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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Reports on National Homebrewers Conference? (David Radwin)
  brewery automation (J & B Gallihue)
  Scottish Ale (darrell.leavitt)
  HB shop back in buisness.. ("Eyre")
  Stupid Brewer Tricks (Todd Goodman)
  Re: Smoking, enough already (Michael Hartsock)
  ss turkey fryer (Michael Hartsock)
  Lemongrass (Alan Meeker)
  Barley.. ("Eyre")
  Re: ok, now back to Brewing: (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: Issue Number 5 ("Mike Sharp")
  Beer Poll(s) ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Lemongrass Wheat ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Re: Lemongrass ("Jeff Swearengin")
  Brewing with Kids ("Lee and Ant Hayes")
  Chili Cascade Beano Ale (David Wilbur)
  Fridge Drilling Horror Stories ("Dave Larsen")
  Herms wiring (bruce.dir)
  Porcelain repair and Lemongrass ("Jerry Sadowski")
  Rock Bottom discount card ("Leonard, Phil")
  Altbier ("Greg R")
  Greed?/Correction (Donald and Melissa Hellen)
  Brew Tree (Paul Mahoney)
  Substance Dependence ("Edward D")
  Re:  Alcoholism ("Dan McFeeley")


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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:20:46 -0700
From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Reports on National Homebrewers Conference?

> From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
> 
> PS - Those of you who missed the conference really missed
> out on the best homebrew event of all time. Those Chicago
> folks really raised the bar for upcoming conferences.

Steve and other attendees, would you mind taking a few minutes to share 
with the group what you did at the conference and why you liked it? In 
other words, what made the experience worth the time, expense, and 
travel? This is not any sort of challenge, it is just a sincere request 
for information.

Thanks,

David
- -- 
David Radwin in Berkeley CA
news at removethispart.davidradwin.com



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:55:48 -0400
From: J & B Gallihue <jgallihue at comcast.net>
Subject: brewery automation

Folks,
I spent a sunday screwing around with our broken icemaker and determined the
solenoid controlled water inlet valve needed to be replaced. Not too bad for
a city planner.
Now that I understand how these valves work I can better understand the
automated RIMS and HERMS systems out there. If I can resist the temptation
to rush out to buy a PID, the do-it-yourself repair will be justified. : -)

http://fixitnow.com/sbrvrs/icemakers.htm

Joel Gallihue
Columbia, MD



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:19:38 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Scottish Ale


David < david.j.edge at ntlworld.com > : you are right...the names of my 
brews usually follow from the name of the yeast used,...and I don't 
usually pay real close attention to style..but never the less I think it 
will be good..

I am sorry that I no longer have the bag that the peated malt came from so 
I cannot determine its degree of smokiness...I believe that it was 
Weyerman's...

 ..Darrell



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:21:49 -0400
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: HB shop back in buisness..

Good news! That HB shop that I pronounced dead a few weeks ago? Sure enough,
she came back to life. I got a post from a fellow in the area a few days
after I made the pronouncment, telling me that he thought they might not be
closing, but rather just moving. Sure enough, in a bigger, barn shaped
building out in the back of the old place is the new shop. They have a big
banner up now letting everyone know they've moved.. before, they didn't
really advertise the HB aspect to much. Very little, in fact. Maybe they'll
give it a better installation this time around, instead of the cement block
dark room way in the back. The place is called Wine and Beer Art, and it's
on Route 202 in Torrington, CT, for any lurkers out there..

Mike

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:30:23 -0400
From: Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Stupid Brewer Tricks

Well, I can no longer laugh quietly in the background with smug
assurance that *I* would never do something so stupid when others post a
stupid brewer trick.

I have just finished getting my new brewroom cleaned up enough to begin
brewing again after moving everything out of the house while work was
being done on it.

I decided to brew a CACA as my inaugural batch.  I had concerns about the
yeast as it was over a year old, but a starter made Tuesday assured me
that it was in good shape once started.

I printed out my recipe from Promash and brought it down to the brewery
and started to mash.  Hmm, temps don't seem right.  I've never had any
trouble keeping it cool enough for mashin before (DOH!)

Well after an hour of mashing I finally realized I'd succumbed to my own
Mars Lander Debacle.  All the temps were printed out in Celsius!  Yeah,
I was mashing way too cool!  How could anyone be so stupid?  Am I brain
dead?  I knew it was wrong, why didn't I double check?

