HOMEBREW Digest #4245 Wed 14 May 2003

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  Re: How popular is Cascade hops? (Phil Sides Jr)
  Re: Stout Tap Repair? (Phil Sides Jr)
  cascade hops ("greg man")
  re: Cascade hops (KCSTAR21)
  Re: How popular is Cascade hops? (Tim Cook - Systems Engineer)
  aeration of wort with an aquarium pump (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at AkzonobelCatalysts.com>
  POR vs Cascades ("-S")
  collected knowledge on strains.... (Michael Hartsock)
  Re: munich malt (Jeff Renner)
  1" fitting for heater element (hollen)
  Anchor Liberty Ale ("Thomas M \"Biz\" Bisard")
  fortifying beer and mead ("Mark Kellums")
  Re: Cascade Hops ("John O'Connell at Work")
  cocoa (Marc Sedam)
  Save Money - register today for NHC (Jeff Renner)
  Re:  Cascade Hops/Munich Malt (Gunnar Emilsson)
  Cascade and other hops (MOREY Dan)
  Re: How popular is Cascade hops? (David Edge)
  Re: Vegetables and Re: Chile Beer (David Edge)
  Re: Source for 1" Merchant Stainless Couplings (David Wilbur)
  Re: Cascade hops (Steven S)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:18:09 -0400 From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com> Subject: Re: How popular is Cascade hops? Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> asks: >So I put to this group - what are our thoughts about Cascade hops? I think the 'craft beer revolution' may not have occurred or at least it may not have been quite the same were it not for Cascade hops. You have to wonder how much SNPA had to do with all of this and well, you can see where I am going with that. I just think Cascade personifies Pacific Northwest hop variety flavor and aroma characteristics and it certainly is the most widely identified/recognized hop. Perhaps the Aussies are erroneously assuming (or misinformed) that our average megaswill is Cascade-laden. That said, I have personally experienced varying Cascade hop quality recently, particularly in the last three years. Consequently, I am not brewing with that variety nearly as much as I used to and have been enjoying experimenting with some of the 'newer' varieties. I still think Cascade is the classic though... Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD "Have You Entered The Lallemand Scholarship?? Go to http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further info!" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 00:53:40 -0400 From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com> Subject: Re: Stout Tap Repair? Ryan Neily <ryan at neily.net> asks: >Anyone know where I can get parts to replace the innerds of stout style >taps? I have an Guinness tap, and it seems to leak when under pressure >from my home draft system. I haven't had to make any repairs to mine yet, but I do have this URL bookmarked: http://kegman.net/faucetparts.htm I have never bought anything from Kegman but I know many out there in the collective have. Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD - --- "Have You Entered The Lallemand Scholarship?? Go to http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further info!" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:15:34 -0400 From: "greg man" <dropthebeer at hotmail.com> Subject: cascade hops NO sir I don't like them. Or rather I do not like the plant that has evolved over millions of years to become cascade hop. ;^ ] I used them one time in a steam beer did'nt like the result, in fact the only one major flaw that beer had was the hop chose. Now don't get me wrong I'll not turn my nose up at a big foot barley wine from sierra nevada. But............. Over all to me the taste an bitterness imparted by cascade seems one sided, not really mild, floral, or complex the way I like it. All I can taste is grapefruit tartness. Maybe this would be a good beer to drink for breakfast? Usually I use low acid varieties for my belgians, english, or german beers, and maybe that's why I don't care for it. Of course for a american pale you can through caution into the wind, but even then I'll mix it with another hop. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:35:52 -0400 From: KCSTAR21 at aol.com Subject: re: Cascade hops Rick Gordon wrote: "I was introduced to Sierra Nevada on tap in Carmel, CA (OK, I understand they use Chinook, but bear with me)." Actually, I believe SNPA uses Perle for bittering and Cascade for flavoring. Sven Pitt wrote: "I brewed many a batch with home grown cascades and enjoyed it till I hit the dreaded "Grapefruit Ale". I had three batches in a row that were Mouthpuckering Grapefruit flavored Ale. The effect will sour your t aste for most C hops for a while..." I brewed a SNPA clone a couple of weeks ago and had this same effect. Grapefruit tasting beer, YUCK! But, I let the beer condition in the keg for a few days and the next time I tried it, the Grapefruit taste was gone and a nice tasting brew with a great Cascade flavor remained. So, I agree Cascade are awesome when used correctly! Kevin Return to table of contents
