HOMEBREW Digest #4210 Wed 02 April 2003

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  Kosher Salt In The Brewing Process (Fred and Sue Nolke)
  Autolysis - Treacle (Hayes Antony)
  Yeast Source needed ("Doug A Moller")
  Barley Wine Fermentation Curve (Hayes Antony)
  Erdinger Dunkel Weiss (Michael Hartsock)
  Buffering ("A.J. deLange")
  Recipe (Michael McGuire)
  St. Louis County Water analysis ("Reddy, Pat")
  step mashing 60/70 rests ("Reddy, Pat")
  Re: Yeast for Oktoberfest (Jeff Renner)
  Words (was things) ("-S")
  Re comments on Mineral additions  by Fred L Johnson ("Cave, Jim")
  RE: does anyone have a Sabco Brew Magic?? (Ted Teuscher)
  water chemistry (Marc Sedam)
  Hops in Pots ("Jay Spies")
  RE:  solenoids: Normally CLosed ("Mike Sharp")
  RE: solenoids and mash mixers ("Mike Sharp")
  Re: Fermenter Recirculation #5 - Bad Idea (David Towson)
  Re; Fermenter recirculation #5 - Bad Idea (David Towson)
  Re: Water From Chillers ("Ross")
  mixmasher (aa8jzdial)
  what really smells... ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  final degree of fermentation Wyeast 3068 (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at AkzoNobel.com>
  17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition (Mark Garthwaite)
  Sam's Superstore. (ensmingr)
  Hops in Pots ("Mark Kellums")
  Buffered systems ("Dave Burley")
  Brewers Workshop 4.0 ("William Plotner")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:33:28 -0900 From: Fred and Sue Nolke <fnolke at alaska.net> Subject: Kosher Salt In The Brewing Process The discussions of water chemistry reminded me of Morton Kosher salt as a beer ingredient. I came accross a brewster in one of the "Thames Valley" breweries using it... and her beers were pretty exceptional, primarily because of some creative, for England, late hopping. Any ideas about the effect of a pinch of NaCl added to the kettle with the FWH hops? Thanks, Fred Nolke - Anchorage Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:39:07 +0200 From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za> Subject: Autolysis - Treacle The flavour descriptor that I have found useful for autolysis is meaty or brothy (like a cup of Bovril - do you get Bovril in the US). I have noticed that those porters where I add a bit too much treacle tend to have a similar smell, and are often described as exhibiting autolysis aromas. Is this simply the smell of fermented treacle, or does treacle encourage autolysis? Ant Hayes Johannesburg Confidentiality Warning ======================= The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone other than the addressee is strictly prohibited. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 06:18:48 -0600 From: "Al Boyce" <aboyce at mn.rr.com> Subject: THE 2003 UPPER MISSISSIPPI MASH-OUT! THE 2003 UPPER MISSISSIPPI MASH0OUT! Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota The Minnesota Home Brewers Association and the St.Paul Homebrewers Club announce the second annual 2003 Upper Mississippi Mash-Out Homebrew Competition for all BJCP Categories (including Cider and Mead) in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota (A qualifier for the High Plains Homebrewer of the Year award!) April 11-20, 2003: Entries Accepted (All BJCP categories, including Cider and Mead) May 1-3, 2003: Judging (NEW! Beds for Judges program) May 2, 2003: Twin Cities Pub Crawl (9pm) starting from Radisson Metrodome May 3, 2003: Blessing of the Bock at Town Hall Brewery (6pm) May 3, 2003: Awards Ceremony at Summit Brewing (8pm) Information and Online registration for beers and judges available at: http://www.mnbrewers.com/mashout Judging will be held at the Radisson Metrodome: http://www.radisson.com/minneapolismn_metrodome Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:52:59 -0600 From: "Doug A Moller" <damoller at intergate.com> Subject: Yeast Source needed Hi, I am looking for a Bavarian wheat yeast CL930 I used to get it from Brewers Resource. Does anyone know how to get some. Are there any other yeast sources other than the 2 in all the shops? Doug Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:00:50 +0200 From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za> Subject: Barley Wine Fermentation Curve I brewed my first barley wine two weeks ago. It has fermented (using DCL S-23 at 18C) as follows: Start: 26,5P 1 week: 14P 10 days: 12P 14 days: 9,5P Promash predicts that it will get down to 3,5P, although quarter gravity, i.e. 6,6P seems a bit more likely. The Classic Series Barley Wine book just says that these fermentations are drawn out. Does this fermentation curve look typical? How low do these things go (it was 100% lager malt based - 65C mash temp)? Ant Hayes Johannesburg Confidentiality Warning ======================= The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone other than the addressee is strictly prohibited. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 06:13:30 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: Erdinger Dunkel Weiss I tasted this the other night, and immediately fell in love. What I'm looking for is info about how to approximate the wonderful flavors of this brew. In other words, any idea about the percent of wheat malt, the other base malts to use, what percentage of crystal, chocolate, etc? What sort of hopping schedule and what varieties? Is the bottling strain for the secondary fermentation the same strain used for fermentation. I'd like to culture it out of the bottle. What fermentation temp should I shoot for? mike ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:21:48 +0000 From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Buffering A glass of water drawn from the tap will have a particular pH determined by the relative concentrations of that water's carbonic (molecules), bicarbonate (ions) and carbonate (ions). These form a buffering system - in fact 2. Buffering refers, as John pointed out, to the ability to resist pH change. Buffering capacity is a measure of that resistance. The usual definition is the amount of an acid (or base) which is required to move the pH a small amount divided by the small pH change (OK, it's the reciprocal of the derivative of pH wrt the acid/base addition) expressed in units of milliequivalents per pH . If carbonic and bicarbonate are present in equal strength the pH will be about 6.35 and the buffering capacity of the system will be at a maximum. If bicarbonate and carbonate are present in equal strength (a condition you hope to never meet) the pH will be about 10.4 and buffering capacity will be at a maximum again. If only bicarbonate is present (i.e. you put a spoonful in a glass of water) the pH will be about 8.3 but the buffering capacity will be very small. Thus the water contains two buffering systems: the carbonic/bicarbonate system and the bicarbonate/carbonate system. Note that neither of these is a good buffering system in that carbonic/bicarbonate will lose CO2 to the air and the bicarbonate/carbonate system will precipitate carbonate if any calcium or magnesium is present. When the relative concentrations of the species that make up the buffering system are not equal the system still serves as a buffering system but with capacity reduced realative to what it is when the species are in equal concentration. As a rule of thumb one tries to design buffers within 1 pH of the pK (the pH at which the species are in equal concentration). This is fine for background but it is not the definition of buffering capacity of interest to brewers. For brewers the buffering capacity is the amount (milliequivalents) of acid require to move the pH from whatever it is out of the mains to 4.3 which is the amount of acid required to convert all the bicarbonate (and carbonate) to carbonic. At that pH 99% of the "carbo" will be in the form of cabonic. At mash pH of 5.2 the corresponding figure is 93% and 5.6 it is 85%. Thus the goal is to convert most of the bicarbonate (and carbonate if there is any) to carbonic acid so it can escape is a gas in the mash/boil. The buffering capacity, so defined, is called the alkalinity of the water (water chemists use a similar definition except that the end point pH is a little different from 4.3 depending on the alkalinity of the sample). When grist is added to water phosphate in the malt coalesces with calcium and magnesium in the water precipitating calcium and magnesium phosphates and releasing hydrogen ions (acid). These combine with bicarbonate (and carbonate) to form carbonic which then escapes. If there is insufficient equivalent calcium hardess (calcium hardness plus half the magnesium hardness) to convert all the bicarbonate to carbonic the acid required to convert the rest is the residual alkalinity. The goal is to have residual alkalinity 0 or less than 0 (though small positive values are OK) in other words to --> remove as much of the water's natural buffering from the system as possible so that you can control mash pH by selecting malts <--. So now what determines the pH of the mash? The answer is the dozens(?) of buffering systems formed by the acids of the malt itself. Any system in which the reaction H(n)A(-m) --> H+ + H(n-1)A(-(m+1)) i.e. where a molecule or ion looses a proton leaving an ion with a negative charge (or a larger negative charge) is taking place is a buffering system. Whether it has any capacity or not depends on whether the pH of the system is close (1 unit) to the pK (a measure of the energy required to remove the proton) of the particular acid. In a multiple buffering system, like the double carbo system described in the first paragraph, if one plots buffering capacity vs. pH one sees two peaks (at the pKs 6.35 and 10.4 and a dip in between at 8.3). If one does the same for a mash (or even for a single malt) the curve has no such features. It is in fact, made up of so many peaks and valleys that they all run together into a smooth curve. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:35:43 -0500 From: Michael McGuire <mcguirmd at georgetown.edu> Subject: Recipe MCAB-V Brown Porter Recipe: 2 lbs. brown malt (Thomas Fawcett, 57L) 3/4 lb biscuit malt 7 lbs. maris otter pale malt 3 oz. chocolate malt 3 oz. roasted barley 10 oz. carafoam (Weyermann, 1.8L) simple infusion mash Boil with 1 oz Liberty hop pellets (alpha=3.2%) and 1 tsp gypsum - 60 mins. Add 1/3 oz EKG pellets (alpha=5.5%) and 1 tsp Irish moss - final 10 mins. Chill, rack to carboy, pitch 1 tube Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale) made into starter 4 days earlier Rack to secondary after 5 days Bottle/keg with 2/3 cup DME primer after 16 days O.G.