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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: tea + ("-S")
  re: Lagering in a Corny ("Steve Alexander")
  RE: caffeine in beer (g flo)
  question from a new person -equipment (g flo)
  AK's Alt (Thomas D Hamann)
  How Does Water Effect Attenuation? ("Dave")
  Panic not, faithful HBDers... (Pat Babcock)
  Caffeine in beer (David Edge)
  Phaucet adapters for corny kegs ("Dan Listermann")
  brewing age...oh yeah (Marc Sedam)
  reasons for cereal mash (Jeff Renner)
  Zero Length: faucet directly to keg w/o tubing. (John Ferens)
  Very Short Keg Line / CO2 Cartridge dispense (Michael Owings)
  New Brewing Lager book (Michael)
  Brewery name (Mark Kempisty)
  Hogsback / CAP ("Mark & Kristine Kellums")
  Seattle Brewpubs/breweries ("Mike Sharp")
  brewing with tea (g flo)
  Brewery name / airlines and beer (David Harsh)
  Brewery Name ("Menzl's")
  re: adjunct brewing/OT.ness/Alcoholism/atten v temps ("-S")
  SkullSplitter Ale recipe ("mda")
  Re: Roeselare 3763 (Eric)


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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:45:51 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: tea +

Rich Lanam writes,

>Has anyone used regular or green tea in beer?  I'd like to try making a
>brew with caffeine but am not fond of coffee in my beer.  Any
>recommendations on the type of tea and the amount.

I think it's  a poor idea for a flavor combination here - but I could be
wrong.   Do try it and tell us what you find.

The primary flavors in tea are from the sharply bitter caffeine, the
phenolic compounds (some similar to those in malt and other more astringent
one similar to hop phenolics), and also simple organic acids.   Green tea
has some other components like chlorophyll and grassy hexanal compounds no
doubt.

Anyway it seems to me that a major flavor component of tea - the phenolic
compounds, are compounds that brewers actively try to avoid.  You don't want
those.    Tea organic acids will likely be unnoticed behind the vast amount
of fermentation generated organic acids.   Caffeine is another issue.
Most folks don't realize it, but tea would be far more bitter if the
phenolics were removed since the phenolic compounds actually mask the
extreme and sharp bitterness of the caffeine.   The taste of caffeine is
along the lines of quinine - extremely and sharply bitter.   You *may* be
able to replace some hops IBUs with caffeine or quinine but I have some
doubts.    You might need to find a better source of caffeine.

I'd suggest you try some flavor estimation experiments first.  Make some
good strong tea, chill it,  and add a tiny measured amounts to a good beer
and see what you think.

Many tea phenolics would be lost in the break if you added tea before the
boil.  To simulate this for testing you might make a cup of tea, then add a
*lot* of PVPP or Polyclar.  Say a tablespoon per cup, and let it work for
several hours on the cold tea.   This "fined tea" could then be added to a
good beer for flavor estimation purposes.

>[I] am not fond of coffee in my beer.

Same here - but aside from caffeine & diacetyl the major flavor components
of coffee aren't too different from those in roast malt.

 -S




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 01:59:14 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Lagering in a Corny

AlK writes ...

>Fix wrote (probably here in HBD) that some yeasts simply don't like tall
>and skinny fermenters.  If memory serves correctly... no, I just looked
>it up, Wyeast #2124 Bohemian Lager doesn't like tall&skinny fermenters.

Oh no - not that old worm eaten chestnut

Q: How can the individual yeast cells detect  the fermenter geometry ?
A: They can't !   The geometry itself can have no possible direct effect
    on the fermentation.

These sort of comments by Fix and DeClerck are bunk.    DeClerck was
completely off-base in trying to characterize the issue as geometry.   In
LARGE COMMERCIAL SCALE fermenters the geometry can affect the circulation
and pressure and these can impact fermentation.    These are NOT directly
relatable to H:W ratios alone as DeClerck attempted to do and are related to
fermenter SIZE and other geometry factors which DeClerck attempted to
ignore.

