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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  OK, I'm done. Now, some beer stuff. (Teresa Knezek)
  Orval ("Troy A. Wilson")
  ok, now back to Brewing: (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: Scottish and Smoked Malt (David Edge)
  Re: Smoking, enough already.... (NO Spam)
  Is Bill W. an Alcoholic??? (David Perez)
  Missing Lines again ("Byron Towles")
  Thanks for Pig info ("Patricia Beckwith")
  Drilling a Kenmore Fridge ("Dave Larsen")
  RE:  Porcelain Repair (Bill Tobler)
  Advice for a new brewer? ("john w")
  Lemongrass ("Steve Jones")


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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:59:04 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: OK, I'm done. Now, some beer stuff.

BEER RELATED: Recently discovered Deschutes Brewing Company's Cinder 
Cone Red ale. Love the stuff. Spending way too much money on it. Is 
there a clone recipe out for this one? I've only recently seen it in 
area stores, so I don't know if it's a new brew, or one they've just 
never "imported" to the frozen north before...

OK. Final words on smoking below. Just clarifying a little misunderstanding.

At 12:31 AM -0400 6/21/03, Request Address Only - No Articles wrote:
>Now here you are saying that nobody can smoke, ever...

I never said that. :-) I fully support a person's freedom to kill 
themselves with whatever vice they choose. Legalize drugs and tax the 
hell out of them.... it would probably make it a lot easier to 
liberalize homebrew-related laws if the gov't had to fuss over 
regulating all the 'hard stuff'. However I do not support their 
fallacious "right" to inflict the side-effects of their habit on me.

But then I suppose people would be arguing that they should be able 
to smoke heroin and freebase down at the corner bar too. After all, 
anyone who doesn't want to have to breathe heroin smoke and cocaine 
fumes in a public bar or restaurant must be a socialist, eh? ;-)

>By the way Teresa, I'm now withdrawing my marriage proposal.
>The Beer Phantom

I hope I'm not supposed to be somehow hurt or insulted by this. ROFL
- -- 
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
                      -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:06:18 -0500
From: "Troy A. Wilson" <troy at troyandjulia.com>
Subject: Orval

After reading a few posts about Orval I happen to be in my favorite beer
vendor's store
when I looked up from the Young's Double Chocolate I was about to
purchase and spotted
an odd shaped bottle. Something about it struck me as familiar. Then the
name hit me...
Orval!

After hearing both good and bad from the HBD posters, I had to try it. I
was prepared for
the worst, but hoped for the best. End result: I like it. A lot. I'm
going to buy more.
Then I'm going to figure out how to make it.

I love homebrewing.

Troy A. Wilson
troy at troyandjulia.com

Here's to you and here's to me,
Life long friends we'll always be.
If ever we should disagree,
F at &K you and here's to me!

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003
 



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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:56:34 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: ok, now back to Brewing:

I  am planning a light hefe (to be followed next week with a darker hefe) 
and am open to comments and suggestions.  This is what I am thinking about:

5 lb 2 row (either Golden Promise pale, or a Moravian Pils)
5 lb malted wheat
1 lb malted Rye (I like the bite that this renders to a hefe)

150F for an hour or so...

1 oz Tet (17 or so IBU) at start of 60

no finish hops....

wlp300 Hefe vial...1st use...

Any comments, suggestions , improvements, would be appreciated.

 ...Darrell
Happy Brewing,...and responsible Drinking!




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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:34:59 +0100
From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Scottish and Smoked Malt

Darrell told us:

 >I just transferred a Scottish Red Ale from primary to secondary, and 1/2 lb
 >of Peated Malt made it taste wonderful! The grain bill was:
 >4 lb Pale Malt
 >2.5 lb Wheat Malt
 >2 lb Dark Crystal
 >.5 lb Peated Malt
 >1 lb CaraAmber
 >3 lb Munich Malt

This sounds very tasty, but is there meant to be any connection
between "Scottish Ales" and ales brewed in Scotland?
The defining characteristics of ales brewed in Scotland were
(I thought) low-ish temperature fermentation and sparing use of hops,
both a consequence of geography. 
Could one perhaps call this style a 
Classic American Scotch Ale?

