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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  fat tax moving to beer ("Edward D")
  Re: Smoking, enough already ("-S")
  dunkelweizen (Jan-Willem)
  last three batches ("Haborak, Kevin")
  Masons, Elks and things that go bubble in the night.... ("Houseman, David L")
  loof lirpa ("Dave Burley")
  Yeast washing.. ("Eyre")
  Hmm.. how about some numbers? ("Eyre")
  RE: NHC report (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: YEAST FOR BARLEY WINE (NO Spam)
  excessive right wing rants (Robin Griller)
  Re: Smoking, enough already (NO Spam)
  Re: Mash temp too high ("Kevin Morgan")
  Re: Malting buckwheat (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Freedom to brew. (Jeff Renner)
  Yeast for Barley Wine ("Lee and Ant Hayes")
  Upcoming Beer-Cheese Pairing - to benefit our 6% legislation!! ("Mark Nelson")
  Barrel aging beer - a data point ("zemo")
  Commander SAAZ Interplanetary Homebrew Blastoff 2003!! ("Glenn Exline")
  Guide question from a lurker. ("redbeard47.ny")


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:52:55 +0800
From: "Edward D" <edwardd at dodo.com.au>
Subject: fat tax moving to beer

NO Spam shows us a proposed law for a tax on junk food video games and TV
advertising to pay for obesity prevention programs. Personally I don't think
it will get anywhere and if it was to be proposed in my aria I would email
the relevant bodies to tell them it is stupid but NO Spam stated that he
believes alcohol would follow in the same way.



Personally I would encourage a larger portion of the revenue generated to
the government from alcohol sales be directed into alcoholism prevention and
treatment. But then I also want to se a restructuring of alcohol taxes to be
a flat $x.xx per standard drink rather than different amounts for beer,
wine, fortified wine, spirits and liqueur. But that would be a
simplification of the tax system and that hasn't happened without the
destruction of the enforcing body ever (as far as I know). And I don't
expect ether to actually happen now.



Edward



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:42:33 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject:  Re: Smoking, enough already

 The smoking thing devolved into a discussion of the merits of smoking, when
the point was that there are good solutions that don't involve coercive
taxes or telling people how to live.

Michael Hartsock.says ...
>By the by... The homeland security act[HSA] did more
>to devastate personal liberty than the Clinton Admin
>could shake a fist at.

You're splitting hairs Michael.  It's a bit like saying "your skunk smells
worse than mine" in deciding whether Clinton or Bush2 has had the worst
record of preserving individual rights.

W/ Clinton we have the FDA Kessler appointment - an open attempt to ban
nicotine.  Then the successful tax & sue policy which is a permanent rip in
the fabric of our gov't.  The dismal law Clinton signed after the Atlanta
Olympic bombing permitting wiretaps w/o warrant.  Clinton was responsible
for  (a supposed) 100,000 more "police on the street" via some partial
matching funds.   Just exactly who wants this police state ?   Clinton
polluted and diluted the notion of rights by calling everything under the
sun a "bill of rights"; "Taxpayers bill of rights", "patients bill of
rights".   The  PBoR isn't related to rights at all, it's about transferring
medical costs.

I can't say whether Bush2's  HSA, the arrests, and Guantanamo detentions are
better or worse.  Both of these clowns stink.

 -S




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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:27:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jan-Willem <jwvgr at yahoo.com>
Subject: dunkelweizen

Michael Hartsock asked for advice on
malt/yeast/mashing for brewing a dunkelweizen.
Michael, I don't pretend to know everything about
that, but I would go for a munich or dark vienna malt,
instead of the pilsner. A malt bill of 40% dark vienna
and 60% wheat malt gave me great results, and I
understood that these malts are quite normal in these
beers. I wouldn't go for roasted malts to get the
color. 

As far as the yeast goes, most people I know go for
wyeast weihenstephan. That one should give you plenty
of bananas. In fact, I dislike it for that reason, and
normally use recultured Schneider yeast, which I find
more subtle. If you use Weihenstephan, I wouldn't go
for temps higher than 20C. With the recultured
Schneider (but I don't think you can get that on your
side of the ocean) I'd go a little higher, say 22C.

For the mashing, I had fine results with a 20' at 50C,
90' at 65C schedule, with 2.5 l water per kg grain.
However, I prefer a single decoction schedule
following the same temps.