As to the  increased pressure on yeast when the fermenter is deep.  The
point were pressure becomes a barely detectable factor in fermentation is
around 72 inches deep or around 0.2 bar bottom pressure.  A 5g corny might
be 18 inches deep while the same beer in a carboy might only reach 14 inches
in depth.    No difference and far from any pressure induced fermentation
effect in either.

As to circulation, with small scale (say <15gal) fermenters the circulation
forces created by CO2 evolution and thermals is far too small to have a
significant  impact on fermentation.   There was a recent ASBC paper on this
topic and it appeared that the PEAK circulation forces in a commercial CCV
fermenter (90bbl as I recall) approached the optimal only during peak
fermentation.   The circulation forces in a small HB fermenter are two
orders of magnitude less and the difference between a carboy and a corny are
essentially zilch.

I tested this hypothesis and tracked fermentation progress by measuring pH -
no practical difference between corny and short wide fermenter performance.
Details in the archives.

At the HB scale, fermenter geometry has no effect on fermentation of
lagering.

Now Al, just what exactly were you saying about Clinitest ?   8-O

 -S




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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:33:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: g flo <gflo77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: caffeine in beer

In response to the comment about using enough coffee
to add a noticeable amount of caffeine to beer...  We
make a coffee stout that involves about .75lbs of
highly caffeinated light roast coffee for a five
gallon batch.  It turns out a bit more bitter than a
normal Irish stout, but it is quite good if you like
coffee.  The coffee does dominate the flavor, but it
still tastes like beer.   Most of our friends drink a
lot of coffee, and a lot of our beer.  As best we can
tell 2 12oz bottles is about a cup of coffee.  Getting
drunk only on this beer does a number on you.  

g flo
http://emptyboxbrewing.blogspot.com



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: g flo <gflo77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: question from a new person -equipment

I hope this list will tolerate a question that has
probably been asked in various forms over the years. 
I have a very basic set up right now.  A 3 gallon
brewpot, 2 6.5gallon buckets, a capper and bottling
wand, a few cases of empties, and a tap-a-draft PET
6liter mini keg. 

I don't have that much money to spend on equipment,
but I want to improve my setup/beers.  I live in an
apartment so I can't get a big ol' burner, and I store
everything in my kitchen/ dining room (but I do have a
fair amount of room)  What would you recomend as my
next equipment investment?  Is there anything
essential I am missing?
Thanks in advance for your advice
gflo
http://emptyboxbrewing.blogspot.com



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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:24:37 +0930
From: Thomas D Hamann <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: AK's Alt

Hi Al,
great to see that you've found a spare 30 seconds!
Which Weyermann Munich would you use, 1 or 2, what mash temp and what 
colour in EBC should i expect?

goodonya,

Thomas
Adelaide Hills
South Australia





At 00:14 1/07/03 -0400, you wrote:
>come up with a favourable clone recipe (although some have
>reported here that Zum Uerige now uses a mix of Pils, Munich,
>Crystal, and a touch of Roasted malt) which is basically 90%
>Munich malt, 10% Aromatic or Weyermann Melanoidinmalt, 50IBUs
>of Spalt, and Wyeast #1338, fermented at around 63F.  Brew this
>and it will give you a feeling for what Duesseldorfer Alt should
>taste like.
>
>Al.
>
>Al Korzonas
>korz at brewinfo.com
>www.brewinfo.com
>



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:02:02 -0700
From: "Dave" <brewingisloving at hotmail.com>
Subject: How Does Water Effect Attenuation?

Hello all,

I've been brewing for about 9 years, off and on, and
have been brewing using the same techniques for most
of the last couple years.  With my last 3 batches, the
only difference from previous batches has been the water.
I switched from filtered water purchased at 
the store, and bottled spring water, to tap water filtered
through a .5 micron carbon filter.  

On these last three batches, my attenuation, using a 
known yeast, has gone from about 75 - 77% to an abysmal 
64 - 66%.  My ingredients have stayed the same, my yeast 
hasn't changed, and I have even been aerating more.  Can
the only inconstant source - the water - be causing
this?

Thanks,

Dave


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:39:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Panic not, faithful HBDers...


