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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  ukbrewing.com (jgordon)
  Re: Berliner weiss update, recipe, details (Marc Sedam)
  Re:Rennerian coordinates, etc.; Starch testing (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  Re: Craft Beer in Syracuse NY ("William Benz Jr")
  Rare Vos clone? ("Charles Brandt")
  Long Term Future of Homebrewing (Paul Mahoney)
  Coordinates ("A.J. deLange")
  best malt mill?? ("Hofmann, Chris")
  HBD post: syracuse beer (ensmingr)
  Re: Rebottling homebrew (rhostler)
  Quick Disconnects ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  RE: Future of homebrewing (Brian Lundeen)
  Good bars/pubs in Downers Grove (Chuck Doucette)
  Mash Temp Measurement ("Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D")
  The future ("john w")


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Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:11:50 -0700
From: jgordon at library.ucsb.edu
Subject: ukbrewing.com


Just wanted to endorse www.ukbrewing.com
I looked all over for a sparkler for my new
beer engine.  They sent it out in a week 
and they're located in the U.S.

They've got a lot of other cask-
conditioning supplies as well.  Nayyy.

Jeffrey Gordon
Santa Barbara, CA


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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 06:58:16 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Berliner weiss update, recipe, details

   Yes, you read that correctly.  Boil the hops in water for an hour, 
and use the boiling water as infusions.  My guess is that SOME 
bitterness is helpful or that the boil helps get some of the 
bacteriostatic properties of hops in the wort.  It's different, I'll 
grant you that.

I know some people do boil the wort and I'd propose that if you smell 
tons of DMS in the mash (esp. if doing a sour mash) then a quick 15-20 
minute boil to drive off DMS and sterilize wouldn't hurt.  Just a few 
more minutes in the process.  I don't know if boiling "makes sense" or 
not.  I've done it once each way and didn't notice much of a difference.

Warner says it will store well for >two years.  I had a little bit of 
mine last about six months and it took on some wonderful flavors and 
depth, particularly a nutty undertone (almonds?) that was delicious.  As 
usual, it was all gone by the time it reached this point.  That's why 
I'm making 15 gallons this time.

Ready to brew tonight!

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC 




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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:01:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu>
Subject: Re:Rennerian coordinates, etc.; Starch testing

In taking issue with my description of Rennerian coordinates as polar,
Jerry Barkley wrote:
> Are Rennerian coordinates polar??  i don't think they should be, with such
> an important task to acomplish using polar coordinates could mean a fateful
> error. polar coordinates are a two dimensional system:distance and direction
> from a pole on a plane. the homebrewing universe is certainly NOT two
> dimensional, though some of my beer may be.
>
> an email to Gary Nicholson should clear up that point, but in the mean time
> onward:
>
> If the current coordinates are polar, then we should consider changing to
> spherical coordinates: distance, altitude and azimuth from the pole. the
> origin of the system is the obvious location and the pole should  be normal
> to the surface of the Earth; while this would complicate things for
> non-Earth-bound homebrewers those of us fortunate enough the share the home
> planet of homebrewing could have absolute confidence in his/her coordinates.

Obviously I spoke to loosely for some of the more scientifically inclined
of our brethren.  Perhaps a better description of Rennerian coordinates
would be a distance along a great circle path and the bearing of that
great circle from "The Homebrew Center of the Universe (tm)".  This
definition has the advantage of conforming to the KISS principle.

On another, more pertinent, note:  What do people think of using the
iodine test for starch conversion?  (Drop a bit of iodine in a sample of
mash.  If it turns black, there's starch present.)  Now, I read in (The
Seven Barrel Brewery Handbook?) that it's a little more complicated than
that, but the test doesn't seem to work too well for me.  Thoughts?

 -Travis
[1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:37:29 -0400
From: "William Benz Jr" <wbenzjr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Craft Beer in Syracuse NY

Empire Brewing is a great Brewpub.  McGregors and the Blue Tusk are very
good bars with 60 to 70 beers each.  All have good food.  Clarks Ale House
has 22 beers and a great roastbeef sandwich.  Middle Ages Brewery is a good
place to visit with a nice shop and tasting room.

Cheers

Bill



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Date: Mon,  2 Jun 2003 08:52:22 -0400
From: "Charles Brandt" <chuckuiuc at illinoisalumni.org>
Subject: Rare Vos clone?

Any one have a recipe for Ommegang's Rare Vos that they'd be willing
to share?  I had my first bottle over the weekend, loved it, and'
would like to try and recreate it.  Going through the HBD archives,
it looks like this question has been asked periodically, but without
much answer, so I figured to try again.  Anybody got any hints or
guidance for yeast, spices, etc.?  Any help would be much 
appreciated.

Chuck Brandt

[193, 88] apparent Rennerian
Aka Pittsburgh
                 


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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:48:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at yahoo.com>
Subject: Long Term Future of Homebrewing

Dan asked:

I am going on a brain picking expedition.  What will 
Homebrewing be like in
2025, 2050, 2100?

