---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Rescue Shelter Available... (Teresa Knezek)
  RE: chloramines/chlorine/Campden Tabs (Peter Wadey)
  Stoney Creek Vanilla Porter ("Fred Scheer")
  re:  Indoor Boiling (Ed Jones)
  Where do I brew (Jim Bermingham)
  Re: aquarium heater fermentation safety (rhostler)
  Re: indoor boiling (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  Re: Indoor Boiling (Jeff Renner)
  inside or outside? (Marc Sedam)
  Brewing outside (Calvin Perilloux)
  Re: Sankey Anti-Tamper Work Around (Jeff Renner)
  experiments with corn II (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM>
  from dark to light? (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: aquarium heater fermentation safety (Denny Conn)
  Re: Stoney Creek Vanilla Porter (Denny Conn)
  chilling the ferment ("Frank Tutzauer")
  iron water, late winter hops ("Dave Burley")
  RE: Sankey Valve spear puller ("Mike Sharp")
  Re: Sankey Anti-Tamper Work Around (Ryan Neily)
  Re: Indoor Boiling (Teresa Knezek)
  RE: Sankey Anti-Tamper Work Around ("Leonard, Phil")
  Re: Water treatment ("Ed Dorn")
  FW: Water treatment ("Ed Dorn")
  What's a lager? ("Ed Dorn")
  secondary/priming combined in cornies??? ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  sour mash oddity? (Steven S)
  2003 AHA Board of Advisors Election...FINAL RESULTS ("Rob Moline")


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* The HBD Logo Store is now open!
* http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 22:35:00 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Rescue Shelter Available...

On or thereabout 4/9/03, Pat Babcock spoke thusly:
>(Now, [my garage brewing rack] is a conversation piece for those who 
>stop by, since it ain't "back in the day" no more...)

That is a terribly, terribly sad thing. I feel for you, but more 
importantly, I feel for your poor, neglected equipment. I am 
therefore generously offering to give your brewing equipment a loving 
"rescue" home, where it can live out its days cared for and brewed in 
regularly.

Same for all of you who refer to your wives as SWMBO, and suffer the 
wrath of your loved ones on brew day... Preserve your domestic peace! 
Rediscover marital bliss! For your SWMBO's next birthday, send your 
persecuted brewing gadgets to me, where they will enjoy a kind and 
caring home, lovingly brewed in by me, and deeply appreciated by 
HWLBBF (He Who Likes Being Brewed For) 3-4 weeks later.

If you like, I can even send periodic photos of your darlings, and 
quarterly samples of their latest accomplishments... kinda like those 
"Sponsor-a-Child" programs that send you photos and cute handwritten 
letters from your "sponsoree" every so often.

I'm just that kind of giving, caring, altruistic person.
- -- 
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
                      -- Abraham Lincoln


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 17:32:22 +1000
From: Peter Wadey <pwadey at mimixbroadband.com.au>
Subject: RE: chloramines/chlorine/Campden Tabs

Dear A.J. and Dave,
Thanks for responding to my Qn about Sodium Met. in Campdens Tablets,
and reassuring me of their suitability for use in removing Chloramine.
Doug had me a little worried for a while. (BTW Doug, my tap pH is 7.5-7.8)

But A.J., I am unsure how much Campdens to use because:

On Wed, 12th Jun 2002, you wrote:
'....One Campden tablet per 20 gallons of treated water is sufficient to
take
care of 3 mg/L chlorine as chloramine and, with respect to another post,
this is a typical amount found in municipal supplies. Campden tablets
will also help scavenge any residual dissolved oxygen.'

Then on Tue, 08 Apr 2003, you wrote:
'one tablet  should treat 40 gallons of water containing 3 mg/L chloramine.'

Which do you recommend?
1 tablet per 20 gallons or 1 per 40 gallons for 3ppm chloramine?

Regards,
Peter Wadey
Mashing away in Eastwood,
NSW, Australia
(Where I might get a light frost in the dead of winter)



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:44:12 -0500
From: "Fred Scheer" <FHopheads at msn.com>
Subject: Stoney Creek Vanilla Porter

HI Stu:

I have ones in a while a Coffee Porter
or a Vanilla Skye (Scottish Ale) that
I offer our customers in casks.
I found that our customers here in the South
like the Vanilla Skye more than a Vanilla Porter.
After I ad the corn sugar and whole hops in the
cask (5 gallons), I ad 2 Vanilla beans, this where
opened in the middle for extraction.
Than I fill the cask (50*F), leave it in the
Brewhouse (~ 65-68*F)for 2 weeks, than one week at 40*F
before having our "cellarman of the day" drawing.
It became so popular, that I now bottle them too.

