---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  British Ingredients (John Mellby)
  Re: Incidents in two Brewpubs (Todd Koumrian)
  Red Star again and again (florianb)
  Doric Ale Yeast (CORONELLRJDS)
  Re: Wyeast bursting (John Polstra)
  Re: Weiss Beer, culture yeast (John Polstra)
  Doric Ale Yeast (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Red Star (again) (Dick Dunn)
  Doric yeast (Doug Roberts)
  AHA National Conference (Chuck Cox)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 May 90 08:15 EDT
From: "As I mentioned next week in my talk on reversible time..."

From HOMEBREW Digest, Wed 30 May 1990:
> Question #2: This fungus doesn't "hurt" the beer, but it hurts my
> perception of it, which is important.  Does anybody have any
> experience with all-kitchen sanitation?

Sorry I can't help with any of the other questions, but this one is relatively
easy to handle. Simple kitchen sterilization involves detergent, some elbow
grease, and water OVER 140 degrees F. When anything is kept in water this hot
for a few minutes, nothing except certain bugs found in deep sea vents can
survive, even the dreaded Giardia, or Montezuma's Revenge. This method has
worked well in my laboratories at the college, and I have used it at home for
years and avoided several nasties. Hope this helps. Be careful and don't scald
yourself...

By the way, we have an interesting thing on our VAX here called Notes
Conference. Insted of getting all the Digests through raw bitnet, it comes in
to one spot and then send to a "notebook" where signups like myself can access
it, extract it, and reply. Is anyone else using VMS utilities, or is everyone
Bitnet?

Capt. Kirk                 ===^=== *===========    "Keptin, Sir! It's a
                               \       //           Klingon Battlecruiser!"
                                ==========
AYDLETT at UNCG.BITNET

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 11:16:14 CDT
From: jmellby at ngstl1.csc.ti.com (John Mellby)
Subject: British Ingredients

Demerara sugar (since my wife uses this in her tea) is a much rawer sugar
than Turbinado sugar.  We have gotten it in the local British food store
in Dallas, and I believe in the Simon David's (local high-quality food
store).  Lyles Golden Syrup is available locally in a number of the
larger, high-quality supermarkets, so it is possible that a large
general purpose store would have it (near the corn sugar or syrup).
I believe my wife got some black treacle in the same section, again in a
general supermarket, albeit a very large one.

Thus, these ingredients are available.  If you can't find them and can't
mail order to British food stores, you might find a grocery, especially
the gourmet ones, which could do a special order for you.

John R. Mellby
jmellby at ngstl1.ti.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 10:26:58 PDT
From: todd at NISC.SRI.COM (Todd Koumrian)
Subject: Re: Incidents in two Brewpubs

Boy, you are brave to have gone to Bison in a suit.  I avoid that place
since there are usually too many bikers around to make me comfortable,
and that whole Telegraph area is really getting pretty scummy these days.
It's too bad.

Send out a message to the list before you go and I'm sure you can get several
good recommendations for brewpubs in the area.  For instance, only about 8
or 9 blocks away on University and Shattuck is Triple Rock, and there are
others a bit further away.

If anyone is heading to Salt Lake City, I can recommend the Squatter's Pub
2 blocks south of the Salt Palace Convention Center (3 blocks south of
Temple Square).  3 Regular beers plus a seasonal/special brew.  Samplers
available and the food is quite good (sandwiches, pizzas, pasta, meat,
light pub fare) and the place is pretty hip.  I was tipped off to this place
a couple weeks back during a business trip there from someone on the plane.

Todd Koumrian

Return to table of contents


Date: 30 May 90 11:05:16 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET
Subject: Red Star again and again

I haven't done any limb-climbing in a while, so I can't let the Red Star
controversy go by again without carrying a banner.

The recent razing over Red Star once more attempts to put it in the dog house.
In a recent communication with Pete Soper, he shared with me the results of
some research he did regarding the use of yeasts in AHA winning recipes.
May I quote you, Pete?  I'm going to anyway.

In the years 1987-89, dry yeasts won 79% of the top 38 entries.  Of these,
Red Star took 34%, and Red Star was #4 and #5 overall.  EDME came out #1
overall, with 24%.

Now if RS is so bad, how does it produce winning homebrews?  Why was it listed
recently in the Steinbart's newsletter as being one of the lowest in bacterial
content?  

May I offer an explanation?  Due to the fact that beer is mainly water, the
purity and mineral content of water is a strong factor in the quality of beer
produced with it.  Yeasts react to their overall environment, including
such factors as water quality, temperature, volume, density, and so on.
Any type of yeast can do poorly under the wrong conditions.  For those who
find problems using Red Star, perhaps it doesn't like the water they are
using, or some other factor in the brewing process.

In the region where I live, the water is mainly runoff from the Cascades.
This water makes good beer when I use Red Star Lager yeast.  However, when
I use the Wyeast Lager yeasts, I just don't get good results.  On the other
hand, I get good results from using EDME ale yeast, but poorer results when
using Red Star Ale yeast.  The explanation must, in my opinion, have to do
with the water and other fermentation conditions.  I simply cannot make
any intelligent generalizations about different types of yeasts by throwing
them into a doghouse.  Hey, experiment, and find what works best for you!

