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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Identifying toasted wheat malt (Chris.Pittock)
  too much beer... (Grant Family)
  Cider: Wierd Behaviour (Grant Family)
  Equipment question (Devon Miller)
  TSA and Locked Bags (Bev Blackwood II)
  RE: 4th of July (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: Seattle Brewpubs/breweries (Demonick)
  Wyeast Roeselare Update ("John Misrahi")
  madness of the neos (robin)
  Bottle versus batch priming (Fred Johnson)
  RE: question from a new person -equipment (Lou King)
  RE: Seattle Brewpubs / breweries ("Eric Spencer")
  Pressure cookers (Michael)


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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:05:53 +1000
From: Chris.Pittock at dpi.vic.gov.au
Subject: Identifying toasted wheat malt

Hi All,

I have a mystery wheat malt which seems like a good addition to a
dunkelweizen, but I don't have an ID on its specifications...  (I work with
a grains research organisation and had some export quality malt samples
donated my way)

The malt in question is toasted and tastes sort of between biscuit and the
crust of a piece of white toast... (best descriptive language I can muster
on a Friday afternoon!)  I have no experience in taste-testing wheat malts,
although I think the same problem for barley malt would be easier to
reckon...

Two approaches - what would a brewer want darker wheat malt for (and so
reduce the field) &/OR does somebody have good descriptions of this type of
malt?

(BTW  Am off to try the "Belgian Beer Cafe" in Melbourne on Saturday
night...  plus a few on Monday at some inner city brewpubs in Melbourne...
Is it Beer O'Clock yet?!)

I hope you had a great 4th July!

Chris
Horsham, Victoria, Australia
(A *very* long way AR, 32 yrs, ~2 UK pints/day, 4.5%, 5.1% and ~9%,
un-named brewery - since the move...)




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Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:23:36 +1000
From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au>
Subject: too much beer...

Hmmm,

I was gonna say "I'm sure everybody has this problem..." but given your
professed beer intakes, I'm not so sure... Anyway, my question is, firstly, how
do you get through 5 gallons (23L) of beer? I find the brewing process
exceedingly fun, and am disappointed that I can only do it every few 
months... I
already have an (expensive) 5G fermenter, and don't want to buy a smaller one,
so would it be criminal to try a smaller brew (with lots of airspace)? 
Wouldn't the
carbon dioxide push the oxygen out fairly well?

Also on the topic of too much beer, can I propose an adjunct to the survey on
how much beer we drink by asking "Has homebrewing given you a beer gut/belly?
And if not, why not (that is, do you work-out etc...)?"

thanks,
the man with no excessively large tag.



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Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:49:47 +1000
From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au>
Subject: Cider: Wierd Behaviour

G'day

A 1/2 gallon batch of cider (pure juice + DV10 champagne yeast) I made had
been fermenting outside, but in the shade at between 40-60F for about two
weeks - it was nearly dry - when I took it inside (at about 70F). It was in 
sunlight
for a little bit, and I noticed that when it was, large CO2 bubbles would 
violently
erupt out of solution - and even disturb the trub.

Was it the sunlight, the temperature, or the movement? It continued this for
nearly 24 hours and stopped very suddenly (whereupon I bottled it).

The same thing happened with an identical brew without the added yeast (it
used wild yeasts) but for even longer - even after bottling.

thank yo
stu



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Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:01:57 -0400
From: Devon Miller <Devon.Miller2 at verizon.net>
Subject: Equipment question

I've found what looks like a very sweet deal on a 30qt stainless 
steel(SS) pot,
complete with tap and SS 170K btu burner. The price is $109.99. Given that I
have seen 30qt SS pots that sell for more than this, it seems almost too 
good.
Has anyone used this?  Is anyone familiar with the manufacturer?

Here's where I found the good price:
http://www.globalmart.com/page/s/sms30bv.htm

and here's the manufacturer's site:
http://www.masterbuilt.com/store/sms30bv.html

Devon Miller




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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:58:04 -0500
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: TSA and Locked Bags

> Second, I don't leave my bags unlocked.  With modern x-ray facilities,
> they know exactly what you have in your bags.  Never affected me and
> I'm not going to start giving people the opportunity to go through my
> bags if I'm not there.