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Happy 4th of July! (For those of you who have no claim to a
holiday on the Fourth, you can read that as "Have a nice
day" :) I will very likely be shutting down the entire HBD
network this weekend in an effort to prevent the HBD system
from becoming a statistic is this "hacking contest" announced
for this weekend. Panic not if you find your favorite beery
resource offline for a period this weekend. It is a far better
thing I do to prevent than to repair, and I simply do not have
time available to audit the HBD security in time to ensure the
systems are secure from "web site defacement"...

My apologies for any inconvenience this causes anyone...

- 
-- 
-
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:08:35 +0100
From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Caffeine in beer

Mike counsels Rich to

 >use a certain amount of that "water Joe" stuff,
 >which is just caffinated water, that I think is
 >supposed to be tasteless and debittered.

When I was taught beer tasting the tutor used pure caffeine
to check that everyone could taste bitterness. So debittered
caffeine may not be caffeine.

David Edge
Signalbox Brewery
Derby, UK




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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:28:54 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Phaucet adapters for corny kegs

I developed the faucet adapters years ago.  Fox Equipment duplicated my
product so we no longer make them.  The posters who responded to this
subject didn't use the first person so they may not have much direct
experience with them.  The orifice that the beer passes through is only
1/8" in diameter and it is tapered to smooth the flow.  I initially was
concerned about excessive flow, but it hasn't seemed to be a problem.  I
generally keep it at normal pressure and it is fine.

If you are really concerned about this, during development I used a 18"
length of aquarium tubing pushed down the dip tube to provide back pressure.
It was more than enough, but frankly in the long run it seemed to be
unnecessary.

In conclusion, you don't need to bleed the pressure to near zero and get all
hung out on restoring pressure to avoid losing carbonation to use these
faucet adapters.  They seem to work fine.  I have used them for years.  Last
week I found another unplated prototype!

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:32:04 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: brewing age...oh yeah

Last data point.  I'm 31 and have been brewing for 10 years.  My first 
batch was brewed the day I turned 21 and every year since I've taken the 
day off to brew.  I'm about 6'5" and 230lbs.  I kinda stand out (or up).

As for the NHC, it's easy to see why the relative age of folks 
is...er...older.  Having the money and time to travel is hard enough. 
 But convincing the SO to spend it on a beer-related activity is even 
tougher.  One thing that might help is if the AHA would consider 
rotating the NHC across the country.

Last year was Dallas, this year Chicago, and next year is Vega$.  You 
might get a different crowd if we had it in rotating locations on the 
east coast, then central standard time, then mountain standard, then 
west coast.  You may get more people able to drive and attend.  I know 
that location is chosen primarily by clubs willing to host and cities 
capable of handling the crowds, but maybe preference to location?

Oh, and if Paul could chime in on how clubs could go about making a 
pitch for this, it would be very cool.

 -Marc

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:58:43 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: reasons for cereal mash

A regular HBDer wrote in a private email that he is getting a 
lagering fridge and is going to brew his first CAP this weekend, and 
asked:

>I recall that you have said that flaked maize will work as well as a 
>corn meal mash, but I know you prefer to mash. So are they really 
>about the same and you simply enjoy the mashing or is there a 
>substantial difference in the results that compels you to mash.  I 
>enjoy mashing too, but it seems to be considerably more involved 
>considering the alternative.

Since this seems of general interest, I thought I'd answer here.

I do a cereal mash for several reasons.  First, it's traditional 
(although flakes were also used, see Wahl and Henius 
http://hubris.engin.umich.edu/Wahl/).  I seek to brew a historic beer 
in as historic a fashion as I can unless more modern techniques or 
ingredients are demonstrably better.

Second, it's part of my nature in my hobbies to do as much myself as 
I can.  When I hunted ducks, I used a muzzle loader double barrelled 
shotgun (but didn't carve my own decoys).  I'm not a fly fisherman, 
but if I were, I'd no doubt tie my own flies and maybe even split 
bamboo to make my own rods (like Ken Schramm does). It's part of the 
fun.

But most importantly, and to address the question asked, I think it 
does make a difference in the final product.  A cereal mash is 
essentially a variant of a decoction, and I do believe that there are 
flavor benefits.  One of our local club's former members who no 
longer brews (but who did a stint as a pro in a micro), and who has 
an excellent palate came to a meeting last month for the first time 
in several years.  We all were enjoying my latest CAP and he asked, 
"Was this decocted?"