Well I bumped the temp and mashed at a more proper temperature.

I suppose it will be thin and not very malty.  I guess I'll just call it
a "Lite" beer and give it to the neighbors.

All I can say is that I'm now on the road to recovery and have accepted
that I have a problem.  Yes, I'm an equipment and ingredient abuser.
All my equipment and ingredients have sat (ingredients in freezer and
airtight containers) for far too long.  They've been neglected and I
just feel terrible about it.  I'm just glad I received my wake up call
before someone got hurt.

I'll definately be brewing more often now so that I don't make a stupid
mistake like that again.

Todd
Brewing again in Westford, MA
[630.3, 84 Apparent Rennerian]


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Smoking, enough already

A small correction:

The ads maligning SUV owners with terrorism were a
spoof on the ads that maligned marijuana smoke with
terrorism.  Remember the widely distributed adds about
the kids smoking pot and fueling terrorism.  

The ads about the SUV owners were illustrating the
absurdity of connecting marijuana smoking with
terrorism (because if that was a close link then
people that buy gas must be bedfellows with
terrorists).  Besides, it was 'dubya' who said that
the growing popularity of gas guzzling SUVs and the
like that entrenched a greater dependence on nations
like Iraq.

By the by... The homeland security act did more to
devastate personal liberty than the Clinton Admin
could shake a fist at.  

Michael
University of Missouri-Columbia

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:59:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: ss turkey fryer

I am going to be very impressed if someone got a 7
gallon and burner for $30.  It is probably aluminum. 
If it is Al, then it is fine for brewing (its what i
use) but I don't recommend using it for fermentation. 


IF it really is a seven gallon SS pot for $30, where
did you get it!!!

Michael
Columbia, MO

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:34:10 -0400
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Lemongrass

Steve Jones is thinking about using dried lemon grass to spice up a wheat
beer:

Steve, as with many herbs and spices fresh beats out dried by a mile. This
is certainly true of lemongrass. If you can find some whole stalks locally I
think you will get superior results. This is a common item at Asian grocery
stores. There are also web-based sources, such as Thai grocery.com but these
will be pricey. If you can get fresh, you want to strip off the dried outer
leaves and use the thick part of the stalk down near the base. The
lemongrass flavor survives pretty well during a short boil so you can
probably treat it as you would a finishing hop - throw it in about 10
minutes before the end of the boil. You might also want to reserve some for
"dry-grassing." as well.

Good luck!

 -Alan Meeker
Lazy Eight Attobrewery
Baltimore, MD



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:18:24 -0400
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Barley..

I'm looking for a website or some such resourse, to more familiarize myselr
with the different types/brands/varieties/colors/countries/etc etc of
barley.. but it's sorely lacking on the net, from what I can find. Other
than a little blub I got off BYO's site, I'm a bit at a loss. Anyone have
any good info on this stuff??

Mike

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:58:18 -0800
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: ok, now back to Brewing:

On or thereabout 6/23/03, darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu spoke thusly:
>1 oz Tet (17 or so IBU) at start of 60
>
>no finish hops....

I use an ounce of hallertauer at the very end of the boil. Drop it 
in, then turn the burner off.

>wlp300 Hefe vial...1st use...

Personally, the first time I did a hefe with a "proper" hefeweisen 
yeast, the result was a beer far too spicy/fruity for my tastes. The 
next time around, I used the same recipe, the yeast I saved from the 
first hefe (I've become a big fan of 'yeast washing' lately), and 
tossed in a couple packets of Coopers dry yeast with it... it toned 
down the yeast flavors, but left enough fruitiness to make it 
unmistakably hefeweisen.

That's just me, but the beer gets raves from all the non-brewers I 
feed it to, and even garners compliments from a non-hefe drinking 
homebrewer of my acquaintance.

- -- 
Teresa - Two Rivers, Alaska [2849, 325] Appt. Rennerian
visit http://rant.mivox.com/ - mostly stuff and nonsense
"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices
have very few virtues."  -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:07:54 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Issue Number 5

David Perez ruins my day with issue #5:

Substance Dependence:

(5) a great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the
substance (e.g., visiting multiple doctors or driving long distances),
use the substance (e.g., chain-smoking), or recover from its effects

Damn.  Does that mean I have to give up all-grain, and go back to extract 
brewing??