Half a pound of smoked in that lot sounds low - I didn't get much
from the kilogram (of Rauch) I put in a similar beer - do you know
the level of peating? It can vary from at under 5 to over 80 ppm phenols.
Does anyone know how this compares with Bamberger Rauchmalz?

David Edge
(who lived in Scotland for 25 years)
Signalbox Brewery, Derby




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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:24:27 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Smoking, enough already....


>There are plenty of people lining up right behind the anti-smoking
>nazis and they have a whole list of things to protect you from
>because you're too stupid to take care of yourself.  They have a
>whole bunch of things they would love to ban.   Alcohol is on the
>list, so is junk food, so are guns, so are automobiles (no, I'm
>not kidding, anyone own an SUV out there?).

Yeah, there was a campaign not long ago - television ads - proclaiming
SUV owners as criminals who support drugs and terrorism, because they
allege that money from gas purchases for SUV's goes to drug lords and
also to countries that fund terrorism.

It was nothing more than a scare campaign (shortly after 9/11), and
a bunch of mindless drivel, because doesn't ALL gas money go to
these places?  Iraq is one of our biggest oil producers, and they're
the ones trying to ill us all and blow us all up.  So why target only
SUV's?  What about all the 18 wheelers on our roads, pickup trucks,
motor homes, all the other cars, etc?  I suppose they don't use any
gas.

No, this was specifically targeted at SUV's because there are
people who don't like the bigger vehicles on the road, and want
to try to push auto manufacturers to scale them back and legislation
to restrict them. 

And yes, this is another example of how people make up stories and
twist facts to influence public perception and attempt to control
some area of your life.

We hear about guns all the time.  And just imagine for one second
if those kids who shot up Columbine had had ONE DROP of alcohol
in their systems, what the fallout on alcohol from that might
have been.

Roe vs. Wade is constantly under attack.  There are news stories
today about it from the Democratic Presidential candidates.  One
of them favors appointing justices who would overturn Roe vs. Wade.

I know if you look into who's behind the attack on tobacco, you'll
find it's also big democrats - like Al Gore for one, (Mr. Anti-
personal freedom himself) and also the whole thing really began
under Clinton.  I wonder if HE wasn't trying to extort money from
the tobacco companies, as we know now that his whole presidency
was just one big grab by him and Hillary.  And the thought of
her running for president scares me to death.

Also, alot of big, organized religious groups, who apparently have
money to throw around, are also behind the attack on tobacco.
I don't know if that's true of the attack on SUV's or not.
So apparently, we have to keep an eye on big religion as well
as big government.  But then, Jim and Tammy Faye showed you
what big religion is all about, (air conditioned dog houses
and Gucci toilet bags) so you should already know that.

No flames from here, I think you said it best when you wrote:

>Government is the most intrusive and bloated entity on the planet.  And
>people like Teresa and Brian are more than happy to keep feeding it.  The
>more power you give it over your life, the more it will want.

Look at Russia.  Big government ran people's lives for many decades,
every aspect.  And people had to stand in line for 8 hours or more
to get a bag of potatoes or a carton of eggs.  When the KGB was in
its heyday, people really had no rights at all.  If they said
something publicly that the gov't disagreed with, they disappeared
in the middle of the night, never to be seen again.

I remember vividly when the first McDonald's opened over there,
how it cost more than a week's wages in Russia for a family of
4 to eat there, and how it was actually considered an upscale
restaurant.  I also remember many stories of people taking all
the napkins, salt, sugar, and even toilet paper from the McDonald's,
because these people had nothing.

This is what big government does, and what it will do to you, too,
if you let it.

Bill



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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:26:41 -0400
From: David Perez <perez at gator.net>
Subject: Is Bill W. an Alcoholic???

