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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: slow fermentation ("Dan Gross")
  beer in storage (Randy Ricchi)
  Challenger whole hops (Randy Ricchi)
  quick disconnects ("Patrick Hughes")
  re: 'spurment with Coffee Stout ("Mark Tumarkin")
  RE: Challenger Hops ("Steve Jones")
  Re: Challenger hops ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  SWMBO (johncampbell)
  From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu>, 4HF and apology ("Doug A Moller")
  4 gallons not 5 / Where I brew / SWMBO (David Harsh)
  mending fences, congrats Sean ("Dave Burley")
  What's in the cellar? ("Eyre")
  Re: Wort chilling ("Michael O'Donnell")
  THANKS to HBD brewers carbonation advice, Heather Ale, (Michele Maatta)
  On what do you brew? (Was Where do you brew) ("Bowman Street Bewery")
  re. fruit saisons ("John Misrahi")
  Fruit Wheat Beer (Aaron Legge)
  First Brew: Turky Fryer? (Ryan Neily)
  Challenger whole hops (or plugs) ("Kevin Morgan")
  RIMS Chamber ("Lou King")
  Re: Experimentation APA ("Mike Maag")
  Inkjet & Laser Toner Cartridges ~ Save upto 89% (Zoey)


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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:01:09 -0400
From: "Dan Gross" <degross at starpower.net>
Subject: RE: slow fermentation

Mark asks about fermentation that seems to be slower than normal.

Mark,
First let me say that I don't really know the answer to your questions, but
I will venture a couple of guesses.  It is possible that with all grain
mashes you are producing many more complex sugars than one has in an extract
brew.  My very limited understanding of the chemistry of the mash allows me
to make some wild guesses... I would think that the complex sugars you have
in the mash may take some time for the yeast to consume.  I am sure there is
a lot more to it than that, and hopefully others will be able to shed some
light on it for you.
I have brewed all grain for about 7 years and most of my normal gravity
beers take a week or less in the primary if I pitch enough fresh yeast.
While living in Gettysburg the local brewer would give me a pint jar of
fresh yeast slurry from his fermentors and those beers would usually be done
with the primary in 3 or 4 days.  My most recent Belgian tripel took about a
month in the primary due to the high gravity.
Dan Gross
Olney, Md



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:55:41 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: beer in storage

In Saturday's HBD, Bob Barrett gives us a list of his cellared beer. Bob, 
can you give me directions to your house, and let me know where you hide 
your key?



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:09:23 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Challenger whole hops

Just Hops probably has them. The website says "1999" price list because 
they don't really keep the site up-to-date, so call them to make sure. I've 
ordered from them before, good company. Big selection.

One thing; this site is pop-up city :^(

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/justhops/



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:43:32 -0500
From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc at eriecoast.com>
Subject: quick disconnects

A question about quick disconnects was posted several days ago. US Plastics
has the best price and selection, polysulfone and polypropelene, by far.
They offer great service and lots of useful plastic items. 1/2" I.D. braided
food grade poly tubing .21 p/ft compared to over .60 p/ft at Home Depot.
Thanks to Steve Alexander for referring this site. These site is definately
worth checking out.
Patrick Hughes





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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:41:05 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: 'spurment with Coffee Stout

Darrell,

Thought I'd send on the following that a friend emailed to me just yesterday.
Let's hear it for Coffee Stout, indeed!
It may do more than just keep you awake & happy.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL

ps - The current thread about winter brewing is mind-'chilling'. Y'all have
been confirming my belief that much of the country north of here is
uninhabitable for a good part of the year. North FL is as far North as this
boy wants to
live. If I want to see snow, I'll come for a short visit .... but not on one
of those outside brew days. Maybe we can sit inside by a fire & drink some
Winter Warmer or Imp Stout?

I brew outside; in the winter it's comfortable, in the summer ....well, I just
try to stay in the shade.