Fred Scheer
www.brewsbrothers.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 05:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ed Jones <cuisinartoh at yahoo.com>
Subject: re:  Indoor Boiling

Teresa stated:

"If I had to set up in a basement, I'd install an industrial-strength 
oven hood vent right above where I was setting up the boiler, and 
make sure I had a window to crack open to replace the air the vent 
sucked out."

Check out my webpage at http://ironacres.com for one simple vent idea.
But rather than a window to crack open, I open ALL the windows in the
basement to provide make-up air. That's a furnace blower on the vent
hood and it works well once a draft gets going. I usually start the
blower about 10 minutes before I brew to get a draft flowing and I keep
the basement door shut. That is an 8" pipe from the blower to a window.
I have another pipe sticking out of the window to make sure the fumes
dont just blow right back in (they did until I extended the pipe out
the window during the brew.


=====
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:57:08 -0700
From: Jim Bermingham <jbham6843 at netscape.net>
Subject: Where do I brew

The winters are brutal in this part of the world.  Sometimes you even 
have to wear a coat early of a morning (25 to 30 deg) but by afternoon 
most of the time it reaches 40 to 50 degrees.  But being a Woosie I 
still brew in my garage.  Even in the summer when the thermometer 
reaches 105.

Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:33:11 -0400 
From: rhostler at pcconnection.com
Subject: Re: aquarium heater fermentation safety

<Can anyone else assure me that this is a fairly safe practice?  I realize
no
one can say 100% "it won't cause any problems" but you can say "I've been
doing this for years and I have been fine".

Is a 100 watt heater overdoing it? Guidelines suggest 5 watts per gallon and
the tub is maybe 10 gallons, I think, but is it ok to go bigger?>

I have used aquarium heaters 15W - 300W in aquariums for years. I have used
them in plastic 5gal buckets several times without any problems. I also tend
to run worst-case scenarios through my head before attempting any new setup.
There is a product that can alleviate your bucket-melting fears. Pet stores
sell plastic shrouds that fit around standard aquarium heaters. These
shrouds are designed to keep larger fish or other animals from banging the
glass heater against the tank (I use one in my turtle tank). The shroud also
creates a cushion of water around the heater. So, if you use a heater and
shroud, the assembly could rest against the side of the bucket without the
hot glass of the heater coming in contact with the side of your bucket.
Voila, no chance of melting. Another way to assure heat doesn't build up too
much and create a more even temperature is to run a cheap submersible
aquarium power head (underwater pump) with the outlet pointing toward the
heater. This will circulate the water and promote more efficient heating of
your fermenter.

As far as wattage, you need to take the temperature delta you wish to create
and then figure that into your volume calculation. I'm pretty sure I've seen
online calculators for aquarium heaters on the Web. I run a 250W in my
basement 55gal aquarium and keep the tank temp at 72-74F in a 60-65F degree
air temp.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:01:51 -0400 
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Re: indoor boiling

Here are the returns so far on indoor/outdoor brewing:

Teresa Knezak, Two Rivers, Alaska.
Teresa says she brews inside, but then she does it in her attached
garage.  Unless it's heated by something other than her propane
burner, I would call that brewing outside.  Teresa also thinks by living
in Alaska you automatically qualify as brewing in the coldest place on
earth.  Although she likes to exaggerate a little, it is cold there.  The
average highs and lows for the same days I brewed are 12.65F/-5.8F.

Dan Gross, Olney, Maryland.
Dan brews outside, but needs a cover over his set up.  The garage
works for me.  Not that cold in Maryland.  38.68F/16.88F

Randy Ricchi, Hancock, Michigan
We don't know where Randy brews.  He never said.  It's a little colder
in Hancock than Ann Arbor.  Randy thinks Ann Arbor *IS* the tropical
paradise of Michigan and complains about having snow.  Ann Arbor
has snow too!  17.98F/6.26F

Matt Schultz, Madison Wisconsin
Matt brews inside.  Really cushy.  24.9F/6.42F

Mark Kempisty
Mark is another tough guy.  He brews outside, but we don't' know where.
But it must be cold there!!!

