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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re:Rennerian coordinates, etc. ("Jerry Barkley")
  Raison D'Etre (darrell.leavitt)
  Quick dissconnects ("Karen White & David Meeker")
  Water and such ("A.J. deLange")
  Labware parts ("Doug A Moller")
  Re: BJCP Guidelines (NO Spam)
  The Long Term Future of Homebrewing ("Dan Listermann")
  Rebottling homebrew? ("Chuck Jonus")
  craft beer in Syracuse area ("chris lee")
  Re: Berliner weiss update, recipe, details (The brewer currently known as Michael)
  CAP #2 ("Dan Gross")
  Beer Heaven! ("Rob Moline")


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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 06:42:47 -0400
From: "Jerry Barkley" <gbarkley at charter.net>
Subject: Re:Rennerian coordinates, etc.

Travis Wrote:

In Steve Dale-Johnson's post he says:
"Brewing at (1918, 298) Miles Apparent Rennerian (I'm west of Jeff ...
shouldn't the degrees be negative???)
Vancouver, BC, Canada"
Well, it would be if these were Lat. Long. coordinates, but Rennerian
coordinates are polar (does the term vector ring a bell?).  This means a
distance and a direction from "The Center of the Homebrewing Universe".
And, of course the direction is just a number between 1 and 360.  Although
I suppose instead of 298 degrees, you could say -62 degrees.


Are Rennerian coordinates polar??  i don't think they should be, with such
an important task to acomplish using polar coordinates could mean a fateful
error. polar coordinates are a two dimensional system:distance and direction
from a pole on a plane. the homebrewing universe is certainly NOT two
dimensional, though some of my beer may be.

an email to Gary Nicholson should clear up that point, but in the mean time
onward:

If the current coordinates are polar, then we should consider changing to
spherical coordinates: distance, altitude and azimuth from the pole. the
origin of the system is the obvious location and the pole should  be normal
to the surface of the Earth; while this would complicate things for
non-Earth-bound homebrewers those of us fortunate enough the share the home
planet of homebrewing could have absolute confidence in his/her coordinates.

I personally have probably only evaded the effects of such a two dimensional
system due the fact that i live rather close to the origin, therefore the
systmatic error is small, what luck!!!

Cheers
Jerry Barkley
- --
http://webpages.charter.net/gbarkley/
- --
"It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!"
Mike Dixon
- --
Brewing in Southwest Michigan
[87.9, 249.7] Apparent Rennerian*

*Rennerian coordinates contained herein are calculated using Ed Williams'
Rennerian Coordinate Calculator the end user should assume all risk when
using said coordinates.


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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 06:35:51 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Raison D'Etre

Hey, any of you brewers ever make, or have an idea as to how one would 
make the Dogfish Head Raison D'Etre?  I have made a Raison Saison , using 
a heap of raisins, and it tasted, as I recall, much like this brew.

Any help would be appreciated,..esp as to yeast...

The bottle says "A dep mahogany ale brewed with belgian beer sugars, green 
raisins and a sense of purpose"...I have the sense of purpose, but need 
help with the yeast and the ingredients!

Happy Brews!

 ..Darrell




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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:24:38 -0400
From: "Karen White & David Meeker" <kd27 at westelcom.com>
Subject: Quick dissconnects



>>>>> I'm trying to find a good cheap source of some no-frills quick
disconnects for my home brewery.

Caryl,

  Check out U. S. Plastic. They are on the web. Decent prices and great
service.( No relationship.....)

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp

David Meeker




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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:39:15 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Water and such

A couple of notes for Patrick Hughes:

First on pH meter ATC. A pH meter electrode produces a voltage which is 
the product of a constant, the temperature and the pH. The function of 
ATC is to compensate for the temperature so that it would read the same 
pH at any temperature if dipped into a solution whose pH doesn't change 
with temperature (which would be an unusual solution but pH 7 buffer is 
pretty good in this regard). The other side of the coin is that (as the 
parenthetical above alludes) the actual pH of most solutions, including 
mashes, shift with temperature. In the case of mashes this shift amounts 
to 0.1 - 0.3 pH in going from mash temperature to room temperature with 
the actual value depending on the temperature change, the grain bill, 
the mash program and the chemistry of the water. Thus the fact that room 
and mash temperature readings were the same should be regarded with some 
suspicion rather than evidence that all is well. pH meters are funny 
things. They have led many a brewer (including this one) down the garden 
path. I've seen people post here that they would never rely on one of 
the damn things and while I strongly disagree with that point of view I 
will say that it takes some experience with them to know when they are 
behaving properly.

