---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

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Contents:
  REMINDER!!! WOI RADIO BEER SHOW with RAY DANIELS!! ("Rob Moline")
  Re: barley (Robert Marshall)
  Re: ss turkey fryer (Teresa Knezek)
  AHA NHC Reasons to Go (Drew Beechum)
  hefe (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Yeast washing & centrifuging - what to save? (FRASERJ)
  re: a small correction. ("Haborak, Kevin")
  Subject: Phil Leonard & Rock Bottom or other discount cards ("Carrol McCracken")
  re: poll.. what ABV brews you make? (Jonathan Royce)
  NHC Report ("Steve Jones")
  RE: Lemongrass ("Jodie Davis")
  AHA Conference. ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: Brewtree system (hollen)
  RE: Reports on NHC ("Doug Hurst")
  RE: Reports on National Homebrewers Conference? ("Houseman, David L")
  Freedom to brew. (Michael Hartsock)
  MASH TEMP TOO HIGH (Thomas D Hamann)
  YEAST FOR BARLEY WINE (Thomas D Hamann)
  Malting buckwheat ("John Misrahi")
  custom bottle caps ("Tom Lombardo")
  Durst Malt Supplier (Robert Sandefer)
  Re: Brewing with kids (NO Spam)
  "Fat Tax" Proposal (NO Spam)
  Re: Lemongrass ("Rob Dewhirst")
  Brewing & Kids (Michael Tollefson)
  Bramling Cross Hops ("Jodie Davis")
  re: Barley (NO Spam)
  Re: Beer Poll (NO Spam)
  Re: Altbier (NO Spam)
  Just in case someone is keeping score. (Crossno Clan)
  AHA Conference (Jeff & Ellen)
  Re: Scottish Ale (Phil Sides Jr)
  beer analysis (ensmingr)
  Re: Smoking, enough already ("-S")


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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:01:24 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: REMINDER!!! WOI RADIO BEER SHOW with RAY DANIELS!!

		REMINDER!!! WOI RADIO BEER SHOW with RAY DANIELS!!
     June 25th, 10:00 AM CST, www.woi.org then click on the green audio
streams link, then the AM Radio link.
	Regional radio listeners can tune into 640 AM...
Cheers!
Jethro Gump

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Re: barley

The Brewer's Market Guide at Brewing Technique's
website has a very indepth page that talks about the
professional maltsters, as well as the products that
they sell.

Unfortunately, this is not the most newest of website,
but maybe it'll give you the information you're
looking for.

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/bmg/adm.html

Additionally, some maltsters have information online
too

Breiss Malting
http://www.briessmalting.com/bmcindex.htm

Cargil Specialty Malts
http://www.specialtymalts.com/home.html


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:11:18 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: ss turkey fryer

On or thereabout 6/24/03, Michael Hartsock spoke thusly:
>I am going to be very impressed if someone got a 7
>gallon and burner for $30.

I got an 8 gallon ss pot and burner set (with all relevant turkey 
accessories, and a 10qt fish frying pot, thermometer, etc.) for <$40 
at Sam's Club.

Now, it violates my moral objections to both buying from WalMart and 
buying from China, but sometimes a cheap deal just can't be passed 
up. Besides, it was a gift... hehehhee
- -- 
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
                      -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:36:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Drew Beechum <drewbage1847 at yahoo.com>
Subject: AHA NHC Reasons to Go

David,

no challenge taken.. Heck, I asked myself the same question even while I was
in the middle of organizing parts of the LA Conference in 2001. 

What was cool at the 2003 NHC?

The excellent pub crawl arranged by the the CBS boys and the chance to tour
the around the city was good. 

Michael Jackson digressing his way through a lunch. 

Great seminars from Larry Bell featuring his "weird" (and yeah.. really weird)
beers. Chances to meet Fred Eckhart, Ken Schramm, the Digest's own Rob Moline
and Jeff Renner (even if he doesn't wear nearly as silly a hat as Randy
Mosher). 

Yeast experiments with 17 yeasts. 

A club night with 23 clubs and 248 kegs of homebrew being served for 5 hours. 

Big banquets discussing the convergance of beer and food.