Jason Poll, Keweenaw Peninsula (Hancock), Michigan
Jason brews outside.  He fixed up a nice wind shield to help with keeping
his burner fired up.  He has a much better sense of the weather than
Teresa does.  17.98F/6.26F

Pat Babcock, Westland, Michigan
The janitor brews outside when he brews.  I'm glad he still remembers that
he did brew at one time.  I wonder if he remembers he use to come to some
of the AABG meetings!!  26.88F/14.36F

Brian Lundeen, Winnepeg, Manitoba
Brian is an insider.  He admits that his marriage is failing because of it ;) 
And needs to do some venting.  He lives in the coldest place of anyone 
that posted about brewing inside or outside.  11.95F/-5.08F

Jerry Pelt, Illinois??????
Jerry brews inside on his big honkin' stove from NASA.  Not sure where Jerry
lives.  He bought the stove in Galena, Illinois so I'm saying somewhere near
there.  He're the temps for Galena, Illinois.  26.38F/6.02F

Matt Arnold, Oconto Falls, Wisconsin
Matt brews outside.  He gets excited seeing the column of steam freezing
above the boil kettle and then billowing out of the garage when the temp is
below zero.  You have to make things fun like Matt does!!!! 24.17F/5.67F

I love brewing outside as much as those that brew inside love brewing inside.
I think the thing that makes it the most fun is that Kim and I brew together.
By brewing outside we get to get out of the house on days that we would
most likely stay inside.  Brewing is our winter sport.  Sometimes it is a
challenge.  What is really great about all of this is that there are people
everywhere brewing beer.  For me it makes the world a better place!!!!

We make the beer we drink!!
Bob Barrett
(2.8, 103.6) Rennerian  Judging mead at his house on Saturday.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:00:56 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Indoor Boiling

Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com> writes from Two Rivers, Alaska:

>Got an attached garage, and I set up my propane burner and crack the
>overhead garage door about 6 inches. Works well. Propane sinks, heat
>rises, so most of the heat stays in, and presumably, the propane can
>get out. Haven't passed out during a boil yet.

It isn't propane that is the danger, it's carbon monoxide.  Do 
yourself a favor, Teresa, and spend the money for a good 
digital-readout carbon monoxide detector.  You're too good an 
addition to HBD to gas yourself!

You might be surprised how high the CO level rises.  You might not 
feel ill, but it still isn't good for you.  CO can have effects that 
last for days.

In my garage with the overhead doors open as you describe, the levels 
rise to three figures in just a very few minutes.  The rough cast 
iron ring burners I have are not very efficient, and I suspect most 
of our burners are similar.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:09:18 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: inside or outside?

Here we have the opposite problem.  Although I have brewed many times 
when the temps were in the 10-20F range, it's harder for me to brew in 
the common 90-100F range seen in these here parts starting in June.  In 
fact, my spring brewing session is nearly over.  Just a mild, an IPA, 
and 15 gallons of Berliner weiss away from being finished until October.

This brings me to my favorite (semi-)annual question...what homebrews 
are in your beer cellar?  After the mild and IPA (both brewed by 1 May), 
mine will consist of:

IPA
mild (10 gallons)
CAP (7.5 gal)
dunkles
Belgian "light" dubbel (OG 'only' 1.064)
ESB
California common
wit
cherry wit
cran-blackberry mead
orange blossom mead

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brewing outside

Put my name on the list of those who brew outside.  Mostly.
Once I started using a free-standing propane cooker, I just can't 
bring myself back to that horrid little electric stove, the scorching,
the noise of the pots creaking on the burners, the hollering from SWMBO
about that malty perfume spreading through the house because the vent
fan just can't move out all the vapour from a full, rolling boil...

Here in Maryland, where we get relatively balmy winters
compared some of you, I thought on one particularly snowy and
windy day that I'd go back to electric.  (I do some of my mashing
that way, anyway, since the heating requirements are not as high.)
20 minutes later, as I cursed that electric stove, I was lugging
the propane equipment through the snow, shovelling a spot for it
outside the laundry door, and firing up for a real brew session!

What with the wind, snow, and +10 F, I needed to fashion a heat
shield, too.  SWMBO said it was like I was trying to boil water
in a walk-in freezer, with a fan blowing on the pot, while throwing
ice cubes in it.  Not far from the truth.  Still, it was better than 
brewing inside!

I'm still an inside brewer when it comes to the sparging, though,
which I do in the laundry.  The heat loss from my inefficiently
insulated lauter tun would be impossible to deal with in sub-freezing
ambient temps.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA
(where we actually had a real winter this year)




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:18:06 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sankey Anti-Tamper Work Around

Ryan Neily <ryan at neily.net> writes:

>I have a couple of Sankey kegs that I would like to use for kegging
>however, I have found that the anti-tamper thing that keeps the valve and
>rod in place is a bugger to get out and put back in.
><snip>
>I am sure this has been asked here many times before, but I couldn't find
>any mention of it in the Archives...

I post this on a regular basis.  The last time is at:

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4027.html#4027-14

Sankeys have advantages and disadvantages compared to Corneys.  I 
typically brew 7.75 gallons and fill a 1/4 bbl. Sankey.  Often I will 
transfer five gallons to a Corney when I've drunk 2.75 gallons.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:37:47 -0500 
From: "Smith, Brian (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM>
Subject: experiments with corn II

Dear listers...