=1.057, F.G.=1.022 Brewed by Mike McGuire, BURP Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:57:06 -0600 From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc> Subject: St. Louis County Water analysis Does anyone have one? I contacted Missouri-American Water and they could give me a report from 2001 but it doesn't include any hardness, bicarbonate, or sulfate data. Thanks. Pat Reddy MAVERICK Technologies (618)281-9100 x134 pat.reddy at mavtech.cc Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:17:13 -0600 From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc> Subject: step mashing 60/70 rests I am wanting to experiment with lower and upper Scarification rests at 60* and 70*. I'm somewhat familiar with Fix's 40/60/70 method but have decided to go with the 60/70 only. I suppose my first question is.... Is adding acid directly to the mash an acceptable alternative to the acid rest at 40*? My second is... I have a herms system with the coil in the HLT and can easily ramp my temperature between steps at about 1.5*/minute. Any suggestions as to a good starting point for playing with rest periods at these temps (60/70)? I'm looking for something that will give close to the same results as a single infusion at a given temperature so that I have a reference point to base my experimental batches on. I know Fix suggested a 30 minute rest at each, but I've also read that 15 minutes at 60 and 45 at 70 is a good "balanced" starting point. FYI...I am interested in brewing pales mostly - no lagers at this point. Thanks. Pat Reddy MAVERICK Technologies (618)281-9100 x134 pat.reddy at mavtech.cc Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:07:51 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Yeast for Oktoberfest "Rob Beck" <3rbecks at sbcglobal.net> asked >Would the White Labs WLP 833 Bock/Ayinger strain be a good choice for an >Oktoberfest? This is a remarkable yeast, and my favorite lager yeast. I think the only classic style I would not use it for a Bohemian Pilsner and perhaps a very dry North German Pils like Jever. It works very well for most any other style, and while I haven't used it for a Fest beer, I think it would work very well. My experience with the yeast is that it is very balanced between malt and hops, perhaps a bit toward the malt. But I am able to get a very crisp Classic American Pilsner using it by mashing for full fermentability. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:13:37 -0500 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: Words (was things) AJdL >and the rest - well, let's not go there. DanL >What if we want to go there? I think AJ was referring to origin of the remainder of English words and along with German and Greek the influence of the French language should be mentioned. I understand not going there. -S 'Caesar, [...] fearing the fickle disposition of the Gauls, who are easily prompted to take up resolutions, and much addicted to change, considered that nothing was to be entrusted to them;' - De bello gallico, book 4 script 5, Julius Caesar, 55 BC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:20:35 -0800 From: "Cave, Jim" <Cave at psc.org> Subject: Re comments on Mineral additions by Fred L Johnson In theory, there is nothing wrong with just treating the water in the kettle. However, that is theory. Mineral content is known to affect the mash because the pH is controlled in part by the buffering effects of the minerals in the water. In particular Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Suphate affect the pH of the Mash. There are many references to this, for example Ray Daniel's Book (Designing great beers) and George Fix's books to name a couple. This could ultimately affect the ratio of fermentable to unfermentable sugars in the mash I would presume. In addition, Fred writes "...I actually ignore the boil off volume and simply do the math based upon the final kettle volume. That is, salt additions are based merely upon the final volume of my batch (in the kettle, not in the fermentor) and the ion concentrations of my local water. (So I'm always low by about 15%, but I don't really care, and one could simply adjust the additions based upon the boil off volume if one does care.)" All the figures I have seen for mineral content are for the waters of brewing regions, not the beers. You would undershoot somewhat, but there is variability within a region and wihin a style that would be at least as great as your calculation. Jim Cave Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:39:31 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Teuscher <t_teuscher at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: does anyone have a Sabco Brew Magic?? I got a Brew Magic recently and have only made 3 batches with it, so I am by no means an expert using it yet. But here is my experience. Use the LP burners to perform any large temperature changes. Once you reach the desired temperaure (as indicated on the analog dial temperaure probe) shut the LP burner off. Then set the temperature