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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  mailing beer (ensmingr)
  Re: Schmitz process ("Timo Jukka")
  grain mills (Alan McKay)
  Re: Mailing Beer ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Splenda / Silicone ("Joel Trojnar")
  homebrew demography 2 ("Joseph Gerteis")
  homebrew demography 1 ("Joseph Gerteis")
  Re: Schmitz Process (John Landreman)
  Light Beers ("Chip Stewart")
  All Hail and Farewell to the Beer Man (Jennifer/Nathan Hall)
  St. Pat's Gambrinus Yeast ("The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty")
  Re: Atkins/Splenda ("Steve Alexander")
  RE: splenda fermentation (Warren Place)
  Mills ("dan moore")
  RE: Crosshair Removal in Food Grade Quick Disconnects (Warren Place)
  no beer at all (Jeff & Ellen)
  Brass fittings in mash-tun/kettle ("Parker Dutro")


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Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:42:58 -0400
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: mailing beer

My suggestion to homebrewers: ignore the shipping laws, whatever
they are. If someone at USPS/UPS/FedEX/etc. asks the contents of
a package, just lie. Nobody will break down your door for illegal
shipment of a few bottles of homebrew.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
http://hbd.org/ensmingr





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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:43:21 +0300
From: "Timo Jukka" <timo.jukka at helsinki.fi>
Subject: Re: Schmitz process

David Sweeney asked about the Schmitz process:

> However, I can find no references to it or hits in the HBD archives.
> Does anyone have any details on this "new" decoction technique?

Some details and discussion can be found in the archives. This process
was discussed in the HBD in April 1997 - six years ago. I brought it
up in a decoction thread, but at that time I didn't know it was called
the Schmitz process. So you won't find it with the word "Schmitz". I
tried to find search terms for the whole thread but couldn't. Search
the 1997 archive for my name or "pseudo-decoction" for a start.

Timo Jukka in Helsinki, Finland.



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Date: Mon,  9 Jun 2003 07:03:56 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: grain mills

Thank goodness this forum is moderated ;-)

I started out with the Valley Mill, which is a great product.  But
then I got a BarleyCrusher and had two mills for several years.
Finally about 4 or 5 months ago I sold my Valley Mill to a guy in
our club since I just wasn't using it anymore.  As already mentioned,
the BarleyCrusher is all metal construction (mmmmm, shiny metal ;-))
and very sturdy.  And of course a lifetime warranty.

I also recently picked up a 4" mill from morebeer.com, but have not
used it yet.  Looks like a great mill, though.

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site


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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 07:02:40 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mailing Beer

Concerning Chad's post about the problems with mailing beer, and his interest
in working on changing the US postal laws, Dave writes:
> I think this is a great project for the AHA. I have discussed this with
> my own personal AHA Rep Mark Tumarkin but I don't believe they have
> taken up the mantle. Maybe if Mark can take some time away from his very
> busy brew schedule ;^}, he can raise this issue at the AHA Conference.
> What say ye, Mark?
>
> Dave Perez
> Hogtown Brewers

Notice that Dave couldn't resist a jab at me for my recent lack of brewing
(been way busy restoring an old house). Dave's been on a brewing kick recently
in order to stock his new freezer converted with a tap tower - so I'll just go
suck down his brews for now.

Anyhow, I had emailed Chad off-line earlier but I'll respond here as well. As
Dave mentions, I'm on the AHA Board of Advisors. We'd discussed something
similar a while back - actually in regard to the commercial carriers like UPS
or FedEx (after this issue was raised by some of the Brew Rats at the AHA
Member Meeting at the LA NHC a few years ago). According to their current
policies, none of the carriers will knowingly take alcohol for shipment across
state lines. I'd thought that it might be worthwhile to approach one of the
carrier companies at a high level and try to get them to change this
situation. In discussing this with the BOA, the prevailing feeling was that we
should leave well enough alone.

Although people have occasional problems with shipping, it's generally not a
problem to ship beer to a competition - as long as you don't tell them it's
beer. If asked, many people just say it's yeast samples for evaluation. Given
the prevailing anti-alcohol sentiments, it's unlikely that we'd be successful.
Right now we're sneaking in under the radar screen. If we try unsuccessfully
to change regulations, we may direct unwanted attention to the situation &
make things worse. It was thought best to leave sleeping dogs lie in this
matter.