Date: 13 May 2003 16:00:03 +1000 From: Tim Cook - Systems Engineer <tim.cook at sun.com> Subject: Re: How popular is Cascade hops? An interesting topic. I am an Aussie who has the following experience: - Years of being dulled by Australian megabeers, all hopped with POR - Fewer (recent) years of a couple of Aussie megabeers finished with Hersbrucker - Fewer years of Aussie microbrews with all sorts of hops, including Cascade, but not (to my knowledge) including POR - Occasional visits to the US North West, accompanied by samplings of many things non-mainstream, including SNPA (very nice on draught, where it is perhaps less bitter?) Even had a Double Bastard last visit. Interesting... - Brewed my own beer with Cascade The only thing I have not done is brewed my own beer with POR. Jeff has not mentioned that this discussion down under has included postulation that, because the Aussie megabeers use isomerised POR extract, and that they are pretty dull beers, we have perhaps not given POR the best chance. In any case, I think Cascade is much more interesting, but overall, VARIETY is the spice of life.. Tim, Brewing in Melbourne (not the one in Florida), Victoria (not the one in Canada) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:17:21 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at AkzonobelCatalysts.com> Subject: aeration of wort with an aquarium pump Hi, Steve ? (-S) asked some time ago about aeration of wort with an aquarium pump and stone. I found an interesting article (in Dutch). See: http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl/artikel/belucht.html Gretings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 06:14:54 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: POR vs Cascades Jeff R asks about .... >>It does seem that Ozzies have a Hatred for POR, as the Yanks have a hate >>for their Cascade Hop > So I put to this group - what are our thoughts about Cascade hops? Puzzling comment. Cascades has a terrific and unique aroma. The only problem w/ cascades is that it's aroma is so strong and unique that it doesn't belong in any of the traditional styles of beer, and must be reserved for the American ales which have adopted the citrusy tone as a characteristic part of their flavor. There are newer attractive American citrusy-type hops varieties - which might explain any market decline for Cascades - but it's not that Cascades isn't a great hops. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 06:18:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: collected knowledge on strains.... Tim, I have bad news for you. The only resource about this on the net can be found at the following link: http://www.nada.kth.se/~alun/Beer/Bottle-Yeasts/ However, the problem is, most breweries will not tell you whether it is the primary strain. Therefore, the best one could ever say about the beer is that it is "probably" the primary. However, I too am interested in harvesting yeast out of bottles. Keep me up to date. mike ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:33:26 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: munich malt Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> writes from Chapel Hill, NC >The color of a 100% (dark) munich malt beer is somewhere between red and >brown. it's a very rich color. Unfortunately the last beer I brewed >like this has not improved much in flavor since March. It's drinkable, >but not the bread crust flavor of the finest Munich dunkles I was >shooting for... Marc, we know from your posts on mash hopping that you have very soft water. Is that what you used to brew your Dunkle? As you no doubt know, you need a fair amount of alkalinity in your water for all that dark malt. Several of us AABG brewers use our untreated well water with good luck for Dunkles. George Fix told me he remembered fondly how good our local bottled spring water was for Dunkles (he was an assistant professor at the U of M, I think during the 70's). I have a craving for Dunkle every October when the leaves turn color and fly. There is something so autumnal about it. I love how it looks in a German stoneware 1/2 liter mug with that tan foam. I typically brew it with 100% dark Munich and am happy with it, but it could be richer. Does it have the bread crust flavor you describe? Don't know. Some of the other brewers us a bit of aromatic malt. That might help. For this fall's batch I think I am going to do some sort of decoction. The last two batches of CAP I brewed I did the cereal boil in a big pressure cooker. I think that would work for part of a Dunkle mash. I use a pot in the pressure cooker, so there would be no worry about scorching, and I could pull a fairly dry portion to save the enzymes in the liquid. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:50:25 -0400 (EDT) From: hollen at woodsprite.com Subject: 1" fitting for heater element It was discussed that one brewer found a "Marchant" fitting for his 1" staight threaded heater element. Finding a female straight threaded fitting is not necessary. A heater element has 1" 11tpi straight threads. A pipe fitting (like a hex reducing bushing which I use in my SS heater chamber) has 1" 11tpi tapered threads. The key to make them work together is to take your heater element with you when you select a tapered pipe fitting. Just make sure that when hand tightened, the rubber washer on the heater element begins to be crushed against the flat of the bushing before the straight threads bottom out in the tapered threads. 1/2 more turn with a wrench and you will have no leaks. I have been using several of these for the last 10 years on my RIMS system and never a leak. Also, no need to find special fittings. Another supplier for SS fittings is McMaster Carr. You may not be able to get a printed catalog (must purchase thousands of dollars of merchandise a year to get one) but they will happily sell you anything they carry and you can use a credit card. No need to be a business. And they are happy to help you find what you want over the phone. You can also browse the catalog over the web at htt:://www.mcmaster.com. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck Email: hollen at woodsprite.com Home Page: http://www.woodsprite.com Brewing Page: http://hbd.org/hollen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:55:30 -0400 From: "Thomas M \"Biz\" Bisard" <mrbiz at torchlake.com> Subject: Anchor Liberty Ale Hey Brew Crew... On 5/13/03 Tom Karnowski mentions Cascade hops in Anchor's Liberty Ale. I allus thot Liberty was a varietal using only Liberty hops. Any definitive answer will be appreciated. H'yar in da Nort' Woods of Michigan, Biz Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:39:24 -0500 From: "Mark Kellums" <infidel at springnet1.com> Subject: fortifying beer and mead Hello, I've got five gallons of orange blossom mead in which I'd like to boost the alcohol level. The original gravity was 1.160 and after several repitchings it is now crystal clear and has settled at 1.088, like it or not. What would the equation be for adjusting the alcohol level with either vodka or everclear. Thanks very much. Mark Kellums Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:03:04 -0400 From: "John O'Connell at Work" <oconn at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Cascade Hops Dearest Collective, In my readings of Oz Craftbrewing, the Aussies have a unique position with POR that we don't really have in the US with Cascade. POR is the default hop in their mega-swills, whereas the US m-swills don't actually use hops at all. (Okay, so that's an exaggeration, but I've seen the hop room at Budweiser in Cartersville and at Anchor in S.F. and they're about the same size rooms.) So, it's hard to imagine a single hop in the US that would scream "Budmilloors" the same way POR screams "FourexVBtooheys." Now, Cascade does tend to scream "microbrew" when I come across it, but there are few times that it really annoys me in a beer. I find that west coast brewers handle it better than east coast brewers, especially in the ABA and IPA styles. One thing about Cascade is it is a really robust-growing hop. Down here in Atlanta, I've got flowers starting already on my two second-year plants. I'm can't decide if that's a good thing or not, but I plan to wait out these flowers as long as possible, and then harvest gently to see if I get a second flowering more towards the normal September-ish picking time. As a last note, the big pest problem I have is not with mildew or aphids, but with Japanese Beetles. They love the leaves! John O'Connell Atlanta, GA. [590.7, 182.7] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:55:57 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: cocoa I always put the cocoa or bakers chocolate in the boil BEFORE adding hops. You can then skim the cocoa butter that raises to the surface of the wort until it's as gone as you're gonna get it. Then add hops and finish brewing as normal. My chocolate porters brewed this way not only never had a problem with head retention, they often kept a small bead of foam until the bottom of the glass. Cheers! Marc - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:57:03 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Save Money - register today for NHC Brewers Tuesday, May 14 is the deadline for early bird registration for the National Homebrewers Conference in Chicago, June 19-21. See http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/index.html for registration details. The price goes up Those Chicago brewers are trying to outdo the past hosting clubs' efforts in previous years and are cooking up a great conference starting with a pre-conference pub craw Wednesday, June 18. See http://www.chibeer.org/aha03/ for details about the conference. Hope to see you there! Jeff AHA Board of Advisors - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Gunnar Emilsson <cdmfed_emilsson at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Cascade Hops/Munich Malt As someone who has been growing Cascade hops in my backyard (yielding 1-2 pounds a year), I love 'em. However, it took me several years of brewing with Cascade before I brewed APAs that I really enjoy. My experience using homegrown Cascade is that they add a sweetness that I don't get with other hops. Based on my results, I have two recommendations: 1. Don't use them for bittering (although supposedly they are a general purpose hop). I like Northern Brewer for bittering in combination with multiple additions of Cascade for flavor/aroma/dry/hopback requirements. 2. Limit the amount of crystal used with them (say maximum 0.5 lbs. for a five gallon batch. Also, don't use more than 20% Munich with them. - ---------- Marc Sedam addressed the color of 100% dark munich beers. I have found that 100% light munich is a light tan to light orange color - lighter in color than say, a Vienna lager. Marc also notes disappointment with his 100% dark Munich dunkel. I share his disappointment. Mine has only attenuated 60% in three months of fermenting. I have pitched it twice on other lager yeast cakes, and have seen it drop only a point or two. Brewing a malty but not sweet dunkel seems to be one of the most difficult things to do, even when following all the advice that has been suggested in here over the uses (extended beta rests, massive slurry volumes, ample aeration, etc.) I'm going back to half-pils/half-Munich malt dunkels with carafa to get the color right. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:01:11 -0500 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: Cascade and other hops Brian Lundeen writes: Now, in truth, Cascade hops are not inherently bad, people just do bad things with them. Used with a subtle hand, they can add a pleasant character to a beer. However, some homebrewers, not all homebrewers, but probably a sizeable portion of homebrewers, have all the subtlety of the closing choreography of Monty Python's fish-slapping dance when a bag of Cascade is put in their hands. When more liquid is soaked up by the hops than the grains in the mash tun, you gotta think that there's just a little bit of excess going on there. I agree, not much worse than a fish slapper! Clearly, some homebrews that subscribe to "more is better" when it comes to hops. I admit that I prefer hoppy beers, but they need to be balance. Any hop become objectionable when over done IMO. A while back there was a dry hopped lager thread. Dave Miller recommended dry hopping in this book Continental Pilsner, however I find it objectionable for Pils and I find Saaz particularly nasty when use this way. I enjoy cascade and find them to work nicely for flavor and aroma in most American ale styles. For bittering hops I tend to stick with mid-alpha varieties. Cascade fits in this group, and I find that I can use it most styles. I have noticed if the IBU level is high, some citrus character can come through in the bittering addition so I avoid it in high IBU beers that should exhibit this character. One hop that I have found that I cannot stand is Fuggle. To me, it has a very course flavor and aroma. The flavor seems excessively grassy every time I try to use it. Strangely, I do not notice this objectionable character Willamette, a Fuggle hybrid. So when I want a change from Goldings (my favorite BTW), I tend to use Willamette. Here is a list of some of my favorite hops and there use. What are yours? General bittering purposes: N. Brewer, Cascade, and Perle. Style Hop Varieties Alt Perle, Tettnang, Hallertau, and Saaz APA Cascade, Goldings, and Perle Barley Wine Chinook, N. Brewer, Cascade, Goldings, and Willamette Bitter/Pale Ale Goldings, N. Brewer, Hallertau, and Willamette Bock Tettnang, Perle, Hallertau, and Spalt Brown/Mild Goldings and Willamette Cal Com N. Brewer and Cascade Dubbel Hallertau, Tettnang, Saaz, and Styrian Golding Kolsch Perle, Hallertau, Spalt, and Tettnang Pilsner Saaz, Hallertau, Tettnang, Perle, and Styrian Golding Porter Goldings, N. Brewer, Cascade, and Hallertau Stout Goldings, Perle, Cascade, and Willamette Tripel N. Brewer, Styrian Golding, Hallertau, and Saaz VOM Tettnang, Hallertau, Styrian Golding Weizen Perle, Hallertau, and Saaz Wit Golding and Saaz Dan Morey Club B.A.B.B.L.E. http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 23:53:33 +0100 From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: How popular is Cascade hops? Jeff Renner reports some Un-American activities: >One of the brewers suggested that their dislike of POR hops >was similar to Yanks' dislike of Cascade hops McCarthy must be turning in his grave. They probably brew red ale too. We like Cascade. It is a pleasant change from Goldings, Fuggles and Challenger. At the Burton Museum Octoberfest in 2001 (I think) there were two special beers brewed on the plant by cellarman Trev and his Missus, Al. Al's was pale malt and Cascade only and it wiped the floor with Trev's. But I don't think I'd like it to be my only hop, and I don't think you could have sustained sales of such a beer in the other centre of the brewing world. I don't know of anyone here who "dislikes" Goldings, but variety is no bad thing. Which brings me back to a quesion I asked a couple of years ago and got no response, so I think it is worth trying again. If you want to learn the craft of brewing and hop freshness matters, then it makes sense to brew with as few hops as possible. So, can anyone instruct a young brewer in which hops to try, in what order and what they're looking for, assuming an amber brew with hop character. I guess availability has a lot to do with it, but it is something I've never seen in print and think would be of inestimable value to craft brewers everywhere. David Edge (Who doesn't give out Rennerian co-ordinates for fear of being nuked, although not by Jeff) Signalbox Brewery Derby, UK Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 23:56:05 +0100 From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Vegetables and Re: Chile Beer <PgDn> if a degree of flippancy annoys you... -S opines (one fancies with his tongue in cheek, although one never knows, do one) >Putting chilis or jalpenos (sic) into beer is to me about as sensible as running a >grilled steak, a baked potato w/ sour cream and a glass of cabernet together >in a blender and calling it dinner. It's an offensively bad idea. Just choosing a combination of ingredients that sounds unappetising doesn't doom all attempts at creative cooking, brewing, wine or liqueur making. Do the same arguments apply to Martini, Benedictine, English country wines etc? Does it mean that Sarah Nowak's beer ice-cream is an offensively