controller to the desired setpoint. You might need to adjust the offset of the controller so the temperature reads the same as the analog dial temperature probe. I have noticed with my temperature controller (the probe actually) that I have to add 1 to 2 degrees at 120 and 6 degrees at 150 to get the readings to match. The type of probe being used is not very linear. By changing the setpoint of the controller after the LP burner has done its job will keep the heating element from being on constantly. This should HELP prevent excessive wort temperatures from being reached around the heating elemnt chamber. I am probably wrong about this but it can't hurt. Make sure your flow rate isn't too high. Adjust the valve so the wort shoots out about 3 to 4 inches at the top of the mash. I assume the literature which comes with the system means 3 to 4 inches from the spout to the mash water level. If the flow rate is too low then you can carmelize the wort (makes it get too dark and can cause off flavors). If the flow rate is too high then you can suck the wort from under the flase bottom faster than the wort can drain through the false bottom which can cause an impacted/stuck mash. I have not had any problems with either. Just make sure you get the flow adjusted correctly. With the wort flow adjusted correctly, my controller hasn't had any problems maintaining temperature. If you shut the LP burner off a degree or two below your desired temp and allow the heating element/ controller to raise the temp the last degree or two, then I have noticed an overshoot of a degree or two. This is due to the amount of time it takes wort to flow through the grain bed and reach the temperature probe of the controller. Once the wort cools down that 1 degree of overshoot, the system seems rock solid at holding any temperature. For those who don't know, the temperature probe on the Sabco Brew Magic RIMS is before the heating element - contrary to what has been agreed upon lately as the optimal placement in a RIMS system. I hope this helps Jim. Cheers, Ted - ---------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 05:19:11 -0500 From: "jim williams" <jimswms at cox.net> Subject: does anyone have a Sabco Brew Magic?? I guess this goes for any RIMS!?? I just got mine. The thing is great, but, I'm having a problem hitting and raising temps. I'm wondering what your experiences are? It seems like it takes 15 min. or so to actually achieve the temp. I'm looking for., by the time it drains out the bottom, goes through the heater, ends up on top of the mash, then filters down through the mash.... at this rate, how is a protein rest really possible?? What is your method? Again, I guess this goes for any RIMS system as it seems that it would be a common problem!? cheers, jim Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:07:19 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: water chemistry OK, so I'm a little late to the game. And OK, John P. covered most of the technical aspects of brewing water chemistry in a way much clearer than has been done before. I'll still toss my $0.02 in on the practical aspects of brewing water chemistry. First, understand that the water chemistry-beer style connection is one of practicality. Brewers tried to brew many different styles of beer until they finally found one that overcame any inadequacies (pH, hardness, RA, etc.) and stuck with it. Very few of the beers retain any organoleptic (fancy food science word for taste, flavor, smell, etc) properties of the water. The two that do are always mentioned: Dortmunder and IPA (sulfate). Sure, the chalkiness in a porter or stout might be noticeable and slightly beneficial, but not a big deal. So, knowing that most brewers try to do everything in their power to REDUCE the effects of their water on beer would suggest that HBers do the same. I do think that Dortmunders and IPAs benefit from gypsum addition. I also think that any beer using Kent Goldings as a major hop component can benefit from the same, because that hop matches beautifully with sulfate. But if you have very soft water be thrilled. You can make every beer from it, but may need to add a bit of calcium to help with enzyme activity. The people who have a lot more to worry about are those who have glaring issues with their water and need to find out how best to soften it. I did a piece in Zymurgy a few years back where I brewed four kinds of IPAs with four water profiles. The favorite of the group was the Burtonized batch (addition of lots of sulfate) with an average score of 41. Our local brewpub's brewer said it was one of the best IPAs he'd ever had. But the batch made with ultra-soft Chapel Hill water scored a 39.5 and was prefered by two of the four panelists. So there is a benefit to water treatments, but not nearly as much as they are made out to be. Oh, and I add all minerals to the mash since that's where they do the most good. I add a teaspoon of calcium chloride to all my mashes to assist with conversion. That's it, unless brewing the aforementioned IPA. Cheers! - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:02:54 -0500 From: "Jay Spies" <jayspies at citywidehomeloans.com> Subject: Hops in Pots All - Steve Gray asks about