I understand that Chad's professional situation & his not wanting to perjure
himself on background checks every five years makes his view different. Though
I still think it best to leave this issue alone, I will bring it up in Chicago
at the AHA NHC at the Board Meeting. If any of you has other issues you'd like
raised, please let me know (soon, the NHC is just over a week away). The
current thread about the Future of Homebrewing ties in with some of the things
we've been discussing recently as well. Hope to see some of you in Chicago,
and do let me know if you've got any suggestions you'd like to forward to the
AHA Board of Advisors.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL

Oh, in his closing sig, Dave mentions our upcoming competition, the Hogtown
Brew-Off so I might as well put in a plug for it too. Our club hosted the AHA
Club-only Comp for Fruit & Veggie beers last Dec. We were able to leverage
this experience into support for a full on comp. for this coming Oct. 11th.
We'll be getting it posted soon on the BJCP & AHA websites, etc. and we plan
on making it a great new comp. We've got support from the best judges in the
other FL clubs to supplement our Hogtown judges so you should be able to get
some good evaluations on your entries. We plan on making it a great party too
for the attending judges & stewards (including a Hogtown pig-roast for the
awards dinner) so mark it on your calendars to enter & come on down to help
judge if you can.









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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:10:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joel Trojnar" <joel at trojnar.com>
Subject: Splenda / Silicone

Mark Kellums writes:

Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:56:44 -0500
From: "Mark Kellums" <infidel at springnet1.com>
Subject: Atkins/Splenda

Me:
I've also been following the Atkins diet also since about
May 1st this
year.
As of today I've lost 15 lbs. I'm not following it
religiously, I'm
still
having my daily intake of coffee and diet sodas. I haven't
reduced the
volume of beer I drink on a nightly basis either, but I
have reduced
the
amount of my homebrew consumption and replaced that with
one of the low
carb
brews. Namely Miller Lite. I prefer the Miller Lite over
the Michelob
Ultra.
It's amazing how good a bottle of Miller Lite taste when
faced with the
choice of no beer at all.

 I've also been using a lot more Splenda lately and I'm
naturally
curious as
to whether or not it is fermentable??

Mark Kellums
Decatur Il.


Mark,

Splenda is a chlorinated version of sugar which basically
provides stearic hinderance to the enzymes that break it
down to produce energy, so it is doubtful that yeast will
be able to handle it as well.

On another topic of silicone sealant.  The best ones are
made by GE, IMHO.  As far as "food" grade goes, I bet you
these companies do not make special batches of food grade
product.  They are most likely just tested and verified to
be within certain limitations.  The best ones (highest
heat resistance) react with oxygen and produce acetic acid
during the polymerization.  I would recommend before use
with any silicone, you give it the old boiling water test
to see if you are leak free, plus it will extract out any
volitales, making it safe to use.






Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joseph Gerteis" <joseph540 at elvis.com>
Subject: homebrew demography 2

 ... On a related note, there has been some discussion
of whether homebrewing is too much of an all-male
domain.  In advance of father's day, I thought that I
would post a message that I originally put on the
northernbrewer.com forum in response to a question
about a Freudian analysis of "fermenter envy":

 "Well, I'm no Freudian, but I can do a pretty good
structuralist analysis. It won't be pretty to those who
consider brewing a hyper-male enterprise.

1. Consider: your beer is a result of the mating of two
sorts of entities: the wort and the yeast.

2. The yeast is incubated in a starter flask before it
is lustily injected into the fresh, un-adulterated wort.

3. Being that you have a 2000 ml stater flask, and I
have only a 1000 ml flask, I think the term is not
fermenter-envy but flask-envy. I guess I must be a
premature pitcher.

4. We create the wort, but we usually buy the yeast,
only incubating it some. Perhaps we should call Wyeast
and the like "Yeast donor facilities."

4. The vessel that holds the fresh wort, accepts the
injected yeast, and carries the developing beer to term
is the fermenter. The fermenter is thus the womb for
our beer. We brewers who obsess over our fermentors,
keeping them warm and carefully nurtured, are the
mothers, not the fathers of our beer.

5. Never again take flak for brewing as a "guy thing."
Although as of now, homebrewing is (regretably) a
mostly male phenomenon, we are getting in touch with
our feminine sides while brewing. We should call our
homebrew clubs "consciousness raising groups" to make
this point.

6. Happy brewing, Mom!"

Best wishes,
Joe Gerteis

- -------------------------------------------------
Get your free  at Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com!
http://www.elvis.com



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Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joseph Gerteis" <joseph540 at elvis.com>
Subject: homebrew demography 1

Hi,

A few comments on the thread about the future of
homebrew.  There has been some hand-wringing over how
many people may or may not be leaving the hobby, when,
and why.

