---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Wyeast - Ready or Not? ("Matt Harrington")
  Oily lingering bitterness (Hayes Antony)
  Re: Re: indoor boiling (Teresa Knezek)
  CO (Randy Ricchi)
  Campden Tablets ("A.J. deLange")
  RE: Where do you brew and what is in storage... ("Sven Pfitt")
  Beer Bottle Organ (Nathan Kanous)
  ALE vs Lager (Randy Ricchi)
  Re: Rescue Shelter Available... ("Pete Calinski")
  corn flakes (tm) and reusing yeast (Marc Sedam)
  source of excess iron - was: Fixing excess iron problems ("-S")
  Keg Refridgerator (IAN FORBES)
  Environmental brewing temperature ("Dave Burley")
  Moving Brews ("Marcoux, Eric P")
  SWMBO ("Tom White")
  Re: What's a lager? (NO Spam)
  RE: contents of beer cellar ("Dan Gross")
  slow fermentation / low attenuation (Mark Beck)
  Movin' On Up (Mark Guard)
  drill bit for stainless (Marc Sedam)
  secondary/priming combined in cornies??? ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  brewing images to stained glass (Jim Liddil)
  4 gallons, not 5 (Steve Hanlon)
  Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling) ("Kevin Morgan")
  Re: Where do you brew? (mjkid)
  What's a lager? (Leo Vitt)


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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:56:10 -0400
From: "Matt Harrington" <mph1399 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Wyeast - Ready or Not?

Today is April 9, I have a Wyeast that I started yesterday that has already 
swelled to where the bag looks like it's going to pop. The date on it is Nov 
10 2002. Should I use is now or wait the one day per month rule?





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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:34:39 +0200
From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za>
Subject: Oily lingering bitterness

In my quest to clean up my lagers, a new defect has surfaced. My latest
attempt was described as having an oily lingering bitterness. Not too
bitter, or astringent, or out of initial balance, but an unwelcome
aftertaste.

What is the likely cause?

The beer was hopped to 30 IBUs, estimated using the Tinseth method

10% for 90 minutes
70% for 60 minutes
20% for 20 minutes
Followed by a 20 minute whirlpool and 30 minute heat exchange.

I used Tettnanger pellets at about 4,5% alpha acid.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg


Confidentiality Warning
=======================
The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation
are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone
other than the addressee is strictly prohibited.



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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:22:57 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Re: indoor boiling

On or thereabout 4/10/03, Barrett, Bob (R.A.) spoke thusly:
>Teresa says she brews inside, but then she does it in her attached
>garage.  Unless it's heated by something other than her propane
>burner, I would call that brewing outside.

Umm, it's heated by the large, attached, warm mass sharing a wall 
with it, called the house. :-) Actually, due to the lousy job the 
owner/builders we bought the house from did on the furnace ductwork, 
it's also heated by backpressure from the leaky ductwork connections 
on the furnace. Last winter, before we re-did part of the ductwork, 
the garage was usually warmer than the house.

>  Teresa also thinks by living in Alaska you automatically qualify as 
>brewing in the coldest place on earth.

Actually, I think Talkeetna, Alaska enjoys the distinction of the 
coldest recorded temperatures of any year-round 
non-research/industrial-facility human settlement (which excludes the 
South Pole research station, and Prudhoe Bay's oil facilities). At 
least that's what I've heard.

I don't know anyone from Talkeetna though, so I can't say whether or 
not anyone brews there. But Fairbanks does spend most of the winter 
below zero, and Two Rivers is actually usually about 5-10 deg. colder 
than the recorded temps for Fairbanks, because the airport (where the 
weather is recorded) is in a low, warm spot.
- -- 
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
                      -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:22:08 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: CO

Jeff R. mentioned in yesterdays HBD that the CO from these cast iron
burners we all use can build up pretty fast. I don't doubt that he's
right.

What I am wondering is will the CO output be significantly lower if the
burner is turned down low as compared to when it is opened way up and
roaring. The reason I ask is I have been experimenting this winter (I
brew in my basement) with covered boils. I use sankey half barrels for
boiling, and I find that I can completely cover the keg with the lid
from my 10 gallon Vollrath pot. The steam escapes through the handles on
the side of the keg.  There is enough back pressure that I can get a
vigorous boil (without boiling over) with the flame turned WAY down from
where I would have to have it if the keg wasn't covered.

With this arrangement I am now getting the 10% evaporation rate that
George Fix used to promote (as opposed to my usual 20+%), I am using far
less propane, and I assume I am getting less darkening of the wort, all
while achieving a good, kicking boil.