700 other beer "nuts" who all love talking beer and drinking it too.

All in all.. I have to say.. it's a good way to spend some days and learn an
amazing lot. (Every full day of the conference has 2 tracks of classes
focusing on different subjects.)

Yeah.. I got sold on the value of conferences like this one. It's just too
much fun and you get to meet a ton of people who burn with the same fire you
find in your belly.

- -- Drew

- --- David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Steve and other attendees, would you mind taking a few minutes to share 
> with the group what you did at the conference and why you liked it? In 
> other words, what made the experience worth the time, expense, and 
> travel? This is not any sort of challenge, it is just a sincere request 
> for information.




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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:56:40 -0400
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: hefe





Theresa ( teresa at mivox.com ):  interesting that you would comment on mixing
yeasts.  I also do so, but mainly liquid.  My original reasons were that I
purchased WAY too much, and I wanted to not make a starter, so I'd use a
few that had similar optimal temperatures, attenuation, etc...and I have
found nice results.  In fact, I just tasted a brown ale that I made using
Ringwood yeast for the first time in 4 years!  I had had a bad experience
due to either temperature of bad yeast handling (I got slurry from a
Homebrew shop that had acquired it from a brew-pub) so when I used the
smack pack I added it to a perviously used yeast cake (English Dry Ale)
and the resultant mix of the footprints of those 2 yeasts tastes very
good...

Happy Brewing!
 ..Darrell
    Plattsburgh,NY 44 41 58 N Latitude
                   73 27 12 W Longitude

 [544.9 miles, 68.9]Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:15:36 -0400
From: FRASERJ at Nationwide.com
Subject: Yeast washing & centrifuging - what to save?

I bought a used centrifuge from www.labx.com for $35 and tried washing some
yeast from an ESB.  I poured the contents into a flask and rinsed with
distilled water several times over to remove as much beer and floating
sediment as possible.  Then I filled four centrifuge vials with the
remaining mixture and placed them in the centrifuge at a reasonably low
speed.  When it was done, there was several layers with different colors
ranging from tan through to creamy white.

My question is, which of these bands will contain the purest yeast mixture?
I am guessing the tan layer is probably some residual particle such as left
over trub pieces etc.  Is the creamy layer the purest yeast in the mix?

John M. Fraser





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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:22:48 -0700
From: "Haborak, Kevin" <KHaborak at golder.com>
Subject: re: a small correction.

I'm going to have to correct this correction.  The ads were in fact not a
spoof, although people may have taken them to be such.  Arianna Huffington
is one of the main people behind the ads, and was taken to task over it due
to the fact that she flies around in a private jet and lives in a 10,000 sq
ft. home.  It seems more than a few people found it to be very hypocrtical
for her to sponsor ads saying that others shouldn't be driving SUVs, when
she chooses to fly by private jet and heat/cool one home for the price of
three.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:55:17 -0500
From: "Carrol McCracken" <carrolmccracken at mchsi.com>
Subject: Subject: Phil Leonard & Rock Bottom or other discount cards

I wanted to reply on the post from Phil Leonard yesterday about not
receiving any discount from the Rock Bottom cards.  I can't answer for Rock
Bottom, but I was with two groups that went to each of the Goose Island
locations and discounts with our AHA cards weren't a problem.  Twenty
percent shaved right off the top of our beer and food purchases.  Of course,
we tipped on the pre-discounted amount.

Carrol McCracken
Nevada, IA




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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 05:33:14 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: re: poll.. what ABV brews you make?

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Mike asked:
"Off the top of your head, what were the ABV %'s of your, say.. last three 
(3) homebrewed beers?"

Mine last three:

"Short Cut Ale" -- Alt clone of Long Trail Ale -- 1.040/1.012/3.7% ABV
"Leif Erikssons Oktoberfest" -- Oktoberfest Ale -- 1.052/1.017/4.6% ABV
"Nine Eight Brown Ale" -- Northern English Brown -- 1.044/1.010/4.5% ABV

Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:50:08 -0400
From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: NHC Report

David Radwin asks those who attended the NHC to expound
upon what they did and why it was worth it. Well, a short
note won't do it justice, so those who aren't interested may
as
well page down now.