That confirmed my feeling.  A cereal mash makes for a subtly richer, 
more complex depth of flavor IMO.  It's not a big difference, but 
it's there.

It really isn't that big a deal to do a cereal mash, and besides, 
it's fun, the way cooking a fancy meal is fun.  It takes only a 
little more time than a normal step mash.  As soon as the cereal mash 
is boiling, I mash in the main mash at 146F(63C) and let it rest 
until the cereal mash is done, maybe 30 minutes.  I'd do that rest 
anyway for a Pilsner.  Then the cereal mash boosts the main mash 
much/most of the way to the second rest of 158/160F (70-71C), where I 
rest it for another 30 minutes or so, whatever is convenient, then 
mashout.

Since I recently scored a 30 qt. pressure cooker, I now put the 
cereal mash in its pot in the pressure cooker.  As Spencer Thomas 
posted here some years ago, pressure cooking (which was done 100 
years ago in some breweries, BTW) intensifies decoction flavors. 
This completely avoids scorching (note, the mash is not in the cooker 
directly but in its own 8 qt. pot) and is simpler.  No stirring.  I 
give it more time than is necessary for simply cooking the corn to 
get more decoction flavors.  15-20 minutes at 15 psi, then let it 
cool, which takes another 15 minutes, I guess.

This spring I made two 8 gallon batches of CAP two weeks apart - one 
for my son's homecoming from the war and one for the NHC in Chicago. 
I used slightly different but related hops for FWH but other than 
that they were the same.  They turned out with the same gravities and 
without a triangle taste test (which I didn't do) were virtually 
indistinguishable.  I think I've got brewing it down pat.

I also used -S's suggestion of a Campden tablet in the mash to reduce 
oxidation.  I don't know if it made a difference, but there is 
absolutely no sign of oxidation.  This will be SOP for me, at least 
for this style.

Those of you who had my CAP in Chicago, I hope you had a chance to 
try it in the hospitality suite.  At club night it was way 
over-chilled and out of balance to the hops end.  The kegs were 
already chilled from the reefer truck, then we were pushing the beers 
through cold plates in jockey boxes.  It was in much better balance 
in the hospitality suite.  Of course, I'm my own harshest critic.

There are still a couple of gallons in the homecoming keg left and 
damn, it's good!  What a style!

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:59:35 -0400 
From: John Ferens <john.ferens at ansys.com>
Subject: Zero Length: faucet directly to keg w/o tubing.

Another option is to attach the normal length (4-5') of beer hose to the
pickup tube inside the keg, after sanitizing it very well before hand, of
course.  I've not done this myself but have heard of others who have and it
makes perfect sense to me.  Also, I have a 5lb CO2 cylinder and it is both
very small and light.

John.


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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:10:59 -0500
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: Very Short Keg Line / CO2 Cartridge dispense

On the CO2 Cartridge dispense:

Avoid it for regular use. I have one of these and it's quite handy for
taking a keg to parties, but would be awfully expensive for normal
use. Depending on the size, you'll go through 3-5 cartridges for a
5-gallon cornie. I do recommend them for mobile use, though -- beats
lugging around a regulator and tank.

On 0-length keg line:

You'll get a chorus of responses here telling you not to do this;
however, I and at least 3 or 4 of my fellow club members have been
using very short hose lengths for some time. Credit where due: This
tip originally came from Tom Conklin, former head brewer at Abita
Brewing Co.

Typically we use a very short length of braided vinyl tubing (mebbe an
inch or three), to directly connect a picnic faucet to the liquid out
QD on the keg. 

The trick to making this work is to use very low pressure to dispense.
You'll need to periodically pressurize the keg a bit lest the beer go
flat and bleed off when ready to serve again, but exactly when you do
this is not terribly critical; when the beer seems to start losing
carbonation just repressurize and leave it overnight -- or just do it
when you think about it. 