Some of you may recall my last failed attempts at a CAP.  Old yeast and
improper mashing lead me to have to do something I had never done
before...dump a whole batch of beer.  So I'm going to give it another whirl.
I plan on using corn flakes cereal for my corn addition.  I'm using a
partial mash technique so, how many boxes of generic corn flakes will I need
to buy for a 7 gallon batch.  If this works I am also considering making a
Belgian wheat using some form of wheat cereal....so what do you think,
Wheaties, shredded wheat, or bran flakes?

Brian Smith
Inland Paperboard and Packaging
Bogalusa Mill



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:51:58 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: from dark to light?


Any of you guys (and gals) ever try to go from darker to lighter in re-
using yeast?  I am in my 3rd  use of a WLP510 Bastogne Belgian Yeast.  The 
first batch was a pretty low gravity Wit (1.050), the second batch was 
a "Bastogne Red Ale (1.061), but I am now trying to make a Strong Golden 
Ale..and just wonder if the color will work  as I wish, while re-using 
yeast from a darker batch.  Anyone had success with this before?
I guess that the worst that can happen is that I'll get a Strong Brown/ 
Amber Belgian?

Darrell 




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:37:54 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: aquarium heater fermentation safety

Tom, maybe I can ease your mind a bit.  I've been running 2 setups like 
that for several years, and have never even come close to a temperature 
that would melt the plastic tubs.  I keep 1 in a closet in the house for 
ales, and 1 in the garage for lagers (at least in the winter).  I don't 
remember exactly the size of my tubs, but 10 gal. would be a good guess.  I 
use a 50W heaters in both and seem to be able to get the temps. I need with it.

         -------------->Denny Conn
                         Eugene  OR

At 12:45 AM 4/9/03 -0400, Tom wrote:

>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 05:09:39 -0400
>From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
>Subject: aquarium heater fermentation safety
>
>I am dealing with too cool fermentation temperatures in my basement.  The
>coming of spring & summer will solve much of this in the next few months,
>but in the mean time I need a solution sooner so I can ferment a wheat beer
>and get some good banana notes from it.
>
>I have seen that some folks place their fermenters in a tub of some sort,
>fill it with water, and use an aquarium heater.  I would like to try this
>but I am a little nervous about safety.  I don't want to endanger my family
>simply to get a better beer.
>
>I have a 100 watt aquarium heater that I will set in a Rubbermaid type
>storage bin.  Those bins are pretty tough but they ARE plastic, and were not
>really designed for this application.  In my mind, I worry that worst case
>the heater, which is stuck to the side of the bin, will melt the plastic,
>drain out all the water, then burn up and cause a horrible conflagration.
>
>So...
>
>Can anyone else assure me that this is a fairly safe practice?  I realize no
>one can say 100% "it won't cause any problems" but you can say "I've been
>doing this for years and I have been fine".
>
>Is a 100 watt heater overdoing it? Guidelines suggest 5 watts per gallon and
>the tub is maybe 10 gallons, I think, but is it ok to go bigger?
>
>Finally, where do you put the tub? I will put mine in a bathtub, initially,
>but I may need to move it to another location at some point.
>
>Thanks
>Tom Karnowski
>Knoxville TN




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:43:37 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Stoney Creek Vanilla Porter

Stu,

For my Christmas beer this year, I made a Bourbon Vanilla Imperial 
Porter.  I used 2 vanilla beans, split open lengthwise.  I scraped the 
seeds from the inside, and tossed it all into the secondary for about 11 
days.  Turned out to have just the right vanilla character, not too 
overpowering.  I brewed a nice chocolatey porter for the base, using a few 
pounds of brown malt.  I've found that it gives the beer a bit of licorice 
character that goes nicely with the vanilla.

         ---------------->Denny Conn
                         Eugene  OR

At 12:45 AM 4/9/03 -0400, Stu wrote:

>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:02:06 -0400
>From: stewart.pounds at gm.com
>Subject: Stoney Creek Vanilla Porter
>
>Has anyone tried to clone Stoney Creeks Vanilla Porter? My wife and I was
>there a couple of weeks ago and it, it was great and I'd like to make
>something close to it. I thought I could just add Vanilla flavor to a
>porter recipe something like I do with my Hazelnut Porter, but from what
>I've found on the web it looks like everyone is using Vanilla beans to
>flavor there beers. Any help would be greatly appreciated i.e. grain bills
>, or processes. As usual private E-mail is fine.
>Thanks,
>Stu
>stewart.pounds at gm.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:25:43 -0400
From: "Frank Tutzauer" <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: chilling the ferment

I just want to second Jonathan's suggestion of Ken Schwartz's
Son-of-Fermentation Chiller.  I use one, and it works great.  I can easily
ferment lagers or keep ales at a nice steady 65 if I want.  For a while, Ken
was selling kits, but unfortunately he's not doing that anymore.  I was
lucky enough to get one of these before he quit.  (As an aside, he had
absolutely the best assembly instructions I've ever seen.)  But they're easy
enough to build following the website directions.