Where to start ... I can't possibly mention it all ... and
my apologies for any that I forget to mention.

Judging: two sessions of judging some of the finest
homebrews in the country, with some of the best judges.

Seminars: Fred Scheer on German Lagers; Roger Deschner on
Kolsch; Chris White on Yeast selection; Lisa White on
Guerilla Lab Techniques; Ray Daniels on 17th Century English
brewing; Jeff Renner on Sourdough bread making; Garrett
Oliver on Beer & Food; and Fred Eckhardt on Beer &
Chocolate. Lots of other good ones that I didn't get to
attend.

The Belgian Yeast experiment: Also a seminar, it deserves
being mentioned all by itself. Crispy Frey (of F.O.R.D.)
brewed 85 gallons of 1.070 wort and split it into 17 5
gallon batches. He then pitched 17 different Belgian yeast
strains, noting their origins, characteristics, and final
gravities. Great stuff - the differences were amazing!!

Club night: about 25-30 clubs serving their finest brews,
along with some darn good horsey doovers.

Keynote & Members luncheons: Good discussions about the
direction of the AHA and member benefits. Lots of Goose
Island brew.

Grand banquet: Nice to see the winners getting their medals
while drinking a good mixture of brews from Rogue & Goose
Island. Also some firkins of Real ale, both homebrewed and
from Goose Island.

AHA Liaisons Meeting: For those of you who don't know,
Liaisons are local points of contact for the AHA. They can
give you discounts on AHA memberships, and this meeting was
a good discussion of ways to promote the AHA and to increase
membership.

Real Beer, Real Food: This was the grand finale, with dozens
of vendors serving gourmet foods - peppers, sausages & other
meats, cheeses, pickled everything, desserts, breads, etc. -
paired with selected commercial brews. It was huge - around
700 people attended - including about 30 or so walk-ins just
from hotel guests.

Hospitality Suite: 230+ kegs brought by 30 or so clubs,
taking turns at the serving counter, open around the clock.

But by far the best part was the camaraderie and interaction
with hundreds of people who share my passion for this hobby.
It was great to meet some of the folks behind the names on
this digest, to re-acquaint myself with some that I had met
last year, and to meet some new folks for the first time.
Hours and hours spent drinking (responsibly, of course) and
talking homebrew, getting new ideas, with new tasting
experiences you wouldn't get anywhere else. Where else could
you find hundreds of people drinking beer, with nary a cross
word or nasty incident? Last year was my first conference,
and when I got back I said to my fellow club members that I
would never miss one again as long as I'm physically able.
This year I managed to convince 3 other members (and one
wife) to come along - they all said they had one hell of a
time and would be back again.

3 days, man - kind of like the Woodstock of homebrewing
without the mud!! [I guess I'm showing my age ;^)]

Yeah, it was a bit expensive, but worth every dollar. Next
year is a great opportunity to pair this event with a Vegas
vacation - bring SWMBO along and make a week of it.

Eagerly awaiting Vegas in '04,
Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN [421.8, 168.5] AR
http://hbd.org/franklin






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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:06:58 -0400
From: "Jodie Davis" <JodieDavis at adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: Lemongrass

Here in Georgia lemongrass plants are quite widely available about now.
I was just at a nursery that supplies Home Depots and they had dozens
and dozens of plants. Don't know if they make it to the Depot.

I grew it last year for the first time. Lovely plant. About four feet
high and as wide, nice annual grass.

Jodie Davis



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:44 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: AHA Conference.

I had a great time.  It was good to see Fred Eckhardt, Michael Jackson,
Charlie Papazian and a lot of others again.

The seminars were very diverse.  Oliver Garrett's will live with me for a
long time.  I believe that I liked the older system where a presenter gave
more than one seminar.  While the diversity was nice,  only one seminar,
made customizing for my interests difficult.  One used to be able to weave a
better course when a seminar was given more than once.

At my age, the conference seemed a bit long.  The last night, although a
gas, was hard to enjoy due to shear exhaustion.

Speaking of age, a concern cropped up in my head about the ratio of gray
heads to non gray.  There were not enough young people there.  I have a fear
of becoming like the Masons, Elks, Eagles, etc. if we are not careful.


Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:45:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: hollen at woodsprite.com
Subject: Re: Brewtree system


Most of what he says to detract from RIMS/HERMS systems is BS.  None of
these drawbacks happen with a *properly* designed system.  AND, with the
Brewtree system you cannot do a multistep mash without additions of hot
water or decoction.

Also, he is guilty of the same thing he accuses of sellers of RIMS
systems.  He is saying that they just want to sell you their fancy
equipment.  Most of his detractions on RIMS/HERMS seem to be merely a
sales pitch of his to sell you *his* type of simple system.

Don't get me wrong, this is a beautiful system, well thought out and built
from the look of it, but I don't happen to agree with his philosophy.

When I built my first RIMS system back in 1993, there was no one but SABCO
trying to sell you a fancy RIMS system.   There was not even anyone trying
to sell you parts to build one.  It was very hard to find parts.  So,
salesmanship on the part of someone selling fancy systems does not come
into play.

It has been proven over and over and over that RIMS/HERMS systems produce
excellent beer without trouble.  So does his system, I am sure.

Don't believe the hype.  Decide whether you need the capabilities of a
RIMS/HERMS or can live with single step mashes.  Then pick the method that
suits *your* wishes.  You can buy/make an excellent RIMS/HERMS system that
has none of the problems he describes.  You can buy an excellent single
step system like he sells, either from him, or from others.  All of them
will work well if properly engineered, built and used.

dion

- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen




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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:51:25 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Reports on NHC


David Radwin asked for reports on the recent National Homebrewers
Conference.  Well, here goes:

I live in Chicago, and therefore, felt attending the conference was a
great opportunity.  There are a number of reasons I felt attending the
conference was a benefit.

I found the seminars to be the most valuable feature of the conference.
They solidified the concepts of a lot of topics in my mind.  After Al
Korzonas' water seminar, I finally have a real grasp of the effects of
minerals in brewing water.  Interestingly, there was less than expected
difference between a beer brewed with distilled water and one brewed
with extremely high sulfate water.  Chris White of White Labs gave a
great seminar on Yeast.  He built on George Fix's concept of five major
yeast classifications below Lager and Ale.

I was finally able to taste beer and get immediate feedback of what I
was tasting from a sensory analysis standpoint.  Not being a member of
a local club, I have not had many opportunities to taste beer with a
expert and ask specific questions.  Beyond that, I found the Belgian
Yeast experiment very interesting.  Imagine 12 beers all made from the
same wort but each fermented with a different Belgian yeast.  Very
enlightening.  Dan Listerman also had a yeast experiment where he split
one wort five ways and fermented each with different English Ale yeasts.

Club Night was extremely entertaining.  Imagine 20 or so clubs all
serving their beer (and food).  I've never been to any beer festival
with such a variety of beers.  I have a feeling that homebrewers will
taste any beer.  At a standard beer fest, most attendees will generally
only try certain types of beer, maybe only the ones they're familiar
with.  Not so at a homebrew event.  I'm not the only one who will try
(and brew) anything.

I met many of the luminaries and authors of homebrewing including our
own Jeff Renner. This makes my normal electronic/printed relationships
with these people much more real and personal.  I was able to ask
questions and get immediate responses.

To say the least I'm really glad I attended the conference.  I'd like to
thank CBS, AKG and BOSS for putting together a really great NHC.


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian
[0, 0] True Rennerian at NHC


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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:52:47 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Reports on National Homebrewers Conference?

David Radwin asks " would you mind taking a few minutes to share 
with the group what you did at the conference and why you liked it? In 
other words, what made the experience worth the time, expense, and 
travel? This is not any sort of challenge, it is just a sincere request 
for information."

I'll give you my two cents; others will most likely jump in as well.