EXPERIMENTAL 'COFFEE COCKTAIL' TESTED AS WAY TO LIMIT STROKE DAMAGE
April 10, 2003
American Heart Association
DALLAS  An experimental drug delivering the potency of two cups of strong
coffee and a mixed drink has been shown to limit stroke-induced brain damage
in animals. Now, this agent has been demonstrated to be safe in a small
pilot study of ischemic stroke patients reported in today's rapid access
issue of Stroke: Journal of the American Heart Association.
This safety study is a crucial prelude to testing the effectiveness of the
combination in patients. In previous studies in rats, the size of brain
damage was reduced up to 80 percent when a combination of caffeine and
ethanol, called caffeinol, was administered within three hours after an
artery supplying blood to the brain was blocked (ischemic stroke).
Those studies demonstrated that the combination of caffeine and ethanol may
reduce the amount of damage after stroke. Neither caffeine or alcohol
offered protection alone, but the combination was protective, says senior
author James C. Grotta, M.D., professor of neurology and director of the
stroke
program, University of Texas-Houston Medical School, Houston, Texas.
In this study, Grotta and colleagues sought to determine the safety and
tolerability of caffeinol in humans.
Researchers administered the combination to 23 stroke patients (16 women,
average age 71). The patients represented a diverse racial mix: nine white,
nine black, four Hispanic and one Asian.
Our goal was to see if we could safely achieve the same blood levels of
caffeinol that we achieved in our animal studies, he says. We discovered
that we could use even lower doses than we used in the animal studies and
achieve the blood levels that were neuroprotective in animals.
Moreover caffeinol, which is given by infusion, can be safely administered
to patients who are also receiving clot-busting treatment with tissue
plasminogen activator (tPA).
Eight patients received both caffeinol and tPA. One patient with a very
severe stroke who received caffeinol and tPA suffered an intracerebral
hemorrhage (bleeding within the brain), but Grotta says an independent
safety officer concluded it was not related to caffeinol.
The first set of four patients were given low-dose caffeinol (caffeine 6
milligrams per kilogram plus ethanol 0.2 grams per kilogram). That dose did
not achieve the target blood level, so the dose was increased (8 mg/kg
caffeine and 0.4 g/kg ethanol) in the next group of 19 patients. That
achieved target blood levels, he says. However, Grotta cautioned that the
ethanol level may need further adjustment because a patient with a history
of heart disease developed reversible heart failure at that dose level. It
is unclear how caffeinol works to protect the brain, but it is being
studied.
A randomized, placebo-controlled trial is needed to determine the
neuroprotective effect of this combination. In addition, Grotta plans a
study that will combine caffeinol with thermo-cooling of stroke patients.
Other studies have suggested that cooling the brain can limit stroke damage,
and Grotta says that combining cooling and caffeinol may extend that
protection.







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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:12:46 -0400
From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: RE: Challenger Hops

Jeff,

Stout Billy's (http://www.stoutbillys.com/) has Challenger
plugs listed on their site.

However, I'm not sure if they are actually available. They
also have Mittelfruh plugs listed, but a few months ago I
asked if they had any, and they said that they have been
unable to get any for several months now.

Steve





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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:12:37 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Challenger hops

Jeff,

A good source for leaf hops is

http://www.myhomebrew.com

They have UK Challenger both leaf and pellet. They also have another web
site that focuses on just hops with a wider selection.  The price list is
dated 1999, but I have bought from them more recently.  This is where I get
my Spalt leaf for making Alt

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/justhops/index.html


NAJASC

Reif Hammond
Durham, NH






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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:22:19 -0500
From: johncampbell at comcast.net
Subject: SWMBO

Check out Rod Peterson's history of SWMBO here
http://www.woodbutcher.net/swmbo.htm
He has the most complete answer I have found to date.
Feel free to email me off list if you have other references that are
interesting.
I collect this kind of trivia.

Cyserman



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:23:14 -0500
From: "Doug A Moller" <damoller at intergate.com>
Subject: From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu>, 4HF and apology

Mark,
You may need to aerate your wort. When you brewed with extracts did you do a
partial boil then add water? When you add water after the boil you are
aerating your wort, but since you are doing full wort boils you will need to
aerate your wort to get the best fermentation results. Be sure to aerate
when you pitch your yeast!

From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: CO/the boil

What are you referring to with
4HF?

And I apologize for my remarks on chloramines removal. If you use a carbon
filter it has to be a special one built for chloramines removal!

Doug
one who drinks to little





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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:28:07 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: 4 gallons not 5 / Where I brew / SWMBO

> Steve Hanlon wrote:
> "my wort has been fermenting since the 4th in 4 gallons, not the full 
> 5.
> seems i got distracted when my 2 yr old son came home.  in my rush to 
> get
> it out of the way, i forgot to add the final gallon.