Now on to the sparge water pH shift. Many waters are super saturated 
with respect to carbon dioxide (and calcium carbonate as well) as they 
come out of the tap. Any water with alkalinity (and calcium hardness) of 
more than about 50 and pH less than 8.3 is supersaturated with respect 
to both and will try to drop calcium carbonate and expell carbon dioxide 
to get the system into equilibrium with the carbon dioxide in the 
atmosphere. Heating accelerates the loss of carbon dioxide and loss of 
carbon dioxide results in increased pH and that's probably what happened 
in this case. The fact that it happened with out boiling hints that the 
alkalinity of this water fairly low so that addition of acid is probably 
not required. You can try monitoring the pH and gravity of the runoff as 
you collect it. If the runoff pH stays below 6 up to the point where the 
gravity has dropped to 2 P or so you needen't acidify the sparge water. 
If this is not the case you can try adding a couple of tablespoons of 
dry malt extract to the sparge water to lower the pH. If the alkalinity 
of the water is indeed low, the pH will drop appreciably. As the water 
has been hot the alkalinity will probably be low because of 
precipitation of calcium carbonate. Is any precipitate visible in the 
bottom of the HLT?

A.J.



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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 07:46:29 -0500
From: "Doug A Moller" <damoller at intergate.com>
Subject: Labware parts



Hi,
I am looking for replacement parts for my 1 liter media bottles(Pyrex). I
need caps and pour rings, I know I have seen them on the net before but
cannot remember where I found them. I also need caps for my Pyrex screw cap
tube 25mm are hard to find.

Doug
Never enough BEER!



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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:12:32 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: BJCP Guidelines


The BJCP guidelines are simply that - guidelines - not strict
rules.  The idea of the guideline is not to "pigeonhole" a
style and say that all American Pale Ales, for example, must
be 1.056 OG, 55 IBU, and 12 SRM.  The guidelines are usually
based on and attempt to include and allow for the "norms" of
ommercial examples of the styles, which will naturally have
some degree of variance.  This is why there is a range.

When evaluating a beer, the keyword is always "balance".  In
your example, if you were to brew an American Pale Ale that
had the high end of the gravity range, 1.056, and the low end
of the IBU range, 20, this would likely be regarded by most
anybody who tried it as not representative of the style, and
as having lots of body, but not having enough hops "to balance".
The malt would be overwhelming, and this would not fit they
style.  Conversely, if you went to the low end of the gravity
range, 1.045, and the high end of the gravity range, 40 IBU,
then this would be thinnish beer with all hops and no supporting
malt.  While some judges might like this better than the previous
example, ;) it would still not be a good example of the style,
though it might fit into a different style.

Sometimes its a tough call as there are styles that "cross over"
into other styles.  The differences can be in the types of hops
for example, English vs American, or sometimes there are color
differences, etc. 

The keyword is "balance" and the idea is to determine whether
the beer fits into the designated style, mostly as defined by
commercial examples.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Bill



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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:21:58 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: The Long Term Future of Homebrewing

I am going on a brain picking expedition.  What will Homebrewing be like in
2025, 2050, 2100?

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35 
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:23:57 -0400
From: "Chuck Jonus" <watchguy at peoplepc.com>
Subject: Rebottling homebrew?