 --frank in Buffalo



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:31:28 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: iron water, late winter hops

Brewsters:

Jeff asks for more data on rusting equipment causing iron containing water.

In my case, it was the in-well jet pump ( so said the plumber)  which caused a
problem. Highly acid (Carbonated(?) water dissolved iron, was in the ferric
state and dissolved the copper pipe leading from the pump inflow to the house.
Where all the brass screws in my faucets and such dissolved or pitted. Bath
water was a beautiful copper ++ blue. A little ammonia confirmed it was
copper. The incoming copper pipe became paper thin and eventually developed a
pinhole. After removal, the pipe could be crushed easier than an eggshell.

Luckily, I found this by going to do a bottling of some homebrew in the
furnace room and felt this fine spray in my face.  Brewing does have its
positive side in home maintenance, despite what SWMBO says!

Anyway, I first replaced the inlet pipe with a pressure rated plastic hose (
despite what the plumber said about it not being to code) and then put in a
water treatment facility to rival a small city. It worked.
- -------------------------
Michael Hartsock worries that his early sprouts from his hop rhizomes gettng
frosted will ruin his chance for growth.  Dinna worry.  People often pick
these hop sprouts for an early salad and to prevent excess growth of the
bines.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:38:35 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Sankey Valve spear puller

Ryan Neily asks about a Sankey Anti-Tamper Work Around

"I have a couple of Sankey kegs that I would like to use for kegging
however, I have found that the anti-tamper thing that keeps the valve and
rod in place is a bugger to get out and put back in.

"I did see the Kegman conversion kit for the sankey kegs, but it looks a
little expensive at $8.95 for a snap-ring and OEM o-ring.  Do this kit work
well?

"Does anyone have an easier way to hold the valve/rod in while still keeping
a fair amount of pressure on the gasket to make the keg air tight? (Places
to order or specs on the hardware would be great as well)"

I think the snap ring is way easier.  It looks like a special snap ring,
because the sankey tap has to clear it.  The o-ring seems like an unusual
size, too.  I think they're worth the money.

I'll tell you what I use to remove the spear.  You can buy, for several
hundred dollars, a clamp tool for compressing the valve, which makes getting
the snap ring/anti tamper ring in and out a lot easier.  But it's easy to
make.  

Go to the auto supply store and get a combo harmonic balancer/steering wheel
puller.  Then get two flat pieces of aluminum, about 6 inches square.  With
your handy dandy Bosch jig saw, cut a U-shaped section out of one side of
each plate.  

Then drill and tap two holes in one plate as shown in my crude ASCII drawing
below.  The other plate needs two holes as well, but they don't have to be
tapped (clearance holes).  The size of the hole depends on the size of the
bolt in your harmonic balancer puller.  The gap in the plates is just wide
enough to go around the sankey cylindrical collar part, but not big enough
to go around the flange.  With the gaps facing each other, slide the plates
around the sankey collar, below the flange, with the threaded hole on the
bottom, until the holes line up.

 _______________
|               |
|       X       |
|     __________|
|    /
|    \__________
|               |
|       X       |
|_______________|

Assemble your puller, threading the puller bolts through the holes.  Get or
make a "Soft Center" which is a piece of something that goes between the
puller center threaded rod and the device that it pushes against (the sankey
valve's "ball", gas valve and it's metal collar in this case).  I used a
piece of thick polyethylene sized so that the pressure is distributed to the
metal of the valve spear. I backed this with a stainless washer.  If you
drill holes in this part, you'll be able to ensure that the pressure is
totally relieved when you clamp on (you can hear the gas/beer escaping).

Anyway, run down the puller rod, until the tension is removed from snap
ring, and away you go.  The valve rotates counter clockwise slightly before
it comes out.  I imagine this is a safety feature in case the ring fails, or
the valve is removed under pressure.

MAKE SURE THE PRESSURE IS TOTALLY RELIEVED!!!!  It's not enough to bleed the
pressure, then set up the puller.  If there's residual beer, pressure might
go up again in the time it takes to set up the clamp and remove the ring.
Your clamp should be rigged to relieve pressure automatically.  It can be
messy, though!