   While some indicators forecast a growth trend, I am
pessimistic about the overall direction of
homebrewing.   First the positive: our local club has
almost doubled in size over the past 5 years; we have
had an influx of new, younger, enthusiastic members. 
Our club has increased its exposure in our community
by participating in a beer tasting at a local winery
and by taking over the beer portion of a micro-beer
festival (a local non-profit organization puts on a
beer festival to raise funds for the lcoal museum and
arts.  The organizational aspects are too complicated
to explain here: archaic alcohol laws in Virginia).
   Next the negative: the lcoal homebrew supply shop
closed several years ago; now you have to drive
45min.-hour to get decent supplies, or purchase on the
internet.  Over the past 5 years the quality and
choice of good microbrews in the local grocery chain
(Kroger) has expanded, so that now you can buy some
excellent beers.  That makes it more difficult to
devote a day to brewing (laziness) when you can buy a
6 pack of Rogue or other fine choices. The
overwhelming majority of our club membership is male,
and many of us are older (hopefully wiser).
   I fear that our younger members will abandon
brewing once career, children and other pursuits
become more demanding or appealing.
   I believe that we as homebrewers may have peaked. 
It is a small, dedicated fraternity of people, but it
is not easy to expand the base membership.   People
brew, but quickly lose interest, once results are not
as expected, and the time commitments become
overwhelming. 
   This hobby is expensive and demanding.  The rewards
are great, but often inconsistent  (I still make a
batch that is not very good).  It is much easier to
buy a decent microbrew from the local grocery chain.
   So by 2025 we will resemble the VFW, but technology
will allow us to acquire excellent beer from
FedExUPSMocroSoft internet (merger approved despite
antitrust concerns).  In 2050 Pres. Chelsea Clinton's
administration bans beer due to its adverse health
effects, and by 2100 we will have beer tablets: just
drop in water and it will any make style you want. 

Paul Mahoney
Star City Homebrewers Guild
Roanoke, Va.


=====
'Caesar, [...]  fearing the fickle disposition of the Gauls,
who are easily prompted to take up resolutions,
and much addicted to change, considered
that nothing was to be entrusted to them;'

 -  De bello gallico, book 4 script 5,  Julius Caesar, 55 BC



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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:06:23 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Coordinates

I have always assumed that Rennerian coordinates were defined in terms 
of the great circle distance and true azimuth (defined with respect to 
the NCP as  per WGS 84) from the origin, Chez Jeff. So they really 
aren't  two dimensional at all. They are spherical. The system does not 
consider differences between the geoid and ellipsoid. In fact no 
consideration at all is given to how high you may be. Interesting.

A.J.



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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:41:44 -0500 
From: "Hofmann, Chris" <Chris.Hofmann at camtronics.com>
Subject: best malt mill??

Fellow brewers,


Birthday is coming up and the wife has asked me what I want.


"Need a malt mill", I answered.

"Which one?" she asked

I puzzled for a moment then said, "Let me consult with the experts. I'll
tell ya this week."

And so,

What are your recommendations and why?  

I do 20 gallon batches. For years my supplier has been milling for me.  He's
gone now and I need to fill the gap.

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Chris Hofmann
Mukwonago, Wisconsin




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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:57:27 -0400
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: HBD post: syracuse beer

Hi Chris,

Yes, there is good beer in Syracuse. Some suggestions:
1) Empire Brewing Company, a brewpub:
<http://www.empirebrewco.com/>
2) Middle Ages Brewing, a microbrewery:
<http://www.middleagesbrewery.com/brewery.html>
3) Blue Tusk, a pub with a huge selection of drafts and bottles:
<http://www.bluetusk.com/tusk1.htm>
4) Party Source, a great source of bottled beer for takeout.
<2646 Erie Blvd East>
5) Clarks Ale house, a pub with an impressive collection of drafts:
<122 West Jefferson St>
6) Syracuse Suds Factory, a brewpub:
<http://www.sudsfactory.com/>

Personally, I like Clarks, Empire, Blue Tusk, and Party Source. 
BTW, the Empire, Blue Tusk, Clarks, and Suds Factory are all 
within easy walking distance in the 'Armory Square' region of 
downtown Syracuse. Middle Ages is about 2 miles away and Party 
Source is about 5 miles away.

You also might want to look at my (somewhat dated) article on the 
history of brewing in Syracuse, "Brewing in Syracuse, from the 
1800's to the Middle Ages": 
<http://home.twcny.rr.com/geomanagement/ensmingr/beer/syracuse.html>

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
http://hbd.org/ensmingr



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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:36:44 -0400 
From: rhostler at pcconnection.com
Subject: Re: Rebottling homebrew