I tried posting this back on the 15th but it never showed up. So, I try 
again.

The most interesting thing that has risen from the great question about 
how much we drink, is how the bulk of the responses shatter the notion 
that we are all Alcoholics. I have recently gone to kegging and have 
seen my consumption drop from 1-2 twelve oz beers per day to 1-2 five oz 
beers. Of course our brew club meetings and parties increase that amount 
significantly.

There have been a couple of very good responses to Bill's query but I 
felt I should throw in the clinical response. First off, let me state 
that I am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, who runs a substance abuse 
treatment program (anyone care to discuss perceived conflicts between by 
vocation and advocation?). Below you will find the diagnostic criteria 
for Substance Dependence, which is another term for Alcoholism. Now, 
while Spencer gave a good primer on the genetic underpinnings of 
addiction, you will notice that there is no reference to that in the 
diagnostic criteria. That is because while there may be genetic links to 
addiction for many people, there are some with no genetic predisposition 
at all who become dependent on substances.

Substance Dependence:

A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically 
significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of 
the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
(1) tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
(a) a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve 
Intoxication or desired effect
(b) markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of 
the substance
(2) Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
(a) the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance (refer to 
Criteria A and B of the criteria sets for Withdrawal from the specific 
substances)
(b) the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or 
avoid withdrawal symptoms
(3) the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer 
period than was intended
(4) there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or 
control substance use
(5) a great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the 
substance (e.g., visiting multiple doctors or driving long distances), 
use the substance (e.g., chain-smoking), or recover from its effects
(6) important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given 
up or reduced because of substance use
(7) the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a 
persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely 
to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g., current 
cocaine use despite recognition of cocaine-induced depression, or 
continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by 
alcohol consumption)
Specify if:
With Physiological Dependence: evidence of tolerance or withdrawal 
(i.e., either Item 1 or 2 is present)
Without Physiological Dependence: no evidence of tolerance or withdrawal 
(i.e., neither Item 1 nor 2 is present)
Course specifiers (see text for definitions):
Early Full Remission
Early Partial Remission
Sustained Full Remission
Sustained Partial Remission
On Agonist Therapy
In a Controlled Environment


Dave Perez
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL
Home of the 1st Annual Hogtown Brew-Off, October 11, 2003





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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:13:58 -0500
From: "Byron Towles" <beer.man at cox.net>
Subject: Missing Lines again

I've noticed lots of lines missing from recent posts, so I'll drop
this info back on the digest from when I posted last year.


copy / paste from HBD #4063, 10 October, 2002


Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:46:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Byron's Yahoo Account" <btowles at yahoo.com>
Subject: missing lines

Hey gang, this probably only applies to those of us who are new to the
digest,
but the issue of missing lines from posts has come up before. I've noticed a
trend, and it seems any line that begins with the word "end" will be
eliminated from the posted article. I know that's hard to keep in mind when
waxing eloquently about our favorite hobby. Anyway, if you happen to be
reading your article prior to sending and you see "END" starting one of your
lines, you may want to try to re-word what you have to say.

Just posting some thoughts and observations.

Byron Towles
New Orleans, LA
Crescent City Homebrewers
http://hbd.org/crescent




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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:15:21 -0500
From: "Patricia Beckwith" <beckwith at gwtc.net>
Subject: Thanks for Pig info

Thanks to all who answered my newbie post about party pig carbonation  in
digest #4262.

I tried my wheat brew today when the temps got into the 90's and it was
wonderful!  I'm the only beer drinker in the house so that's more for me.
There is a lot of knowledge and experience on the HBD. I appreciate being
able to learn from you.  Back to lurk mode and reading the archives.  Anyone
else from South Dakota?



Patricia Beckwith

Murdo, South Dakota

[856.9, 283.1] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:33:48 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Drilling a Kenmore Fridge

Dave asked a question about drilling holes into a small Kenmore 
refrigerator.