But what about the CO output? I assume it would be lower as well.

Randy
Hancock MI



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:35:15 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Campden Tablets

For Peter: The number of Campden tablets required depends on 1)whether 
they contain the potssium or sodium salt  2) how much they weigh  3) how 
much total chlorine is in the water 4) what fraction of the total 
chlorine is free and what fraction is bound as chloramine. Taking all 
these factors into accout the 1 tablet per 20 gallons number was 
concocted as being sufficient for nearly all conceivable combinations of 
1 - 4. It is overkill in most cases but since the excess metabite winds 
up as sulfur dioxide (which will either reduce something in the mash - 
generally considered a desireable thing) or be expelled during the boil 
a little overage is not problematical.

Test kits for chlorine (types which only test the total and types which 
distinguish between chlorine and chloramine) are readily available at 
pet stores that sell fish. It would be a simple matter to experimentally 
determine how much metabite is needed. For example, one could put in a 
quarter of a tablet, test, add another quarter if necessary, test and so 
on. Note that Campden tablets are not exactly easy to dissolve. Crushing 
them first makes it a little easier but it is likely that there will be 
small bits floating around even after extensive stirring. This is OK.

A.J.



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:54:03 -0400
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Where do you brew and what is in storage...

I generally brew outside even in the winter which can get as cold as -15F, 
but I don't brew then. If it is below 40F I wait for better weather.

My biggest issue is rain. If it is raining, I can brew in the garage with 
the door all the way up so I have a 6' X 10' opening. I set up a fan to blow 
the steam out.

My main stores (recently bottled) are:

Belgian Strong Golden Ale 1.102
Belgian Strong Dark ale 1.092
Belgian trippel 1.082
Rasberry Strawberry Saison (super) 1.079
Rasberry Currant Saison (super) 1.079
Belgian Grand Cru 1.091
Belgian Wit (super)1.069
Belgian Wit 1.050

along with some remnants from last year.

I will continue brewing through the summer for lighter beer to keep in kegs 
in the refrigerator.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck






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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:06:28 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Beer Bottle Organ

Fun with beer bottles.....audio clips in the right hand column.
nathan in madison, wi
http://www.petersontuners.com/news/bbo/index.cfm




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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:18:45 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: ALE vs Lager

Ed Dorn asked about explaining the differences between ale vs. lager to
non-brewers from the drinkers perspective.

I think from that perspective, the first thing that comes to my mind is
esters (ale) vs. clean (lack of esters) lager. Even then, you can think
of some style that will muddy the differentiation, such as kolsch or alt
(ales that are fairly clean), but overall, I think esters vs lack of
esters is a pretty good distinction.

Randy
Hancock, MI



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:34:59 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Rescue Shelter Available...

Reminds me of the add in the newspaper.

"Wanted, woman for long term relationship.  Must like drinking beer, brewing
beer and have own brewing equipment.  Contact via box 123.  Send photo of
brewing equipment and sample of beer."


Ok, Ok, I took some poetic license here.  The add really asked for a woman
that fished and had a boat.  It said to send a picture of the boat.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:45:56 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: corn flakes (tm) and reusing yeast

If you're intending to use breakfast cereal for your corn addition in a 
CAP, a large box will do nicely.  You should use it just as Jeff uses 
polenta in his recipe.  Whatever weight of corn the recipe states, use 
that weight of corn flakes.  One suggestion I'll make is to crush the 
hell out of the flakes while sealed in the bag.  That will help them 
dissolve in the mash.  For the record I added 1/4lb of puffed corn 
cereal in my recent Rochefort 6 clone (was supposed to be a reproduction 
of the great Rochefort 8 experiment done by our friends in the 
Netherlands, but forgot to notice their recipes were for 2.5 
gallons...damn metric system).  Worked fine.  Oh...and I'd use shredded 
wheat for the Belgian.

As for reusing yeast from a dark to a light batch, there's no real 
problem.  On a volume basis you'll barely get a color change.  If this 
really bothers you in concept, then boil and cool a few quarts of water 
and wash the yeast.  Add a quart of sterilized water to your yeast, 
shake like hell, and let the yeast settle.  Decant the water on top. 
 Repeat until you feel better. But really, don't worry about it.  I've 
fermented a schwarzbier then dumped a CAP on it and did not notice any 
serious color change.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:58:01 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: source of excess iron - was: Fixing excess iron problems

Mike Sharp writes ...

