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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re-post: Collected knowledge on strains in bottle-conditioned beer? (Tim Cook - Systems Engineer)
  Re: How popular is Cascade hops? ("Braam Greyling")
  cascade hops ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  RE: A generalized triangle test (Jonathan Royce)
  Base Extract (Hayes Antony)
  RE Cascade Hops ("Sven Pfitt")
  faux decoction (Alan Meeker)
  harsh beer (Marc Sedam)
  false bottom (David Passaretti)
  munich malt (Marc Sedam)
  Witches and chili beer (Jim Bermingham)
  Advice on Brewing Duval clone ("Lanthier, Chris")
  RE: Cascade hops (Brian Lundeen)
  Source for 1" Merchant Stainless Couplings (Robert S Wallace)
  RE: Kegs and Tools for Kegs ("Mike Sharp")
  Re: How popular is Cascade hops? ("Dave Larsen")
  Re: How popular is Cascade hops? (Mark Beck)
  Re: Cascade hops ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Raspberry Chocolate Stout - When to add the chocolate/cocoa/raspb (william.m.menzl)
  NOW ACCEPTING ENTRIES!  BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition ("Christopher Clair")
  Stout Tap Repair? (Ryan Neily)
  re: Cascade hops ("Rick Gordon")
  Cloudy Wort (David Humes)


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Date: 12 May 2003 15:47:59 +1000
From: Tim Cook - Systems Engineer <tim.cook at sun.com>
Subject: Re-post: Collected knowledge on strains in bottle-conditioned beer?

A while back, I posted the request below.

Well, unfortunately the response has been underwhelming.  Nobody likes
me :-(  I did get one response informing me that someone else had
collected this knowledge and published it.  A URL originating from
Sweden was provided, but it appears the page has sunk under surface of
the Internet.

So, if you have been shy and thinking there would be others more expert
who would inform me, not so!  Speak up now!  I really do want to know!

Regards,
Tim
Brewing in Melbourne (not the one in Florida), Victoria (not the one in
Canada)

On Tue, 2003-04-22 at 16:00, Tim Cook - Systems Engineer wrote:
> Having recently ventured into the world of liquid yeast & starters, a
> question pops into my head any time I see mention of harvesting the
> yeast from a well-known bottle-conditioned beer:
> 
> Does anyone know of an authoritative source on which bottle-conditioned
> commercial beers do not remove their primary strain when bottling?
> 
> I ask this question because I think I already know the answer - no one
> has collected this anywhere.
> 
> Well, if anyone wants to send me any such information, I volunteer to
> collect and publish it.  I think such a collection would need
> information along the lines of:
> 
>   Information		Example
>   ===========		=======
>   Name of beer 		Chimay Red (Rouge)
>   Packaging		12 oz (355 ml)
>   Where obtained	USA
>   When obtained		2003
>   Viability		Sediment from 1 x 330 ml in 1 litre starter - active in 7
> days
>   Confidence (that bottling strain is the primary strain)
> 			80 %
>   Confirmed by		Tasting of home-brewed Chimay Red clone
> 			OR letter from Chimay staff
> 			OR e-mail from Chimay staff
> 			OR discussion with Wyeast staff
> 			...
>   Reputed to also be	Wyeast 1214, White Labs WLP500
> 
> and the counter example:
> 
>   Name of beer 		Little Creatures Pale Ale
>   Packaging		330 ml
>   Where obtained	Australia
>   When obtained		2003
>   Viability		n/a
>   Confidence (that bottling strain is the primary strain)
> 			0 %
>   Confirmed by		Communication from brewery says it is different
> 			bottling strain





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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:26:45 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Re: How popular is Cascade hops?

Jeff and others,

Personally, the cascade hop is one of my favourites. I like 
especially the citrus flavours when doing a weizen, (not sure if it 
is in style though!)

In a pils it also gives a nice balance to the beer.

Rgds

Braam





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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 05:22:01 -0400
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: cascade hops

Jeff Renner writes

On the Oz Craftbrewing group, there is a discussion of the Australian
hop variety Pride of Ringwood, which is a distinctive part of the
profile of Australian mainstream lagers, and so, is generally
disliked by Aussie homebrewers, or craft brewers...
<snip>
One of the brewers suggested that their dislike of POR hops was
similar to Yanks' dislike of Cascade hops:
>It does seem that Ozzies have a Hatred for POR, as the Yanks have a hate
>for their Cascade Hop

Jeff continues
>I replied that I didn't think we particularly felt that way about
>Cascade, and I was told that this came from the Skotrat chat group
>(based here in the US).

and then asks how we feel about Cascades.