In practice, this is quite easy to do, and works well if you have a
lot of kegs in a chest freezer. Obviously, you'll want to be using a
tank and regulator. 
====
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:44:54 -0500
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: New Brewing Lager book

Dave Larsen wrote:

>Well, I was over at Amazon the other day and I noticed that New Brewing
>Lager Beer is marked as soon to be released and has a publish date of
>September 2003.  I don't know if that means that there is another update
>to the book or it is simply a reprint of the 1996 book.  Either way,
>if you don't have it, I'd definitely pick it up when it comes out in a
>few months.  I'm definitely going to pick up the newer edition.

I [cough, cough] pre-ordered [cough, cough] it from Amazon.


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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:47:58 -0400
From: Mark Kempisty <mkempistySPAM_ME_NOT at pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Brewery name

I came up with my brewery name while trying to think of a name for a 
beer that I was entering into competition.  I started toward the 
basement steps and there was my cat sitting on the steps.  In a flash of 
inspiration, Three Paw Brewery was born and Three Paw Porter went into 
the competition. 

And if you wondering why my cat gave me the inspiration for Three Paw, 
its because he only had three legs.  His right front leg never developed 
but he got around just fine.  Sadly old age hit him fast last year and 
he passed away.  The new cat has four paw drive and its really strange 
to see him walk around without a having to hop.

- -- Mark
Three Paw Brewery
Richboro, PA



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:56:07 -0500
From: "Mark & Kristine Kellums" <kellums at springnet1.com>
Subject: Hogsback / CAP

I have successfully cultured the yeast from a bottle of Hogsback bitter. I
was wondering if anyone knows whether this is would be the fermentation
yeast or bottling yeast?


I just kegged up a pretty good batch of CAP. Here's the recipe FWIW

All RO water

8 lb 6-row
 .5 lb Homemade carapils
1.5 lbs flaked corn
1 oz. Homegrown Eroica 60 min.
1.5 oz. Mt.Hood whole hops 15 min.
1 oz. Mt.Hood whole hops, steeped
1 tsp. Calcium Chloride in the mash
 .5 tsp. Wyeast nutrients 15 min.
1 tsp. Irish moss 15 min.
Wyeast 2007
Fermented at 55 F

I added a couple of four finger pinches of Mt.Hood in the secondary to pull
out some CO2 so it wouldn't foam when I polyclared but ended up not fining
after all.

Thanks
Mark Kellums
Decatur Il.


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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:25:32 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Seattle Brewpubs/breweries

Timothy suggests a few Seattle brewpubs...

"There's also a Rock Bottom ... in Bellevue, if you want
consistency. "

I actually went in there recently when I missed a bus connection downtown 
Bellevue...I think they've gone downhill.  Bland beer.  The porter was 
so-so, but as I was sitting at the bar, I noticed a pair of beer engines.  
(are two beer engines a "brace"?).  Anyway I asked the bartender how often 
they had cask conditioned, and he replied, "Not so much anymore.  Mostly 
when one of the tanks runs low, they might put the rest in a cask..."

I just smiled and thought of my CAMRA buddies...So now the secret's 
out--Cask conditioned is simply the dregs of the bright beer tank!!  ;^)

No wonder they don't serve much cask conditioned there anymore.

As for brewery tours:

The Maritime Pacific Brewery and Jolly Roger taproom at 1514 NW Leary Way in 
Ballard offers tours.  While you're in the neighborhood, there's Hale's 
Ales, at 4301 Leary Way NW, but I don't know if they do tours.  Big Time 
Brewing at 4133 University Way NE also does tours. Theres a new one in the 
SODO district, that I can't remember the name of.  Met the brewer at a club 
meeting, and loved his beer.  Darn, the alzheimers is killing me...I don't 
remember which one of us has it.

And since you're playing tourist, you gotta take the Underground Tour...

Mike Sharp
Kent, WA



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:47:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: g flo <gflo77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: brewing with tea

more about caffeinated fermented products...
I just read about this company that make a "hard ice
tea" from "whole leaf teas, water, cane sugar &
yeast".  The company is Bison Brewing in Berkeley
http://www.bisonbrew.com/about.html 
It isn't actually a beer, but it is supposed to be
pretty good stuff.  It is 6% alcohol and served over
ice.  I know that isn't quite what you were looking
for, but I thought it was interesting

gflo
http://emptyboxbrewing.blogspot.com



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:31:59 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Brewery name / airlines and beer

Greetings-
	I went to Germany for two weeks and missed a contentious period....   
Just as well since I never have strong opinions about anything.....  ;) 
    Just for the record, only one bad beer - some lame pils made in 
Alsace, but we were there for the day and it was the locally produced 
beer.  I believe my official description was "inoffensive", as it 
didn't really have enough flavor to count as offensive.

