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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: Kessler Brewing (Gunnar Emilsson)
  Re: Reference Books ("Bill Halstead")
  PID controll ("A.J. deLange")
  Igloo Conversion (mpmarus)
  Lallemand Scholarship (Jeremy Lenzendorf)
  Irish Red (Cas Koralewski)
  Re: PID controller & SSR ("Mike Sharp")
  Re: Mash Mixer ("Jack Schmidling")
  Re: all-grain terminology and yeast (Brian Dube)
  Decanting Yeast Starters ("Bob Sutton")
  White Labs yeast spew and dry hop question (Ben Hanson)
  Mash Mixer torque (stencil)
  overnight mashing redux ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Beerjolais nouveau (Jeff Renner)


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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:56:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Gunnar Emilsson <cdmfed_emilsson at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Kessler Brewing

In HBD #4201 Neb Bosworth asks:

>I have a buddy whose last name is Kessler and he had
>found some old ads for
>Kessler ale. I was wondering if anyone out there has
>ever come across a
>clone recipe for a Kessler beer? If so, where might I
>lay my hands on such a
>thing? if such a thing exists.

As you are inquiring about my extinct (twice now)
hometown brewery, I feel compelled to answer. 
Nicholas Kessler established the Kessler brewery in
Helena, Montana in the gold rush days in the early
1870s.  His progeny carried on the brewery which
survived prohibition and lasted until the late 1950s
or 1960s.  It fell the fate of all the regional
breweries in Montana, which included the Highlander
label in Missoula, Butte Sepcial Beer in Butte, and
Great Falls Select (which was the longest lasting
brewery, finally falling extinct in the late 1970s,
although by that time it was being brewed by Olympia
in Tumwater, WA).

In 1984, the Kessler label was revived, albeit by
different parties than the Kessle family.  They brewed
and bottled microbrew in an old warehouse by the train
depot, not in the lovely old Kessler Brewery which
survives to those day on the west end of town as a
warehouse for a local beverage distributor (those
interested in old brewery architecture should visit
it!)  

Kessler the microbrewery brewed some mighty fine
microbeers, both under their own name and under
contract throughot the west.  Sadly, they ran into
hard financial times, changed ownership, gave up the
brewing end of business in favor of "custom" sodas. 
Brewing ceased completely around 2000, and I don't
think the soda is made any more.

Neb asks how to clone Kessler beer.  There are a lot
of answers to that, depending on which product you are
after.  According to my 68-year old uncle, the Kessler
Regional Brewery of the 1950s produced the worst swill
imaginable, and the 1980s microbrewery's products were
way better than what was produced at that time. 
Kessler Microbrewery back in the 1980s and early 1990s
produced outstanding beer with an emphasis on malt
rathter than hops.  I believe they won some medals at
the GABF.  Their Ale No. 77 was the best American
amber I have ever tasted, and their doppelbock rated
right up there with Salvator and Celebrator (IMHO). 
But since your friend is interested in historic beers,
the best microbrew of Kessler I would try to clone
would be their Lorelei Extra Pale, which was based on
an old Nicholas Kessler recipe from pre-prohibition
(there is an excellent old advertising poster for
Lorelei from that era that was used as the label for
the microbrew).

Unfortunately, I don't have the recipe and the brewers
have moved on.  Based on my recollection of its taste,
I would brew a CAP, add perhaps a half or whole pound
of munich to it, and use Hallertau for the flavor
hops.

The one beer of theirs I wish I could replicate was an
amber wheat I bought for my wedding reception in 1990.
 It was unlike any other wheat beer I have ever tried
 - sort of like a Vienna lager brewed with 40% wheat. 
It was indescribably delicious.