There is a compressor on the outside bottom back and a cooling plate over 
most of the inside back of the fridge.  Fortunately, most of the lines and 
compressor are pretty well exposed, so I was pretty confident drilling 
through the thing.

So far, the only hole I've drilled in it is on the back bottom left, between 
the cooling plate and the compressor, for the CO2.  I made sure to drill 
from the inside to the outside, right below the cooling plate  (drilling the 
other way, from the outside to the inside, you'd have to kind of guestimate 
where the cooling plate is, which did not seem like a good idea).  The hole 
went through without a problem, well above the compressor and all the lines.

Right now to dispense beer I open the fridge and dispense from the kegs 
directly.  However, I have plans to put a two tap draft tower right in the 
middle top of the fridge, but have not done it yet (one of many beer related 
projects I have).   I was just going to take the risk and drill right 
through the top.  I am reasonably confident there is nothing in the way 
there, but I guess there is a small risk.

Dave Larsen
Tucson, AZ

>
>Brewsters:
>
>Dave Larsen suggests a Sears Fridge is perfect for two kegs and no freezer.
>Looks perfect for what I have in mind.
>
>Dave, how did you modify it? Where can I drill safely?
>
>Keep on Brewin'
>
>Dave Burley
>



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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:19:57 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  Porcelain Repair

Somebody from somewhere asked on Saturday,

"Does anyone know of a product that can be used to repair damaged
porcelain inside a brew kettle?"


Loctite makes a product called "Porcelain Repair."  It is a small tube, 1.5
oz and is a white brush on repair.  I threw out the box long ago, but I seem
to remember it was good up to 250 degrees F.  It doesn't say on the tube.
It is Item No. 80234.  Stock No. FV-1.  I got it at the local Hardware
store.  This is a Petroleum product, and has a very strong smell when first
put on.  Once dried, the smell goes away and is rock hard. I used it in my
HLT to seal some rust spots on the inside welds of the couplings.  I hope
that helps.  If you include your name and where you are from it makes your
post more interesting.  Maybe someone lives right around the corner from you
who could help!!  Ya never know.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian






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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:39:35 -0500
From: "john w" <j2saret at hotpop.com>
Subject: Advice for a new brewer?

Judy liked the black and tan and is sure she wants to homebrew.  I have lent
her my copy of Reese's BETTER BEER AND HOW TO BREW IT. Which I think is a
great simple introduction to kit beers and partial mashing, and  I've
advised her to get the 7 gal ss turkey fryer and propane burner kit for
$30.00 as boiling kettle and primary fermenter.  What other hints, tips or
pieces of equipment not listed in BETTER BEER would be helpful for a brand
new brewer?

John
Duluth Mn.

"Labor is prior to, and independent of capital.
Capital is only the fruit of labour and could never have existed if labor
had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital and deserves
much the higher consideratiion."
A. Lincoln (1st marxist er Republican president)




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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:53:45 -0400
From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: Lemongrass

Let's get back to the subject of brewing.

I had a beer last year at a brew festival called a
Lemongrass wheat. I don't remember who the brewery was, but
the guy serving said they really used Lemongrass, and not
some spice or extract or something. SWMBO has asked me to
try to brew it, and I'm planning to do so this week.

However, I got to wondering how to use the lemongrass, and
how much. She picked some up at the natural food store
(dried), and I'm thinking there are a few different ways it
could be used.
1. 'dry-grassed' in the secondary (how to ensure
sanitization?)
2. Steep it in 180F water for 15 minutes, then add the water
to the secondary.
3. Add it to the end of the boil.

Has anybody used it before? Any suggestions?

Steve
I've been at [207.8, 265.3] AR until this morning - now back
at [421.8, 168.5]

PS - Those of you who missed the conference really missed
out on the best homebrew event of all time. Those Chicago
folks really raised the bar for upcoming conferences.

BTW, each conference location is announced at the prior
conference, and this year it was announced that next years
conference will be in Las Vegas.

I've been at [207.8, 265.3] AR until this morning - now back
at [421.8, 168.5]







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