In my early brewing days I was making an "amber ale" from a 4 gallon 
recipe - but I followed all the standard procedure of extract brewing 
for a 5 gallon batch.  The end result was a "red ale"  that was 
extraordinarily popular among those who weren't big fans of my other 
brews.  The beer was fine.  Just unimpressive.  So don't worry.  Taste 
it when its done fermenting - you may like it as is and you may decide 
it needs the final gallon.
- -----------
	For several years I brewed on my deck - never rained out but chilly 
occasionally.  The good part was that the head space underneath is 
about 10 feet owing to my house being on a hill and having a walk out 
basement.  Chilling after the boil was about a five minute affair with 
that much pressure to drive the hot wort through the chiller.
	I've recently obtained an apartment stove that my keg fits on top of 
nicely and have a kitchen hood installed over it - works fine.  Spousal 
issues were minor as I installed this where my boiler used to be in 
"my" workroom.  No CO (and I have a digital meter), but there's no sink 
in that room of my basement or water supply, so I'm in the process of 
adding it.  Its always something....
- -----------
	My wife tolerates my brewing, but does require a belgian ale - either 
a dubbel or belgian strong dark ale - to be available at all times.  
I've made several good strong dark ales and they are always 
commandeered as private stock.  I plan on entering a beer and find the 
keg empty.  The good part to this is that there are several commercial 
beers she finds acceptable.  The bad part is they are Unibroue's Tres 
Pistoles and Avery's The Reverend....  Maudite will do in a pinch as 
will most trappistes.  As least she hasn't developed the same 
enthusiasm for Rochefort or Westvleteren!
	I understand Unibroue is going to start 20 liter keg distribution in 
our area soon.  I'll be there!

Dave Harsh
Bloatarian Brewing League					Cincinnati, OH



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 09:32:11 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: mending fences, congrats Sean

Brewsters:

What I want to know is how Jim Bermingham knew I waited until it got to 105F
here ( which it almost never, if ever, does) before I started mending my
fences.  Actually that's winter work and all done.  Spraying my grapevines,
now that's a different matter.
- ---------------------
Sean Smith, my son's friend since childhood and producer of beer for my son's
recent wedding last October, just won a first place for his Dark Steam in the
American Lager category of the Bay Area Mashers contest in Berkeley CA. This
was one of the beers served at the wedding.  Congrats. Sean

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 09:51:28 -0400
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: What's in the cellar?

Hi all.. this post is in response to the question of "what's in the cellar"
in terms of beer for the summer.. Being as it's just barely in the 40's here
in CT for what seems like the first time all winter, I reply that it's too
cold in the basement for anything. My beer has it's own bedroom on the
second floor of the house! What lucky beer.. ;) In the summer, they'll all
get moved into the basment, however, as the upstairs get's way too hot. But,
to survive that hot summer, the beers that will refresh me include an
Oatmeal stout, a basic Brown ale, (all in bottles..). A SNPA clone being
bottled this weekend will also join those. Outside the beer realm, 4 gal. of
fermented S&S cider will join them in the fight to battle thirst, as will
(maybe.. I'm still pondering this one..) a 2 gal. experiment with Milk Wine.
As I said.. that last is a big maybe right now.. but I couldn't resist
trying the recipe. I plan to brew right through the summer, however.. so the
list will grow, and as they are consumed, will also shorten. But then,
that's the best part.. :)

Mike

Please note my new email address:

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:17:05 -0700
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Wort chilling

At 12:36 AM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> > For those of you that brew outside in below freezing weather, how do
> > you chill your wort? This past winter I tried brewing out in the cold,
> > then my garden hose froze solid while I was trying to chill the wort

A bit ironic that you have trouble cooling your wort because it is too cold!

Where I live, we have serious water shortages, so I have always been 
reluctant to free-run potable water through my chiller.  Instead, I use a 
bucket with about 10 gallons of ice and use a sump pump to recirculate it 
through my chiller.  If the snowbanks are towering over your faucet, you 
could use a couple of gallons of warm water to start so that the hoses 
don't freeze... then add shovels full of snow to the bucket to bring the 
temp down.  Since you always have a hot-water stream coming out of the 
kettle, you should be able to keep the temp of the circulating water at 
whatever temp you need to avoid freezing, but still get your wort temp down 
lickity-split.

mike
Monterey, CA




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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:16:13 -0400
From: Michele Maatta <mrmaatta at mtu.edu>
Subject: THANKS to HBD brewers carbonation advice, Heather Ale,