growing hops in pots.... I've had good luck growing hops in 40 gallon trash pails filled with dirt and potting soil. While the initial dirt bill is a bit on the expensive side, the hops adapt well. I live in Baltimore City, where there is no dirt, and the only compensation that I made is that I found that you have to be very vigilant with watering and feeding. One or two feeds throughout the spring season is normally sufficient, but you have to water them DAILY, and I mean daily. Maybe its just me, but my hop leaves are always on the small side (rarely getting bigger than 5 inches across. Many of the in-ground hops that I have seen from others have base leaves with 8 or 10-inch spreads... Also, the height rarely exceeds 10 or 15 feet, so maybe the hops only grow as much as their containers allow; or if the roots can't get too big, the plant only grows so much... Hop flowers, though, seem to be normal size. If you can afford it, buy trash cans instead of pots. I noticed that after 1 season my root ball on the hops had expanded to fill the entire trash can, so you do need some space for roots unless you don't mind having pygmy hop plants. Also, drill holes in the bottom of the container and line the first 3 or 4 inches with large gravel to promote drainage... my .00002 Jay Spies Charm City Altobrewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:25:04 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: solenoids: Normally CLosed Bruce Dir ask about: solenoids: Normally CLosed Here is my dilemma, "I have two Normally Closed N/C solenoid valves from McMaster-Carr. I = read on Nemasket Rivers HERMS site that he is "forcing one valve to be = Normally Open N/O". How is this accomplished. I will be running the = solenoids from 2 Omega SSR relays and the signal is coming from the = CN9000 Omega PID controller. "Is there such a thing as a Normally Open SSR? This is what it appears = to have labeled on his schematic on the website. I would like to save = the cost of purchasing a N/O solenoid because they are much more = expensive than the N/C units I have I have." Yes, NO solenoids are costly, because they're more complicated internally. All external SSRs, to my knowledge, are Normally open ("Form A"). But that has the opposite meaning to what you're thinking about. A switch or SSR, when Normally Open, means that current does NOT flow when the control signal is off. You're going to need a small Normally closed relay to control one SSR. This is how he "forces" one to be open. The other will be controlled directly by the PID controller. It may be that your PID controller has "Form C" (see my explanation below) outputs, in which case you don't need an extra relay. Once valve gets wired to the normally closed side, the other to the normally open side. To understand whats going on, you need to understand the difference between direct and reverse acting control. Assuming one valve is going to be used as a bypass in the herms, and the other to shut off flow in the herms, you have one controlled element that is direct acting and one that is reverse acting. Normally, in an electrical heater control, as the temperature rises, the output decreases. That's called reverse acting, because the output moves in the opposite direction of the wild or measured variable (temperature). This describes the valve that shuts off the flow to the herms coil. But The bypass valve opens longer as temperature rises, which is direct acting. If you have only a single output on your controller, in a situation like this you use control elements that have "opposite" effects. That is, a normally open and a normally closed valve. What you'll need to do is decide whether your control works in direct or reverse mode (which solenoid is the "primary" one, from the point of view of the controller. This is usually set up in a menu (occasionally called "heating" or "cooling", but in the Omega, it should be direct or reverse). Then the other valve will be the opposite type of control, and needs to be controlled by a standard relay. Whether it's Form A (NO), Form B (NC) or Form C ("single pole double throw") depends on your choice of output. Your choice is usually governed by how you want the system to fail. In your case, a power failure (fuse blows) closes both solenoids...no problem. So it probably doesn't matter for you. Lets say you go for direct acting, and the Bypass is the primary control element. As the temp goes up, the bypass turns on. The control output is on. So you need to use either a Form B (mormally closed), or the "B" contact of a Form C relay (the NC contact) to interrupt power to the herms coil shutoff. When the control output is off, the NC contact keeps the valve on. If you went for reverse acting, the controller would control the herms shutoff valve. As temp goes up, the valve closes, and the controller output is off. But now you want the bypass on, so again you use a Form B contact, and turn on the SSR for the bypass valve. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:42:04 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: solenoids and mash mixers Greg McLane asked about: solenoids and mash mixers Two unrelated questions for the HBers in the know: "Got myself a box-frame solenoid from mcmaster.com (part #70155K48, 120V/ 7/8" stroke/ continuous duty, 12VA power rating) for service in my brewery. Plan to control it with my Johnson Controls A419 120V controler, which tells me it can handle a full load of 16 amps, among other things. It also lists somthing called "pilot duty" and lists a rating of 125VA for the 120V range. So I thought I was fine, based on my somewhat limited knowledge of electronics. But then a few posts lately have mentioned that inductive loads, which I think solenoids are, can burn out controllers (the posts were mostly about PID's, but I'm interpolating here.) Any help is appreciated." That solenoid is likely to produce a large inductive kick, and will shorten the life of the contacts. Some contacts are designed to handle this (mechanically and electrically), by such tricks as rocking before opening, and the like. I have no idea whether yours will take 16amps of inductive load, but I would be surprised if it did, unless it's designed for refrigeration use where it directly starts a motor or larger contactor. If you see the words "resistive" anywhere, then the answer is no, it won't work by itself. Pilot duty contacts usually will drive relay coils and stuff, and will take light inductive loads (like the coil of a motor starter). But your solenoid is more like a motor load, because of the stroke. Either use a motor rated definite purpose contactor, or else use some sort of arc suppression (usually an MOV and capacitor). Post the complete electrical specs, and I can answer more. By the way, the mash mixer made from the top of a sankey keg sounds like a good idea...The spear isn't usually fastened on all that well, but maybe it could be tack welded in place. If nothing else, weld a stainless shaft on the sankey head. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:31:29 -0500 From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Fermenter Recirculation #5 - Bad Idea At 09:02 AM 3/28/03 -0500, Todd Snyder wrote: >Hi David, > >What would be the difference between recirculating the fermenting beer and >mixing the beer? Could you get the same results using an overhead mixer? > >Todd Snyder >Buffalo, NY Todd - The whole idea of the experiment was to keep all the yeast in active contact with the fermenting beer throughout the fermentation. As I have a cylindro-conical fermenter, I expect that a stirrer consisting of a small "fan blade" turning near the apex of the cone would do the job quite nicely. That would mean, however, that either the drive shaft would have to enter the top of the fermenter through some sort of seal, or a very active fermentation could blow foam out around the drive shaft and make a mess. That problem could be eliminated by leaving sufficient headspace to prevent the foam from reaching the top of the fermenter, but in my case, that would prevent me from fermenting ten gallons at a time. If you decide to try using a stirrer, I hope you'll let us all know the results. I had fun conducting this experiment, but it turned out to be rather costly. Dave in Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:30:43 -0500 From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> Subject: Re; Fermenter recirculation #5 - Bad Idea In HBD 4208, Braam Greyling asks whether I would have been better off using a plastic aquarium pump because the plastic wouldn't react with the wort. The pump I used is made of glass-filled polypropylene, and the rotor shaft is made of Titanium. I don't for a moment believe reaction was the problem. Rather, I believe abrasion was the problem, and I think it must have been caused by the yeast, as I never had any wear problem when pumping just wort - even boiling wort. Then in HBD 4209, mystery writer "-S" (is this Steve Alexander using an alias? :-) nailed me for sloppy wording when he asked: "I've a question Dave. Why is fermenter recirculation a "Bad Idea" just because your pump was a dud ?" Okay, you caught me. Keeping all the yeast in active contact with the fermenting wort isn't a bad idea; it's the way I went about it that was a dud. And as a matter of fact, I might repeat the experiment. I have a good buddy who is an accomplished machinist, and he has kindly agreed to make me several new rotor shafts out of stainless steel (I just don't believe I need Titanium to pump wort/beer). He will also put a metal sleeve in the bore of my damaged pump rotor (we have yet to settle on the metal to be used), to see whether it holds up any better than what I had. Then, I'll try it again. I'll post the results. Dave in Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:34:46 -0800 From: "Ross" <BurningBrite at charter.net> Subject: Re: Water From Chillers Hey Steve, welcome to the hobby. You recently wrote re: > How much water is wasted using the copper coil wort chillers. > > -steve hanlon Depends on what you mean by "wasted". I set my kettle on a board on top of the dryer, disconnect the cold water faucet to the washing machine, connect my chiller inlet to the cold water faucet, run the chiller out line into the washing machine, turn it on low (about 1/2 gallon per minute or less), and capture the fairly warm water for use in washing colored clothing; should be