Gunnar Emilsson
Helena, Montana





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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 06:54:19 -0500
From: "Bill Halstead" <bbhalstead at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Reference Books


All,

In regard to Steinfillers question about reference books I would certainly 
concur with Mr. Daniels.  Another book that can serve as a good reference 
source, though not as technical nor as in depth as some of the other books 
mentioned, is "The Brewers' Handbook" by Ted Goldammer.  It's 457 pages and 
gives an excellent overview of the commercial brewing process as well as has 
chapters on the U.S. beer market and beer styles.

Bill Halstead
Dallas, Texas






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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:16:04 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: PID controll

The on/off relays in a PID controller can certainly be used to fire the 
SSR's in proportional output mode. As the mechanical relays will fail 
after a ceratain number of operations it's clear that if  you can live 
with a 30 second cycle time a relay will  serve three times as long as 
it would with a 10 second cycle. As a relay breaking only SSR control 
current is stressed a lot less than one interrupting full rated load the 
relay is likely to last quite a while.

Yes it is  possible to kluge up an SCR lamp dimmer to be controlled by 
an analog output. You would obviously need analogue output from your 
controller to do this. Many of the Omega controllers allow you to plug 
any of several kinds of outputs into ther mother board so you might be 
able to get 0 - 5 v or 4-20ma output from the device you have. The next 
trick is to convert the analogue signal to firing angle signals for the 
SCRs and to deliver these signals to the gates of the SCRs whilst 
keeping the control circuit electically isolated. This is not a 
particularly sophisticated circuit but probably not something you'd want 
to do yourself unless you have some experience in such things. I think 
Omega may sell modules that produce gate signals but perhaps only to 
drive their own SCR controls. It's probably worth checking the catalogue.

A.J.



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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:24:11 -0500
From: mpmarus at hotpop.com
Subject: Igloo Conversion

I'm about to make the leap from extract brewing to partial-mash. My
roommate found me a 3qt Igloo cheap at a local discount store. Aha! The
reason it was discounted was, it has no spigot.

Now, I found a copy of Ken Schwarz's presentation from the 1998 AHA
National Conference, and the Appendix has very good instructions for
converting a cooler to a mash tun once the spigot is removed.

So, my question is, do I drill a 7/8" hole in the spigot place and follow
his instructions, or does one of my fellow HBD readers have another (I
hope better!) suggestion?

Mary Johnson
Retriever Brewers
http://www.mj-pg.com/brewers.htm
brewing at [7341, 7.3] Apparent Rennerian

from "Converting All-Grain Recipes to Extract/Partial Mash"

"For the Igloo partial-masher, you'll need an Igloo "Legend" 2 gallon
(7.6L) beverage cooler, a rubber mini-keg bung (available at most homebrew
shops), a 1-1/2" length of 3/8 ID x 1/2" OD vinyl tubing, a 1-1/4" length
of 1/4" ID x 3/8" OD vinyl tubing, a three-foot length of 1/4" OD vinyl
tubing, a pinch clamp, and a Sure-Screen(tm) from Sheaf & Vine (ask your
homebrew supplier or see
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/surescreen.html). This pre-welded rolled
stainless steel screen is sturdy and is ideal for this application. Or,
you can substitute a 5-1/2" length of 3/8" OD
copper/brass/stainless/aluminum tubing crimped shut at one end and drilled
through with 3/16" holes every 1/4" (start 1" from the open end). Also,
any insulated cooler with a 7/8"  diameter spigot hole will work with the
mini-keg bung if you can't find the Igloo Legend. 

1. Remove the factory-installed spigot from the cooler.

2. Remove the hard plastic plug from the bung and install the bung into
the spigot hole, with the large flat end facing inside the cooler. Work
the bung into position so that the groove around the bung "locks" around
the edge of the hole.

3. Insert the open end of the Sure-Screen or copper tube 3/8" into the
open end of the 1/2" OD tubing. This will be a tight fit but that's what
we want.

4. Insert the 3/8" OD x 1/4" ID tubing into the 1/2" OD tubing. Use some
food-safe silicone sealant to lubricate and seal the connection.