Just my experiences, I'm sure people will have
different ideas. Good luck,

Jan Willem
Wageningen
the Netherlands   



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:20:32 -0700
From: "Haborak, Kevin" <KHaborak at golder.com>
Subject: last three batches

I think I'll do my last four since one was experimental and I usually don't
brew anything close to it.  I was trying out the super high gravity yeast to
see if it just tasted like someone droped a shot of vodka in my beer.  Give
me a year and I'll let you know.

a CAP ~4.5%
a Koelschy ~4.0%
an IPA ~7.0%
Barley Wine ~ 22%

 -Kevin.






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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:44:47 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Masons, Elks and things that go bubble in the night....

Dan Listermann said:
"Speaking of age, a concern cropped up in my head about the ratio of gray
heads to non gray.  There were not enough young people there.  I have a fear
of becoming like the Masons, Elks, Eagles, etc. if we are not careful."

No, Dead Heads...or rather Dead Freds....be afraid, very afraid.

Dave 






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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:11:53 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: loof lirpa

Brewsters:

Dave Wilbur's article on Glow Beer had as part of the address the phrase
"looflirpa".

Reminds me of the time as a grad school teaching assistant of Chemistry I gave
a quick discussion to my Freshman Chemistry class on the subject of optical
rotation. I included the "history" of this Italian from Venice , Lufino ( aka
"Loof) Lirpa who discovered optical rotation by looking at Venetian blinds
through the crystals at the bottom of his wine glass.

I then gave a merciless pop quiz on optical rotation.  To discover what day I
gave this lecture and pop quiz, answer the last question on the quiz.  "What
is Loof Lirpa spelled backwards?"

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:30:07 -0400
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Yeast washing..

So, I understnad the who yeast washing bit.. but from reading a few sites,
you can keep these guys in the fridge for only about  month.. now since I'm
the ony beer drinker inthe house, I only brew about every month and a half.
And that was at 5 gallon batches.. since I've stepped up to 10 gal now, I
have a feeling I won't be brewing as often as that. Is there a way to keep
'em alive for longer, by.. rejuvenating them somehow, or is that not
reccomended?

Mike

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:12:00 -0400
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Hmm.. how about some numbers?

>Mike Eyre asked...
>Off the top of your head,
>what were the ABV %'s of your, say.. last three (3) homebrewed beers?

Barleywine         1.090 OG  still in primary
English Style IPA  1.060 OG  secondary
Blonde Ale         1.046 OG  bottles and tasting good.

 -!-----

That doesn't really answer my question, friend. Do you have some % numbers
to give me, so I can add you to the list here?

Mike

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:39:02 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: NHC report

You know, it's great hearing about all this beer related stuff that went on
at the NHC, but I'm sure what everyone in here is dying to find out about is
the headline event: The Great NHC Smackdown featuring Mark Ohrstrom and...
Gosh, I can't even remember the surly little $%^&'s name. 

Ping Mark!

Cheers
Brian (coordinates lost due to hard drive failure, but still in Winnipeg)


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:53:18 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: YEAST FOR BARLEY WINE


I currently have a barleywine in primary with
Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley.

The trick with any high gravity beer is to pitch
sufficient yeast.  I had previously brewed an
English Style IPA using the 1275, then I just
racked the Barleywine directly on top of the
yeast cake from that, after transferring the
IPA to secondary.  The styles are even similar
enough that any left over hops, etc, would not
be a problem.

I've done this before with this yeast.  I like it.
My BW was only 1.090.  Still it was going like gang
busters within about an hour after racking.

I've found 1275 to be pretty neutral as far as
English yeasts go.  In most of my beers, it seems
to be on par with 1056, very clean.  I've used
1275 for Mild Ale, English Pale Ale, Bitter,
IPA, and Barleywine.  It's one of my favorite
strains.

Bill



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:54:56 -0400
From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: excessive right wing rants

Hi all,

Is anybody else getting as tired as I am of the seemingly endless long
winded free market, neocon crud arriving in the digest day after day
recently? Writing from a land of socialized medicine some of it is *very*
funny, I have to admit, but enough already....can't believe I'm saying it,
but enough with the narrow minded political drivel, let's get back to
beer.

Robin



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:09:01 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Smoking, enough already


One final thing to add to -S's comments on
Clinton:

Bill Clinton was also responsible for dramatically
expanding a program that is taking jobs out of this
country by the millions annually, and brining in
millions of workers from overseas annually to take
American jobs.

Those of us who are in computers, communications, or
high tech fields should be real familiar with the
H1B and L1 visa programs, which Clinton built up.

