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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Palm-Pen-Problem (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: busted wort chiller (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: busted wort chiller (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Palm Pilot Brewing Issues (joel trojnar)
  RE: First Wort Hopping ("Doug Hurst")
  RE busted wort chiller ("Mike")
  Starch haze? ("C Cameron")
  RE:  A Couple of Questions (Ronald La Borde)
  RE: busted wort chiller ("Everett Arndt")
  Extremely high ABV (G C)
  RE Kegging Eqiupment ("Leonard, Phil")
  Split wort chiller ("Andrew Moore")
  Starch haze microbiology and biochemistry (Robert Sandefer)
  Two or three things (Wil)
  Mash level controller (Bill Tobler)
  Protein haze, Starch Haze, ("Sven Pfitt")
  Brew Pubs in Yelm, WA (huck7248)


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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:41:04 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Palm-Pen-Problem

Hi Rick
i see your problem.(I think so at least)
You could take the Harddrive out of your PC (or Mac), and take out
the very strong magnets inside.(if you need your PC for synchronizing
your Palm, leave your PC as it is, and buy a strong magnet)
The tips of the more expensive ball pens seem to be magnetic.
So you could glue a small magnet into your palm wallet to hold the
pen in place. But then you have to keep your creditcards and other
magnetic media away from it. (i had my ATM card erased by a hotel-
room key in Greece last year. The magnet on it was to switch on the
lights while in the room)
The other idea that comes to my mind, is a small tube with a o-ring
inside.(i don't know if these rubber-gaskets are called o-rings in
english)
I hope it helps

Thomas



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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:00:32 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: busted wort chiller

Hi Drew
you could take a short piece of copper tube that fits on your chiller
tube like a sleve. The tighter the better. Clean the surfaces and 
solder or braze it. Be shure to take lead-free solder (tin-silver).

Thomas



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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:22:26 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: busted wort chiller

Drew Buscareno, alias Emily E Neufeld wrote:

>my 10 gallon copper wort chiller split (cracked open) after some water
>froze inside. aside from scrapping it and buying a new one, is there any
>sealant or solder that can be safely used without leaching into the beer
>or dissolving at boiling temperatures?

This happened to a friend's chiller in storage after he stopped 
brewing, and another friend bought the entire brewery, including the 
chiller.  There were probably a dozen inch to inch-and-a-half long 
splits.

She took it to our local fantastic hardware store, Stadium Hardware, 
to ask what could be done, and Mike, the owner, took pity on her (I 
guess) and hammered each split closed and sweated lead-free solder on 
each closed split to seal it.

This is why I patronize Stadium Hardware and similar locally owned 
and operated businesses rather than the big-box stores.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:45:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: joel trojnar <joeltrojnar at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Palm Pilot Brewing Issues

Rick:

You want to glue a metal pen cap to leather.  Glueing
to metal can be a challenge since there are no
physical sites for adhesion due to it's smooth
surface.
You need something that is flexible that will bend and
stretch with the leather, but not too soft so that the
bond will creep away whenever you apply a force to the
cap.
Is the surface of the leather smooth or is it somewhat
"furry".  If its smooth, rough it up a bit with
sandpaper or a needle.  You want areas where the glue
can dig in and get stuck.

Here is my rec:

There is also a urethane adhesive out there called
Gorilla Glue.  It's not as high tech as they make it
seem.  Simply MDI and polyol to form a prepolymer.  It
needs some moisture to finish off the reaction. 
Urethanes offer flexibility, strength, solvent
resistance, and temperature resistance.  The product
will foam up a bit, which will make sure all the nooks
and crannies are filled.  Just follow the directions.

 -Joel
Chemist / Brewer 



'Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 05:15:08 -0400 (GMT)
From: rickdude02 at earthlink.net
Subject: Palm Pilot Brewing Issues

I love my Palm, but I have a problem that I'm hoping
that the vast
experience here can help me with.

My Palm is in a leather "wallet."  It looks like a
little leather 
notebook and on one side is the Palm, and on the other
is a 
notepad (for quickly jotting brewing stats when I
don't want to 
take the time to make manual entries-- ya'll see how
this is 
brewing related, right?).  There's a little sleeve in
the center 
of the wallet that holds a small pen.  I have filled
the slot with 
a Fisher Space Pen (one of those pens that writes
upside down and 
underwater) because it is short and fits perfectly.

Here's the problem-- there's no elastic in the leather
sleeve.  It 
is becoming "broken in" and no longer holds the pen
firmly.  I 
can't quickly jot down my brewing notes when my pen
keeps slipping 
out of the sleeve while I'm not looking (so far the
pen has not 
time).  I've been thinking about using some adhesive
to hold the 
metal pen-top in the sleeve, but I don't know what
will bond 
leather to metal.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, because I have
having to 
search earnestly for this pen while I should be
writing down vital 
stats while brewing.