;^)

Mike Sharp
Kent, WA



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:30:54 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beer Poll(s)

Mike Eyre asked...
Off the top of your head,
what were the ABV %'s of your, say.. last three (3) homebrewed beers?

Irish Red ale from 1.044 to 1.011, or approx. 4.28 % ABV
Hefeweizen from 1.049 to 1.012, or approx. 4.81 % ABV
Czech Pils from 1.048 to 1.009, or approx. 5.08 %

Prior to that was a draught bitter at 1.033 to 1.010 (2.98 % ABV)
and a tropical stout 1.054 to 1.012 (5.47%)

Have to say most of mine are lower gravity rather than higher, but in the 
mid 1.040's to get a good body and flavor.  I got off the high-test brew 
when I realized that the taste I didn't like in my brew was the esters from 
pushing it up to 7%+, and that the high-test limited me to only a pint 
before I was noticing the effects.

My daily consumption, BTW, is 1-2 pints.  Normally just one.


Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at (1918 miles, 298 degrees) Rennerian
Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada.



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:38:10 -0700
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: Lemongrass Wheat


Steve Jones asks about making a Lemongrass Wheat.  Sounds like a great idea. 
  I have used lemongrass with other herbs (green tea, lemon verbena and 
mint) to make a "tea" before, and you can just pour boiling water over it 
and steep.  If it's fresh, mincing it first helps.  No tannins or off 
flavours to worry about.  You can probably just add the tea to your wort.

The other one that might be good in a wheat is lemon verbena.  Very subtle, 
even in a tea.  Left mine out in the cold over the winter and it died, 
though.


Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at (1918 miles, 298 degrees) Rennerian
Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada.



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:15:13 -0500
From: "Jeff Swearengin" <beertracker at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Lemongrass 


Steve,

    Was it the Outer Banks Brewing Lemongrass Wheat that you had? I've
experimented with lemongrass on a couple of occasions & fresh is better than
dried.  I recently made a Lemongrass Wheatwine using 1.27oz. (36g) of fresh
lemongrass in the secondary for a 5 gallon batch.  I have a friend that's a
chef  at  a local Chinese/Asian Kitchen & he suggested that I use only fresh
lemongrass for better aroma.  The kitchen makes a lemongrass tea that I really
enjoy & they use ONLY fresh lemongrass tips (the top 4" or so) in it.

    After chopping the lemongrass into small pieces, I made a "lemongrass tea"
& added it along with my dry hops to the secondary.  The wheatwine ended up
being very citrusy & received good marks (41 points) in the 1st Round of the
2003 AHA NHC.  My wheatwine didn't have any luck up in Chicago, but the BIG
BEER fans here in my neck of the woods have enjoyed it. Everyone that I've
talked to so far thoroughly enjoyed this year's conference.  Regrettably, I
couldn't be there.  However, I do remember meeting you in Texas last year at
the conference & hopefully I'll see you again in Las Vegas.  In my opinion,
the wheat & lemongrass makes for an interesting combination.  I hope SWMBO
enjoys!

CHEERS! Jeff

"Life is too short, so exercise less & drink more!" --- Michael Jackson, The
Beer Hunter

Jeff Swearengin, FOAM Ex-Officio Officer, BJCP Judge, AHA
'Beer-Evange-ALE-ist'
Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers (FOAM), Est. 1984, Tulsa, OK
beertracker at alemakers.com
www.alemakers.com

>From Homebrew Digest #4278 (June 23, 2003)

  Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:53:45 -0400
  From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
  Subject: Lemongrass

  Let's get back to the subject of brewing.

  I had a beer last year at a brew festival called a
  Lemongrass wheat. I don't remember who the brewery was, but
  the guy serving said they really used Lemongrass, and not
  some spice or extract or something. SWMBO has asked me to
  try to brew it, and I'm planning to do so this week.

  However, I got to wondering how to use the lemongrass, and
  how much. She picked some up at the natural food store
  (dried), and I'm thinking there are a few different ways it
  could be used.
  1. 'dry-grassed' in the secondary (how to ensure
  sanitization?)
  2. Steep it in 180F water for 15 minutes, then add the water
  to the secondary.
  3. Add it to the end of the boil.

  Has anybody used it before? Any suggestions?

  Steve
  I've been at [207.8, 265.3] AR until this morning - now back
  at [421.8, 168.5]

  PS - Those of you who missed the conference really missed
  out on the best homebrew event of all time. Those Chicago
  folks really raised the bar for upcoming conferences.