Hi,
I am new to home brewing and would like to rebottle some beer from one liter
bottles to 12 ounce. Is this possible to do without losing all the
carbonation or exposing the beer to something harmful?
Thanks
Chuck



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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "chris lee" <chris_lee at beer.com>
Subject: craft beer in Syracuse area

Thanks to everyone who sympathized with my beer dilemma in eastern
Kentucky.  Mike Bronosky invited me to his HomeBrew organization's party
last month, but due to a tornado in those counties that day i couldn't
make it.  Mike, i had made it all the way to Ashland when the toradoe came
through Greenup County.  Thanks for the offer to attend your
beer/appertizer pairing party.  maybe next time.
so, my company is sending me to Syracuse, NY for a couple months to help
in the relief of a bad winter storm that finally has been declared a
disaster zone by President Dubya and i wandered if anyone had any
suggestions as to where i could find good microbrewed beer and/or brewpubs
in that area.??  any leads would be appreciated!
thanks,

~~Chris


"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir' without adding, 'you're
making a scene.'"Homer J. Simpson


                                                             
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Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 17:15:47 -0500
From: The brewer currently known as Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Re: Berliner weiss update, recipe, details

Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> wrote:

Excellent post! I do have a question or two about the details:

[...]

> Brewing liquor--I used my very soft tap [40ppm] water as-is.
> The literature suggests that you boil WHOLE hops (at 1.3-1.5oz/5
> gallons of finished beer) in the mash water for an hour, then
> cool. Pellets are not an acceptable alternative and will only

I read this to say "boil the hops in the mash water prior to adding it
to the mash." Am I reading this correctly? (I don't have access to any
of your sources except Daniels, and I don't remember him discussing
that.)

[...]

> Boil--More appropriately, don't. If you plan to inoculate with
> lactobacilli, cool the wort down and pitch the culture when it
> hits 95F. Let cool naturally and sour over the next 24-48
> hours. When the desired sourness is reached (requires daily
> tastings...sorry), bring the wort to a boil for 10 minutes, or
> hold at 190F for an hour. Chill back to pitching temps and pitch
> a VERY healthy starter (cell counts akin to a lager).

Would it make sense to pasteurize the wort prior to cooling if you're
going to add lactobacilli? 

Would it also make sense to do this portion in your brew kettle, since
you will boil or pasteurize it at the end? Sanitation is probably less
of an issue for the kettle...

[...]

> Aging: Age for three weeks (or until the sourness is acceptable)
> in warm temps (60-75F), then store at 40-45F for extended
> periods.

[...]

How long does the beer typically keep? Its low gravity and low bitterness
work against it, but I suspect the acidity helps.

Anyway, if I have all my harshness problems worked out, I may give this
a try before too long. The last couple of summers have been pretty harsh
by Wisconsin standards...
- --Michael


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Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 19:25:49 -0400
From: "Dan Gross" <degross at starpower.net>
Subject: CAP #2

I am going to brew my second Classic American Pilsner next week. The first
one has a harsh bitterness which may be due to my water which probably has a
sulfate content in excess of 30 ppm.  I am going to try blending my water
with distilled water to lessen this effect.  I wonder if I should try a
50/50 mix of distilled water with my filtered tap water.  Will that be
sufficient to reduce the sulfate to a resonable level to brew a smoother
CAP?

Dan Gross
Olney, Md



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Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:33:20 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Beer Heaven!

Folks,
	You are invited to attend "Beer Heaven!"  The Siebel Institute!

	The Siebel Institute, the oldest and most revered brewing academy in the
U.S., is "Beer Heaven," especially for the winner of the Lallemand
Scholarship!
	The Scholarship sends one member of the American Homebrewer's Association
to Beer Heaven for a Concise Course, paying all fees, and adding a one
thousand dollar stipend for travel and accomodation to the benefit of the
winner. Even professional brewers have joined the AHA just to enter the
drawing! Talk about a prize!
	Home brewers can exponentially improve their skills, and professional
brewers can consolidate their expertise, but no matter the level of
competence one brings to this course....it all gets better after attending
the Siebel Institute!

	BUT, TIME IS RUNNING OUT.........

	Online entries will be accepted until June 6th....after that only attendees
 at  the NHC Chicago will have one final opportunity to enter the drawing.

	Bottom line, for a shot  at  the best brewing education one could
imagine..... at  no cost to you, now or ever...(except for your AHA/AOB
membership) send in your entries, or join the AHA to submit your entry into
the drawing!
	What's more, the winner will be announced on June 21st!  Within a month,
you could be planning to attend "Beer Heaven!"

Cheers!
Rob Moline
AHA/AOB
Lallemand

 "Have You Been To Beer Heaven??"
Go to http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further
info!"

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