I just wanted to say THANKS SO MUCH for all the QUICK responses to my 
dilemma of priming with malto-dextrin!   I opted for the "syringe & re-cap 
method.  In order to ensure enough head space and NOT have to decant any 
precious
"Nectar of the Gods"  to waste I cut the suggested 2 cups of water to 
priming sugar to one, did the math on the number of bottles, and got a 
syringe from my local drug store for free and uncapped and injected each 
bottle with 5 ml of this solution.  I had two different kinds that differed 
in amount of priming sugar, so I did this twice  All total I fixed 99 
bottles of beer!!! (sounds like an old kid's song i used to sing!!)  I will 
give a report on the quality, just in case some other fellow brewer falls 
upon these hard times!!!   But Thanks everyone for the input.

Jodie Davis asks about Heather Ale~~   Jodie, I have not tried this yet, 
but have wanted to.  Please let me know how this goes when you DO brew 
this. I have been toying with the idea, as my experience in brewing grows.

Jason Poll says ~~ Outdoor chilling in the Northwoods, and Airborne Amber 
Ale is another story~~

Since Jason is my brew buddy, I couldn't let this one go!!! ;-)  He makes a 
VERY GOOD POINT about the brew buddy!  It is a great idea to find a brew 
buddy because you have a check an balance on things. One brewer can remind 
you that it is priming sugar in your bucket BEFORE it  gets dumped down the 
drain!!!  A couple extra hands always is a bonus in brewing when one has to 
muscle around a brew kettle of 10 gallons of wort. We did opt for the 
snowbank method with 2 of us packing snow regularly about the keg in an 
ambient temperature of about 15F.  It did take about 40-45 
minutes.  However, when I did it myself on a 5 gallon batch, it was not as 
efficient.  I would suggest the homemade wort chiller!  Much safer easier 
to handle, and chills in 10 minutes flat IF that.  However, the brew buddy 
system is a GREAT way to learn and enjoy brewing together!!

As far as the Airborne Amber Ale, reading Jason's reference to it made me 
laugh out loud!!! It is one of those 'brew' stories we all have..like the 
brewer that mentioned the #2 Pencil Ale.  It is what makes brewing a 
JOY!  Each batch has a reference "Name"  .......and a story to go along.  I 
will actually miss the day when I/we brew a batch without a funny story and 
name to give it....(e.g.  Bucket Bomb Hefeweisen, Airborne Amber Ale, Busta 
Nut Brown!)  This is the greatest hobby I have EVER taken up.

Thanks HBD Brewers and Keep ON BREWIN'!

Cheers!

Michele





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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:08:57 -0500
From: "Bowman Street Bewery" <homebrewer at tds.net>
Subject: On what do you brew? (Was Where do you brew)

Well as long as there has been some discussions as to where we all brew,
and what we have in storage, why not throw "on what do you brew" into
the mix.

For the longest time I used the kits you can get in stores. then I went
all grain about a year ago. I was hooked. Inside the past year, I have
bought an assortment of kettles, pots, pans, kettles, hoses, pumps,
copper pipes and bottles. My affliction took a turn for the worse when I
actually built a brewery in my basement. and although I don't have
pictures of the place in its entirety, I do have pictures of my new RIM
system cozily housed in the corner of the room. I've posted some
pictures at this location (website under development):
http://personalpages.tds.net/~homebrewer/ 

Please note, that the RIM part is electrical, the kettle is a steam
driven jacketed kettle, and the mash temperature is holding nicely at
156 degrees, and the counter flow chiller is version 1.3b.

As far as what is in storage..
Fermenting
	Octoberfest
	India Pale Ale

Kegged and enjoying
	Maibock
	Scotch Ale

In storage with secret treasure map to reveal location
	2001 Barley Wine
	2002 Barley Wine

 -Matt Schultz
Bowman Street (home)Brewery
Madison, WI



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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:17:04 -0400
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: re. fruit saisons

The other day, Sven Pfitt listed the batches of homebrew he is currently
enjoying..among others were a Raspberry Currant Saison, and a Raspberry
Strawberry Saison. That really sounds delicious....And in a couple of months
I should have plenty of berries.

Sven,
I love Saisons, (have brewed a couple recently) and I like fruit beers as
well.