>  However, I think world-wide, the main cause of iron in
>drinking water is from steel or iron piping systems, i

I seriously doubt that Mike - tho' I appreciate your otherwise
excellent advice.   Iron is the 4th most abundant atom in the 
earth's crust and I've seen bits of shale often containing very
high levels of iron from all over the great lakes region .  There
are dozens and dozens of USGS reports on iron in aquifers
from  New England to New Mexico. Iron in aquifers is
common.

In the transition areas of low to higher oxygen conditions in water
at moderate pH conditions  a number of bacteria oxidize iron
and reduce sulfate to sulfide. This reduces the water's pH
and can lead to higher dissolved iron levels as well as 
sulfurous aromas.

Anyone (In the US) interested in exploring their ground water
has excellent on-line resources at USGS.
http://capp.water.usgs.gov/gwa/gwa.html

 -S





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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: IAN FORBES <ianforbes at snet.net>
Subject: Keg Refridgerator

I have moved into an apartment and no longer have room
for 2 refrigerators.  I was wondering who has
converted a small fridge or chest freezer into a
dedicated keg fridge.

Please feel free to provide details - like size of
fridge, make, model, how many kegs, how did you set it
up, web links etc.

Thanks,Ian
Meriden, CT (formerly of Hamden, CT)


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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:24:29 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Environmental brewing temperature

Brewsters,

Jim Bermingham brews in Texas in his garage at 105F, Mark Sedam doesn't brew
in the summer as it too hot. Some Northerners are still thawing out their
noses in May.

I just turn on the air conditioning in my vent hooded brewery/winery when it
is too hot and the heater when it is too cold ( which it rarely is) . When
necessary, fermentation is carried out in a temperature controlled fridge or
freezer.  Ain't I lucky!

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley






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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:26:58 -0500
From: "Marcoux, Eric P" <EPMarcoux at pbsj.com>
Subject: Moving Brews

Hello all,
I am putting together a RIMS system and I was interested in purchasing the
RIMS chamber from
Moving Brews.  Unfortunately they seem to be out of business.  Is there
another source for these?
If not I guess I'll be making my own out of copper. 
Thanks for any help.
Eric Marcoux
GIS Analyst
Beltsville, MD  20705
1 (800) 697-7275 Ext. 296



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:53:53 -0400
From: "Tom White" <twhite at dminsite.com>
Subject: SWMBO

Does SWMBO stand for "She Who Makes Brewing Obligatory"?

- --Tom

"Health is overrated."



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:13:41 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: What's a lager?



>"I have some ideas of my own which may or may not be true;
>something along the lines of ales being more full-bodied and aromatic,
>while lagers I perceive as crisper.  But I'm really stumped to try to
>explain the difference as perceived by the drinker.  Any ideas from the
>collective?

The first part is not true.  It is true that when the average Joe
Sixpack thinks of beer, he almost always thinks of Miller Lite,
Coors Lite, Bud, and that stuff.  That's because they bombard us
constantly with ads, and things like Spuds MacKenzie or the
Swedish Bikini team, who we all love.

But ales are not always more full bodied and/or aromatic than
lagers.  Lager styles include the bock family, Bock Beer and all
its kin - Dopplebock, Maibock, Helles Bock, and Eisbock.
(Weizenbock isn't a lager or really a bock).  These lager styles
are not all light in color or body, and are certainly more full
bodied than many, if not most, ale styles.  Lager styles also
include Schwarzbier, Munich Dunkel, and things like Samichlaus,
which claims to be the world's strongest lager - says so right
on the bottle in German - "Das Starkste Bier Der Welt" or "The
Strongest Beer in the World".

I'm not sure where the pre-conception about dark beers
always being ale or dark beers alway s being stronger comes
from.  Its not true, but I have run it to it myself.

Lagers CAN be crisper, but again, that's not always the case.
Pilseners are crisp, bocks are not.  Lagers CAN be lighter in
color, but again, that's not always the case.  It gets further
complicated by the fact that some big breweries advertise
lagers as ales, or lead people to believe that lagers are
ales.  Killian's Red is a prime example of that.  How many
average Joe Sixpacks think Killian's is ale, because its
"dark", and how many even  know that its not even Irish,
but brewed by that great Irish brewery O'Coors, in Golden,
Colorado?  Breweries play alot of games in competing with
each other.  Double Diamond is another one.  I SWEAR there
is no way that's an ale.  It is way too smooth.  I think
that is actually a lager, but it says ale, right on the
label.