perfect for diapers too ;) . I have also run the outlet onto my wife's flower garden in high summer when they can use the extra water. Neither of those would be "wasted". That said, with my moderately efficient (but not counterflow) chiller, and depending on the time of year (the water's cooler in the winter than in the summer) it takes about 7 - 15 gallons to chill a 5.5 gallon batch from boiling to pitching temp. Hope that helps... ...Ross Potter, Richland, WA "Vuja De" - The Feeling You've Never Been Here Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 01:49:43 +0000 From: aa8jzdial at attbi.com Subject: mixmasher I read with interest Jack Schmidling's post on his mixmasher (hbd 4203). I have always had grief controlling mash temps with a herms system of sorts that I have cobbled together. Definately this is my biggest problem with brewing equipment. My heater dumps plenty of heat into the mash but I am convinced there is large temp gradients throughout the bed. Has any one else tried a continous stirring of the mash as described by Jack? I do not doubt his stated stellar results but would like a few endorsements before I embark on building a stirrer. Hand stirring 20 # is a pita. Digging around my vast pile of junk I didn't find a fan blade as Jack recommends but did trip over an old ice auger that hasn't been used in many years. (I am gradually switching obsessions.) I envision shortening the auger a bit and sliding it into a cylindrical sleeve, drawing the mash off the bottom, and slowly spewing it back near the surface of the mash. How careful should I be about exposing the mash to air? I will use a variable speed motor so I should be able to adjust the throughput to just a crawl. The auger is steel and will be sand blasted and probably painted with an epoxy type paint to minamize any funk flavors from the bare steel. Some one holler if this is a bad idea please. tnx rick Whitehall Mi. on the now ice free shores of Lake Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:46:18 -0500 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: what really smells... Steve went on about autolysis and its' aroma, saying, >> Autolysed yeast do NOT smell like burning tires. << From Virginia Tech, Food Science and Technology Dept... "Other degradation products include fatty acids, as well as components of the yeast nucleic acids, and vitamins. Yeast autolysate may play a role in the character and complexity of wine. However, the process of sur lie with heavy lees (particularly in the absence of stirring or oxygen) can occasionally result in the production of 'off' flavors and aromas, including H2S and mercaptans. ".... "Mercaptans are the other principle group of sulfur containing compounds. They all contain this (-SH) group. Ethyl mercaptan possesses_a_burnt_rubber_, skunk or garlic-like character. Methyl mercaptan has a sensory characteristic of cooked cabbage. The sensory threshold of both mercaptans is approximately 1 ppb (part per billion)." Yes this is talking about wine, but vintners also use S. Cerevisiae. At a threshold of parts per billion I don't believe it was me having cognitive problems identifying autolysis. NL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:31:26 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at AkzoNobel.com> Subject: final degree of fermentation Wyeast 3068 Hello, The members of our homebrewingclub did an experiment with 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen yeast. On the Wyeast site I read : apparent attenuation 73-77% (64-75o F)=(17.8-23.9o C). What does this mean, 73-77% % of what? When the wort consists (in theory) 100 % fermentable sugars (glucose, maltose, maltotriose) is this yeast still fermenting 73-77 % ?? We made 80 liters of wort. Mashing 15 minutes at 46 degrees C (115 F) to make ferulic acid, 15 minutes at 55 degrees C (131 F) proteinic rest, 45 minutes 61 degrees C (142 F) beta-amylase rest and 15 minutes at 71 degrees C (160 F) for alpha-amylase rest (we used 50 wheatmalt and 50 % barleymalt. We divided the boiled wort in 5 portions and added enough Wyeast 3068 (growed from 1 package). Fermentations were carried out at roomtemperature. Bottling when fermentation stopped (no carbondioxyde formed). One person bottled at 1.010 , one at 1.012 , two persons bottled at 1.011 and one person bottled at 1.014 (this hydrometer reading is correct). Is it possible that the same yeast under (small) different conditions ferments e.g. 73 OR 77 % ?? All bottling was done with 8 grammes of saccharose per liter (1.07 oz per gallon). Does this mean that the person who bottled at 1.014 will get a very high pressure in his bottles?? I hope some answers for my questions (I also send the questins to Wyeast, Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema http://home.wanadoo.nl/hoorns.hopbier/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:05:13 -0800 From: Mark Garthwaite <brewmaster at hbd.org> Subject: 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild is proud to sponsor the 17th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition! The Big & Huge is a competion for high gravity beers. Entries for Big Ale and Big Lager categories range from an OG of 1.050 to 1.060. Huge Ale