  BTW, each conference location is announced at the prior
  conference, and this year it was announced that next years
  conference will be in Las Vegas.

  I've been at [207.8, 265.3] AR until this morning - now back
  at [421.8, 168.5]



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:46:58 +0200
From: "Lee and Ant Hayes" <anleo at worldonline.co.za>
Subject: Brewing with Kids

I have read the comments made about kids killing a homebrew hobby with
interest.
My wife gave birth to twins on 14 April, and I have noticed the sudden lack
of time.

However, I managed to brew on Saturday without too much adjustment and I am
now
 confident that I can keep up brewing at least once a month.

The main trick was to coincide my brew schedule with their eat and sleep
schedule.
It pushed my brew day out to eight hours, and I cut a few corners - but I
got to brew.

The main sacrifice was to go from a multi-step mash to a 120 minute single
infusion mash, followed by a mash out.
Maintaining temperature was not possible as I was doing baby stuff at that
time.
I also went for one hop addition, for similar reasons.

Otherwise, things went pretty much as before. I have discovered that I
wasted a lot of time before.

So now I am going through all of my recipes to see how I can adjust them to
fit those parameters,
and it is not turning out to be as difficult as I thought.

So I challenge the guys who gave up brewing because of kids to have a
rethink.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:13:18 -0700
From: David Wilbur <dave at infolure.com>
Subject: Chili Cascade Beano Ale

I've read a lot of complaints about "proper" beer ingredients here 
recently.  Check this out:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/looflirpa/beer.shtml

 -Dave



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:30:55 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Fridge Drilling Horror Stories

Maybe I just got lucky drilling my fridge, and did not hit anything.  
However, I got a number of horror stories via email from people drilling 
their own fridges as a result of my post, including the top of the fridge 
where I was planning on putting a draft tower.  All I can say is be careful 
and drill at your own risk.

Dave
Tucson, AZ



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:02:08 -0500
From: bruce.dir at TAP.com
Subject: Herms wiring

HBD,

I am beginning to wire my HERMS system and wanted some feedback from
members.   I have decided to run the system by only brining in 125v into my
project box (12x12 NEMA metal enclosure).  I wanted to easily take the
system to brew-in's and Big brew without requiring the host to supply 240v
service.  As a result I will use 2 x 5500 watt 240v  heating elements which
I realize will only run at about a third of full power.

Question:
1.  Can I connect these two elements into one plug (in to box).  I have one
PID that will control the HLT via a 25 Omega SS relay which inturn powers
the heater recepticles on the box.
2.  If not and I create two separate plugs, one for each element, can I run
two 125v recepticles on the box to one SS relay?   or will I need to get
another relay so that each heater is controlled by its own relay with
signal from one PID.


thanks




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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:27:46 -0500
From: "Jerry Sadowski" <jsadow1 at msn.com>
Subject: Porcelain repair and Lemongrass

I've used the Loctite/Duro Porcelain Repair product that Bill Tobler 
mentions.  It comes in a 0.5 oz. tube and works well.  I repaired some
dents in enameled pots that were showing signs of rust.  I used a Dremel 
with a wire brush attachment to remove the rust, first.  Its been 4-5 
years since using it and it seems to be holding up although I don't use
the enameled pots as much, now that I have SS.

I talked to Fred Sheer at the NHC last weekend and he mentioned using 
Lemongrass in a Weizen and said it was great.  I think he recommended 
dryhopping a handful of fresh in 5 gal. for 3 days.  Maybe Fred is 
listening and can verify this.

Jerry Sadowski
Crete, IL


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:47:07 -0500
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com>
Subject: Rock Bottom discount card

A bunch of us on one of the "unofficial pub crawl" groups tried to use our
Rock Bottom card and it was refused.  The server said that they couldn't 
get discounts because of a Chicago law that forbid it.  Did this happen
to everyone else that tried to use the card?