Regards,
Mike Sharp


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:48:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ryan Neily <ryan at neily.net>
Subject: Re: Sankey Anti-Tamper Work Around


It's a wonder I didn't find this in my searches.  I have heard of people
using snap rings to seal the containers, however, I am not sure that this
gives a good of a seal as the tamper ring.

I am just getting started into brewing, so I think that me sticking with
my curent collection of sanky kegs will be more economical in the long run
that converting back and fourth to Cornies.

Plus, I allready have direct draft system that is setup for sanky.

On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Jeff Renner wrote:

> Ryan Neily <ryan at neily.net> writes:
>
> >I have a couple of Sankey kegs that I would like to use for kegging
> >however, I have found that the anti-tamper thing that keeps the valve and
> >rod in place is a bugger to get out and put back in.
> ><snip>
> >I am sure this has been asked here many times before, but I couldn't find
> >any mention of it in the Archives...
>
> I post this on a regular basis.  The last time is at:
>
> http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4027.html#4027-14
>
> Sankeys have advantages and disadvantages compared to Corneys.  I
> typically brew 7.75 gallons and fill a 1/4 bbl. Sankey.  Often I will
> transfer five gallons to a Corney when I've drunk 2.75 gallons.
>
> Jeff
>

- -- 
Ryan Neily
ryan at neily.net

Random Quote:
"Aerodynamics are for people that cant build good engines... - Enzo Ferrari"


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:20:55 -0800
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Indoor Boiling

On or thereabout 4/9/03, Jeff Renner spoke thusly:
>It isn't propane that is the danger, it's carbon monoxide.  Do 
>yourself a favor, Teresa, and spend the money for a good 
>digital-readout carbon monoxide detector.  You're too good an 
>addition to HBD to gas yourself!

Hehehe. Thanks. :-) Always nice to know people don't want to see me 
dead. Seriously though, I only pop in an out of the garage to check 
boil volume, add hops, give a quick stir, etc. I doubt I'm ever in 
the garage during a boil for more than 3-4 minutes at a time. Then 
there's my boyfriend walking through and opening the side garage door 
to go out and smoke all the time, which helps the air flow.

In a car with an exhaust leak, I find I start getting a headache very 
quickly... which, if I am not mistaken, is a CO problem also. I've 
never gotten a headache while brewing in the garage.

Interestingly, a study up here found that indoor air quality in 
Alaskan homes is actually *higher* during the winter, when you'd 
think everything is shut tight, then it is during the summer when 
doors and windows are flung open. The temperature difference between 
indoor and out is so great (-20/30 to +65/70) that just cracking open 
the door for a moment sends a huge gust of cold air through the 
house... or the garage.

Not to say that a CO detector is a bad idea... just wanted to 
reassure everyone I wasn't going to pass out into a vat of boiling 
wort any time soon.
- -- 
Teresa - Two Rivers, Alaska
[2849, 325] Appt. Rennerian
"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices
have very few virtues."  -- Abraham Lincoln


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:22:05 -0500
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com>
Subject: RE: Sankey Anti-Tamper Work Around

Ryan asks about the Kegman conversion kit for Sanke kegs....

I have 8 Sanke kegs that I use.  I quit using soda 
kegs about several months ago and I will never go 
back.  I ordered one of the Kegman kits so see what 
it was like and then realized I only needed the 
big snap ring.  You can order just the snap ring 
for 3 or 4 bucks from the same company.  If you 
need to replace an o-ring then just order it separately.

As for compressing the o-ring so the snap ring 
will go back in I place a 1/2" PVC pipe cap in 
the center of the valve and use a 2 foot piece 
of 3/8" box steel rod that I hook under the keg 
handle and press down on the other end to 
compress the o-ring.  Anything stout enough to 
use as a fulcrum should work.  Get yourself a 
good pair of snap ring pliers to compress the 
snap ring with (and to get it back out).

Philip


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:55:38 -0400
From: "Ed Dorn" <edorn at dukes-stein.com>
Subject: Re: Water treatment

Thanks to all who responded to my request for user-friendly ideas (what,
how much, and when?)for water treatment.  I particularly appreciate John
Palmer's comments, and I'm glad he intends to alter his online manual to
make it even better than it already is.
 
I'm still a bit confused, but it's gratifying to know that I'm not
alone.  I was remiss early on in that Lou Heavner asked me to pass along
a private email he sent me and I failed to do so.  What he advised me
was to try Ken Schwartz's Brewater software.  I found it using Google
and it does appear useful.  But I still needed to learn some chemistry
symbols that I'd forgotten.  I'll try to send Lou's post along after I
send this one.
 
Again, thanks to all who responded.
 