My brewery has had the same name for many years "Opus Lost".  Wine 
geeks will understand the reference, I started using it when Bloom 
County was still at is peak back in the 80s.

On Airlines and beer:
	I brought back a fair amount of beer and wine (within customs limits, 
FWIW) on my recent return.  A couple of comments:
> Bev Blackwood wrote:
> ...Be aware that there's a new
> limit of 50 lbs. on your checked bags.  The airlines are starting to
> view baggage as a revenue source, apparently.  Also be sure that you
> leave your bags unlocked if you check them....

For Delta, the limit is 70 lbs in the states or 32 kg boarding in 
Frankfurt, at least for international.  Best bet is check with your 
airline.  Commuter flight weight limits are often less, and carry on 
weights also matter.  They really didn't look very closely in 
Frankfurt, but in Cincinnati, they were quite anal about it.  Just for 
the record, its cheaper with Delta to pay for a third bag than it is to 
pay the overweight fee.  Go figure.

Second, I don't leave my bags unlocked.  With modern x-ray facilities, 
they know exactly what you have in your bags.  Never affected me and 
I'm not going to start giving people the opportunity to go through my 
bags if I'm not there.

Many years ago I carried a full case of Westvleteren in my carry on 
flying from Gatwick.  Going through the security, the guy just raised 
his eyebrows and asked if I had a bit of a drinking problem.  My wife 
and I had two bags checked on her ticket; I went straight to the gate 
and she went and shopped in duty free.  I get to the gate as a single 
male traveling alone with no checked baggage and got to chat with Mr. 
Scotland Yard for 30 minutes.  And that was in 1994!

I've never had anything break, but I also pad very well and make sure 
things are arranged so there won't be any movement within the suitcase. 
  Ok, I also put the padded bottles inside plastic bags, because I know 
there will be a first time!

Glad to be back in the land where "ice water" does not mean room 
temperature water with one ice cube.  And this was during the European 
heat wave of the last month where "it never gets this hot".  (95 F in 
Meersburg)  The hop plants around Tettnang seemed no worse for wear 
though...   The hop plants I saw in northern Alsace near the German 
border looked even more vigorous - any idea what those were?

Dave Harsh							Bloatarian Brewing League
Cincinnati, OH



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:21:21 -0400
From: "Menzl's" <menzl at concentric.net>
Subject: Brewery Name

Great stories!  My brewery name is National Midnight Star Brewery which
comes from the song "Red Lenses" by Rush.
The band has been around for quite a while and all the song titles leave a
lot of room for naming beers.  Now, which beer to name "Didacts and
Narpets"...

William Menzl
Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian
National Midnight Star Brewery



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:36:56 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: adjunct brewing/OT.ness/Alcoholism/atten v temps

Robin Griller notes ...

>hard to brew with kids, I hear!

Not really.   Get the moisture under 5%, use a hammer mill and extend the
protein rest.

Earlier Robin labels the OT(on topic?) issue of retaining ones right to brew
and drink beer  as "neocon".  Others suggested that various political
parties were to blame.  The enjoyment of diverse pastimes like brewing are
rights.  The idea that supporting person liberties is conservative or
supporting civil rights is liberal is rhetorical nonsense.  How is having a
smoke(away from others), a beer, a burger or any other act not damaging to
others  w/o gov't interference or onerous taxation an ideological position ?

Kraft foods understands what is happening.   Not long till alcohol  ...

===
Some of the recent alcoholism posts demonstrate that our ancient view of
alcoholism as a personality defect prevents insight and rational thought.

It's a disease where the carriers are incapable of controlling
consumption(addiction), and the excessive consumption imposes costs to
society.   I'd like to point out that if diabetics were uncontrollably
addicted to carbohydrates that a similar pattern of personal and social
costs and accidents due to blackouts and coma could accrew.   Alcohol (or
carbohydrates) are clearly not the problem - addiction and the resulting
excess is.