Philip
[612 251.4 AR] Overland Park, KS


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:52:47 -0500
From: "Greg R" <gmrbrewer at hotmail.com>
Subject: Altbier

I recently tried some Frankenheim Alt, which I enjoyed immensly.  It was 
hugely malty with balancing bitterness but no hop flavor or aroma, something 
like an Ofest with lots more bitterness, yet with a very crisp finish.  The 
BJCP style guidlines state a relatively high finishing gravity 
(1.012-1.019), but I tested the Frankenheim and it was 1.007.  Is 
Frankenheim an exception to the rule, or are the guidelines in need of 
revision?  Is Frankenheim a good example of the altbier style otherwise?  It 
is quite different and much better than the domestic altbiers I have tried, 
generally unremarkable variations of brown ales (a notable exception being 
the altbier from Fordham Brewery in Baltimore, available only there AFAIK).

I have never been to Dusseldorf, but was hoping someone who has can compare 
Frankenheim to other genuine Dusseldorf altbiers, e.g. Zum Uerige.  I have 
read here that Zum Uerige's brewer claims they do not use any munich malt, 
but if it is anything like Frankenheim, I can see why so many clone recipes 
include munich.  I have brewed several alt recipes, usually including lots 
of munich malt, with up to two decoctions, but none have turned out as malty 
and crisp as the Frankenheim.  Any recipe and brewing suggestions from 
someone who has brewed a credible clone?

Cheers!

Greg in Chicago



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Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 19:31:26 -0500
From: Donald and Melissa Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net>
Subject: Greed?/Correction

I wrote:

 The goods that made it into the city were sold at
pre-hurricane prices, but since anyone could purchase these
goods, those who needed them the most (and would pay much
more than pre-hurricane prices, such as grocery stores, gas
stations, etc.) could not obtain these since others who did
not need them could obtain them and deplete the supply. 
- ------------  ------------  -------------  ------------

I wrote that "others who did NOT need these goods" bought
them. 

What I meant to write was that "those who did not need them
as badly as others who would pay a higher price" bought
them. However, it's interesting to note that many people
bought many different goods in the city under that temporary
price ceiling and transported them outside the city to sell
at market (much higher) prices where the law did not apply.

When that happened, the goods moved to where the need was
greater anyway, just as it would have if there were no price
ceiling. 

Was greed involved in this case? Certainly. But that greed
in a free market economy (with no price ceiling imposed in
the city) also tended to serve the best interests of society
when those who needed these goods the most paid the higher
market price.

This, of course, is an extreme example, and it does not
account for some situations. A poor family who needed a
generator to run medical equipment for their aged parent
would need it as much or more than someone who would pay
three times the normal price. But, realistically, there
would be less expensive alternatives that, though
inconvenient (like traveling to another area), would serve
the interests of the poor family.

Donald Hellen



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Mahoney <pmmaho at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brew Tree

Brewers:
   Yesterday I came across the following website,
advertising a brewing system at a very affordable
price.  (I am not affiliated with these people, etc.)
http://www.brewtree.com/
   Has anyone on HBD purchased such a system?  If so,
could you give us a review of it? 
   I know of several people who have acquired a
"brewing sculpture" from More Beer, and they are very
happy with these systems. 
   Earlier discussions on the HBD about the future of
homebrewing raised the point that a VW-type system
(cheap, reliable, easy to use) was necessary for this
hobby to expand.  The makers of the Brew Tree system
argue for a simple, single infusion approach to
brewing, and are negative in their comments about RIMS
and HERMS systems.  I understand the points raised,
and do not wish to trigger this kind of debate. 
Rather I wonder if 1) a 15 gallon system, 2) single
infusion, 3) based on gravity, 4) in the $800-$1200
price range, 5)with a small footprint, 6) designed for
outdoor use (propane burners) may satisfy this VW-type
standard?

Paul M. Mahoney
Star City Brewers Guild
Roanoke, Va.

(credit to -S for the sig line)

=====
'Caesar, [...]  fearing the fickle disposition of the Gauls,
who are easily prompted to take up resolutions,
and much addicted to change, considered
that nothing was to be entrusted to them;'

 -  De bello gallico, book 4 script 5,  Julius Caesar, 55 BC



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:34:01 +0800
From: "Edward D" <edwardd at dodo.com.au>
Subject: Substance Dependence

David Perez gave definitions for Substance Dependence in hi post Is Bill W.
an Alcoholic.



I cheeked myself against it considering especially 3 events at witch I drank
excessive amounts of alcohol over 2 months.



Point 1 if memory serves I stoped du to feeling ill on all 3 occasions and
drank significantly more at the third.



Point 2. I suffered a major hang over on all 3 occasions.