***

I think Cascade is extemely popular among craft brewers both professional
and amateur (?sic?)  You won't many brewpubs that don't use Cascade in one
form or another, especially if they brew a pale ale.  And Anchor Liberty Ale
and SNPA are hardly mainstream.

Do BudMillerCoors use Cascade? if they do, it is at such low levels that it
could be any hop in there (basically - I'm not trying to revive the
'bittering hops all taste the same' thread).

I don't think the purported Oz hatred for POR is anything analogous to the
relationship between American homebrewers & Cascade, at least among the
homebrewers I know.

Tom Karnowski
Knoxville TN




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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 03:57:21 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: A generalized triangle test

Frank Tutzauer wrote about a different method of triangle tests and said:
"One problem here is that as the number of test beers increases, the
test proportion grows small, and, as I mentioned before, the adequacy
of the z-approximation decreases.  A common rule of thumb is that the
z-test is appropriate if the product of N and the proportion is
greater than 5.  So for 8 beers, you'd need around 40 judges, which
you might not have."

I'm not sure if the rules of thumb have changed since I was tutoring
statistics 4 years ago, but the rule of thumb that I always taught (and
the one published in the 1993 edition of Watson, Billingsley, Croft and
Huntsberger) is that the continuous distribution can be used to approximate
a binomial if the variance is greater than 5. In that case, the correct
rule of thumb is if np(1-p) is greater than or equal to 5, or using 
Frank's nomenclature:

N(t)(1-t) >= 5

In this case, the number of judges required is not 40, but 46. 

Other than that slight detail, I think Frank's method is pretty clever. 
However (as he points out), it really trades number of required tastings
for required number of judges, which isn't always an easy thing to do. 

Happy brewing (and tasting),
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:49:58 +0200
From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za>
Subject: Base Extract

Our club was recently given some tins of base extract. Has anyone used this
stuff before?

It is produced by English Hop Products, and is apparently to be used
together hop extracts designed not to be light sensitive. The website gives
some guidance as to how to use the product, but I'd be interested to hear
from anyone who has actually done so. 

The website is http://www.hopunion.de/english4/proind_0.htm They suggest
adding 10g per hectolitre. Given that they sell this to the 15IBU club, I
guess that 20g may be more appropriate.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg


Confidentiality Warning
=======================
The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation
are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone
other than the addressee is strictly prohibited.



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:28:02 -0400
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE Cascade Hops

I don't think the BrewRats in genreal are down on Cascade hops. Several 
members seem to have disliking of all "C" hops, but overall I think it is 
just a thorn to poke people with. Kind of like 1056, Crystal, and Cascades 
hops...

My personal opinion varies depending on whether I have used them lately or 
not. I like some APA with Cascade, Centenial, ect..

I used to grow Cascade hops at my old house. I brewed many a batch with home 
grown cascades and enjoyed it till I hit the dreaded "Grapefruit Ale". I had 
three batches in a row that were Mouthpuckering Grapefruit flavored Ale. The 
effect will sour your taste for most C hops for a while...

I've only brewed one batch with cascades since then, and fortunatly it 
turned out quite nice. All home grown cascades. 2oz for boil, one for 
flavor, and one for aroma, 5 gallon batch.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:46:59 -0400
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: faux decoction

After reading many articles and HBD posts, I'm still not sure whether
decoction really adds anything significant to the finished beer. Given the
added time and effort involved in performing decoctions I'd like to see some
firm evidence that decoction is truly worth doing. Having said that however,
I have always included a "pseudo-decoction" in my Bav. wheat recipe. I've
kept this up because I used one the very first time I made this beer and
have been very pleased with the finished product, so have been loathe to
change anything. I suppose I should just bite the bullet one day and do
without the decoction and see if it makes any difference.