5. Insert the 1/4" OD tubing into the 1/4" ID tubing, again using silicone
sealant.

6. Feed the assembly, 1/4" tubing first, through the bung from the inside
of the cooler. Work the assembly in so that the end of the vinyl tubing is
just flush with the end of the bung inside the cooler. Use pliers to
carefully pull the tubing from the outside if you must, gripping only the
1/2" OD tubing, to position the assembly. 

7. The bung will continuously press inward on the layered tubing as well
as on the Sure-Screen or metal tubing, sealing the connections for
leak-free mashing."



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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:48:09 GMT
From: Jeremy Lenzendorf <jlenzendorf at progeng.com>
Subject: Lallemand Scholarship

Hello brewers:
 
 As you may have noticed Lallemand will be sponsoring
the Fourth Annual Lallemand Scholarship. As the lucky 
winner last year I would first like to thank Jean Chagnon,
Gordon Specht and Sigrid Gertsen-Briand of Lallemand for
their sponsorship. I would also like to thank Lyn Kruger
of the Siebel Institute of Technology for a great two
weeks of learning last fall. Especially, I would like to
thank Keith Lemcke of the Siebel Institute of Technology
for choosing my entry at the last NHC!! Also Rob Moline
for facilitating Lallemand's support and helping me
prepare for the Concise Course.
 
Now I would like to encourage anyone who is a member of 
the AHA to go to 
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html
and enter the drawing. You can also get an additional
entry by submitting a ballot for the AHA Board of 
Advisors election. If you aren't a member of the American
Homebrewers Association, a chance at an opportunity like
this is definitely worth joining. You don't have to be an
experienced brewer or have a great setup to win. I had
only been extract brewing for a few years and got lucky,
so can you! As additional encouragement, this will be the
first Concise Course at the new campus at Goose Island
Brewpub, so I'm quite envious of the hands-on
demonstrations that will be available!  So, go enter and
vote for your chance to be the luckiest AHA member at the
25th National Homebrewers Conference!  Good luck!
 
Jeremy Lenzendorf
West Bend, WI



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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:17:56 -0500
From: Cas Koralewski <caskor at buckeye-express.com>
Subject: Irish Red

What BJCP style does "Irish Red Ale" fall into?

Thanks,
Cas




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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:05:09 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: PID controller & SSR

Doug Moyer had a question about a PID controller & SSR

   "I have an Omega 1/16 DIN MICROMEGA Autotune PID
Temperature Controller, model CN77333. This unit's
outputs are both Relay SPDT 5 A at 120. As I
understand it, these are mechanical relays, as opposed
to SSRs. As such is it possible to use this unit to
control a RIMS heater?"

Set the time constant to a value somewhere around 2 seconds, and you should 
be ok with the relays.  You'll need to set up some sort of control voltage 
for the SSR--but that will depend on the SSR.  Wire the control voltage 
through the NO contact of the relay.  The relay is 5A at 120V, but that 
doesn't mean it "puts out" 120v...that's just it's rating.

Relays have a limited life, but it's probably in the hundreds of thousands 
of cycles, so I wouldn't worry too much.

    "I am currently controlling my RIMS heating element
with a dimmer switch with 15A rating...Is there a way that I can hack this 
apart and control it with an analog output?"

I've wondered this myself...I guess it's possible.  The dimmer probably 
turns a variable resistor which provides a voltage to a bridge of some sort 
that controls when the SCR or triac fires.  But your PID doesn't have an 
analog output, so you're probably outta luck.  SSRs aren't all THAT 
expensive.  You might find a suitable one at a scrapyard/surplus store.

Regards,
Mike Sharp




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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:16:58 -0600
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Re: Mash Mixer

>From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc>

>Does anyone know, or care to guess, about how much torque is required (in
>lbs/in) to stir a 10 gallon mash tun?
>I'm looking for a used gearmotor to fit my needs and I've found several but
>I'm not sure if their powerful enough.

