked them right away, I had all the grains, the crush went fine and then I got called back to work (where are all the unemployed clamoring for jobs?). Now I had to mash, sparge and brew across three days in the wee hours of the evening. Had a good mash, was only one point below the o.g. set the mash aside until the next day. Did the hour boil, added the preboiled cool water to top up the wort, chilled in a cold running water bath. The smack packs had a little pressure in them and when the wort temperature went below 75deg (f) I pitched them. After 72 hours I had no pressure in my fermenter. I pitched new yeast and had fermentation within 12 hours. My question is this: I could not replace the Irish Ale yeast (wyeast 1084) from the limited resources of the local liquor store so I pitched a generic dry canadian ale yeast. I wonder if anyone can tell me what differences in flavour, body, etc I might expect from this substitution. I generally use dry yeasts for my ales so I am not familiar with what the wyeast might have provided to the brew. Thanks John S. In the northern most of the Duluths "Absent hypocrasy none of our great institutions: Political, Cultural, Religious and Commercial could not co exist with each other and would probably fail of their own contradictions." ___________________________________________________________ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:10:58 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Copper and yeast I've been having some fermentation problems lately, like the ferment quitting early. I just brewed a Helles the other day, and when I blew out the Star San from the counterflow chiller and post chiller, (20 feet of 3/8 copper tube in a cooler of ice) I noticed the Star San had a green tint. Not good. I caught a sample to check gravity, then boiled it for a few minutes and put it in a 4 ounce sample bottle and gave it to our lab guy to run a Copper. He just called and said it had 16 PPM Cu. Now, for some reason, I seem to remember that anything over 1 PPM is bad for the yeast. I sure could use some direction here. We run Cu samples on a regular basis at work, and he tested by Atomic Absorption, so I believe the results. Thanks in advance. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:25:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Beechum, Drew" <Drew.Beechum at disney.com> Subject: 2003 Maltose Falcons Mayfaire (aka the 24th) Brewers, The Maltose Falcons are happy to announce the arrival of the 24th Annual Maltose Falcons Mayfaire This year's new style addition should be welcome to all the hopheads, the vaunted Double IPA! (See the full guidelines at our website.) The BOS Winner will receive a statuette of the famous bird, "Hashell Dammit!" Entries are due between April 1st and April 17th. 3 bottles and $6 per entry Results of this competition are used in the Sierra Nevada California Homebrew of the Year Award. Full details and online entry at http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ Good Luck! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:50:35 -0500 From: "Jimmy Jams" <jimmyjams at stribmail.com> Subject: RE: Greed Dear Wayne Holder AKA Zymie AKA Brewer With A Thick Wallet, When you get a chance, could you look up self-righteous? Thanks, Jim James Get your free Web-based E-mail at http://www.startribune.com/stribmail Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:48:13 -0600 From: Stephen Johnson <sjohnson3 at comcast.net> Subject: Free Yeast A quick update: Despite the recent online battle about dried yeast between Bill Wibble and the rest of the homebrewing world, Bill was true to his word of offering free dried yeast to anyone who wanted it. The day after he made that offer on the HomeBrew Digest, I e-mailed him and asked him to send me some free yeast, requesting some of the Danstar yeasts in particular. He sent me a packet of Danstar Nottingham yeast that I received today. Cost him .60 for the stamp, and probably another .50 for the bubble wrap mailer, and the pre-sale cost of the yeast. This all happened while he was moving his shop to a new location in Malvern, PA. Thanks, Bill, you are a gentleman. After I use the yeast, I'll send you a bottle of the English Ale I brew with it and you can tell me if it is phenolic or not... Steve Johnson, Music City Brewers Nashville, TN Vote for Chuck Bernard and Brian Cole for the AHA BOA! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:38:19 -0800 From: Stuart Lay <zzlay at yahoo.com> Subject: Care and cleaning of plastic (Rod Tussing) Hi -- There's been some discussion of Stainless CC's and US Plastic's tanks as an alternative. Also, how Rod asked how to clean a plastic CC without scratching. I've been using a Minibrew 8.5 gallon plastic CC for a year now and have really enjoyed it. Cleaning is a snap. As soon as I'm done kegging a batch, I rinse it out using warm water and a teflon-safe scrubber made by Skilcraft, a Scrub-eez. I find these near the mops or the sponges in local supermarkets. They clean effectively and do not scratch the plastic. After cleaning, I fill the fermenter with Star San, let sit for five minutes, then drain back into the seven gallon plastic bucket (my first fermenter). I'm able to reuse the Stan San at about six times before it turn cloudy. On brew day while boiling, I run the Stan San through the fermenter again. After pouring the solution in, I take a clean Scrub-eez and use it to wet the sides, top rim, and top thoroughly with sanitizer. Put the lid back on and let it sit for five to ten minutes. Then I drain the bulk of the solution back into the former fermeter through the racking valve to sanitize it, and then the remainder through the bottom dump valve. Wait twenty minutes. Then I take 3 liters of boiling water and rinse all surfaces and drain again. The brew day process may seem involved, but it goes easily between hop additions and works effectively...I haven't had any problems with infections. The only thing I'd change about the Minibrew would be a way to lift the CC out of its stand without removing the ranking port, but oh well... BTW -- I'm not affiliated in anyway with any of the manufactures listed above, yadayadayada. stuart Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:42:28 -0800 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at altrionet.com> Subject: Comments on first all-grain procedure In Digest #4192 Michael asked for comments on his proposed procedure for his first all-grain brew. In general it looks good, but I do need to point out a couple issues. Step 1: Grain crushing: Okay. Step 2: Pre-heating the mash tun: Good idea, but it is much easier to heat about 2 gallons to boiling, pour it in, swirl it around, let it sit and then dump it. Transferring 7 gallons to and fro is asking for trouble. Strike temperature matches what I would calculate. Step 3: Strike volume: Okay. Step 4: Adding the Grist to the Water: No, it is better for the enzymes if you either a) Add water slowly to the grist, or b) Add all the grain quickly to the water. But considering the strike water temperature is only 163F it is not that big a deal. (but your emphasis seems wrong). Step 5: Readying the Sparge water: No, do not add gypsum to your sparge water to attempt to adjust the pH! It does not work that way. Gypsum (actually the Calcium component) and magnesium-containing salts adjust the *mash pH* by participating in a chemical reaction with the malt phytin to release hydrogen ions, and thus lower the pH. Sparging is not the time to be doing this. If your water is alkaline, you are better off adding a couple tablespoons of dark malt extract to your sparge water to buffer it, or simply brew a darker beer to begin with. I don't recommend adding acid to your sparge water unless you know just how much to add. Not to blow my own horn, but please read Chapter 15--Understanding the Mash pH before attempting to adjust your brewing water. (www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html) Step 6: Checking for conversion: Not really necessary, especially if you are doing an all-malt brew without any starchy adjuncts like flaked corn, torrified wheat, or oats. I haven't checked for conversion in years. Step 7: Recirculation: Hmmm, I have never had recirculation/clearing take 15 minutes. Maybe 5 or 6 but not 15. You should only have to recirculate a few quarts, 2 gallons at the very most. Step 8 and 9: Sparging Proceure: Okay. Although in my next edition I am really going to recommend that everyone batch sparge instead of continuous/fly sparge. It's a lot easier to coordinate, especially for a first brew. see www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/HTB_update.pdf Step 10: Stopping the Sparge: Okay, but batch sparging makes this easier because you don't have to check the runnings, you just collect the amount you want to boil. Hope this helps, best of luck! John John Palmer john at howtobrew.com www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 02:10:34 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: hawaii Any HBD'rs in Hawaii? I'll be on Oahu from May 8-11 and the Big Island from May 11-17. Want to hook up? Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:01:54 -0600 From: "Kessenich, Michael" <Michael.Kessenich at deg.state.wi.us> Subject: Headspace If a person was to buy a 12 gallon conical fermentor could he ferment 5.5 gallon batches in it? Would the excess headspace cause any problems? Too cold to brew outside in the winter. Mike in Madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:10:39 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us> Subject: overcarbed wee heavy Greg (dropthebeer at hotmail.com) Just do like your email address says and drop the beer into a pitcher to de-carb it before pouring into your glass and drinking. That's about all you can do at this point. If you take the caps off and re-cap, you're not going to diminish the carbonation much, because the CO2 is at equilibrium throughout the bottle. You would only be releasing the little bit of gas in the headspace. When you re-capped, the CO2 in the beer would evolve out until the headspace pressure was in equilibrium with the liquid, and you'd still probably have gushers. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:13:19 -0500 From: Ben Hanson <bhanson at rica.net> Subject: re: 1st All Grain Batch Procedure Only one hint that I remember still from the first couple of all grain batches: The time frames will always sneak up on you for which you need large quantities of hot water ready. I have a very slow electric stove, and need to anticipate those times pretty far in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:25:57 +0000 From: "A. J. delange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: RO Water In response to Trevor White's question: I used to start with RO water and build up to whatever was appropriate for the style I was breweing. In fact my well water is pretty good for most anything except Pilsners and one day it dawned on me that I could get a profile very close to that of Pilsen by using 3 parts RO water to 1 part well water and that's how I do that style. Water pH doesn't matter at that level of dilution so all I go for is the sulfate and calcium content (which I do check for each brew). A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:55:54 -0500 From: "Horzempa, Jack" <horzempa at drs-fsc-comm.com> (by way of Jeff Renner) Subject: Re: Dry Hopping Lagers Russ Kruska enquired about dry hopping a lager and there were several posts from folks recommending that he not dry hop his lager. In private e-mails to Jeff Renner (one of the posters not recommending dry hopping) I discussed my experiences with dry hopping Pilsners and CAPs (which were all favorable by my taste buds). Jeff encouraged me to post those experiences so below are extracts from the e-mails that I sent Jeff. I have brewed numerous batches (maybe 20 batches?) of Bohemian Pilsners based upon a recipe that Ray Daniels posted on the All About Beer website. He called his recipe Perfect Pilsner. In my humble opinion it is truly a perfect Pilsner and he calls for dry hopping with Saaz hops within his recipe. I will freely admit that I am not a certified (or non-certified) beer judge but the resulting beers from this recipe are by my taste buds very good to excellent. They do not taste in any way grassy or vegetative (or weedy as Steve Alexander describes it). I have also brewed numerous (about 15?) batches of CAP based upon Jeff Renner's recipe. Since I am so fond of dry hopping my Bohemian Pilsners, I also dry hop my CAPs as well (with Hallertauer Mittelfruh) to good effect. Again, I do not perceive grassy/vegetative/weedy tastes or aromas. One of my favorite commercial Pilsners is Tuppers Hop Pocket Pils brewed by the Old Dominion Brewing Co. in Ashburn, VA. This beer was 'voted' by Michael Jackson as the best beer in America. It turns out that this beer is dry hopped, see description copied below: Commercial Description: Tuppers' Hop Pocket Pils is made via a complex hopping schedule which includes dry hopping for weeks over whole-flower Saaz and Mt. Hood hops. Also used are Saaz, Mittelfruh, Spalt and Mt. Hood in the kettle. The beer is bottled and keg conditioned which provides very fine carbonation and a fine head. Jeff enquired as to my dry hop 'technique' to which I replied: I pretty much 'mimic' Ray Daniels' procedure: I dry hop within the secondary (a carboy) for a period typically of 5-6 weeks. I also typically use about 1 oz. of pellet hops within a muslin sack which I 'weigh down' with marbles; 1 oz. of Saaz hops for the Bohemian Pilsner and about 1 oz. of Hallertauer Mittelfruh for the CAP. As to the quality of the hops I am uncertain how to qualify that. I typically purchase these hops from Williams Brewing (mail-order; no affiliation) and from physical and aroma perspectives they 'appear' to be fresh (i.e., nice and green with a pleasant aroma). I then made some comparisons of my resulting homebrewed Bohemian Pilsner to commercial products: It is my guess that the presence of dry hop aroma may be 'disturbing' to some folks since it is not a generally accepted practice by the European brewers. At the risk of sounding immodest, I have not tasted a commercially brewed Bohemian Pilsner that I like better than the one I brew. I have tried Pilsner Urquell on numerous occasions (both in bottle and on draft) and I 'say', what's the big deal? I recently purchased a six pack of Czechvar and I also was under whelmed by this beer. Another good local microbrewery is Victory and they make a German Pilsner called Prima Pils. I drink one of these and that is enough for me. I do like the Tuppers Hop Pocket Pils but for me, my homebrewed Bohemian Pilsner is even superior to that product (no offense to Michael Jackson since he thinks it is the best beer in America). Perhaps dry hopped Bohemian Pilsners is an 'acquired' taste, but I must confess that it was not an acquired taste for me. I still remember the first batch of Perfect Pilsner that I brewed (boy, probably 5 years ago) and on my first