When people fail to control their actions  in ways that impose costs on
others we remove their right to make those decisions.   We have systematic
methods of removing rights and decisions from minors because they lack
judgement.  We restrain dangerous psychotics. We remove the right to vote or
carry firearms from felons.   Isn't  it clear that we should prevent
alcoholics from accessing alcohol ?   If you are under 20-something here you
already need to show an ID before purchasing alcohol.   I can't see that
having everyone show an ID to indicate they are non-minors and
non-alcoholics would be a huge additional burden on the system nor a
significant reduction in current rights.

Edward D of Oz  wrote ...
> Personally I would encourage [alcohol taxes] be directed into
>alcoholism prevention [...]

While being generous with other people's money, Edward you might as well
encourage the state to take Bill Gates' billions to pay for your other pet
projects ?

Why should the sensible use of alcohol specifically be taxed to pay the
costs of alcoholism ?   Should foods with phenylalanine be taxed to pay for
phenylketonuria ?  Should peanuts be taxed to pay for peanut allergy
illnesses ?   Pinning the costs of alcoholism disproportionately on sensible
drinkers is a miscalculation of responsibility and a hugely unfair
imposition of taxes.

=====
Thomas said:
>Has anyone ever mashed too high, say in the mid 70's, by accident?

In one study, under some reasonably brewery like conditions w/ a 1hr mash of
PA malt and a controlled single temp,  the fermentability of wort as a
function of temperature ran like this:

70C - 72%
75C - 50%
80C - 28%
85C - 20%

At these high temps,  fermentability increases in thicker mashes and
decreases in thinner, given the longish mash period.   Increasing mash
thickness is very similar in effect to decreasing the mash temperature.
[Thickness generally decreases enzyme  activity and denaturing rates.]

I think 50% attenuation is too low even for the heavyweight low attenuation
bock beers, but in the low-mid  60's is probably not out-of-line.

 -S

ps. It's great to see AlK back on the job, chasing half-truths and momilies
off the H'gest wholesale after a multi-year hiatus.





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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:09:53 -0400
From: "mda" <mda at bellsouth.net>
Subject: SkullSplitter Ale recipe

Hi all,

It's been a while since I have posted or responded but I have a question for
the collective.  As I live in the Brewing/Beer backward State of GA (No beer
with an alcohol content over 5.5% imported to the state), I have recently
run across a great beer (Barley wine?) called SkullSplitter Ale, which is
brewed in The Orkney Islands off of Scotland.  I can taste some complex
flavors such as smoke and caramelized grains, but I would love to make this
beer so that I can have it available throughout the year, not just when I
visit the In-laws.  If you have a recipe that can give me for this great
strong ale, I would certainly be very appreciative.

Thanks....Mark



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:51:54 -0400
From: Eric <edahlber at rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Roeselare 3763

John Misrahi commented on his experience so far with this new Wyeast 
blend, but I had a few questions for him(and the rest of you).

I assume since some of the yeast and bacteria are the same as the Lambic 
blend that certain organisms will dominate at different stages of 
fermentation and aging. I wish that I had known about this new blend 
last week when I made a sour brown. I'll be pitching the 3278 in a day 
or two (with a small amount of oak chips and several pounds of cherries).

John please tell us how your beer develops - I assume you'll let it sit 
for 6 months or more? What type of beer did you make, and would you 
share the recipe? What are you fermenting in? I was considering racking 
onto some cherries in a plastic bucket in hopes of the plastics' 
porosity being similar to an oak barrel. What do you Belgian pro's 
think - do plastic fermenters let a similar quantity of oxygen and other 
things into the beer like an oak barrel would or am I better off 
sticking with a few oak chips in a glass carboy?

Anybody done much with the Roeselare yet? I know it's new, but not how 
new. I assume that the critters are slow growing just like the lambic 
blend - am I wrong? Also , anyone willing to send me their recipes for a 
Flanders Sour Brown would be the recipient of much thanks.

Waiting for nature to finish my beer,

Eric D.
Ra cha cha, NY
with a 10 month old lambic experiment, and a soon to be soured Flanders 
Brown in the closet



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