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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  brew shops near CA ("Braam Greyling")
  fod grade sealents. ("Edward D")
   ("Rich Lanam")
  Re:  Brass fittings in mash-tun/kettle ("George Bulla")
  re:  mailing beer ("Jim Yeagley")
   ("Jim")
  White film on white beer... (=?iso-8859-1?q?Joris=20Dallaire?=)
  Re: Mailing Beer ("Armstrong, Eric K [EH&S]")
  RE: Denver in September ("Leonard, Phil")
  Scottish and Smoked Malt (darrell.leavitt)
  Malt Companies (Robert Sandefer)
  Future of homebrewing and hops ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  pH solutions ("Byron Towles")
  Re: grain mills (Matthew Arnold)
  Fw: mailing beer ("Chad Stevens")
  Seeking Dave Draper (Chris.Pittock)
  Conditioning Scotch Ale in a Virgin Barrel ("Jonathan Royce")
  AHA Conference (Jeff & Ellen)
  Orval (J & B Gallihue)


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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:51:56 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: brew shops near CA

Hi,

There is a small chance that I will visit nearby the following :
Marina Del Rey, CA  

If you know of a good Homebrew shop nearby pls send me the name/URL. 

Any shop within quick shipping distance is also o.k. 

Regards

Braam




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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:25:15 +0800
From: "Edward D" <edwardd at dodo.com.au>
Subject: fod grade sealents.

when i was in the aquariam hobby the acetic curing sealents Joel Trojnar
mentioned where teh only ones we would use. in the short term that cause ph
fluctuations but 3-5 days and thay are almost compleatly inert. if thay are
also heat resistant i would have no problem using them in brewing. i was
always far more fusy about the toxisity of things that went into my fish
tank than what i eat myself.

Edward



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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:19:05 -0400
From: "Rich Lanam" <rlanam at kaplancollege.edu>
Subject: 


I have recently begun all grain brewing and two of the four brews have
had grassy flavors.  From what I have read it seems that it would be
cold side aeration.  I have been brewing extract for several years
without the grassy flavor. My fermentation procedures are identical to
except for the use of oxygen when pitching the yeast.  Any
ideas/suggestions?  Is the CSA more likely when all-grain brewing? 

I work in New York City and am seeing billboards and bar banners
advertising Bare Knuckle Stout. It sounds interesting until you read the
fine print.  It's an A-B product. Has anyone tried it? 



Rich Lanam
Superfund Brewing
Warren NJ



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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:56:41 -0400
From: "George Bulla" <chip_bulla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:  Brass fittings in mash-tun/kettle

Parker,

As I'm sure you know, stainless steel fittings are probably the best but 
IMHO, they're to darned expensive.  As an alternative, you can use brass 
fittings for your weldless setup just fine with a little bit of work.  As 
far as PVC goes, I would personally be concerned about leaching chemicals 
out of the PVC when working at higher temperatures.  Note, that's just my 
opinion and I have no facts to back me up.  Anyway, getting back to the 
brass fittings, the reason some folks have concern when using brass is 
because there are trace amounts of lead addedto the alloy to machine it and 
a thin layer of lead is left on the surface that must be removed prior to 
use.  As you know, I'm sure, lead isn't too good for you to ingest.  
Therefore, to remove the lead, a mixture of a 2-to-1 ratio by volume of 
vinegar to peroxide can be used.  The vinegar must be 5% acid by volume 
(standard white distilled vinegar) and the hydrogen peroxide should be 3% by 
volume for the previously mentioned ratio.  Both should be easy to get at 
the grocery store and/or a drugstore.  Using this mixture, soak the brass 
fittings for 5 minutes or less.  When the brass turns a buttery yellow-gold, 
it's done and can be taken out.  However, if the solution your using starts 
turning a blue-green color, the peroxide is used up and the copper in the 
brass is dissolving which exposes more lead.  Thus you would have to make a 
new batch of solution and repeat the process.  All of the information that I 
just gave you can be found in John Palmer's "How to Brew" book in Appendix B 
(Thanks, John).  There is an online version of the book at www.howtobrew.com 
and the information about cleaning brass, in particular, is at 
http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html.  NOTE: I'm not 
affiliated in any way, just a satisfied customer, yada yada yada...  Hope 
that answers your question.