Would you be so kind as to share your recipes and procedures with us?

thanks,

John Misrahi
Montreal, Canada

 [892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km)

"Actually John it uses a very complex algorithm to determine your average
time between "Generate" clicks, and from that can it figures out how drunk
you are, and what styles of beer you prefer.  Obviously, you prefer obscure
Belgians!" - Drew Avis

Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"





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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:17:06 -0300
From: Aaron Legge <alegge at accesswave.ca>
Subject: Fruit Wheat Beer


I am planning on brewing my first wheat beer as a blueberry wheat ale. 
I have found some recipes that I am going to use as a basis for creating
mine own, 
however I have run into a problem, when do I add the fruit?  I have
found 
recipes that call for adding the fruit just after the boil, allowing it
to 
steep and then leave it in the primary other recipes have called for
putting 
the fruit in the secondary and racking the beer on top of it, I have
also 
seen recipes calling for a fruit extract being used to prime the beer
with 
extract prior to bottling or kegging.  Has anyone had any experience
with 
brewing fruit wheat beers?  What seems to be the best time to put the
fruit in? 
I am hoping to have a taste of the blueberry but nothing overpowering

Cheers,

Aaron Legge: Nova Scotia, Canada




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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:37:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ryan Neily <ryan at neily.net>
Subject: First Brew: Turky Fryer?


I am getting everything ready for my first bre next weekend.  My local
walmart has Turkey Fryer kits on sale for a mere $15.00.  It comes with a
descent burner (60,000 BTU) as well as a large Aluminum pot/cover and
thermometer.

Will this pot be ok for my brewing?  I have heard some people say that
Aluminum is not good for brewing beer.

Would the turky fryer bee a good investment for me to start out my
brewing?  Or should I invest in something else for outside brewing.
Inside is not possible because I have a glass/smoothtop stove, and my wife
would have a fit if it got messy...

- -- 
Ryan Neily
ryan at neily.net

Random Quote:
"Aerodynamics are for people that cant build good engines... - Enzo Ferrari"


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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:17:09 -0400
From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net>
Subject: Challenger whole hops (or plugs)

Jeff:
	Challenger whole hops are available from http://www.crosby-baker.com/
tho they don't sell retail.  You should be able to get them thru your
LHBS

Kevin, brewing in south jersey




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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:33:33 -0400
From: "Lou King" <lking at pobox.com>
Subject: RIMS Chamber

"Marcoux, Eric P" <EPMarcoux at pbsj.com> was looking for sources for a
RIMS chamber.

I was in the same boat you are in a year or so ago.  I was unable to
find a vendor for a chamber, but I found it was more fun to make it
myself anyway.

Check out http://www.lousbrews.com and hit the RIMS button to see the
copper chamber I made, and possibly some other hints on RIMS
construction.  You'll have to scout around for the 1.5" copper pipe,
because you just can't get that at Lowes or Home Depot, at least not in
my locale.

Lou King
Ijamsville, MD



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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:28:48 -0400
From: "Mike Maag" <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Re: Experimentation APA

Phil says:

"I'm a new brewer and wanting to experiment with different ingredients to get
an sensory understanding of them.  I am working in styles starting with
American Pale Ales.  Anyone have any advice on which variables to mess around
with first--yeast, hops, crystal? Any other advice is welcome related to
APA's."

The main sensory aspect of APA is hops.  I would recommend a single hop APA as
a starting point.  Cascade is a good choice, since it is both a good bittering
and flavor and aroma hop.
Next, repeat the single hop APA with another of the American Hops, cascade,
centennial, chinook, or columbus.  Columbus or centennial would be good
choices,  as chinook is considered as too rough for flavor or aroma.
Next, try using centennial as the bittering hop, and cascade as the flavor
hop.
Try dry hopping in the secondary or corny.
Regarding malt, you  probably already are using crystal malt.  Add a pound of
Munich malt (if not all grain, just do a mini mash with a lb of pale malt and
1/2 gal water at 150 for 1 hr).  Chew some of the Munich before brewing with
it, then check the nice "toasted bread" flavor it gives the ale.
For yeast, Chico (Wyeast 1056) is a classic (Sierra Nevada), but a little
neutral. Try a fruitier American yeast, check the descriptions on the web
sites.  Wyeast 1272 American Ale II is a good choice.

Mike Maag, in the Shennandoah Valley, VA.





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Date: 2003-04-13 22:56:09
From: Zoey <zoey at excuria.com>
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