However, the type of decoction I do is so easy and hassle-free that there's
no real incentive for eliminating it. I've posted about this before, and am
curious to get some feedback. What I am doing is a Microwave-decoction. I
pull a large ceramic bowl full of mash and use my microwave to heat it
through the various temps required. This is very easy because I make use of
the microwave's temp probe which allows temp monitoring and holding for
specified time at a given temp. Apart from saving one from constantly
fretting over the heating steps it also avoids any potential scorching.

So, I'm curious as to what folks think of this procedure. Has anyone else
tried this??

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD





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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:15:33 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: harsh beer

One thing in Michael's post about 'harsh' aftertastes in his beer rang a 
bell with me...

"garden hose"

Michael, does the water to your softener run from the same pipes that 
feed your garden hose?  I ask because I moved into a new (to me) house 
last summer.  One of my first brews had that same nasty flavor (not 
spoiled, not sour, just "off" and kinda metallic) and I couldn't figure 
out what it was.  I was convinced that I'd just not been careful and it 
turned out to be one of the only batches I had to sewer...and it was 15 
gallons.

I serendipidously tasted some water out of the garden hose I used to 
fill my kettle just before my next brewing session.  The flavor was 
there!  I've used tap water from inside the house ever since and 
everything is fine.  Point being that there could be just be a little 
corrosion going on outside the house that effects the water sitting in 
the pipes.  After my brewing day is over, including using the garden 
hose water for chilling, the water tastes fine.  It's that first stuff 
out of the lines that's just nasty.

Thought this might help.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com>
Subject: false bottom

I have been using a BBMB 14 gallon kettle with false
bottom for years and decided to try it as a mash tun.
I use a HERMS system with a March pump.  During the
mash the false bottom bent from the negative pressure
of the pump and caused significant problems with the
grain clogging my pump and solenoid valves. Prior to
this I had used a Sanke keg with a ABS false bottom
for years without trouble.  The guys at BBMB told me
they had improved the false bottom since I bought
mine. The guage of metal was increased by one (from 22
to 20 I believe) and the legs were redsigned (round to
square).  Has anyone else had this problem?  Does
anyone know if the new screens will stand up to
pumping better?  I was thinking of buying a new pot
and false bottom for a mash tun but am not so sure
now. Any info would be appreicated.

Thanks
David Passaretti



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:25:37 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: munich malt

The color of a 100% (dark) munich malt beer is somewhere between red and 
brown.  it's a very rich color.  Unfortunately the last beer I brewed 
like this has not improved much in flavor since March.  It's drinkable, 
but not the bread crust flavor of the finest Munich dunkles I was 
shooting for...

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:57:02 -0700
From: Jim Bermingham <jbham6843 at netscape.net>
Subject: Witches and chili beer


I agree with -S on this one. Veggies have no place in beer.  I guess 
this comes as no surprise, I always agree with -S.  Well, not always, I 
used to not agree with -S at all, well, hardly ever.  In fact I used to 
have three theories on how to prove -S wrong.  Unfortunately none have 
ever worked.

My wife likes fruit flavored wheat beers.  I have to make her some 
peach, some raspberry and some blackberry wizen beer each year.  Can't 
stand the stuff myself. She even likes Lucky Larry's "Cerveza 
Chingaquedito con Chili".  That should tell everyone she could never be 
a judge of beer.  I couldn't stand the stuff.  After five, or was it six 
of  Larry's Chili beers I just didn't want any more.  Of course it could 
have been because he had four other beers on tap that I needed to try.

OK, on to the witches in Larry's beers.  I went on a witch hunt last 
October after I found out there was going to be an October Fiest at 
Lucky Larry's train station in Bellville, Tx.  Since it was close to 
Halloween, and I was looking for witches, I came in a Halloween costume. 
 I shaved the top of my head, put on a T-shirt with a beer slogan, a 
pair of shorts and sandals.  When I got to Larry's home I knocked on the 
door and when he answered I introduced myself as Jeff Renner, the 
godfather of CAP.  Let me tell all of you that may be looking for ideas 
on a costume for this coming Halloween, the "Jeff Renner special" can't 
be beat.  After about five minutes of Larry kissing my feet, I finally 
managed to get him to show me the beer.   There were five different 
beers on tap for the Fiest.  After trying them all I decided I didn't 
like any of them.  Then not wanting to rush to a judgment, I thought I 
should give them a second chance.  The second chance ran into a third 
and a fourth and before the evening was over I lost count on how many 
chances I gave his beers.  All  I can remember is I didn't like them, 
especially the chili beer.  I will have to admit that it did taste sort 
of ok with the tamales, and the other beer went well with all the 
different German sausages Larry served.  Heck his barley wine even went 
well with the cigars he furnished everyone.  Maybe there are witches in 
his beer, something made me drink those terrible things.  I guess I'll  
have to go witch hunting again this year and prove that the witches 
can't pull the wool over my eyes twice.  Lets see what would a -S 
costume look like....

Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:10:01 -0400
From: "Lanthier, Chris" <CLanthie at arqule.com>
Subject: Advice on Brewing Duval clone

Greetings,

I'd like to make an attempt at brewing up a clone batch of my new favorite
beer, Duval.  Any advice on clone recipes, particular fermentation processes
for golden Belgium ales, yeast, temperatures, conditioning, etc., would be
appreciated.

Chris Lanthier
Andover, MA



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:35:31 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Cascade hops

Jeff Renner writes:
> 
> One of the brewers suggested that their dislike of POR hops was 
> similar to Yanks' dislike of Cascade hops:
>
> I replied that I didn't think we particularly felt that way about 
> Cascade, and I was told that this came from the Skotrat chat group 
> (based here in the US).
> 
Hmm, another topic to bring out the dreaded OPINIONS!

I guess that means that there is no wrong answer, that we are free to
express ourselves in any manner that does not involve profanity or the use
of those pesky letters with dots and dashes over, under and around them. Not
that Pat is wrong for doing that. One only has to read the Sake Digest to
see what happens when there are just no rules.

So when I state that Cascade hops produce an effect only marginally better
than tossing Grandma's crusty socks into the boil kettle, it is after all,
just an OPINION. I would be rightly taken to task if I tried to present as
SCIENTIFIC FACT that the chemical composition of a Cascade-infused beer is
remarkably similar to the raw effluent of a third-world* chemicals factory.

*Note that this chemicals factory would most definitely NOT be in Malaysia
or Paraguay.

Now, in truth, Cascade hops are not inherently bad, people just do bad
things with them. Used with a subtle hand, they can add a pleasant character
to a beer. However, some homebrewers, not all homebrewers, but probably a
sizeable portion of homebrewers, have all the subtlety of the closing
choreography of Monty Python's fish-slapping dance when a bag of Cascade is
put in their hands. When more liquid is soaked up by the hops than the
grains in the mash tun, you gotta think that there's just a little bit of
excess going on there.

Of course, it is entirely possible that my OPINION on this matter can not
even be included in the final tally because I don't meet the residency
requirements  as stated above. Je suis Canadien, as we non-French speaking
anglos (in case I butchered that) like to proudly proclaim up here. Still,
having no National Hop of our own, we are free to join our kindred spirits
down under and next door in loathing BOTH Cascade and Pride of Ringwood. 

In my humble OPINION, of course.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:58:03 -0500
From: Robert S Wallace <rwallace at iastate.edu>
Subject: Source for 1" Merchant Stainless Couplings

Hello everyone:

         Several (many) weeks ago I posted to HBD that I had obtained a 1 
inch (1") stainless straight threaded coupling ("Merchant" threads) from my 
local plumbing supplier for use with hot water heater elements.  (I was 
building an electric HLT.)  Less than a week after my posting, my local 
plumbing guru Howard, went in for cardiac bypass surgery and was away from 
work recuperating for several weeks.  Fortunately, he did extremely well in 
his post-surgery recovery, and I spoke with him last week.

         This morning he phoned and provided me with the information below 
on where he obtained the straight threaded 1" coupling (full coupling) for 
my HLT.

          For sale at my local plumbing store (Litzel Lumber!) he got the 
coupling through "Plumb Supply" in Des Moines, Iowa (I'm at Iowa State 
University, in Ames), and it is most likely that *they* obtained this item 
from a regional specialty plumbing supplier, Anderson Metals, in Kansas 
City.  Telephone number for Anderson Metals is: 1-800-821-5672.  Howard was 
unsure if Anderson Metals would sell directly to the public (or even do any 
thing close to small volume mail order), but inquiries there might result 
in them telling you where your local distributor would be from where you 
could purchase the coupling (or other stainless fittings) 
directly.  [Please let me know privately (rwallace at iastate.edu) if you are 
successful in obtaining fittings from them or from other suppliers...]