And his wife also recently had a big part in it too,
by bringing in a large company known as TATA consulting
and setting them up with a large corporate center in
Buffalo, NY.  TATA is the #1 outsourcer of American
jobs to India, and in the top ten among importers
of foreign workers.  They pay people in India $400
per month to do jobs that Americans here get a whole
lot more to do.

America is now losing over 70,000 high tech jobs
per MONTH to companies like TATA, with help from
organizations like the ITAA (who contributed
MILLIONS to the Clintons) and NAASCOM, who represent
over 700 India based companies.  I left the computer
field 3 years ago, and I blame a large part of this
problem on the Clintons - then AND now.

Thanks, Bill and Hillary.

 



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:41:42 -0400
From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Mash temp too high

Thomas said:
>Has anyone ever mashed too high, say in the mid 70's, by accident?
>Did the wort only partially attenuate or not ferment at all?
>What was the outcome for you?

Regards,
Thomas
Adelaide
SOUTH AUSTRALIA 

I do this on occasion, intentionally to give a higher final gravity
and more mouth feel.

Kevin.......Brewing in south jersey (USA)



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:14:11 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Malting buckwheat

"John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> writes from Montreal, Canada

>One of the (somewhat) local micros makes a very good buckwheat amber ale. I
>have 1.5 kilograms of unmalted buckwheat groats. Anyone ever try
>malting these at home before?

You don't need to malt buckwheat if you don't want to.  You can just 
grind it and do a cereal mash or just toss it in the mash, depending 
on the gelatinization temperature of buckwheat starch.  A google 
search may turn that up.

Buckwheat is a natural for toasting in the oven before you use it. 
Check the archives or one of a number of brewing books on roasting 
your own grains.  You could go for amber or even a little darker.

Sounds like fun.

We did have a bad bottle of Rogue Soba ale at the NHC (soba is 
Japanese for buckwheat, I think).  It reeked of diacetyl - nothing to 
do with buckwheat, I'm sure.  We tried another bottle that wasn't as 
bad, but nothing to write home about.  Rather bland, I thought, 
especially for Rogue.  buckwheat was the first listed ingredient, so 
it may have been the predominant grain.

About the NHC - I can't add anything to what was written except to 
second it.  Fantastic!  Make plans now for Vegas in '04!

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:08:23 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Freedom to brew.

Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> asks

>I'm pondering a dunkles Hefe.  What I want is
>something smooth and malty with strong banana fruit
>esters.  What specialty grains are recommended to get
>the dark color without tasting roasted?

Good question.  I've tasted way too many roasty Dunkles, both wheat 
and all barley.

The answer here is Munich malt and dark wheat malt.  I know that 
Durst makes both (including two colors of Munich, 20 and 40 EBC). 
Others may as well.

>What yeast and temperatures are recommeded to get a good flavor
>profile?

I'll leave this part to someone else with more experience but will 
make a comment or two.  I haven't made a hefe in a while and always 
used YCKC yeast (RIP).  Getting the balance between the flavors can 
be tough.  I aimed at upper 60s F.  For clove flavor (which you 
didn't mention), a rest at 112 will develop more precursors.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:09:23 +0200
From: "Lee and Ant Hayes" <anleo at worldonline.co.za>
Subject: Yeast for Barley Wine

There was a question regarding the best yeast for barley wine. A
non-intuitive option is a lager yeast.
Apparently this is what they use for Thomas Hardy. Secondly lager yeast
seems to be closely related to Champagne yeast (-S can you back me here?)
so it can tolerate alcohol better.

I fermented a 1,114 barley wine down to 1,024 using DCL S-23. So far it
tastes great - very little in the way of esters.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:17:17 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Upcoming Beer-Cheese Pairing - to benefit our 6% legislation!!

This is a quick note to let any Georgia-based homebrewers know about an
upcoming beer-and-cheese pairing. Details are below, and I hope to see a
bunch of you there!

Mark

>>>
Georgians for World-Class Beer has made final arrangements for the next
event to benefit our legislative efforts related to the restrictions on
gourmet beer here in Georgia. 

Whole Foods Market, 5 Seasons Brewing, Merchant du Vin, Thunderhead
Distribution and ArtCanyon.com are all coming together to help us
present a world-class beer and cheese tasting.  

On Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 4PM at 5 Seasons Brewing we will match 10
different world-class beers with artisan cheeses to show that beer and
cheese is truly a match made in heaven.

Seating will be limited! Please visit our web site at
www.beerinfo.com/worldclassbeer and follow the links to purchase tickets
on-line. Or call 5 Seasons at 404-255-5911 to make reservations. They
will need your name and credit card number to reserve your space. Be
sure to tell them it's for the beer and cheese tasting. The cost is a
donation of $25.