bad idea? Our use of Haban{inya}ero was inspired by records that it was a Victorian adulterant. Why, we wondered? Now Scott asks whether to First Wort Chili or to steep after fermentation. Here's what we did: We ran 10 litres (2 gal) of 1056 Oatmeal Stout wort wort out of the copper (kettle) at the end of the boil into a stockpot on the cooker (stove?) and boiled it for a further 15 minutes (1/4 hour) with a centimetre (1/2 inch) of de-seeded Habanero. That gave us a 1060 variant of our normal 1056 oatmeal stout. I think we achieved the warming effect that the Victorians were and Scott is after without it tasting like Lamb ROgan Josh. I'd use half the chili next time though. Also, if you were brewing a paler / less oaty / lighter coloured beer you'd want to throttle the chili back. The strength of spices is less consistent than hops - I'd recommend a method that allowed you to do some tests - maybe steeping in 1 gallon jars or several different simmers. If you FCH you risk losing the whole brew. In case you're wondering why Habanero, that's just what we grow in the greenhouse. If you want to convert Habanero to Jalapeno, look up "Scoville Units" on the Internet. I can't just now because I'm on the train to work. The use of vegetables in brewing and winemaking is also an example of historical necessity and it was dropped when it was realised that hops and malted barley were nicer, wasn't it. But blow me down, following that line of reasoning must mean that Porters, Brown Ales and Milds must taste really horrid while Anheuser Busch make wonderful beer judging by UK sales. So while North Americans go back and recreate Porters and Milds and some of us <sly dig on> have just a little more history to go back to. <sly dig off>. If I want to drink Pilsner or Oktoberfest I go to Plzen or Muenchen. Should I ever feel a desire to drink Coors or Miller, I'll come and join y'all in Oven Chips, Minnesota. But I can only travel back in time in a craft brewery. I think a degree of diversity in home brew practice, as in other aspects of human culture, is no bad thing. David Edge Signalbox Brewery Derby, UK Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:30:16 -0700 From: David Wilbur <dave at infolure.com> Subject: Re: Source for 1" Merchant Stainless Couplings Hello Everyone: First of all, I'm new here (and to newsgroups in general). So, Hello, I finally made it. I have been reading HBD digests for a while because they come up in Google during my searches for brewing info there (and they usually answer my questions to boot!). Second, I was one of the people bothering Rob Wallace about 1" Merchant Couplings. I tried everyplace in five states that I could find. No Luck. I called a friend of mine that has quite a bit of plumbing knowledge and asked him. He, of course, asked me what I was doing with it and after I told him he said something about application specific retailers and to try a brew store. Well, long story short, Beer Beer and More Beer (BBMB?) has quite a nice selection of stainless fittings, valves, etc. and they have a 1" NSPT (merchant/straight thread/water heater element compatible) half coupling in 304 stainless ($6.50). It was so easy that I have to admit that I felt like a real idiot not checking there first. Thank you anyway Rob. I appreciate you taking the time to track that down for us. <opinion> Third, Cascade hops. I, for one, like them since I am a fan of APAs. I am growing them (Chinooks, Mt. Hood, Nuggets, and Willamettes as well). However, they are not suitable for every beer style and I have had to share that opinion with some fellow brewers after tasting thinks like: Cascade stout, Cascade Pilsner, etc. American Hops in American dirt for American styles, European hops in European dirt for European styles. As far as Australian hops, I haven't found an Australian Beer I cared for enough to try and brew so I know little about their hops. No offense intended, I'm not partial to Belgian beers either, but that is more of a yeast thing. I would assume: Australian hops in Australian dirt for Australian beers. However, there are always exceptions to the rules.... </opinion> David Scottsdale, Arizona Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 23:35:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net> Subject: Re: Cascade hops I've been in love with the raw aroma of Cascade but unfortunatly it seems i've never been able to really capture its power. The pellets I get and dry hop end up with a very grassy flavor that doesnt seem to go away. The few packs of whole flowers I had were marginal, the aroma just wasnt quite there. Personally I'm thinking I like Fuggle and East Kent mixed in my Ales. The aroma is better and the quality lately has been good. Amen to Terrapin's Rye Ale! I still love Sweetwater 420 on tap (bottle just isnt the same). Dogwoods Octoberfest was quite nice too. > Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:23:20 -0400 > From: "Rick Gordon" <regordon at bellsouth.net> > Subject: re: Cascade hops > Back home in Georgia which was not known for the great craft beer > selection until the last few years (Go Terrapin!!), finding a decent > pint was something to be relished. I guess I get a little nostalgic for > the old Cascade lupo-therapy. Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net [580.2,181.4] Rennerian Return to table of contents
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