Check out my MIXMASHER page http://schmidling.netfirms.com/mix.htm

I use a 10 in/lb motor for my 10 gallon masher but as mentioned in the
article, I would go a little more if I were to do it again.  I have been
using it for years and don't know why or how I ever brewed without it and
never have any problems.  So I am not sure why I said it could use more
power but I must have had some reason.

js

Check out the BAREBONES MALTMILL http://schmidling.netfirms.com/barebone.htm





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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:19:58 -0600
From: Brian Dube <brian.dube at gotgoat.com>
Subject: Re: all-grain terminology and yeast

Thanks for all the replies about runoff and yeast starters.


- --
Brian Dube
Columbia, Missouri 



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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:22:27 -0500
From: "Bob Sutton" <Bob at homebrew.com>
Subject: Decanting Yeast Starters

Decanting will prevent off-flavors from the starter from being carried over.
You may not notice this with a stout or porter, but it is detectable with a
pale ale. Generally I knockout the yeast in the refrigerator for 24 hours
just prior to brew day. They settle out nicely. I decant and leave the yeast
at room temperature about the time I begin to cool the wort. That gives the
yeast 1-2 hours to acclimate to fermentation brewing temperature.

Bob
in the SC foothills
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterday's Technology Today

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Brian Dube asked...
Is it necessary to decant all yeast starters or is this a step used with
lager yeasts? If I'm completely off and my question is confusing, I ask
about lager yeasts because decanting a top-fermenting ale starter before
pitching strikes me as counterproductive.



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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:52:10 -0500
From: Ben Hanson <bhanson at rica.net>
Subject: White Labs yeast spew and dry hop question

Well, I've somewhat re-entered the brewing hobby lately.  I hadn't found 
time since my youngest child was born, but all such things seem to pass. 
 In the past, I had always cultured a starter and made a pitchable 
quantity of yeast, but was interested now in the available 'pitchable 
quantity' packages from White labs or WyYeast, so I ordered the White 
labs for the last two batches of beer I've made.  My question is this, 
Why, in both cases, did the things spew when I opened them, and how do 
you prevent it?  Also, my buddy and I brewed yesterday, and made what 
was intended to be a California Common style beer.  All went well, and 
we nailed the target gravity.  It was a beautiful day, we had lots of 
good food.  The kids played and had fun.  One glitch:  we forgot the 
final hop addition and didn't recognize it until we were chilled and 
ready to pitch the (spewing) yeast.  I've never actually dry hopped a 
beer before, and suddenly intend to.  Can't be any more off style than 
it is if I don't do it.....   Any suggestions on the most sanitary way 
to do this?  Thanks
Ben




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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 19:07:07 -0500
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Mash Mixer torque

Pat Reddy asks
>>Does anyone know, or care to guess, about how much torque is required (in
>>lbs/in) to stir a 10 gallon mash tun?
>>I'm looking for a used gearmotor to fit my needs and I've found several but
>>I'm not sure if their powerful enough.

For a couple of years now I've been agitating mash with a maple
impeller diven by a 3/8-in variable-speed electric hand drill.  The
drill is rated at 3 amps at 115VAC, which makes it less than a half
horse, more than a quarter.  I've never had it wide open.  The
impeller is bandsawed from a 2X3X6 block of maple;  the blades have an
attack of around 30 degrees.  At a depth of about 10 inches and around
75 RPM, there's good circulation and only minimal surface turbulance.
The drill's mounting bracket is bolted directly to the mashtun's
snug-fitting lid, so air pickup apparently is negligible. (I've never
had a batch survive long enough to exhibit stallor.)  If you feel that
the depth of the 10-gal tun will run the viscosity beyond this scale,
Harbor Freight has a 1/2-in drive 7-amp hammer drill - around $25 -
that you probably could stir *dry* grain with.

stencil sends


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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 21:51:02 -0500
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: overnight mashing redux

I posted a few months ago about my overnight mashing experiences with some
Belgian ales I was making.  I mashed kind of low and got a really low final
gravity.  I was concerned that this was due to the overnight mashing, not
just the low temprature, and it made me wonder if overnight mashing was
flawed.