Point 3 I defiantly drank more than is recommended on all 3 occasions



Point 4 not guilty



Point 5 not guilty



Point 6 after one event I failed to wake up in time for a social gathering
on time and after another I went to tafe (tertiary education) but could pay
no attention for the first half of the day.



Point 7 I engaged in all 3 binges knowing they were not good for me although
I had no lasting problems that can be directly linked to drinking



I had 5 points but I don't think I was or am an alcoholic.



In 2 months I had 3 binges and no other alcohol or indeed for several months
before or after did I have more than 3 stubbies (375ml) a week.



I don't doubt that I did myself harm doing that however I tell you this
becos it shows the problem using a point by point diagnosis system. Some
will be falsely found positive and some presumably falsely negative.



Edward



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:44:03 -0500
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley at keynet.net>
Subject: Re:  Alcoholism

Although this thread has gotten a little heated, it's really
not all that bad a topic to discuss on this forum.  Alcoholism
respects no one, whether brewer or nonbrewer.  Having
an informed background can be helpful.

A quick note of biographical interest: In my working abode I
do emergency room psychiatric intake, including substance
abuse assessment, and provide staff support on the psychiatric
unit of our hospital.  I am also well acquainted with substance
abuse issues on a personal level, however, that's all I'll say
here on this forum.  Whether friend of family, it's their story
to tell, not mine.

A little more on Dave Perez's post -- the section he listed is
from the DSM-IV(TR), an acronym for The Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.  It's a publication
of the American Psychiatric Society, giving a categorical
diagnostic listing of clinical diagnoses.  Although the DSM
is intended to standarize psychiatric diagnosis and treatment,
it takes a good clinical background to understand and make
use of it.

The DSM also makes distinctions between those who are
physiologically dependent on a substance, and those who
abuse it.  The categorical listings are best used when seen
as giving a "snapshot" view into a common pattern of
behaviors and, in the case of dependence, physiological
responses to dependency.  I'm listing both sections,
dependency, as it appeared in Dave's post, and abuse:


Criteria for Substance Dependence (p. 197):

A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically
significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more)
of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:

  (1) tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
      (a) a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve
           intoxication or desired effect
      (b) markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount
           of the substance

  (2) Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
      (a) the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance (refer to
           Criteria A and B of the criteria sets for Withdrawal from the
           specific substances)
     (b) the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or
          avoid withdrawal symptoms

  (3) the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer
       period than was intended

  (4) there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or
       control substance use

  (5) a great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the
       substance (e.g., visiting multiple doctors or driving long
      distances), use the substance (e.g., chain-smoking), or recover
      from its effects

  (6) important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given
       up or reduced because of substance use

  (7) the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a
       persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is
       likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g.,
      current cocaine use despite recognition of cocaine-induced depression,
      or continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made
     worse by alcohol consumption)

Criteria for Substance Abuse (p. 199):

  A. A maladaptive pattern of substance use leading to clinically
      significant impairment or distress, as manifested by one
      (or more) of the following, occuring within a 12 month period:

     (1) Recurrent substance abuse resulting in failure to fulfill major
          work role obligations at work, school, or home (e.g., repeated
          absences, suspensions, or expulsions from school; neglect
         of children or household.

     (2) Recurrent substance use in situations in which it is physically
          hazardous (e.g., driving an automobile or operating a machine
         when impaired by substance use).

     (3) Recurrent substance-related legal problems (e.g., arrests for
          substance-related disorderly conduct).

     (4) Continued substance use despite having persistent or recurrent
          social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the
         effects of the substance (e.g., arguments with spouse about
         consequences of intoxication, physical fights).

  B. The symptoms have never met the criteria for Substance Dependence
       for this class of substance.

When we talk about the disease process of alcoholism, we're speaking from
the general category of alcohol dependency.  At this point the amount of
alcohol abuse is severe enough to cause physical changes that can actually
contribute to the addicion.  Certainly, personal responsibility is not ruled
out, after all, if addiction was purely a medical condition, there would be
no point to establishing rehabilitation centers.  Spence, in his original
post on this thread, was careful not to leave out personal responsibility,
in fact, in his suggesting that people who are having problems with alcohol
need to find help, he made that the center of his post.

This is probably much too brief -- the actual picture of substance abuse/
dependency is extremely broad.  For instance, people with psychiatric
diagnoses of Bipolar disorder, or ADHD, are much more vulnerable to
addiction than the average person.


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Dan McFeeley







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