         Another source for general stainless pipe fittings is from a 
Canadian supplier (Vancouver) who I met via eBay, that can be reached at: 
toolman156 at hotmail.com.  Let them know what you're looking for, and they 
can give a quote if they have the item(s) in stock - I'm not sure they can 
supply merchant couplings, but they have a lot of other elbows, nipples, 
ball valves, tees, and other 304/316 fittings.  Good prices and good 
service (no affiliation, satisfied customer, yada yada...).

         I hope this helps those in search of 1" merchant couplings to 
build  electric HLTs and boilers.

         Rob Wallace

BTW - I hope you're proud of me for not chiming-in on the off topic posts 
of creationism versus evolution, despite the fact that I've been teaching 
evolutionary biology here for well over a decade!  Many of these are 
unresolvable issues, often brought up by those unwilling to accept anything 
but faith based assumptions.  I'm glad the thread is dying.  Brew on !!


Robert S. Wallace, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Botany
Department of Botany - Iowa State University
Ames, Iowa 50011-1020  U.S.A.

Tel: +001-515-294-0367
FAX: +001-515-294-1337





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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:00:31 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kegs and Tools for Kegs

Bill asked about Commercial Kegs

"I understand Sanke kegs can be dangerous if not opened properly, and also
that there is a special tool for filling and cleaning them.  Anybody know
what the tool is, where to get it, how much it costs, etc?"

Any keg, including a corny, can be dangerous to disassemble if done
improperly.  The difference is that Sanke Hoff-Stevens and Golden Gate kegs
are a bit trickier to relieve the pressure.  I posted recently on how to
make a tool to remove the spear from a Sankey.  You can find the post in
archive 4217 at:

ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests/2003/4217.gz

I like Sankey best of all the keg styles, because they're easy to work with,
and the fittings are extremely common.  Though I've seen aluminum ones,
they're often stainless.

"From what I can determine, Hoff Stevens Kegs seem
ideal for hombrewing use.  It looks like all you
have to do is drill out the bung in the side, clean
and sanitize the keg, then fill it and put in a
new bung."

It's been quite a while since I used a Hoff-Stevens, but I sure don't
remember a wooden bung. It's possible, I guess.  Are you thinking about a
Golden Gate style??  They have bungs.  But if you drill out the bung, I
don't think you'll ever safely be able to use the keg at pressure.  You're
MUCH better off with a Sankey, and remove the spear to get access to the
inside of the keg.  Then if you buy the Kegman snap-ring kit, you can pretty
easily remove and re-seal the keg any time you want.

"So how does one force carbonate a Hoff Stevens?"

Just like any other keg.  Hook CO2 to the gas port of the tap, and
pressurize it.  If there is in fact a bung, and you've removed it,
then...don't know how you'll safely force carbonate.

"I am concerned that alot of the Hoff Stevens kegs seem
to be made of aluminum."

I'm not even going to comment on the aluminum pot thing (oops. I just did),
but I believe the H-S kegs are in fact aluminum.  I've never seen a
stainless one.  I don't see a problem with this, though, if they're used
strictly as fermenter/bright beer tanks.  IMO the aluminum is too thin to be
used as a kettle.  I'm thinking the keg is lined, but I've never opened one
up, so I don't know for sure.  I know that in the old days, when I was
drinking commercial beer, we would buy a keg of Henry Weinhards in a H-S
keg, and it would take months, sometimes, to use it all up.  Never noticed
any kind of flavor, other than the beer.

"Lastly, I've heard the Golden Gate kegs are supposedly
the best for homebrewing use, but are really hard to
come by, and that these are often also mistaken for
Hoff Stevens alot of the time."

I'm not sure how anyone could mistake any Hoff-Stevens keg I've ever seen
with a Golden Gate style. I think Golden Gate are popular because they're so
difficult to deal with that breweries don't want them anymore.  Ever since
the Big Breweries dumped them, the only time I see them are a few
brewpubs/micros that probably bought them for the sole reason that it's
cheap cooperage.  They're probably harder to come by, because no one has any
use for them, and they've all been scrapped out.  I don't think they've been
made in years.