Next time you're dealing with the new Federal screeners, you may be 
summoned back to the ticket counter then.  Airlines are supposed to 
actively be asking people to remove locks, or if the locks are 
integrated into the latch asking whether the bags are unlocked.  I too, 
have had the "raised eyebrows" when I ran 11 bottles of single malt 
whisky through the X-Ray screener at Heathrow.  Stateside though, I 
have witnessed on not just one, but several occasions people being 
denied boarding or being summoned back to the inspection area due to 
locked baggage.

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com



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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:28:02 -0500 
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: 4th of July

Pat Babcock writes:

Happy 4th of July! (For those of you who have no claim to a holiday on the
Fourth, you can read that as "Have a nice day" :) 

That's OK, Pat, up here we had our celebration a few days earlier. Winnipeg,
like most of Canada, was all abuzz for Canada Day (although if you call it
that around the old-timers, you're just as likely to get a good helping of
cane across your behind, cause for them it will always be Dominion Day). 

Anyway, being a holiday and all, the sidewalks got rolled out a little
earlier than usual so folks could get their celebrations underway early.
Everyone got together in the town park for the usual games and contests.
Ethyl Hogstrom won the pie contest for an unprecedented 10th year in a row.
A lot of us think there's more than just Petunias growing in her greenhouse,
and that some of that ends up in the pies each year, if you catch my drift.

Of course, with that mad cow stuff being rampant up here, we had to forego
the usual 2-pound burgers, but Hal Stumpel slaughtered one of his young
squeelers and we had a nice plate of pork to go with the corn and peach
cobbler.

Around 9:30, Wilbur Grimsby brought over some fireworks from the general
store and set them off. As usual, he set his pants on fire, and the
volunteer fire brigade had to put him out. Everyone just chuckled and shook
their heads. 

After that, not much left to do but head home, watch a bit of CBC, and drift
off in the old recliner. Happy 4th of July down there, folks.

Cheers
Brian, brewing in small town Canada


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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:31:28 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Seattle Brewpubs/breweries

Mike Sharp did a good job listing the notables in Seattle.  The Big Time
has some fine brews.  Hale's also has fine brews, and their brewing area is
open to the public, separated from the work areas with a low rail, so tours
are self-serve.  The staff will happily answer any questions.

Elysian on Pike or Pine east of downtown, and don't forget Pike Place
Brewery.  Mac and Jack's is north of Seattle in Mukilteo.  30 miles east is
Snoqualmie Brewing, and even farther north and east is the Leavenworth
Brewery.

Summer here is only a few weeks long, and we seem to be in the thick of it
 - hurry.

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com




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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:49:44 -0400
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Wyeast Roeselare Update

Eric D. asked about my recipe,

It was originally intended to be an oud bruin....but I altered the recipe at
the last minute just doing what 'sounded' good. I don't think I am
disappointed so far. I think it is more of a sour brown.

I don't have the recipe on hand but the grain bill was mostly english pale
malt and light munich malt. There was around 200 grams of acid malt (Was
going to be 500g at least, but that was alll I had left), 500g of dark
german crystal, 200g of special B, 500g of malted wheat, 500g of flaked
corn... 50 or 100g of american chocolate malt (i forget how much exactly).,
There MAY have been some aromatic...and I think there was some victory
(probably 454g/1 pound). Hops were very simple, I think it was willamette, 1
oz. at 60min. I think I threw in some irish moss tablets near the end.

I racked it from primary (was a plastic 18.9L water bottle) into one 11.4L
carboy and one 1-gallon jug. I am thinking of adding some oak chips...How
much is a good amount to try? Do you steam them first? I was thinking of
fruit...But the only sour cherries I can find at the moment are canned and
expensive. I was thinking of frozen cranberries......

I may fruit just the gallon jug...and leave the rest 'straight'.

My fermentation picked up again after racking and is down to 1.018 or 1.020.

By the way, the O.G. was 1.065.

 -John Misrahi
 -Montreal, Canada




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Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:58:43 -0400
From: robin <robin_g at ica.net>
Subject: madness of the neos

Hi all,

I would just like to ask -S to not bother responding to what I write if
he cannot be decent enough to respond to what I've actually said. I
really would rather that no one end up thinking I believe any of the
silly things he erroniously attributes to me. I most certainly did NOT
describe the desire to retain the right to homebrew as neocon. I did NOT
say anything about off topic posts. I did NOT label worrying about
retaining the right to homebrew off topic (it is the height of silliness
to be panicked about losing the right to brew, as no one is under any
threat there whatsoever, but I'm a great believer in people waxing
lyrical about their fears, however ludicrous).