 - There were over 200 kegs of homebrew to try.  Some were truly inspiring.
Talked with the brewers to get ideas and pointers.
 - Got to see numerous beer dispensing set-ups so I got some great ideas on
making my own.
 - Got to have a lot of wonderful foods at club night and Real Beer Real Food
night as well as that served by the hotel (they really did a good job for a
hotel).
 - Got to meet and talk about beer with brewers from all over the country.
Great comradery.  Some I've know for years and only see at such occasions;
many new faces, hopefully new friends.
 - Got to drink many local/regional micro/brewpub beers.
 - Got to judge two rounds in the NHC.  Some wonderful beers (and some not so
wonderful).  But still enjoyed the judging and the company.
 - Attended a number of classes and demos that ranged from a beer and cheese
tasting extravaganza, to learning how to make sausage and sourdough bread,
now to make better mead, how beer goes with chocolate, sensory evaluation,
lager beer production, a practical tasting of 17 (yes seventeen) different
Belgian yeasts made with the same wort (that was a great experience), and a
class on hop bitterness.  I missed a number of sessions due to judging,
presenting my own seminar on home cheese making and several other meetings.
One in particular of interest that I missed was Beer Bootcamp.  
 - A continual hospitality suite with beers always on tap and snack foods
galore.
 - Three great evenings:  Club Night, Banquet with awards, and Real Beer Real
Food.

I'm sure I didn't capture every aspect of the conference nor all the
excitement but others can chime in with what they felt was the value to
them.  To me, having 3+ days of beer and brewing related experiences with so
many people who felt the same way was great.  Costs for booking flights
early were minimal and sharing a hotel room makes it practical.   So just
consider it a beer vacation.  BTW, it was announced that the conference next
year will be in Las Vegas.  So come early or stay over and avail yourself of
not only the conference but all that Las Vegas has to offer as well.  Good
place to bring the SO.

Dave Houseman


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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 06:58:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: Freedom to brew.

I'm pondering a dunkles Hefe.  What I want is
something smooth and malty with strong banana fruit
esters.  What specialty grains are recommended to get
the dark color without tasting roasted?  What yeast
and temperatures are recommeded to get a good flavor
profile?

Michael
University of Missouri-Columbia

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase
a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety."

Benjamin Franklin



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:47:54 +0930
From: Thomas D Hamann <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: MASH TEMP TOO HIGH

Has anyone ever mashed too high, say in the mid 70's, by accident?
Did the wort only partially attenuate or not ferment at all?
What was the outcome for you?

Regards,
Thomas
Adelaide
SOUTH AUSTRALIA 



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:48:09 +0930
From: Thomas D Hamann <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: YEAST FOR BARLEY WINE

Evening Brewers,
any suggestions on a preferred yeast (either wyeast or whitelabs) suitable 
for a 1.100 british barley wine.
want to use a british yeast and thought of wyeast 1728 but would like 75% 
attenuation (fg = 1.025) and i don't think it'll go that low.
will be using an attenuative malt, International Malting Company 
Traditional Pale Ale Malt, and 1% Thos Fawcett Roast Barley and aiming for 
50 IBU's.
any positive recommendations out there?

fanx,

THOMAS
SOUTH AUSTRALIA 



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:19:55 -0400
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Malting buckwheat

Hi all,

One of the (somewhat) local micros makes a very good buckwheat amber ale. I
have 1.5 kilograms of unmalted buckwheat groats. Anyone ever try
malting these at home before? I have a pretty good idea how to do it,
but I can use any advice.

John Misrahi
Montreal, Canada




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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:44:56 -0500
From: "Tom Lombardo" <toml at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us>
Subject: custom bottle caps

Greetings,

My nephew just started homebrewing (Uncle Tom has been a good influence on
him!) 
and he recently informed me that he's getting married next summer.  

As wedding favors, the couple wants to give a commemorative bottle of
homebrew to each guest.  
He asked me if there are any places that will do custom bottle caps with
perhaps a picture or 
just the date of the wedding.

Does anyone know if that's a possibility?  If not, I'll probably suggest
making custom labels on his computer.

Thanks,
Tom (in Rockford, IL)




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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:53:45 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Durst Malt Supplier

I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a reputable 
retail supplier (either in the DC metro area or with internet sales) that 
carries both Durst dark wheat malt and Durst dark Munich malt.
Thanks.

As to the two surveys--I drink 1-3 12-fl-oz bottles per night. My last 
three batches have been 6.3, 4.0, and 4.3% abv.

Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:04:23 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Brewing with kids


>I cut a few corners - but I got to brew.
>So I challenge the guys who gave up brewing because
>of kids to have a rethink.