sip I said "Wow!". Needless to say, I have been pretty much brewing it the same ever since; no sense messing with Perfection :-) I apologize for the length of this posting but I thought that Russ should see (in detail) that there are other opinions on the matter of dry hopping lagers. I also want to give credit to Ray Daniels for his excellent recipe of the Perfect Pilsner. Jack Horzempa King of Prussia, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:33:23 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Chili Beer I have a bland, lifeless ale in the secondary. It lacks malty notes and lacks even more hops. I don't like fruit beers, yet i consider this a good chance to experiement. How many jalepanos (like how many oz or #s) per gallon would make a good chili beer? I want light, spicy notes, nothing overtly "hot". Any ideas? Michael ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:37:52 -0800 (PST) From: Brew Man 333 <brewman333 at yahoo.com> Subject: re: Refractometers and Hydrometers Speaking about Cynmar Corp. in HBD #4190 (Sat 08 March), Kyle Mychajlonka said: > In addition to the above they also have a range of > Hydrometers for various uses (Alcohol, Wine, Specific > Gravity, Brix, Balling, Plato, and even Urine) Urine! Now we can measure the FG of mass-produced domestic lagers! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:49:47 -0500 From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> Subject: foaming stout woes Hi all, I just made my second all grain oatmeal stout, third over all. Every single one foams when the bottles are opened. The beers are definetely not overcarbonated- or dont appear to be once they are in the glass. The first 2 were certainly not infected, and the third seems fine as well , though it is still young and I've had an infection appear a few weeks on before. Anyways, someone told me a large amount of flakes (protein? nitrogen?) can be the cause, or a boil of insufficient vigour. Has anyone else had this problem? The most recent one finished at only 1.022 (OG 1.061) so it could still have a teeny bit left to go, but I think it was done - overdid it on maltodextrin, lactose most likely, mashed ~154F. But the one before finished at 1.015 - not out of line for an oatmeal stout, and the first one was similar. Does this happen to anyone else besides me? I think I am cursed. It doesn't happen to any of my other beers, even some that I overcarbonated through carelessness. OTOH, It tastes good and will still be my official St. Patrick's brew, though I may have to decant the bottles into a pitcher first. john [892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km) "Actually John it uses a very complex algorithm to determine your average time between "Generate" clicks, and from that can it figures out how drunk you are, and what styles of beer you prefer. Obviously, you prefer obscure Belgians!" - Drew Avis Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:00:23 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: CAP and Jeff Renner Speaking of CAP and Jeff Renner, I heard a long time ago that Jeff was writing a Style Series Book on CAP. Any progress? How's that coming, Jeff? I want my copy as soon as it's available! Bill [482.2, 105.9] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:11:04 -0800 (PST) From: Micael Mullins <brewmiker at yahoo.com> Subject: Frozen Grain Bill I am quite sure this was a mistake but I am asking the collective just in case there is some chance I haven't ruined the twenty-plus pounds of grain I purchased last week. I knew I wouldn't have time to brew until next week, so last week, when I had time to visit my LHBS, which is approximately two hours drive away, I bought the needed materials for two belgians, a dark and a saison. Knowing I was two weeks away from brewing, I froze all the ingredients in my freezer. Will this ruin the already milled grains? If so, what effect does freezing have on the malt? Hoping to brew Saturday... Mike in Lapeer, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:22:01 -0500 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude02 at earthlink.net> Subject: ProMash Greed!!!!!! I cannot believe the balls of Jeff Donovan!! To use this forum to sell his product, just to pad his own wallet!! This greed knows no bounds (or no bounds are now known... or no bounding knowers know no, ah, nuts). (this has been a tongue-in-cheek commentary) Rick Theiner Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:58:25 -0600 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: RE: TMS Ok, I'm jumping into the fray on this one. Charles Stewart points out the fact that TMS is running an add in Zymurgy. Clearly, more than anything, this points to the fact that they DO want "onesie - twosie" orders. If not, why would they run the add. If so, then why in conjunction with the running of the add did they raise the price? Someone suggested that they may not maintain a stock of homebrewing size hoppers and that one-off production is too expensive. Surely, when they