Mind you, anyone who can misdescribe a discussion about smoking in
public places as 'smoking...away from others', I guess not seeing
employees as people....anyone who thinks that Bush's laying the
foundations (intended or not) for a police state -- detention without
charge, representation or trial; trial by secret military tribunal;
state directed assassinations; etc.-- as somehow being equivalent to
anything that creep Clinton did in terms of rights and freedoms....what
was it i said about neocon crud?

Robin



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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:19:22 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Bottle versus batch priming

For years I have batch primed my beers at the time of bottling, and I 
have always gotten successful carbonation. It normally takes only two 
weeks to carbonate--less if I transferred more yeast from the secondary 
into to bottling bucket. But lately I have been trying to minimize the 
amount of air that gets into my beers during this process, so my last 
three batches were bottled by filling the bottles directly from the 
secondary by siphon and priming each bottle with a fancy automatic 
pipettor/diluter that I picked up on the internet for a song. (This 
piece of equipment is really an overkill for this job, but it works 
well. I'm back in the lab!)

  All three of these bottle-primed batches have taken much longer to 
carbonate--four to six weeks. I strongly suspect that I am simply 
getting less yeast in the bottles when I siphon directly into the 
bottles from the secondary. When I batch primed, I made sure I picked 
up a little yeast from the bottom of the carboy when I transferred to 
the bottling bucket.

Is there a trick to getting a little more yeast into the bottles with 
my new method? I suppose I could prime each bottle with a small 
suspension of yeast after priming with dextrose.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lou King <lou_king at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: question from a new person -equipment

Hey, Greg -

The next thing I would get if I were you would be a
kettle sufficient for your whole batch (say 7
gallons), and an immersion chiller.  The kettle will
run you some money but the chiller is relatively
inexpensive.

I brewed 5 gallon batches in my kitchen with a whole
batch boil for a while, so the big burner wasn't
necessary for me.

BTW, when you post to the HBD, we like to see your
name and where you come from as a signature.

And thanks for stopping by my site.  I'm glad you
enjoyed it.

Lou King
Ijamsville, MD 
http://www.lousbrews.com

=================
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: g flo <gflo77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: question from a new person -equipment

I hope this list will tolerate a question that has
probably been asked in various forms over the years. 
I have a very basic set up right now.  A 3 gallon
brewpot, 2 6.5gallon buckets, a capper and bottling
wand, a few cases of empties, and a tap-a-draft PET
6liter mini keg. 

I don't have that much money to spend on equipment,
but I want to improve my setup/beers.  I live in an
apartment so I can't get a big ol' burner, and I store
everything in my kitchen/ dining room (but I do have a
fair amount of room)  What would you recomend as my
next equipment investment?  Is there anything
essential I am missing?




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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:39:22 -0700
From: "Eric Spencer" <espencer at speakeasy.org>
Subject: RE: Seattle Brewpubs / breweries

I have to second others' suggestions of Pike Brewing Company (went with
them for my wedding), Big Time Brewery and Alehouse, and the Maritime
Pacific's Jolly Roger tap room.  All have great beers.

Another definitely worth checking out is the Elysian Brewing Company.
The head brewer, Dick Cantwell, was a brewer at Pike Brewing, then Head
Brewer at Big Time prior to his extensive work at the Elysian.  I love
their Perseus Porter

If you visit the Pike Brewing Company's brewpub by the Pike Place
Market, and have interest in a little bit of Seattle beer history, seek
out the Market Cellar Winery and homebrew supply shop.  It is a small
shop around the back of the large market that was started by one of the
co-founders of the Pike Brewing Company, John Farias.  You might get
lucky and find him there tending shop.  He's great for a quick
conversation about the history of the Pike Brewing Company which he told
me started in the space that his shop now occupies.

Eric Spencer
Seattle, WA



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Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:49:19 -0500
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Pressure cookers

I did a cereal mash the order day for a plambic, and Jeff Renner's post
on cereal mashes put the idea of a pressure cooker in my head. Well,
that and the fact that all that stirring is a pain in the neck. What is
the minimum size a pressure cooker should be in order to be useful for
brewing?


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