Since then I've overnight mashed a few other times (with no mash out - I
reach mash temperature and go to bed, and let the thing sit all night).
I've had better results because I've mashed at a slightly higher temperature
than I normally would (by just a few degrees higher)

Incidentally the Belgian beers I made at that first overnight mashing have
done well at recent Southeastern competitions, with the two beers taking 3
ribbons in two competitions and receiving high scores overall.  This is not
to say a whole lot, as you probably know if you enter competitions
regularly, but it does say something.

So let me say I'm a believer in overnight mashing again, and I hope to do it
sometime very soon.  I recommend it to anyone wanting to make better use of
their brewing time, but bear in mind that mashing at low temperatures can
really increase your attenuation.

Tom Karnowski
Knoxville TN




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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:49:11 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Beerjolais nouveau

Brewers

How young have you served your beer?  How about five days?

Here's the story, which includes a stupid brewer's trick.

Last evening was our 21st annual pizza party (I have a commercial 
pizza oven in my at-home bakery).  I planned to brew my McGinty's 
Irish-American Red Ale http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3848.html#3848-21 
for it (but with half the chocolate malt).  It's a great pizza beer - 
easy drinking but interesting enough for beer fans.

But starting a month ago, on three consecutive Mondays (my day off 
when I brew), it's been too cold to brew, even in the garage - 
afternoon highs in the teens and single digits or lower in the 
mornings at the beginning of brewing.

Besides, I had a nice British-style bitter that would work fine, even 
thought it's perhaps a little bitter for a pizza party.  I had brewed 
7.75 gallons (30 liters) six weeks ago for an occasion, but we ended 
up drinking only two gallons from the five gallon Corney I had racked 
from the Sankey.  I'd been drinking from the Sahkey, so I had a 
little less than five gallons split between the Corney and the Sankey.

So I did brew the McGinty's last Monday and kegged it in a Sankey on 
Friday morning, sealed it and put in the cellar at 50F, figuring I'd 
let it finish fermenting the last point or two and clear.  It was a 
little hazy, but the WhiteLabs new Essex (which I provided from 
England) cleared fast.  I planned to carbonate it later.  Even 
thought it would be too late for the pizza party, we're having house 
guests (my sister and brother-in-law) in a few weeks and they would 
help drink it up.

Then yesterday at 5:00 PM, the pizza dough was made, the oven was 
hot, the guests were coming in an hour, so I figured I'd better rack 
the rest of the bitter from the Sankey to the Corney.  I planned to 
push it out of the Sankey with CO2 and stop when it started to gurgle 
to leave the yeasty sediment behind.  I'd done it a hundred times. 
But, when I was done and was disconnecting the lines, I notices there 
was a lot of yeasty foam on the connectors.  So I checked the beer in 
the Corney - it was as thick as a milk shake!  The whole keg full! 
There must have been a lot more yeast in the bottom of that Sankey 
than I realized.

So here it was, an hour before 40 thirsty people arrived to eat salty 
pizza and drink my beer, and it looked like they were going to need a 
spoon for the ale.

But wait!  I had a quarter barrel of flat, slightly hazy five-day-old 
Irish-American Ale.  And one hour to go.  Quick!  I hooked up the 
CO2, cranked it up to 35 psi, laid the Sankey on its side and rolled 
it back and forth.  In ten minutes, I started turning the pressure 
down until it was at 10 psi.  Drew a sample.  Perfect!

The McGinty's was a hit.  No one minded the haziness, and it was 
probably better choice than the bitter would have been.

So, five days old.  And it tasted pretty damn good.  Can you top that?

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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