Ed Dorn, Va Beach, VA


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:58:32 -0400
From: "Ed Dorn" <edorn at dukes-stein.com>
Subject: FW: Water treatment

Here are Lou's original comments (he is unable to post).
 
- -----Original Message-----
From: Heavner, Lou [FRS/AUS] [mailto:Lou.Heavner at EmersonProcess.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 3:06 PM
To: Ed Dorn
Subject: re: Water treatment


Ken Schwartz has a homebrewing website with a free piece of software
called Brewater and a document on treating brew water.  They are the
best thing I have ever found for an amateur.  Get them and you may have
all your answers.  
 
Some points to conider:
1)Remember that you don't need to be accurate to the 7th decimal place.
Water chemistry is a minor contributing factor and close is good enough.
Use teaspoons and round to the closest 1/4 tsp.  Theoretically, you
should use enough minerals to treat the full volume of mash and sparge
water plus any topping in the boil.  I just use the quantity based on
how much beer I intend to end up with.  It is probably better to "under
salt" than "over salt" the mash.  BTW, salts don't evaporate, but
undissolved salts may stay with the solids and dissolved salts will be
"lost" in the unrecovered liquid in the lauter tun and kettle.
2)Calcium carbonate (chalk) doesn't dissolve readily in drinking water
and calcium sulfate (gypsum) isn't much better.  I just measure the
mineral additions I wish to add and mix them into the crushed grist.  I
don't treat my mash water directly at all.  Sometimes I will neutralize
my sparge water with phosphoric acid (it is a main ingredient of coca
cola), but usually not.  Lactic acid is just as good.  Some folks have
argued that if the sparge water pH is to alkaline, then you will get
excessive and undesirable leaching of tannins.  I believe that pH is
probably more likely a culprit than high mashout temperatures, but I
have never really detected a problem in the resulting beer when I didn't
lower the sparge pH to around or below 7.  My water isn't as soft as
yours, but not too hard either.
3)If you use the Brewater program, you will probably not be able to
reproduce an exact replica for every type of brewing water.  The first
thing I would give up on is calcium carbonate (chalk) and the most
important thing to shoot for is alkalinity.  In fact, I would never add
chalk unless it was a dark beer or I was trying to reproduce Burton
water.  You shouldn't really have to worry about pH of the water unless
you really add a lot of acid to it.  The salts won't affect pH directly.
They will react with the mash to reduce pH, but this is what is supposed
to happen.  If you have the interest, or if you run into a problem, you
could test the pH of the mash, the wort (pre and post boil) and the
fermented beer.  There are ideal ranges, but again, if you are using
good ingredients and typical processes, it should all happen naturally.
 
I wish I could post to HBD, but it has rejected my posts as multi-mime
for several years.  Pat and I have never been able to figure out why.
So feel free to repost this if you think it would be beneficial.
 
Regards,
 
Lou Heavner
Advanced Applied Technologies Team
Emerson Process Management
Phone: (512) 834-7262
Fax: (512) 832-3199
e-Mail: lou.heavner at emersonprocess.com
<mailto:lou.heavner at emersonprocess.com> 
 
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:37:15 -0500

From: "Ed Dorn" <edorn at dukes-stein.com>

Subject: Water treatment

I've noted with interest a number of posts regarding water treatment
recently, and I'm getting more and more confused. Before I get into my
questions, let me set the context. I've been brewing for almost six
years, all grain for about five years. When I first attended the
all-grain class at the local hb shop, the owner talked briefly about our
local water, and recommended that, for 5 gallons, I add two tsp gypsum
to the mash, and two "capfuls" of lactic acid (based on the container
size he sold) to the sparge water. I dutifully followed his instructions
and for several years brewed terrific beer, mostly American pale ale,
American wheat, and German hefeweizen. I should add that I also use a
water filter, a Pur model attached to the faucet. As an aside, the hb
shop is no longer in business, so I can't address my questions to the
owner.

I guess I've gotten a little bored and want to move into more
challenging areas, so I've gotten interested in the idea of matching
water to various beers. In the literature that is readily available, I
find very little information about how to add treatments, specifically
at what point in the brewing process. The authors do mention certain
types of water adjustments, frequently in parts per million, but little
attention seems to be paid to when or how the adjustment should be made.
Noonan does refer to treating "brewing water" which implies to me that
all water should be treated.

I think that most treatment is done to make the mash more efficient, but
I'm not sure if that's the only thing. I'm also not sure if pH is
important beyond facilitating enzyme activity and preventing leaching of
tannins. You can probably tell that I'm not a chemist, so long texts
with formulae, symbols, and equations cause my eyes to glaze over.