(Really-- this is a brewing question!)

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.'




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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:35:25 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: First Wort Hopping


Joel asks about Mash hopping: "If the wort goes through
the boil, wouldn't all the acids isomerize and the  flavor oils boil
off."  

Our own Marc Sedam has a good description of Mash Hopping on the Paddock
Wood website:
http://www.paddockwood.com/guide_mash_hopping_sedam.html

Apparently the hop oils are not lost during the boil.  The process is
not well understood.  There is reason to believe (from Jean De Clerck)
that the oils form bonds during mash pH and temperature ranges which are
consequently not broken during the boil.  Clearly someone needs to do
some additional research into the chemistry behind this phenomenon.

Perhaps there is new information out there someone could post or maybe
Marc could be persuaded to explain further.


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:41:38 -0700
From: "Mike" <Mike at Bronosky.com>
Subject: RE busted wort chiller

I'll bit the wort chiller you are talking about repairing already has
lead-free solder holding it together. Have you noticed any off taste?


- ---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:19:11 -0400
From: "C Cameron" <colinlovesbeer at hotmail.com>
Subject: Starch haze?


All this talk about starch haze got me wondering - is this the same as 
protein or chill haze?  Or is it completely different?
I have a pale ale that was bottled about 4 months ago and stored at room 
temp (16-20C) and it gets a real haze when chilled, but so far no problems 
or infections. Now that it's getting warmer should I be concerned?  I better 
go drink it all, just in case!

Colin Cameron



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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:  A Couple of Questions

From: mailto:wctobler at sbcglobal.net

>- --Question 2-Can a HERMS be used,efficiently,for
>multiple step mashes by
>using the temp control on the heat ex-changer and
>recirculating constantly?

>This is a tougher question than the last.  If you are
>asking if you can
>control the temperature of the mash by controlling
>the temperature of the
>HLT only, I don't think it would work very good,
>though you could probably
>do it

Every system is different in some manner, and perhaps
that explains why I have had good results with doing
exactly that.

On my system, I can set the HLT temperature 10-15
degrees higher to step up the mash, and as I get close
to desired temp, I let the HLT temperature drop to
about 5 degrees higher than desired mash temp.

The most important thing to know, in my opinion is
that the temperature in the mash will be highest at
the top as the circulating liquor enters, and it will
not be seen on the thermometer near the bottom of the
mash tun for a while.

Here is where you must trust the system.  I know that
if the HLT is 10-15 degrees above desired mash temp,
that the mash is ramping up, and I just need to be
calm and trusting until the bottom of the mash temp
rises after a delay.  If I do not trust this and
continue to raise the HLT, then suddenly I can
overshoot the mash temp.

If I keep the HLT about 5 degrees F. above the desired
mash temp., I can circulate continuously and the
temperature stays on target in the mash. I use clear
tubing, and it is nice to watch as the mash liquor
turns from cloudy to nice bright and clear.  This
usually takes about 20 minutes to 30 minutes or so,
depending on the brew.  I do not bother with the
iodine test anymore.

Ron

=====
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:31:23 -0400
From: "Everett Arndt" <ecarndt at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: RE: busted wort chiller

The busted wort chiller can be silver brazed to fix the split. go to your
local weldshop and inquire how much for the repair. This technique is not
for people to perform for the first time.




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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: G C <gsd4lyf at yahoo.com>
Subject: Extremely high ABV 

I noticed Dogfish Head brewery produces a 23% ABV
stout and a soon-to-be-released 21% ABV IPA. What type
of yeast strains can survive such high alcohol levels,
and is there some special technique they use to
accomplish this? If anyone has tried the stout, what
did it taste like? 

http://www.dogfish.com/beer/index.cfm

Guy
Los Gatos, CA  



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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:48:46 -0500
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com>
Subject: RE Kegging Eqiupment

Nils wants to know about RCB Equipment company:

I bought a half dozen used/tested ball lock kegs from RCB about two years ago.  
The kegs were in really nice shape and the price was very reasonable.

Philip


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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:09:56 -0400
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk at hotmail.com>
Subject: Split wort chiller

A couple of thoughts:

1. If the crack is near one of the ends, I would cut the split section off 
and reposition the hose coupling. (I don't know if you have a solder-on 
fitting or hose with a clamp or some other type of attachment).