Good for you, Ant!  Glad to hear it!  And I hope more
guys follow your example!

Bill



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:26:54 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: "Fat Tax" Proposal


Here's another current, ridiculous proposal,
where the gov't thinks they have to "save us
from ourselves".  A "fat tax" on junk food,
video games, and TV commercials, to pay for
obesity programs.  I am not posting the
whole article, just the good parts.

ALSO - Note 1) the line that says they have
not ruled out attacking other things, too,
and 2) the connection made to smoking.

As I said, the assault on tobacco is only the
beginning.  Those cases and precedents will
now become the basis for multiple attacks on
other industries.

How far off can an attack on alcohol be?

http://www.wnbc.com/health/2262003/detail.html

'Fat Tax' Proposal Draws Criticism

POSTED: 9:59 p.m. EDT June 10, 2003
UPDATED: 11:41 a.m. EDT June 11, 2003

ALBANY, N.Y. -- A proposal to tax junk food, video
games and television commercials to pay for an obesity
prevention program faces stiff opposition from politicians
and business groups.
 ...
The 1 percent tax hike floated by Assemblyman Felix Ortiz
would apply to junk food, video games and television commercials,
which Ortiz blames for New York's growing obesity problem.
Ortiz, a Brooklyn Democrat, did not rule out proposing tax
increases on other things that he believed contribute to obesity.

Some health experts contend people who regularly consume soft
drinks and fast food and those who constantly watch TV and play
video games instead of exercising are at risk of becoming severely
overweight. 

The tax increase would be on top of existing state and local taxes
and the revenue raised will be earmarked for an obesity prevention
program, which passed the Democrat-led Assembly earlier this year.
Ortiz is drafting the tax legislation and expects to introduce it by
Friday. 

"Just as people now pay attention to smoking, we need to pay attention
to obesity," said Ortiz.




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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:33:20 -0500
From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: Lemongrass


the local brewpubs that make lemongrass beers add them at the whirlpool
stage.  I would add them at the "heat off" stage in homebrewing.



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:35:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Tollefson <mbtoll at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brewing & Kids

I've seen a few posts about brewing after you've had
kids with great interest.  Its all priorities.  If you
don't find time to brew you are basically saying it is
not important enough for you to brew.

I have 2 kids - 7 & 4 and I've never stopped brewing. 
As a matter of fact on brew day my wife will
frequently go shopping and I'll watch the kids. 
There's enough down time during the day to play with
them.

Both my kids play soccer and have other activities. 
We get busy on the weekends but I work around it. 
There have been times I will start a mash, go to and
coach a soccer game then come home and continue
brewing.  There's ways to do it if you want to.

One note about Sweet Homebrew Chicago:  what a great
time!  There was a spectacular turnout.  Club night
was a blast (with 25 homebrew clubs serving!)  The
seminars were interesting and very educational.  Not
often I have beer at 9AM but all in the name of
tasting differences in mineral content in the water. 
It was quite worth it.  My hats off to the organizers
at CBS, UKG and BOSS.  Thanks!

Mike
http://hbd.org/babble



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:08:20 -0400
From: "Jodie Davis" <JodieDavis at adelphia.net>
Subject: Bramling Cross Hops

The March/April Zymurgy has a recipe for a Southern English Brown Ale I
want to try. It calls for Bramling Cross Hops. A check of catalogs and
online sources, including Freshops, came up empty. I found a place
online but haven't heard back. Does anyone know where I can get these
hops?

Thanks in advance,

Jodie Davis
Georgia



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:14:54 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: re: Barley

>I'm looking for a website or some such resourse, to more
>familiarize myself with the different types/brands/varieties/colors
>/countries/etc etc of barley.. but it's sorely lacking on the net,
>from what I can find. Other than a little blub I got off BYO's
>site, I'm a bit at a loss. Anyone have any good info on this stuff??

Hey, I actually did write a question on this very topic to the
BYO Mr. Wizard awhile back, because I wanted the same info and
also could find very little on it.  I wonder if this was the BYO
thing you saw.  I wrote in because I noticed that in alot of
recipes, especially older ones, they would call for things
like "6 pounds Klages Malt".  I guess we don't see that as
much now in recent recipes.