ran the add, they knew (or hoped) there would be an increase in small orders and would have increased their stock of the pertinent sizes to meet expected demand. The only explanation is that they're trying to exploit a newfound market. Obviously they're in need of a competitor. Anyone out there work in SS fabrication? That's my $0.005 Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:22:25 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: CABA rule changes (long) First of all, let me say that I am a dues paying, card carrying member of both the Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) and the AHA. I am extremely troubled by what I read in the latest edition of the CABA newsletter. The following rule changes were approved by the CABA board to apply to the upcoming Great Canadian Homebrew Conference (GCHC) in April 2003. The GCHC is a first round qualifying event for the AHA National Homebrew Competition. Here is what they wrote verbatim: 1. Only craft-brewed beer, brewed in an amateur fashion, can be entered. Craft-brewed beer, brewed in an amateur fashion, is defined as beer brewed at home (BAH). (no change from the existing rules) 2. Competition among BAH entries is intended to emphasize the brewer's creativity in brewing the competition entry. The use of commercially prepared extract or wort as the sole ingredient in the recipe prior to fermentation is not permitted. The entrant must have performed all of the steps in the brewing process at his/her home setting in the case of BAH entry. 3. All entries must be accompanied with a completed recipe sheet illustrating the "creative" components of the recipe formulation. Recipes of all winning entries may be published, space permitting, in the CABA Times (the newletter). Rationale: The rationale is that brewing beer for a competition requires recipe formulation. Opening a kit and adding the yeast without adding any new ideas or creativity is not meeting the spirit of the competition. The Board plans to have a special edition of the CABA Times devoted to revising these rules so your input will be sought. rule changes came about as a result of a new product called FestaBrew from Magnotta, which is basically sterile wort that only requires the yeast to be pitched. They also state that the rule changes "will apply to the upcoming March in Montreal (MiM) and GCHC competitions for this spring. We then plan to consult the membership on these rule changes over the summer". Well, if that isn't putting the cart before the horse, I don't know what is. This is absolutely something that the membership should have been consulted on before any changes took place. First of all, the Magnotta FestaBrew kits are not appreciably different from other wort-in-a-box kits such as BrewHouse that have been around for years. The BrewHouse kit requires adding back some water and a pH adjustment package, but they are functionally the same concept. Dump in your fermenter and add the yeast. Take that concept far enough, even a pre-hopped extract kit is the same thing, you just need to add more water. At the risk of sounding a bit cynical, I suspect that this has suddenly become an issue because the CABA board is largely based in Toronto Ontario, and Magnotta is a southern Ontario company. But back to the rule changes, the CABA board has no business imposing these rule changes on Canadian brewers. The language of the ruling not only excludes beers made solely from any kind of kit, it can even be interpreted to mean that brewers can not use someone else's recipe verbatim. Go back and re-read the rationale paragraph above and decide for yourselves whether that is a valid interpretation, whether intended by the board or not. I am all for making up your own recipes and brewing from scratch. That's how I've always done it, because I enjoy the creative process. However, I would not presume to tell other brewers that that is how it must be done. People brew for a variety of reasons, some people just want to make beer quickly and easily. They have every right to do that. More importantly, they have every right to have their beers evaluated by trained judges at a competition. Besides the competition side of it, the main benefit of entering competitions is receiving qualified feedback to help people improve in their hobby. There is still a lot that can go wrong outside of the actual "brewing" process. Should these hobbyists not have the right to find out that they are suffering from sanitation problems, or that their fermentation techniques could use improvement? Now, it would be bad enough if the CABA board ruling applied only to events over which they have complete jurisdiction, such as MiM. They have applied it to an event (GCHC) that should fall under the rules set out by the AHA. The AHA has no such specific prohibition against yeast-ready worts. In fact, they specifically state in their rules that the first round entries do not even need to include a recipe. I invite you to read the AHA rules at http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/pdf/03rules_regs.pdf to see if I've missed something. In my opinion, CABA has over-stepped its authority here, and the AHA should flat out tell them, these rule changes can not be applied to the GCHC. If CABA wants to make its own rules, then perhaps the AHA should associate itself with a non-CABA event for Canadian qualification in the future. Disclaimer: These views are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of the executive or members of the Winnipeg Brew Bombers homebrew club. Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:51:21 -0600 (CST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Larry_Bristol?=" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Chili_beer?= On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:46:23 -0800, Jim Bermingham <jbham6843 at netscape.net> ranted: > I have tasted many "Chili Beers" in my time. Some I liked, some not. > Most were too hot to really enjoy. I like spicy food and can set down > with most anyone and hold my own in a pepper eating contest. But why > make a beer that one or too is all you can drink and most people not > even one? > I was fortunate last October to be invited by Larry Bristol, to the > Double Luck Station, for October Fest. Larry and his charming wife > Marsha, did themselves proud, providing about 40 people with great food > and beer. One of the beers Larry served was his Cerveza Chingaquedito > con Chili. Cerveza Chingaquedito con Chili is a tasty beer, flavored > with jalapeno peppers. Since most of the heat from the peppers comes > from its seeds, they were remove so the beer did not inherit a lot of > heat, only the pepper flavor. This beer went great with the Mexican > food it was served with. I think everyone there had the beer with the > Mexican food, including all the wives and girlfriends. Larry did a > little something extra with the peppers to reduce the heat and enhance > the flavor. He told me, but swore me to secrecy and said he would kill > me if I told. Sense I will be seeing him at the Blubonnet in a few > weeks, and the fact that I want to live, and will be wanting another > invitation to his annual October Fest I will not let his recipe out. > With a little encouragement however, he might. And this is somehow related to the musings on Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:33:23 -0800 (PST) by Michael Hartsock <mhartsoc at netzero.com> to wit: > I have a bland, lifeless ale in the secondary. It acks malty notes and > lacks even more hops. I don't like fruit beers, yet i consider this a > good chance to experiement. > > How many jalepanos (like how many oz or #s) per gallon would make a good > chili beer? I want light, spicy notes, nothing overtly "hot". Any ideas? Well, Michael, maybe such an experiment should work out OK; I guess it depends on just how bland and lifeless your ale really is! :-) Using jalapeno peppers does not *HAVE* to result in a lot of heat, and it is really no secret (to those of us who regularly eat the little gems) that the amount of heat can be controlled. Just to prove it is no secret, all you have to do is refer to the recipe for the beer Jim mentioned having at my last Oktoberfest. [I really need to be more careful about who I invite to such things!] It is on my web site at the following URL: http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/recipes/Chingaquedito.html [I also really need to work on shortening these names!] There you will see the following note: "Half and remove the placenta and seeds from 6 large, fresh jalapeno peppers, and add during secondary fermentation." [Note that this is from a recipe for 10 gallons.] OK, maybe there *IS* a secret --- the heat from the jalapeno pepper does not really come from the seeds. It comes from the placenta, the interior "stem" from which the seeds grow and a thin white membrane between the flesh of the pepper and the seed chamber. The seeds are hot merely because they are in close contact to all this for so long. To make a beer with a wonderful jalapeno pepper character, but with absolutely NO HEAT at all, use fresh, whole peppers about 4-6 inches long. Cut them in half (the long way) and remove the placenta and seeds. Soak the remaining flesh in vodka for 24-48 hours (I usually do this during primary fermentation) to remove any heat from the flesh that was in contact with the placenta, and to sanitize them. Put the peppers into a muslin or nylon bag and add them to the beer during secondary fermentation (2-4 weeks). [Drink the vodka; it makes a great martini!] Remove the peppers prior to bottling or kegging the beer. I wonder if there will be any jalapeno pepper beer at the Bluebonnet? [P.S. - Sorry for misspelling the name of the pepper. The digest does not seem to like the "n" with the tilde, claiming it is a non-ansii character. This seems somewhat chauvinistic to me, gringo! <grin>] ===== Larry Bristol Bellville, TX http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 03/12/03, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96