Golden Gate are a PITA because the CO2/gas-in is in the head of the keg, but
the liquid out is in the side near the bottom.  They also have wooden bungs.
If you want to use them as a fermenter, or in place of a cask for real ale,
you've got a nice bung at the top BUT you don't have a convenient place to
draw the beer from.  The sides are rounded, and if you're using them on
their side, the low point is in the side, not the end.  The liquid out is in
the wrong place.  Just a PITA to use all around, IMHO.  They're really only
useable vertically, but with some mods, could be used on their side in a
cask configuration.  You'd probably have to either tip the keg toward the
liquid out end, or use a pickup hose, or just waste the beer that's trapped
in the side when the keg is horizontal.

The liquid out line is an L-shape though, so maybe you could insert it so
that it sticks down past the bottom of the keg:
     
        ______
       /      \
       |      |
       \______/
beer  __|
Out

The more I think about it, the more I think this is possible, because the
L-shaped liquid out was intented to point straight up the side (toward the
gas inlet end of the keg), but would probably go in straight down as well.
And having a low spot in the middle of the side, away from the liquid out
might give it the right amount of space for the yeast and finings to settle
out, without getting sucked into the liquid line.  So I changed my mind, the
Golden Gate are probably a good cask design, but I still think they're lousy
for pressurized beer.

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:47:45 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How popular is Cascade hops?

>In my early days of brewing, we never knew what kind of hops we were 
>getting - they were in one ounce lots in brown paper bags that were stapled 
>shut.  They were very stale!  Then around 1975 or so we got a brew shop at 
>a town 20 miles south of here that cared about quality. They decided to 
>sell only Cascade pellets, but we customers still didn't know what variety 
>they were unless we asked.  They were just hops.  When I discovered that 
>there were other varieties, I started asking for them, and in time we got 
>them.
>
>So I put to this group - what are our thoughts about Cascade hops?

I'll bite on this one.

In the early/mid 90s there was a microbrewery boom in Northern Arizona, 
where I was going to college.  We went from no microbreweries the three in 
just a matter of a couple years.  At first I loved it.  It was nice to have 
an alternative to all the crappy megaswill.  However, I soon came to loath 
it, because most of the microbrewed beers had eactly the same flavor 
(particularly the pale ales).  I would drink British, German, or Belgian 
beers and they were so different -- so good -- compared to the 
microbreweries' beer.

Soon thereafter, I started homebrewing and I realized the American 
microbrewery taste I came to dislike was all associated with cascade hops.  
I thought it is way overused.  The funny thing is that until your post, I 
thought I was the only person that felt that way.

Now that time has passed and I understand beer much better, I can appreciate 
it for being part of the American pale ale style.  I don't loath it like I 
once did.  But, given the choice, I still don't use cascade hops that often.

Dave
Tucson, AZ



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:19:38 -0700
From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu>
Subject: Re: How popular is Cascade hops?

Short answer: very.

I live about 70 miles from the Cascade Hop center of the universe, so I'm 
quite familiar with this variety.  My favorite beer style is a VERY hoppy 
Northwest pale ale, and in my opinion the best are invariably made with 
Cascade.

Mark Beck
Walla Walla, WA



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:57:30 -0500
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cascade hops


On 12 May 2003 at 0:12, Jeff Renner wrote:

> So I put to this group - what are our thoughts about Cascade hops?

I like 'em. (Though I might not like them as much if I didn't have 
other choices as well.) Of course, I also liked the POR hops I got a 
few years ago from Eastern Suburbs Brewmaker in Sydney on a trip to 
Oz.

Tidmarsh Major



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:21:47 -0400
From: william.m.menzl at dowcorning.com
Subject: Raspberry Chocolate Stout - When to add the chocolate/cocoa/raspb

While I was reading through my latest issue of Zymurgy (May/June 2003) I
came across Keith Bradley's "Lover's Stout"  It is an all grain recipe with
2-row, chocolate, crystal malts, flaked barley, dextrin malt, roast barley,
black patent malt, unsweetened bakers chocolate, Dutch cocoa, and a lot of
frozen raspberries (steep).

I am a little confused when/how to add the unsweetened bakers chocolate and
Dutch cocoa and the word "steep" after the raspberries has me in a pickle as
well.  The specifics do not talk about how to treat these things.