I remember he wrote back a pretty long answer that was almost
3 pages long in the magazine.  The gist of it was that as
homebrewers, we don't need to worry about that.  Most barley
that we buy is blended by the maltsters anyway.  All we care
about or can pick from are things like 2 row vs 6 row, and
possibly country of origin.  Very rarely is a single strain
offered.  And things that we would think are single strains,
like Maris Otter, Chariot, etc are again really blends.

So I guess I really don't need to know about strains and types
of barley, and why do I care anyway, if its something I can't
control?  As homebrewers, we can only buy the barley offered
in the shops, which comes from the suppliers to the industry,
who get it from the maltsters.  Even choosing from 5 or 6
different suppliers, they're all buying mostly from the same
maltsters.  So shops can only offer what the suppliers offer,
who can only offer what the maltsters offer.  And as he said,
those are almost all blends of different barley strains anyway.

So again, why do we care?  Its something we have no control over.
You can read about this great strain of barley you might want to
try, then you're going to antagonize yourself trying to find it,
when its just not available.

I guess the BYO Wizard was correct, and this is something that
we, as homebrewers, are better off not bothering with or worrying
about.

Bill 



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:19:05 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Beer Poll

>Mike Eyre asked...
>Off the top of your head,
>what were the ABV %'s of your, say.. last three (3) homebrewed beers?

Barleywine         1.090 OG  still in primary
English Style IPA  1.060 OG  secondary
Blonde Ale         1.046 OG  bottles and tasting good.

Have a Celebrator clone up next to brew...

Bill



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:09:06 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Altbier

>I recently tried some Frankenheim Alt, which I enjoyed immensly.

>Is Frankenheim a good example of the altbier style otherwise?

I bought a case of Frankenheim within the last 4 months.  I too,
was originally excited to find it, and it was something I was really
looking forward to trying.  I was very disappointed.

I also have not been to Germany, but my understanding of what an
Alt is supposed to be from the BJCP program is not what this
beer is.  For measure, I took a bottle to a club meeting, where
it was sampled a couple other brewers and judges, including one
very, very experienced judge, who also pronounced it a poor
example of the style - with no prodding on my part.

My case was not skunked, or otherwise obviously damaged.  But
I suppose its possible that it wasn't the freshest, since it
had to travel here from Germany.  The biggest knock on it by
all of us seemed to be that it was not nearly hoppy (bitter)
enough to be considered a decent example of a Dusseldorfer Alt.

I thought the beer was very lackluster overall, and yet another
example of "beer for the masses", I guess brewed to be as
inoffensive to as many people as possible.  It was like dark
brown, mass-market beer.  I gave most of my case away.

Bill  



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:39:24 -0500
From: Crossno Clan <crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: Just in case someone is keeping score.

Monday through Friday in the summer time 2 to 4 pints, with 3 the
average.  Saturday and Sunday ... probably 6 or 7.

Beers on tap: Wit 5%, Triple 9%, Lemon ~7%.

  "Life is too short, so exercise less & drink more!" --- Michael
Jackson, The Beer Hunter

Must disagree, exercise more, drink more!  I run on average 20-25 miles
a week this time of year, and another hour of biking.  Bike distance
depends on which bike I'm riding, road or mountain. 6'3", 190 lb..

Yes, I am an alcoholic.  But admitting it means you are over 50% cured!

When I die, I plan on dying happy!
Glyn in Middle TN





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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:57:11 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: AHA Conference

David Radwin in Berkeley CA asked about the AHA conference in Chicago.

I had a lot of fun.  Club night on Thursday night was awesome.  Imagine 
your best, friendliest, homebrew club meeting, then imagine 50 to 100 times 
the participation.  Great beer, people and food wherever you turned.

Judging for the final round of the competition was well-organized and 
seemed to go smoothly.

A couple of the seminars I attended were not exactly what I expected, but 
others were very informative.  I particularly enjoyed the beer and food 
sessions on Saturday.  It started with Lucy Saunders bringing smoked duck 
and polenta and then next up was Garrett Oliver (Brooklyn Brewery), an 
enthusiastic and entertaining speaker, followed by an incredible beer and 
cheese tasting by Giles Schnierle and Annette May, then topped off by Fred 
Eckhardt with beer and chocolate.  Fred's seminar was way too much fun.