2. If cutting the split off would lose too much pipe, I would cut the split 
section out and replace with a repair coupling, which would require basic 
pipe soldering. If you've never tried it, copper pipe "sweating" is kind of 
fun, especially when it is not a house-critical application, i.e. your water 
supply piping. Since you are introducing a straight section to the curved 
pipe, you may have to bend the adjacent sections to regain the coil shape. 
Be careful; the pipe is soft and can crimp easily.

There are temporary patches available for fixing leaks, but I'm not sure I 
would trust them in a boiling wort situation.

Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia







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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:50:34 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Starch haze microbiology and biochemistry

I have had several replies, both private and on-Digest, to my question 
about starch haze, and I thank those who sent them.

The consensus seems to be that infection is risked when starch is present. 
My question becomes: Infecion by what? Some reponses seem to implicate 
bacteria. Depending on your definition, "bacteria" refers to any member of 
two domains of life (there are only three domains total). What 
species/subspecies/strain can infect starch-ladden beer? What enzymes do 
they possess that allow them to do so? What is the ecology of these agents? 
Do they produce carbon dioxide and therefore cause gushers directly? Or do 
they produce byproducts that other organisms (perhaps even the yeast) then 
ferment and produce the carbon dioxide in gushers. Why would these agents 
degrade starch and not the dextrins in the beer? Sources welcome.

"-S" implies Clostridia strains can be involved. I am unfamiliar with this 
taxa. The above questions apply here too.

Well, that's the microbiology. Here comes the biochemistry.

Since I am getting asking about minute details (pun intended), what 
compound or chemical family is involved in starch haze? Is the 'starch' 
referenced really polymers of glucose bonded by 1,4-alpha-glycoside bonds 
(the definition given for starch by McMurry in his book--Organic Chemistry) 
?
If so, does the haze-causing agent fall under amylose or amylopectin or 
both?
If not, is the haze-causing agent some other (i.e., non-starch) 
carbohydrate? What?

Thanks in advance.
Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA


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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:31:17 GMT
From: Wil at thebeermanstore.com
Subject: Two or three things

Picked up a nice 10 gallon ball lock keg from Duck Ditch brewing in
Goose Creek S.C. last Sat. evening and am having one hell of a time
cleaning it. Unfortunately someone put some kind of diffusing gizmo
(not a stone) on the gas dip tube that had steel parts. It rusted and
coated the inside with rust. I removed the gizmo and replace the gas
dip tube and have had poor success with removing the rust from the
bottom. It looks to me like the gizmo dripped to the bottom of the keg
for some time staining it. I can't reach the bottom with my fat arms
and my carboy brush just doesn't have the "umph" to scrub it off. Any
Ideas. I have used B-Brire, C-brite (yea yea,SS and C-brite not a good
idea) and "crud cutter"..The "crud cutter" has worked the best but the
stain is still there. There is all so a fine powder of rust on the
entire inside of the keg that only comes off with a cloth. Brushing
will not remove it and when its wet it gets harder to remove. The keg
is so nice on the out side I hate to not use it..and ideas? anyone
used CLR on a SS keg?

For GODS sake...let the sick taco thread die....Please. I'm trying to
have a beer!!!

Anyone have a good recipe for Rouges American Amber?
Wil Kolb
The Beer Man
Plaza at East Cooper
607 B Johnnie Dodds Blvd
Mt. Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084

www.thebeermanstore.com
Wil at thebeermanstore.com

God bless America!


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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:49:44 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Mash level controller

A friend of mine wants to control the level of his mash tun during sparging.
He is looking for some kind of level controller to control the liquid above
the grain bed during sparging.  He wasn't happy when I told him to go buy a
toilet boil water controller and use it.  I was just wondering if anybody
was doing this and if you are, I could use some details.  My friends
computer is off line for an unknown period of time, so he can't ask himself.
Thanks in advance!

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:12:41 -0400
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Protein haze, Starch Haze,

What is the difference in the appearance of  Starch Haze and Protein haze? 
Starch haze exists at room temp and protein haze shows up as chill haze?

Why would  excess starch matter. We have TG in the range of 1.006 to 1.030 
or better in some big beer.

Why does starch haze matter when a beer without it finishes with a TG of 
1.010? The 1.010 TG still has starch in it.

Why would an infection care if it was residual gravity from a standard brew 
session or one with unmalted wheat?

It looks to me like six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968






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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:33:01 -0400
From: huck7248 <huck7248 at optonline.net>
Subject: Brew Pubs in Yelm, WA

I'm traveling to Yelm, Wa on 5/1. I was wondering if anyone was willing
to recommend any good Brew Pubs in the area. Thanks in advance for your
help.

George Finn



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