So here are the questions. The most commonly used (in my limited

experience) water treatments seem to be gypsum, lactic acid, salt, Epsom
salt, and calcium chloride. At what point in the brewing process should
these be added? When an amount is given for 5 gallons, should it be
adjusted upward if added early in the process when the total brewing

water used will be much higher (i.e., does the stuff evaporate)? What

do I really need to know about pH? I know that detailed knowledge is not
crucial, because I've made fine beer without ever testing pH. But
ignorance is no longer bliss.

I know that books are written on this subject, and I'd love to find one
that addresses these questions in simple how-to form for the home
brewer. I've read Palmer, Papazian, Daniels, Noonan, Miller, Mosher, and
perhaps the answers are there and I missed them. If anyone has another
good reference, please let me know. I have ProMash, and I can't find
answers there either.

BTW, I'm in Virginia Beach, VA and blessed with soft water. The profile
is as follows: Calcium - 7 ppm, Magnesium - 4 ppm, Sodium - 18 ppm,
Sulfate - 28 ppm, Bicarbonate alkalinity - 20 ppm, Chloride - 17 ppm and
a pH of 7.0.

Private replies are welcome, but I suspect that if I'm confused, others
are also. Then again, maybe I'm just part of the proverbial 10% that
didn't get the word.

Thanks, Ed Dorn



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:14:13 -0400
From: "Ed Dorn" <edorn at dukes-stein.com>
Subject: What's a lager?

Frequently when I'm talking with non-brewing friends, and our hobby
comes up, I'm asked to differentiate between lagers and ales.  As a
brewer, I immediately think things like top-fermenting vs. bottom
fermenting, cold vs. room temperature fermentation, short vs. long
fermentations - in other words, differentiating them in terms of the
brewing process.  What stumps me, though, is how they're different to
the consumer.  Most of my acquaintances seem to think that if a beer is
light-colored it's a lager, and all darker beers are ales.  Obviously
not true.  I have some ideas of my own which may or may not be true;
something along the lines of ales being more full-bodied and aromatic,
while lagers I perceive as crisper.  But I'm really stumped to try to
explain the difference as perceived by the drinker.  Any ideas from the
collective?
 
As an example, how about this?  Take Jeff Renner's CAP and compare it to
the ale version, made with a clean neutral yeast.  If each beer was
served in its prime, and compared together, would there be
characteristics that would readily distinguish one from the other?
 
Thanks, Ed Dorn, Va Beach, VA


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:26:34 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: secondary/priming combined in cornies???

I usually transfer to a glass secondary after the rapid fermentation has 
shortened the dip tubes on a few of my cornies to try priming for 
carbonation (after overcarbing a brown ale and getting a metallic taste) and 
I am flirting with the idea of combining the secondary and priming stages 
using a beer still at +\- 1.020 (an ale five days into primary) and about 
1/2 the normal dextrose.

Anyone doing this now??

Any concerns with overcarbonation or long-term autolysis from the slightly 
larger yeast residue???


Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at (1918, 298) Miles Apparent Rennerian
Vancouver, BC, Canada.






Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:53:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: sour mash oddity?


So today I got around to doing something with my sourmash i've been
letting fester for a few days. Actually 5 days.

The Smell? horrible
The Look? even worse
The Problem? Sugars are gone!

I took a gravity reading and got a paultry 1.012
Something ate my sweet sweet wort!

The little beasties in the 2-row did the job too well?



Steven St.Laurent	403forbidden.net	[580.2,181.4] Rennerian


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:02:54 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: 2003 AHA Board of Advisors Election...FINAL RESULTS

			2003 AHA Board of Advisors Election...FINAL RESULTS

     On behalf of the AHA Board of Advisors, I am pleased to announce the
results of the 2003 AHABOA Election.
     We have, especially now, a talented and dedicated array of brewers that
have given so much to their passion that they have risen to consideration by
the Membership and the Board, and while all are worthy of selection, the
simple fact remains that they are chosen by you, the AHA Membership.
     362 Ballots were cast via the BeerTown website....and 54 Votes were
sent by snail mail, for a total of 416 Voters. While some voters cast only
one vote, and one voter, apparently so excited about voting that while they
filled in their name, membership number and signed the ballot....then failed
to vote by checking any candidates! Then again, 317 Voters checked the
Lallemand Scholarship box and gained an extra entry to "Beer Heaven!"

     The AHA Board of Advisors would like to welcome and congratulate Randy
Mosher, Gordon Strong, and Dave Dixon to the Board of Advisors, and thank
all of the Candidates who offered their expertise and continuing dedication
to brewers...but most of all....those who voted!

Cheers!
Rob Moline
Secretary
AHA Board Of Advisors
Association Of Brewers
www.beertown.org

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 3/25/2003



Return to table of contents

---