On the why, kids are a big one.  But it's not just that
- -- for most people it is the combination of kids and
job.  Kids take a lot of time, but I don't think that
it really takes more time now to raise kids than it did
20 yrs ago or so.  The job does though!  Americans are
working longer hours than ever.  All of the fast
food/prepared food stuff isn't just a result of
devolving taste, it's also a matter of convenience. 
Now that most households have two full-time workers and
those workers are doing longer hours, something has to
give.

The bright side is that most of our discussion has
missed the distinction between "generation effects" and
"age effects".  The generation argument is that people
are less and less likely to start homebrewing and/or
stick with it.  I think the age effect is more likely
- -- people pick it up prior to having kids or a
full-time job, many transition out as they get these
things, and then some transition back in when the kids
grow up and they can dictate their own hours more.

This also brings up a distinction between "short-term"
and "long-term" brewers.  We should not worry too much
if most people who try out brewing don't remain active
brewers.  In any hobby or sport (or social movement),
the vast majority of new recruits are short-termers. 
They try it for a while and transition out quickly. 
The thing we should be thinking about is how well we do
at maintaining that (maybe small) percentage of people
who want to stay.

Best wishes,

Joe Gerteis

- -------------------------------------------------
Get your free  at Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com!
http://www.elvis.com



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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:21:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Landreman <jlandrem at cso.atmel.com>
Subject: Re: Schmitz Process


In HBD # 4265, Wm. Shawn Scott said. 

"The only reference to the Schmitz process that I have ever encountered comes
straight out of Vol. I of DeClerck's  "A Textbook of Brewing" (p.274 of the
1994 reprint).  It reads:

 'In the Schmitz process, a portion of diastatic extract is withdrawn at the
start of mashing, while the remainder of the mash is allowed to saccharify by
simple infusion and the whole then boiled.  The starch from the more vitreous
parts of the malt is thus dissolved and the temperature is then reduced to 70C
in the tun by returning the unboiled portion of the diastatic extract which
saccharifies the unconverted starch.' "



There is also a reference in "Malting and Brewing Science", D.E. Briggs, et al.
(Vol. 1, p. 266)

"In the Schmitz process, the initial mash temperature is 50'C (122'F) and the
 whole mash is heated to 65'C (150'F), while being stirred. The mash is allowed
 to settle, then the upper layers containing dissolved sugars and enzymes are
 pumped off. The thick mash remaining is boiled to gelatinize any residual
 starch and break up intact grist particles, and then is cooled. The thin mash
 is returned and mixed with the thick mash for a saccharification rest. Finally,
 the temperature is raised to 77'C (170'F)."

Cheers,
John Landreman
Colorado Springs, CO



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Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:30:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chip Stewart" <Charles at thestewarts.com>
Subject: Light Beers

Good going, Mark.  I've also dropped about the same amount since January.  To
help, I've added a seltzer water tap to my beer taps.  I have my regulator on
the tank set to 35 psi for the seltzer and for force carbonating new brews. 
Then I have a second regulator (a "mini-regulator" from Lowes) inline to drop to
serving pressure.  When I want a light beer, I'll mix my pale ale with seltzer. 
I usually go about 35% for myself, or 50% for friends who are regular "lite"
beer drinkers.  Or else I'll alternate beer and seltzer.

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Support anti-Spam legislation.
Join the fight http://www.cauce.org

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 Mark Kellums <infidel at springnet1.com> wrote about
Atkins/Splenda:
> 
> Me:
> I've also been following the Atkins diet also since about May 1st this year.
> As of today I've lost 15 lbs. I'm not following it religiously, I'm still
> having my daily intake of coffee and diet sodas. I haven't reduced the
> volume of beer I drink on a nightly basis either, but I have reduced the
> amount of my homebrew consumption and replaced that with one of the low carb
> brews. Namely Miller Lite. I prefer the Miller Lite over the Michelob Ultra.
> It's amazing how good a bottle of Miller Lite taste when faced with the
> choice of no beer at all.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:41:10 -0400
From: Jennifer/Nathan Hall <hallzoo at comcast.net>
Subject: All Hail and Farewell to the Beer Man

In response to a post I noticed yesterday, my LHBS has just recently gone
"tits up in the mud" as well. Too bad- I really liked being able to get fresh,
cold yeast instead of risking the summer transit through the mail system. No
other homebrew stores within 100 miles - so I guess internet order is the only
way to go now. I don't blame the guy, though - people just aren't brewing as
much and those who do choose a well-stocked internet site over a not-so-well
stocked (see "about to go out of business, but not quite there yet")  HBS.

Nate Hall
BBV Brewing
It's 90F outside, lager season!!