> Chuck,
> I recently rebottled a few of my 12-ouncers to clean 12-ouncers so that
> the guys on my softball team could drink my beer from bottles. I chilled
> the beer in the freezer to get it extra cold (more gas-holding power).
> Then gently decanted via a specially-designed (molded aluminum foil)
> funnel. As soon as the foam reached the top of the new bottle, I capped
> it. I did this about 2.5 hours before the beers were consumed. The foam
> mostly disappeared and the beers held a good amount of carbonation. I had
> no complaints from the drinkers.
> 
> I would be afraid to do this for anything other than immediate (~24 hours)
> consumption. The transfer equipment was not sanitized (just washed), so
> I'm sure I introduced some undesirable beasties. One other downside is you
> lose about an ounce of beer per transfer. 
> 
> -Hi,
> -I am new to home brewing and would like to rebottle some beer from one
> liter
> -bottles to 12 ounce. Is this possible to do without losing all the
> -carbonation or exposing the beer to something harmful?
> -Thanks
> -Chuck
> 
> 	Richard Hostler
> 	Copywriter
> 	PC Connection
> 	IT Solutions for Business
> 	rhostler at pcconnection.com 
> 	Phone: 603-423-2234 Fax: 603-423-5784
> 	www.pcconnection.com
> 


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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:38:33 -0700
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Quick Disconnects

Hi,
  I did some checking into this a few months ago.  Check the following
website: http://plastics.newageindustries.com/snpflxmn.asp.  The 
general consensus was that you need the Polysulfone since it's food 
grade & can handle the heat.

Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA
[1978.7, 275.3] Apparent Rennerian
In Heaven there is no beer, that's why we drink it here,
And when we're gone from here, our friends will be drinking all the
beer.


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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:43:08 -0500 
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Future of homebrewing

> Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:21:58 -0400
> From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
> Subject: The Long Term Future of Homebrewing
> 
> I am going on a brain picking expedition.  What will 
> Homebrewing be like in 2025, 2050, 2100?
> 

2025: Beer machines employing the latest in artificial intelligence will
revolutionize brewing on all fronts. Ingredients will simply be loaded into
appropriate hoppers and the machine will do the rest. Commercial units will
appear first, but smaller homebrew scale units will follow soon after. High
to their superior intelligence, the machines will solve once and for all the
problem of hot side aeration. Consumers will start complaining that their
beers just don't taste right. It is the start of the end for the machines...

2050: The Beer Pill is the final death blow to brewing of any sort. This
pill will provide the flavour, aroma, bitterness, etc for every beer style
imaginable (with the exception of American Pale Ales, since the Cascade hop
will be banned from being grown in 2037 by a truly forward thinking
government). Vendors will sell bottles of carbonated alcohol-water solutions
to which you will simply add the style pill of your choosing. 

2100: Giddy with the freedom the Pill provides, the world forgets all about
the beer machines, which they assume are just sitting rusting away in
junkyards. However, at the Great American Pill Festival of 2100, the
machines reappear with a vengeance. Festival goers are ripped asunder by
killing high-pressure streams of mega lager. Soon, whole cities and
countries fall to the machines. But led my a nameless man, the humans fight
back using inexpensive but mostly functional weapons made of plastic. The
machines begin to lose their grip on power. The machines know there is only
one way they can prevent their ultimate demise. They must go back in time
and destroy the rebel leader before he is born. Unfortunately, most records
are destroyed in the early years of the onslaught. The machines have only a
largely burnt up birth record from Cincinnati, with a few readable letters
from the leader's name: LISTE...NN. 

It is only a matter of time before they find their enemy.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg
 


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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chuck Doucette <cdoucette61 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Good bars/pubs in Downers Grove

Does anyone know of a good brewpub or bar in the
Downers Grove/Woodridge, IL area? Preferably one that
serves food. Things have changed in the 2-1/2 years
since moved away and I need a place to meet some
friends for a good beer and some food.

TIA
Chuck Doucette
O'Fallon, IL



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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:51:38 -0400
From: "Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D" <lupolds at jhmi.edu>
Subject: Mash Temp Measurement


How does everyone go about measuring their mash temps?  I use the
standard glass thermometer and my measurements vary significantly
depending on the depth the thermometer is placed into the mash or if it
is left in the mash bucket with the lid on.  I understand that these
thermometers have a specific depth for measuring liquids and that
exposing more surface area may give you a false reading, but being the
worrier that I am, I'm not confident that my mash temp is what I think
it is.  

What got me thinking about this is the fact that most books recommend
using strike water temperatures of 10-16 degrees F above target mash
temp, but I've found that I need to go 20 degrees F over to hit my temp.
If I read the temp (using the indicator line) right after stirring in
the grains, the temp is correct, but reading at a lower depth or if the
thermometer is left in the mash with the lid on, I'm up to 10 degrees
over target! Do the electronic thermometers get around this problem?

Actually, I think it would be helpful if we have a few people discuss
their methods for hitting their target temp and how and when they
measure their mash temp?  

Thanks in advance!

Shawn Lupold
Alexandria, VA
 




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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:46:26 -0500
From: "john w" <j2saret at hotpop.com>
Subject: The future

"I  am going on a brain picking expedition.  What will Homebrewing be like
in
2025, 2050, 2100?"

2025--- cheap microprocessor controled temperatures for mashing, sparging
and  fermenting.
2050--- clones of  the best ingredients, no year to year variation.
2100---nanotech, assemble your brews atom by atom.

John
545.3, 308.5
(from the land of sky blue waters.)

Dan Listermann




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