and Huge Lager categories are for OG's greater than 1.060. Ciders, meads, and sakes above an OG of 1.050 are accepted in a single category. When: Saturday May 3, 2003 at 10:00 am - 4:00 pm Where: JT Whitney's Pub & Brewery in Madison, WI Entry Deadline is Wednesday April 30th. To preregister, deliver or email a copy of the registration form for each entry before April 30th to: Mark Garthwaite, Big & Huge Czar 617 Piper Drive Madison, WI 53711 or by email (preferred method) to: brewmaster at mhtg.org Pre-registered entries will be accepted at the competition site. Entries can also be shipped to: Big & Huge c/o Wine and Hop Shop 1931 Monroe Street Madison, WI 53711 The Best of Show beer will be awarded the coveted WOOLY MAMMOTH plaque. The HAIRLESS MOUSE award for the Best of the Cider, Mead, and Sake category returns again this year. Awards and prizes will be presented to the top three finishers in each category. More details and entry forms can be found at: http://www.mhtg.org Please contact me if you have questions or are interested in judging/stewarding. The Big & Huge is a BJCP sanctioned event. Cheers, Mark Garthwaite, Big & Huge Czar (608) 298-9928 brewmaster at mhtg.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 10:15:54 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: Sam's Superstore. I just ran across Sam's Superstore <http://www.samswine.com/>, located in Chicago but also selling online. Their beer selection is impressive ... so is the wine and liquor selection. Any HBD'rs do online business with them? What about Chicagoans? I thought there were all sorts of legal problems with interstate shipping of beer/wine liquor. Are these guys legit? Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY http://hbd.org/ensmingr Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:17:56 -0600 From: "Mark Kellums" <infidel at springnet1.com> Subject: Hops in Pots In HBD 4208, Steven Gray asks: > Has anyone had any luck growing them in big pots, say 5 >to 10 gallons and leaving them there? > Stencil replies: Yeah; but firstly, think more in the line of 40-50 gallons. The large plastic planters used for patio shrubs and the like work well, as would (I guess) oak half-barrels. Me: I really think 40-50 gallons is overkill. I've grown some very successful hop plants in 5 gallon buckets above ground. The hops were twined up ten feet to a 9 gauge wire overhead. Of course in the heat of the summer you may have to water twice a day with this arrangement. I've also used whiskey barrels with good success but they were more or less permanently placed whereas the buckets could be moved easily for mowing. Stencil says: Remember that you're not going to have any yield to speak of until the third season or so. Me: I've also found this not to be the case. I've gotten very good yields from first year plants depending on the variety and how well they are taken care of. Cascade, Eroica, Galena, Chinook and other vigorous varieties will give you a decent batch of hops depending on the growing conditions. Stencil writes: Another matter is overwintering. My pots are sunk into the "soil" (solid clay - this is Berkshire County, in Taxachusetts) adjacent to the foundation wall and there is a deck built over them, about 18" off the surface. Me: I haven't found this to be a problem either. My current three year old potted hops are in 8 gallon plastic pots on the west side of the pergola. The winters here in central Illinois can be pretty frigid. You may have to dump the whole pot every few years to remove excess roots and or rhizomes but I haven't yet. Hope this helps. Mark Kellums Decatur Il. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:35:12 -0500 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Buffered systems Brewsters, John Palmer says: " The bicarbonate is not the buffering agent." Sorry to disagree but, bicarbonate/carbonate is part of the buffering system, just as it is in your swimming pool. As long as both carbonate and bicarbonate exist at a given pH, it acts as a buffer system. Carbonate is a weak acid just as are the organic acids. They may buffer in a different pH region due to the different dissociation constants. Better analogies might be pH is sort of like temperature ( in that it is an intensity measure) and acidity is sort of like heat (in that it is quantity) .Steel and Aluminum may have the same temperature ( aka pH) but have different heat contents ( aka acidity) and resist temperature change (aka pH) differently with the same amount of heat (aka acidity) . i.e buffered. In this case due to different heat capacities ( buffering capacities) Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 15:13:01 -0700 From: "William Plotner" <mountanman458 at netzero.net> Subject: Brewers Workshop 4.0 Hi, Is anyone out there using Brewers Workshop 4.0? I just built a new computer, with 40Gig hard drive and 3/4 gig memory. When I try to install Brewers, I get a "Insufficient Memory or Hard Drive Space" error. Anyone with any experience or recommendations? Tom, if you are out there reading this, e-mail me. Thanks in advance of any help. Beerbill mountanman457 at juno.com Return to table of contents
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