Good Brewing!

Chip Bulla
Apex NC
[525.8,147.7] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:51:40 -0400
From: "Jim Yeagley" <jyeag at core.com>
Subject: re:  mailing beer

>My suggestion to homebrewers: ignore the shipping laws, whatever
>they are. If someone at USPS/UPS/FedEX/etc. asks the contents of
>a package, just lie. Nobody will break down your door for illegal
>shipment of a few bottles of homebrew.

Peter, Peter, Peter!

That's exactly the kind of thing the Postal Inspectors love to do!  If you
must break rules, it is important to know that the USPS rules are actually
federal law.  For whatever reason the laws were originally written, their
overall purpose is to protect the mail, the customers, and the employees.
I, the Postal Inspection Service, and my 800,000 coworkers take these rules
pretty seriously.

Jim Yeagley






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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:51:44 -0700
From: "Jim" <res0rrgu at verizon.net>
Subject: 


Regarding Parkers Post,
 
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:27:55 -0700
>From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com>
>Subject: Brass fittings in mash-tun/kettle
 
>I am having a LOT of trouble finding pieces l at local stores that I
can use for weld-free ball valve fittings on my kettle.  >It basically
comes down to brass or pvc pipe pieces in combination with copper
hardware.  I am under the impression that brass >and pvc are not ok for
use in mash-tun and boil kettle operations because they can potentially
put chemicals into the hot wort >and hot liquor.  Am I wrong in
thinking? Anyone use a weld-less setup that could advise me?  Thanks.
 
>Parker Dutro,
>P-town, OR
 
Hi Parker, I have used brass for years in both mash process and boiler.
No problems yet from any thing leaching from them (humm, maybe I should
get these lumps checked out).  PVC however WILL leach unwanted nasties
into your brew.  Now CPVC is different, it is made for more food grade
applications yet I am not sure of its temperature level.  CPVC is
available at your local home center and is white.
 
Have fun,
Jim Davis (ipalover at rykersworld.com)
Beaverton, Oregon




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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:15:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Joris=20Dallaire?= <jorisdallaire at yahoo.ca>
Subject: White film on white beer...

Hello brewmasters,

I have a strange brew in the primary right now and
need your advice 
diagnosing what went wrong. It is a standard white
with 50/50 malted wheat and 
canadian 6-row malt. Full mashing with all steps,
coriander and orange peel 
added to boil along with 15g of irish mosh. Added a
starter made from 
Wyeast #3942 Belgian Wheat yeast.

The primary fermentation started fine, but after a
week a white film began 
forming on the surface. The secondary fermentation is
to take place in the kegs, 
so i left it in primary a bit longer to observe before
racking.

Now, after three weeks i lost hope of recking, the
film has become a 1/4" thick 
white/light-green film and it smells like solvent or
contact glue...! This one 
will go all the way down the drain...

Anybody experienced this or know what happenned? And
don't tell me it's a 
genetic mutation... :O>

Thank you for any advice...
Joris.




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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:25:29 -0500
From: "Armstrong, Eric K [EH&S]" <ekarmst at iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Mailing Beer

In HBD post # 4267 Peter A. Ensminger wrote: 

My suggestion to homebrewers: ignore the shipping laws, whatever 
they are. If someone at USPS/UPS/FedEX/etc. asks the contents of 
a package, just lie. Nobody will break down your door for illegal 
shipment of a few bottles of homebrew. 