I'd say as a rule, in general, ales "have more esters" or are
"a little fruitier", due to the yeast strains and fermentation
temps.  But even that is not always true.  Altbiers can be as
smooth as lagers, because they're aged cold, like lagers.  But
they're fermented with ale yeast.  And California Common,
even though it is fermented with lager yeast, is not very
lager-like.

Comparing the general category of "Ale" to the general category
of "Lager" is comparing apples and IBM's.  It's too general. You
have to take each on a case by case basis.

Bill



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:34:49 -0400
From: "Dan Gross" <degross at starpower.net>
Subject: RE: contents of beer cellar

Marc Sedam asks for a list beers in the cellar.

Currently I have:
American Amber
English Stout
Belgian Strong Ale
CAP  (my very first, in the secondary now for about three weeks)

Also, I have a brand new baby boy, less than two days old, but he's not in
the cellar ;)

Dan Gross
Olney, Md



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:01:06 -0700
From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu>
Subject: slow fermentation / low attenuation

I've got about 6 all-grain batches under my belt after many years of 
extract brewing.  However, with my all-grain batches I've noticed that my 
fermentations seem to be taking much longer than they did when I brewed 
with extract.

For example: I've got an IPA that I brewed 12 days ago.  It's still 
fermenting quite strongly (foam on the top, maybe 3 or 4 bubbles from the 
airlock per minute).  In my extract days, this beer would have fermented 
out in a week; now at nearly two weeks it continues to ferment.

I also recently brewed a Belgian triple using White labs abbey yeast (OG 
1.083).  After nearly three weeks in the primary (2 weeks of that it was 
held at 75 deg.) the gravity had only dropped to 1.040.  I'm hoping it will 
drop more in the secondary, but there's not much activity now.

Some details about my brewing:

I have always done single step infusion mashes lasting 1 hour.  I mashed 
the IPA at 154 deg., and the triple at 151 deg.  Using the formulas in Ray 
Daniels' book, I calculate that my mash efficiencies are around 75%.

I make 1 pint yeast starters, and in both batches mentioned above I had 
vigorous fermentations less than 12 hours after pitching.

I have temperature control of my primary.  The IPA has been at 68 deg. for 
two weeks; as stated above the triple was at 75 deg for nearly 2 weeks 
(when I had to make room for the IPA) and then the temperature of the 
triple dropped to basement temp (60-65 deg.)

Why are these beers fermenting so much slower than my extract beers did?

I first thought of low pitching rates and cool temperatures, but I've been 
making starters (which I didn't bother with before) and I've got the temp 
control system.  Neither of these improvements has helped.

Would a multi-step mash help?  Would this provide more yeast 
nutrients?  Could I just add yeast nutrient to my boils?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Mark Beck
Walla Walla, WA




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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Guard <rbaronsfan at yahoo.com>
Subject: Movin' On Up

Greetings,

I have been brewing 5 gal all grain batches for several years
now and would like to move up to 10 gal and I am looking for
advice on a mashtun.

Currently I mash in a 5 gal SS pot with EZ-Masher, heating my
sparge water in a 2nd 5 gal pot. I have a 10 gal Polarware kettle
(no spigot or anything) for boiling. I mash on stovetop, maintain
temp by putting mashtun in oven and move sparge water via a 1/2
gal plastic measuring cup the good old fashioned way - manually.

My plan is to beg, borrow or obtain from my local scrapyard a
1/2 barrel Sanke for my new boil kettle, maybe adding a spigot.
But my inquiry here is about a new mash tun. I had thought for
sometime now that I would just get a 10 gal Gott w/false bottom
& spigot attached from BBMB (or install a Bazooka screen). But
recently I've started thinking about the mash/lauter tun from
Hobby Beverage Equipment (www.minibrew.com - their ads appear
in Zymurgy). This is a plastic tun with built in false bottom

Does anyone have any experience with this product? They say it
holds up to 35 lbs of grain, more than a 10 gal Gott I believe.
It also has a sight glass and a sparge head to distribute the
hot liquor. Does this item hold mash temps well? I doubt that
it would hold steady mash temp as well as a cooler designed
for this but would there be much of a difference? How big of
a spigot does it have (1/2 in??? - web site doesn't say)?

I'll probably stick to manually ladling the sparge water for now...
one thing at a time but at some later point wish to add a HLT to
mechanize (or de-laborize) my workload some.

Thanks for any help you can lend.