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Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:11:31 -0500
From: "The Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty" <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: St. Pat's Gambrinus Yeast

I recently brewed 3 lagers (a helles, ofest and bohemian pilsener)
using the Gambrinus lager yeast offered through St. Pat's. While the
yeast seemed to be a solid performer, I did notice that the it
required rousing at the beginning of the primary fermentation period
(shortly after pitching and a day or so later) to fully ferment the
beer. Has anyone else had this experience? The beers seem otherwise
quite good so far (though one is in the primary and the others are
still lagering).

Cheers -- tafkaKS

====
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:21:29 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Atkins/Splenda

Funny- Sucralose is supposed to be acid-stable and passes through our bodies
chemically unchanged !

FWIW,
 -Steve


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Kellums" <infidel at springnet1.com>
To: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at adelphia.net>; "Posting Address
Only - No Requests" <homebrew at hbd.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 11:56 AM
Subject: Atkins/Splenda


> -Steve A. writes:
>
> For what little it's worth I don't believe the explanations behind Atkins
> either, but I've lost 26.5lbs/12.0kg since Xmas on Atkins with only the
> modest beer drinking concession to drink highly attenuated styles (and
count
> the non-alc carbs).   I think the success of this diet has a lot more to
do
> with disrupting  eating habits while still permitting significant latitude
> in choosing foods rather than Dr.Atkins more ornate explanations.
>
> Me:
> I've also been following the Atkins diet also since about May 1st this
year.
> As of today I've lost 15 lbs. I'm not following it religiously, I'm still
> having my daily intake of coffee and diet sodas. I haven't reduced the
> volume of beer I drink on a nightly basis either, but I have reduced the
> amount of my homebrew consumption and replaced that with one of the low
carb
> brews. Namely Miller Lite. I prefer the Miller Lite over the Michelob
Ultra.
> It's amazing how good a bottle of Miller Lite taste when faced with the
> choice of no beer at all.
>
>  I've also been using a lot more Splenda lately and I'm naturally curious
as
> to whether or not it is fermentable??
>
> Mark Kellums
> Decatur Il.
>
>




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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:51:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Warren Place <wrplace at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: RE: splenda fermentation

Splenda is not fermentable, but the maltodextrin they package it with is
by some organisms.  I've used it to sweeten several ciders with good
results.

Warren Place



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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:26:27 -0400
From: "dan moore" <moore14 at charter.net>
Subject: Mills

To add to the confusion about mills:  I started with the corona-but
purchased an Automatic when they became available to homebrewers.  This was
to increase speed and consistency-but the mill never would work correctly.
To the company's credit they worked with me and ultimately refunded my
money.  I now have a JSP-never a problem-only wish I'd take the time to
modify the hopper to increase capacity.

Dan Moore
Plattsburgh, NY




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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Warren Place <wrplace at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: RE: Crosshair Removal in Food Grade Quick Disconnects

> From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com>
> Subject: US Plastics Quick Disconnects
> Those look like the same fittings sold by US Plastics.  They are
> manufactured by Colder Products Company (www.colder.com) and have "CPC"
> molded on the "push to disconnect" button.
        www.morebeer.com also sells these.  They're expensive, and I've
heard people say they don't last, but I've had okay luck with them.  I
drilled out the crosshairs on a few.  This weekend I added a few more to
my system without crosshair removal and learned that that definately is a
source of blockage when you add in hops.  To drill them be very carefull.
A drill will go through them like a hot knife in butter.  I driller a tiny
pilot hole in the center, then enlarged it.  I didn't "finish" the
surface but would love to hear of ways to get rid of the burs left by
drilling.  I thought about using a hot needle to cut out the disconnects
(much like the knife and butter example above).  I plan to do that with
the ones I just bought.


Warren Place



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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:20:03 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: no beer at all

Mark Kellums writes, "It's amazing how good a bottle of Miller Lite taste 
when faced with the choice of no beer at all."

It's amazing this is perceived as a choice at all.  I contend that there's 
not much difference between no beer at all and no beer flavor at all.  Is 
Single Malt on the Atkins diet?

Jeff Gladish, Tampa




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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:27:55 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Brass fittings in mash-tun/kettle

I am having a LOT of trouble finding pieces l at local stores that I can
use for weld-free ball valve fittings on my kettle.  It basically comes
down to brass or pvc pipe pieces in combination with copper hardware.  I
am under the impression that brass and pvc are not ok for use in
mash-tun and boil kettle operations because they can potentially put
chemicals into the hot wort and hot liquor.  Am I wrong in thinking?
Anyone use a weld-less setup that could advise me?  Thanks.

Parker Dutro,
P-town, OR




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---