Cheerio! 
Peter A. Ensminger 
Syracuse, NY 
<<http://hbd.org/ensmingr>> 

Brewers: 

There is no reason to lie about the contents of your packages.
Just declare your bottles, not the bottle contents. You may want
to declare them as plastic. I routinely ship my homebrew as breweriana
collectables or collectable bottles. If non-destructive evaluation
methods are used to check the package at least the description
should agree with what shows up on the monitor. Over pack in
two boxes so the bottles do not break and use two bags so there is no
chance of a leak if they do break. Don't give the carrier a reason
to open the package. The whole goal is to get the bottles to the contest
quickly and efficiently. I do not use UPS because they require me to
present an open package which they seal. FED EX rocks and is usually
the least expensive carrier. Do not ship via USPS unless you want the
postal inspectors showing up at your door asking questions. 

Eric Armstrong 
Ames, IA



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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:52:36 -0500
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com>
Subject: RE: Denver in September

Chris wants to know if a trip to New Belgium in Ft. Collins is warranted 
while visiting Denver--

Yes, absolutely!  And checkout Coopersmith brewpub while you are there.

Philip


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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:22:44 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Scottish and Smoked Malt

I just transferred a Scottis Red Ale from primary to secondary, and 1/2 lb 
of Peated Malt made it taste wonderful! The grain bill was:
4 lb Pale Malt
2.5 lb Wheat Malt
2 lb Dark Crystal
 .5 lb Peated Malt
1 lb CaraAmber
3 lb Munich Malt

My efficiency was down a bit, but who cares if it tastes good...

OG was 1.056
gravity going into secondary was 1.020

yeast was wlp028 Edinburgh slurry (second use)

IBU was 52.6

I find that a little peated really helps this style...

 ..Darrell




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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:36:04 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Malt Companies

In recent weeks, I have become very interested in the various malt supply 
companies and the similiariaties and differences between their products.

So...I pose this to the group: What are your experiences with various malt 
company products? Are there any generally horrible companies out there?
More importantly, are there any specifically terrible malts?

Has anyone done side-by-side comparisons of competing malts? For example, 
could Briess dark Munich malt be substituted for Durst dark Munich malt in 
a dunkel or dunkelweizen recipe (where it's a significant portion of the 
grain bill)?

Likewise, has anyone tested whether using British pale malt (e.g., Muntons 
& Fisons) is really superior to using American pale malt (e.g., Briess) in 
British beers (pale ales, porters, etc.)?

Thoughts, diatribes, and experiments welcome.
Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA 


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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:00:10 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: Future of homebrewing and hops


David Perez notes (and extrapolates) the trend to high alpha hops in 
commercial breweries.  Why not homegrow to homebrew??  I do - not for all, 
mind you but I have a couple of C at $C*DE plants (can't be too careful with 
all the knee-jerk grapefruit haters ;), some Mount Hood and a Nugget plant.  
My tastes have changed to big and/or hoppy lagers and I'd like to grow more 
of the noble sourced low alpha hops like the Mount Hood.  Any other local 
(West Coast) hop gardeners out there??  I'd love to swap some rhizomes in 
the fall and broaden the range a little.

BTW, the cascade is a bit of a weed and can even (sometimes) be grown from a 
cutting mid-season by placing in water with rooting hormone on it.  Anyone 
know tricks on how to do this with others???

Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at (1918, 298) Miles Apparent Rennerian
Vancouver, BC, Canada.



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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:57:40 -0500
From: "Byron Towles" <beer.man at cox.net>
Subject: pH solutions


Does anyone know of common items I can use to calibrate my pH checker? 
I'd really like to avoid buying the $25+ stuff from Grainger if 
possible. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.




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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:37:00 -0500
From: Matthew Arnold <marnold at ez-net.com>
Subject: Re: grain mills

> I started out with the Valley Mill, which is a great product.  But
> then I got a BarleyCrusher and had two mills for several years.
> Finally about 4 or 5 months ago I sold my Valley Mill to a guy in
> our club since I just wasn't using it anymore.  As already mentioned,
> the BarleyCrusher is all metal construction (mmmmm, shiny metal ;-))
> and very sturdy.  And of course a lifetime warranty.