Steve Nagley
Old Forge, Pa
(421.4 , 98.7 AR)



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:43:23 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: drill bit for stainless

Hey all,

I was searching the archives for drilling holes in stainless steel and 
Zymie suggested using a step-drill bit.  I found two...one called a 
Unibit and another from Greenlee.  Both will drill holes between 1/8 and 
7/8".  Did anyone actually do this?  If so could you tell me which one 
you used so I know what definitely would work?  The Unibit is made of 
molybdenum and coated with titanium, so I think that will work.  The 
Greenlee bit was black with no mention of its composition.

Could you respond to me directly as well as to the HBD?  I have holes to 
punch this weekend.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:56:17 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: secondary/priming combined in cornies???

My first post somehow got mangled, so let's try this again...


I usually transfer to a glass secondary after the rapid fermentation has 
shortened the dip tubes on a few of my cornies to try priming for 
carbonation (after overcarbing a brown ale and getting a metallic taste) and 
I am flirting with the idea of combining the secondary and priming stages 
using a beer still at +\- 1.020 (an ale five days into primary) and about 
1/2 the normal dextrose.

Anyone doing this now??

Any concerns with overcarbonation or long-term autolysis from the slightly 
larger yeast residue???


Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at (1918, 298) Miles Apparent Rennerian
Vancouver, BC, Canada.






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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:09:18 -0400
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu>
Subject: brewing images to stained glass

I am looking for images or images of windows similar to that found on
the apr/may issue of Ale Street News or like that at
http://www.cmg.net/belgium/clubhub/message/.  any body got any other
similar designs or know of clip art collections that might contain
such stuff?

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT


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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:50:28 -0400
From: Steve Hanlon <asciibaron at comcast.net>
Subject: 4 gallons, not 5

my wort has been fermenting since the 4th in 4 gallons, not the full 5.
seems i got distracted when my 2 yr old son came home.  in my rush to get it
out of the way, i forgot to add the final gallon.

is my beer ruined?  will it simply be very strong?  please advise

 -steve



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:15:39 -0400
From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net>
Subject: Outdoor brewing (was Indoor boiling)

For those of you that brew outside in below freezing weather, how do
you chill your wort?
This past winter I tried brewing out in the cold, then my garden hose
froze solid while I
was trying to chill the wort with my counter flow chiller.  Of course
this would also be a
problem with an immersion chiller.

Kevin, brewing in south jersey




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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:24:56 -0400
From: mjkid at rochester.rr.com
Subject: Re: Where do you brew?

Greetings,

As a long time subscriber and lurker who has very recently returned 
to brewing, I thought I'd chime in on this one. I stopped brewing for 
several years because it didn't work out in our townhouse. Way too 
cramped in the kitchen, and the basement...the less said about the 
basement, the better. Two years ago we bought a house, an old 
house, with a finished basement, with a full kitchen. Unfortunately, it 
was carpeted, and beer making and carpet do not a good 
combination make;-) So, last fall I finally got rid of the carpet and 
had the floor retiled. (Actually, I had to-our hot water tank burst 
while we were on vacation and ruined the carpet). So I now have 
my own kitchen to brew in! Plus, our family room is down there as 
well, so I have tunes and a big screen TV to pass the time while 
mashing and boiling. Makes brewing really enjoyable, and SWMBO 
doesn't have me cluttering up the upstairs kitchen. And I do a lot 
less lugging around of carboys, etc.

Mike Kidulich
320.8, 76.8 AR



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com>
Subject: What's a lager?


Ed Dorn is looking for a description that explains the difference
between lager and ale to a consumer.

>not true.  I have some ideas of my own which may or may not be true;
>something along the lines of ales being more full-bodied and aromatic,
>while lagers I perceive as crisper.

Full bodied -- There are some very full bodied lagers.  Doppelbocks,
Icebocks, special lagers like EUK 28, Samiclaus.

Sometimes I want to say - fruity esters are present in ales and
abscent in lagers.  
However, there are exceptions about ales made like lagers - cream ale,
Kolsch, alt.  

Some ales have more hop character than lagers.  
Belgian ales usually don't, Scottish dont.
Pilsners can have a lot of hop character.

It seems every way you might describe it, has exceptions.

Ed, I don't have the answer for you either.

 - ----------

Boil inside or out?
My history is more out if weather is near or above freezing.
I have not made beer yet in the two months I have been in 
Nebraska.  My brewing history is in southern Minnesota.

I have been reluctant to boil in the garage, because I expect
streem to become ice in the garage, causing damage to the 
building.

When boiling inside (on the kitchen stovetop), I run the vent
from the heat up to boil until well after the pot is removed
from the kitchen.




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Leo Vitt
Sidney, NE



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