There were several yeast seminars, several sensory/judging seminars, more 
cooking seminars, and several styles were discussed (Belgians, Kolsch, 
Bitter, German Lager, Historical English Ales).  It's a shame that 
scheduling didn't permit one to attend every seminar.  Homebrew was 
available constantly in the Hospitality Suite.

In my opinion it was the best ever conference.  I've been to four now. 
 Thanks to the organizers and the Chicago area clubs.  Very well done.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa



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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:50:41 -0400
From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com>
Subject: Re: Scottish Ale

From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
>I am sorry that I no longer have the bag that the peated malt came from so
>I cannot determine its degree of smokiness...I believe that it was
>Weyerman's...

If it was Weyermann it wasn't peated --  it was beechwood smoked (German) malt.

Phil Sides, Jr.
Silver Spring, MD


Need a good laugh today?
Join Altoidman's Humor List - http://www.altoidman.com



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:07:06 -0400
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: beer analysis

Anybody know of a lab where I can get my homebrew analyzed
(alcohol, IBUs, diacetyl, etc)?  I know about Siebel Institute,
<http://www.siebelinstitute.com/services/beer-analysis.html>. Are
there any others that may be cheaper?

TIA for your help.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
http://hbd.org/ensmingr





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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:44:03 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject:  Re: Smoking, enough already

I agree w/ Michael Hartsock.  The smoking thing devolved into a discussion
of the merits of smoking etc, when the point was that there are good
solutions that don't involve coercive taxes or telling people how to live.

>By the by... The homeland security act did more to
>devastate personal liberty than the Clinton Admin
>could shake a fist at.

The HSA is horrible, but I have a hard time agreeing with this assessment
about the degree of vileness.   HSA is of limited time span, but allows the
CIA to spy on Americans and report this to the FBI using methods that the
FBI and police could not.   The internet spying and access to bank records
in HSA is troubling.    Far more troubling is the arrest and lack of rights
afforded to some individuals, citizens and foreign nationals.   The
conditions of their jailing has recently been found defective by the courts,
but someone in gov't  should receive some severely punishment for that one.
Searches and seizures of property that are expressly disallowed by the
Constitution occur every day at the airports - I see it all the time.   It's
not HSA but the Guantanamo prison thing stinks bigtime.   If we believe in
our adversarial system of justice why in *&%*& aren't we processing these
guys with it ?   If not then, let's dump the courts and the Constitution and
become a real banana republic.

OK, under Clinton we have a far more permanent setback in allowing a
majority to tax anything that displeases them into oblivion.  I see fast
food as the next target where do-gooders will be taxing and suing the way
that others wish to live - anyone wanna take bets ?     That alone is
comparable IMO, but it's opinion.  Add to that the dismal law Congress
passed after the Atlanta bombing which permits wiretaps w/o warrant.   Then
Clinton, ridiculous populist baffoon that he is, started calling all sorts
of thing a "bill of rights"; taxpayers bill of rights, patients bill of
rights - blather.   The "patients bill of rights" is still appearing in the
press.    If the PBoR said that patients had rights to control access to
personal information, rights to records, rights to be informed in certain
ways I would have no problem with it.   What Clinton and the current
proponents mean is that individuals have rights to treatment provided and
paid for by other free citizens.   That's not a right - that's a form of
enforced servitude by the caregivers.    Has nothing to do with rights -
it's about redistributing costs.   Why not declare a "automobile bill of
rights" where Detroit is required to give away cars.   Actually California
has attempted a sort of  "electric power bill of rights" and  an "insurance
bill of rights" by attempting to legislate rates below market value.   I
don't think much of the outcome.

IMO GW.Bush and Clinton and both class A stinkers when it comes to defending
the Constitution and individual rights - each they had plenty of help from
Congress.  I refuse to guess which skunk smells worse.

'nuff said - REALLY.  Get out your pens and stamps and write your reps next
time the other guys freedoms are taken away.   One of these times it will be
yours at stake.

 -S




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