Just a datapoint (that and about $7.00 will get you the micro six-pack 
of your choice), I purchased a non-adjustable JSP maltmill a number of 
years ago and have been very happy with it. If I take reasonable care of 
it, I should be able to hand it down to my kids and grandkids.

Having said that, this is the first time I have seen the BarleyCrusher. 
That looks like quite the machine at a great price. Still, I have no 
reason (or cash) to upgrade. If I get any money to waste on a hobby, my 
guitar neck is warping . . .

Matt



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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:07:10 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Fw: mailing beer

In my original post, 18 USC 1716(f) blah blah blah, I didn't discuss motive
too awfully much.  After the volume of email I've received, I feel compelled
to expand on the issue a bit.

Not only can you not send beer through the mail, as a result of state and
local tariffs, you can't use common carrier to most states from California
either.

If there is a "no spitting on the sidewalk" ordinance, no one really cares,
with the exception of the person who is charged with enforcing the no
spitting law.  The same is nominally the case with mailing beer.  Postal
inspectors are so busy with drugs (and post 9/11, explosives) even they
really could care less about the occasional bottle of booze.  As a result,
we've all been happy to muddle along "flying under the radar."  But if it
stares them in the face, they are obliged to act.  And many of the common
carriers object to alcohol more doggedly than the postal folks.

So to go to the heart of the issue, to fix "the mails" will be most
effective.  As goes the mail, so go the common carriers.

Here's the deal.  While I'm not a postal inspector (thank goodness) I am a
federal agent kinda' guy who spends 90% of his time fighting smuggling of
one sort or another.  As a result, I'm held to a higher standard than the
average citizen.  Yes, I'm the guy who enforces the spitting ordanance;
kinda' sorta'.  And even I could probably ship "under the radar" from now
till the cows come home and never have a problem with it.  However if, for
some reason, my violating 18 USC 1716(f) stared my boss in the face at some
point in my career, it would not be pretty.

As far as letting sleeping dogs lie, I have thus far done a reasonable job
of treading lightly so as not to raise any red flags anywhere.  I don't want
the brew community to have to pay for any misstep I might make.

I'm not an anal retentive schmuck, and I don't typically go out trying to
save the world.  I guess the underlying issue is this: if we don't
proactively fight to ensure our civil liberties, they become eroded by
virtue of our tacit consent.  And at the same time people in the UK are
going to jail for defending their own homes (and please, for the love of
Pete, lets not go off on tangential gun and tobacco posts) I don't want to
be a criminal for shipping a few brews.  As technical and ridiculous a
distinction as this may seem today, in our post 9/11 era, I've seen a whole
lot of ridiculous stuff perpetrated on the public in the name of public
safety.  If it seems like a technical little oversight that we can just fly
under today, is it possibly something that may be a major issue 50 years
from now?  80 years ago, they would have been beating your door down for
shipping alcohol!  Is it an issue that will just resolve itself 50 years
from now?    I don't know, but beating my head against the wall gives me
something to do in the meantime and it helps me to sleep better at night
knowing I fought to make life a little less precarious for my fellow
homebrewers.

I value the AHA and I don't blame them at all for not wanting to get mired
in this issue.  So, I think it's probably in the AHA's best interest if I
just beat my head against the wall on this one myself (most recently with
Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein's offices).  If I step in it, then my
boots are the only ones dirty.  If I get lucky and get that one line of
legislation added, then the AHA can embrace it after the fact and we are all
winners.

 And with regard to the senators, their legislative aids are all in D.C.  I
need one or two people, preferably who live inside the beltway, who would be
willing to plead this case with senate staff if that time ever comes.  Any
volunteers?  Gluttons for punishment?