PS. 5 Seasons Brewing is located in The Prado at 5600 Roswell Road, just
inside I-285.  Be sure to stick around afterward for their regular
Sunday schedule of live jazz, great food, and handcrafted beers.

PPS. For all you true beer geeks, here are the beer/cheese pairings:
 - Celebrator Double Bock (gruyere)
 - Sam Smith's Imperial Stout (brie)
 - 5 Seasons pale ale (aged white cheddar)
 - Dogwood Winter '02 (aged provolone)
 - Dogwood Winter '01 (parmigiano reggiano)
 - Troubador Belgian Golden Ale (smoked gouda)
 - Traquair House Scotch Ale (Banon)
 - Fullers Vintage Ale (English stilton)
 - Chimay Grand Reserve (Chimay beer-washed-rind cheese)
 - 5 Seasons wheat or wit ale (fresh goat cheese)




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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:34:12 -0500
From: "zemo" <zemo at ameritech.net>
Subject: Barrel aging beer - a data point

A note about the NHC Commemorative Beer:

In the early summer of 2002, several now-anonymous brewers
from Brewers Of South Suburbia, Chicago Beer Society and
Urban Knaves of Grain made 60 gals of Russian Imperial Stout
with donated ingredients. 12-5 gal cornies of the RIS were collected
after secondary fermentation to fill the 50 gal bourbon barrel from
Heaven Hill Distillery, Bardstown, KY. [The barrel head is featured
in the background of the label.] The barrel had been purchased in
Dec '01, and had been sitting empty in the brewery of Govnor's
Public House (Lake of the Hills, IL), until it was rinsed with hot water
before it was filled. Since a few brewers made 10 gal batches, the
barrel was filled with portions of each batch, with 10 gals being
reserved in cornies for future mixing. The barrel was filled in August
'02 and sat in the brewery until bottling in May '03. At that time, a
firkin was filled to be served at the NHC banquet and the reserved
10 gals were returned to the barrel; then, 480 bottles were filled.

Early on, it was discovered that, due to lack of proper barrel sanitation
[by me], a lactic infection had soured the beer. After tireless sampling,
the committee decided that it was necessary to doctor the beer to make
it more palatable. A panel of sour men helped to formulate a combination
of CaCO3 (reduce acidity), lactose (sweetening) and vanilla extract (smooth
out oakiness) to improve taste. [For good measure, a 1.5L bottle of Kentucky
bourbon was also added directly to the barrel before firkin-filling or
bottling.]
Doses of each, plus yeast and priming sugar, were added to cornies that
were filled by pump from the barrel. Bottles were filled from the cornies
with
minimum pressure using Phil's Phillers. [It took under 2 hrs for 10 people
forming two bottling lines to fill the bottles.]

In retrospect, I wish I'd spent more time maintaining the barrel:
from proper sanitation (burning a sulfur stick); to keeping it topped
up (I mistakenly thought it was better to keep the cornies filled, rather
than the barrel). The alcohol content is an estimate: OG was most
likely over 1100, FG was 1032. The consensus is that it will age well
and maybe mellow out. If you give the bottle a swirl every now and then,
it may just carbonate. 8^)>

Zemo
Chicago Beer Society
www.chibeer.org



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:15:20 -0400
From: "Glenn Exline" <gexline at cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Commander SAAZ Interplanetary Homebrew Blastoff 2003!!

What is the Commander SAAZ Interplanetary Homebrew Blastoff? It's an A.H.A.
Sanctioned homebrewed beer and mead competition sponsored by the Spacecoast
Associates for the Advancement of Zymurgy (SAAZ). Beers are judged in
accordance with BJCP rules and style guidelines. 

This year two Best of Show prizes will be awarded. One for Beers, and one
for Meads and Ciders. 

Further information on rules and entry guidelines can be found on the SAAZ
website (http://www.saaz.org). 

This year we have a NEW ELECTRONIC VERSION of the entry form. It lets you
fill out and print multiple entry forms, including bottle labels, and
mailing labels on your PC. No more filling in entry forms by hand!!

Please check it out, and good luck!

Webmaster at SAAZ.ORG



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:12:38 -0400
From: "redbeard47.ny" <redbeard47.ny at netzero.net>
Subject: Guide question from a lurker.

Just a quick question, I won a trip with a guide, how much is normal to 
tip? I don't even know what he usually charges. Bob.

Beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore!



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