Anyone have any ideas for this?  Does the "steep" refer to addition once it
is in the secondary?

Thanks in advance!

William Menzl
Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:59:52 -0400
From: "Christopher Clair" <buzz at netreach.net>
Subject: NOW ACCEPTING ENTRIES!  BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition

Brewers Unlimited Zany Zymurgists (BUZZ) is proud to announce that the 2003
BUZZ Off home brew competition will be held on Saturday, June 7th at Iron
Hill Brewery & Restaurant in West Chester, PA.  For another year we will be
a qualifying event for the prestigious Masters Championship of Amateur
Brewing (MCAB) as well as the Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year.  All
BJCP recognized styles including meads and ciders are eligible for entry.
For complete details and forms, please visit the BUZZ web site at
http://hbd.org/buzz.

Entries will be accepted between May 12 and June 1.  For drop off and mail
in locations please refer to the BUZZ web site.  Please, do not send entries
to Iron Hill.

BJCP Judges and stewards will be needed. If you are interested please
contact me or another committee member (contact information can be found on
the web site). All judges must be BJCP certified.

Good luck and cheers!

Christopher Clair
buzz at netreach.net
http://hbd.org/buzz

"The mouth of a perfectly happy man is filled with beer."
 - Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, 2200 B.C.






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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 21:46:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ryan Neily <ryan at neily.net>
Subject: Stout Tap Repair?


Anyone know where I can get parts to replace the innerds of stout style
taps?  I have an Guinness tap, and it seems to leak when under pressure
from my home draft system.

I've taken it full apart and cleaned it, however it still seems to
"dribble" a little when in the closed position. Is there any maintence you
can do to these, or do they need to be lubricated somehow?

- -- 
Ryan Neily
ryan at neily.net

Random Quote:
"Horsepower sells cars, raw torque wins races...  - Carrol Shelby"


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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:23:20 -0400
From: "Rick Gordon" <regordon at bellsouth.net>
Subject: re: Cascade hops

I for one love the signature of Cascade hops. In the mid-eighties, soon
after I learned that "colder and cheaper" was not the same as "better" (a
tour in Bamberg with the US Army later), I was introduced to Sierra Nevada
on tap in Carmel, CA (OK, I understand they use Chinook, but bear with me).
I unwittingly became a hop-head and I began to search out and consume Fine
American Brews whenever I could. The Cascade "nose" I remember in many craft
brewed ales of the day began to mean "Ah! A decent beer!"

Back home in Georgia which was not known for the great craft beer selection
until the last few years (Go Terrapin!!), finding a decent pint was
something to be relished. I guess I get a little nostalgic for the old
Cascade lupo-therapy.

I get the same way about diesel fumes and burnt gunpowder, but thats a whole
other story....

Rick
[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian



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Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:58:39 -0400
From: David Humes <dhumes001 at comcast.net>
Subject: Cloudy Wort

Greetings,

I just brewed a Kolsch this weekend and my wort came out unusually cloudy.
I've made this beer several times with the same ingredients and have never
had this problem.  The grains are 90% Weissheimer Pils and 10% Weissheimer
Red Wheat malt.  I mashed at 145F, added a little calcium chloride to
control pH, and that's about it.  The mash pH was 5.66 (taken from sample
cooled to 20C), a little higher than ideal, but not high enough to cause any
real problems with the enzyme systems.  I believe the malt was fresh since I
just purchased a 25KG bag of the Pils malt.  I got some coagulation in the
boil (90 minutes), and it was looking better until I added some Irish moss
15 minutes before knockout, and then it started to get fairly cloudy again.
Lots of cold break went into the fermenters after CF chilling.

I also had some concerns about the mash converting.  The wort tested
negative for starch at 60 minutes, but I could see lots of gummy white
starch blobs in the mash that tested positive.  But then I hit my target
gravity on the nose.  I checked my malt mill (Schmidling's), which is
supposed to be set for .045" in the center.  It was just a little loose so I
tightened it up a little and I'll see what happens with the next batch.
I've made other beers recently with Pauls 2-row as the base malt and have
not had this problem, so I don't suspect the mill is the problem.

The Pils malt did not seem to be undermodified.  Typical protein analysis is
11.5%, but don't know about my bag.

Any ideas?

- --Dave




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