 Thanks,

 Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego, CA



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Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:07:52 +1000
From: Chris.Pittock at dpi.vic.gov.au
Subject: Seeking Dave Draper

Hi All,

  Apols for the non-brewing content of this post.  I'm trying to track down
former HBD'er Dave Draper.  His content on the hbd.org site has an invalid
email address.  The good people I've asked haven't heard from him for a
while (last contact Feb 2002).  Thanks Jeff, Pat and Bev!
  Former Foam Ranger, academic in some kind of materials engineering (?),
last rumoured to be with NASA Houston or Huntsville, Alabama.  A fine
brewer to share a brew with in the Australian summer!
  Reply direct initially please.

Cheers,

Chris Pittock - Horsham, Australia




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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:14:31 -0400
From: "Jonathan Royce" <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: Conditioning Scotch Ale in a Virgin Barrel

Having been inspired to try barrel aging after reading some recent posts and
the article
in the most recent issue of BYO, I've invested in a 6 liter oak barrel from
Thousand Oaks:
http://www.geocities.com/chaunceydog_91320/

It just came today and I must say it's quite beautiful. (I was about to pack
it away with my other minikegs, but SWMBO suggested we put it on a mantle in
the living room!)

Now, I bought this in hopes of aging a strong scotch ale that I will be
making this fall. My plan is to "keg" 5-6 liters of the beer in this barrel
and age it for 1 year, but my original idea was that it would be great to be
able to use a bourbon barrel (not a virgin oak barrel), since this is what
distilleries use for scotch anyway.

(If it's good enough for scotch, it must be good enough for my strong scotch
ale, right?) However, I understand that a lot of the flavor from used
bourbon barrels used for scotch is obviously from the bourbon. So, here's my
proposal: I'm thinking of buying the cheapest 1.5 liter bottle of bourbon I
can find, diluting it to 6 liters and filling the barrel for the duration of
the summer. Then, when I'm ready to bottle the beer, I'll drain the barrel,
fill with beer and reseal.

Now for the questions:
1) Do you think I'll get enough bourbon flavor from a 3:1 dilution to have
the wood absorb the flavor of the bourbon?
2) Do you think a 3:1 dilution of bourbon (essentially 10% ABV) is enough to
sanitize the interior of the barrel?
3) Is wasting cheap bourbon okay in the name of better homebrew?
4) Will it matter what kind of bourbon I'm using?

Also, for those interested in obtaining such a barrel, I recommend *not*
paying the price on the website. Instead, go to ebay.com and search for
"Tequila Barrel". You'll likely find one for sale. Bid on it. If you win,
you've likely saved money over the regular price. In my case, I didn't win,
but that was okay. Bryan emailed after the auction ended and offered to sell
one to me for LESS than the final ebay price. I never responded to the first
emai, but a week later I received another email with an even lower offer. I
finally bought. In the end, I paid $44.95 including s/h. (You may want to
just email him and ask if he'd be willing to sell one at that price.)

Good luck, happy brewing and thanks in advance,
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com




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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:24:45 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: AHA Conference

I'll be in Chicago next week for the AHA Conference and am wondering if a 
lot of the regulars from this forum will also be there.  It would be nice 
to be able to put a face with a name or symbol or whatever.  Plus I need to 
know how much Pablano Witbier I should bring along in case -S shows up. 
 (I'm thinking, not a whole lot.)

So, who is going?

Jeff Gladish, Tampa



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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:35:13 -0400
From: J & B Gallihue <jgallihue at comcast.net>
Subject: Orval

I was reflecting on a goblet of Orval this evening over the clerk's
question, "What the hell does that stuff taste like?"

It finally dawned on me ... it reminds me of my first decent chardonnay.
Tart w/ oakey flavor, hint of creamy vanilla in back.  Time to get those
Bastogne yeasties working on a clone!

By the way, any of you ever watch Band of Brothers?  Puts the geography of
that Bastogne yeast in a whole new light.  I'll pitch Bastogne on Flag Day
and salute the EZ Company and all the other WWII Veterans.  Curious? -
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_CONT.HTM
As for Orval good thread on HBD w/ plenty of discussion of how to get that
unique flavor.

Cheers,
Joel Gallihue
Columbia, MD



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