Now where can I buy "Dogbolter," anyway?

Florian

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 13:29 MST
From: CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU
Subject: Doric Ale Yeast


About Doric ale yeast:  Just last night, I checked the 1989 special issue 
of Zymurgy, and remeber reading that Doric had one of the highest initial 
viable yeast concentrations, and one of the lowest contamination levels.  
In the taste test, Doric was given a grade of 4 (out of 10) by their panel 
of experts, and was rated "average".  Bare in mind, though, that these 
tests weren't really representative of an average of any brand, since they 
made no attempt to reproduce their results over a period of time.  (It's 
well known that samples of yeast from any given manufacturer vary 
substantially over time.)

My partner and I have used this brand a few times, with good results.  
Doric ale yeast is definitely a fast starting yeast.  Our uneducated 
palates never detected any off flavors.

			Beer's to yeast,
			Chuck Coronella
			CORONELLRJDS at CHEMICAL.UTAH.EDU

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 08:57:27 PDT
From: hplabs!polstra!jdp (John Polstra)
Subject: Re: Wyeast bursting

In HBD #427, Ed Sieja <ems!ems at uunet.UU.NET> describes a recent
experience with exploding Wyeast:

> I placed it on the counter and applied the usual pressure with the base
> of my palm and *BLAM* the thing just exploded - sending yeast and wort
> on the counter and floor.

That happened to me a couple of times with the old-style packets.
Finally, I discovered THE SECRET to success with Wyeast: *IGNORE* the
directions printed on the packet!

In particular, *IGNORE* the part that says to use the palm of your hand.
I don't know about your palm, but mine is just not localized enough.
Instead, make a fist and bring it down smartly onto the center of the
Wyeast packet.  Your fist should be vertical, i.e., thumb toward the
ceiling, pinky toward the floor.  It works -- first time, every time.
No more chasing the inner yeast packet from side to side after it has
broken loose from the outer envelope without bursting.  No more
escalating frustration culminating in a make-my-day whack that inoculates
the entire kitchen.

Homebrewers unite for yeast disarmament!

 -  John Polstra               jdp at polstra.uucp
   Polstra & Co., Inc.        practic!polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Seattle, Washington USA    ...{uunet,sun,pyramid}!practic!polstra!jdp
   (206) 932-6482


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 09:22:06 PDT
From: hplabs!polstra!jdp (John Polstra)
Subject: Re: Weiss Beer, culture yeast

In HBD #428, boubez at caip.rutgers.edu (Toufic Boubez) asks:

> What makes a weiss beer what it is?

Two things:  (1) wheat malt (duh), and (2) the yeast.

My personal experience is with Bavarian weiss beers (I travel to Munich
once in a while on business).  I don't know much about the other
varieties.

Anyway, the typical Bavarian weiss beer has around 60% wheat malt.  Even
more important to the character of the beer, in my opinion, is the yeast
that is used.  It gives the beer a distinct spicy aroma -- to me, it
smells just like cloves.  Luckily, Wyeast sells such a yeast:  #3056
Bavarian Weizen, they call it.  I used it once, and it worked great.

If you can't get the Wyeast, you might try using Vierka lager yeast (a
dry yeast).  It produces that same clove-like aroma.  (But, use the Wyeast
if at all possible.)

For more information about wheat beers, check out the Spring 1989 issue
of Zymurgy (Vol. 12, No. 1).

Now, I can't resist some editorial comment / flaming / whining:  If you
make a good *authentic* weiss beer, don't expect it to fare well in a US
contest.  Many beer judges have never tasted the real thing.  When they
do, they don't like it.  They make ignorant criticisms such as, "a little
hazy," and then take off points for appearance.  (Authentic Bavarian weiss
beers are served very young and are usually way too *cloudy* to possibly
detect any "haze".)  Also, many inexperienced judges dislike the spicy
aroma of weiss beer and think something is wrong with it.

Flame off.  I feel better now.

 -  John Polstra               jdp at polstra.uucp
   Polstra & Co., Inc.        practic!polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Seattle, Washington USA    ...{uunet,sun,pyramid}!practic!polstra!jdp
   (206) 932-6482


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 9:12:23 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <hplabs!pbmoss!mal>
Subject: Doric Ale Yeast

In HOMEBREW Digest #428, Cher Feinstein asked:
> 		... y'all have got 
> me convinced that Red Star yeast is a Bad Thing ...
>		...  will anyone comment on Doric, which is the other 
>brand of dry yeast I happen to have on hand?

This is based on an inadequate sample:  one batch.  It was, however,
a rather good batch!  I'd used pretty much the same (porter) recipe
with Red Star, and used it again later with Edme.  The Doric version
(different only in hopping from the Red Star batch) had a mild,
sweet flavor, with no obvious faults.  The Edme batch was slightly
different, in that I'd added 8 oz of wheat malt, and was MUCH drier
in flavor, also with no obvious faults.

The Doric batch scared me a bit by starting fermentation VERY
slowly, and never seeming to do much.  It formed a thin layer of
anemic-looking foam atop the wort, and bubbled very slowly.  I
suspect one reason for Red Star's lingering popularity is that it
really gets with the program; very reassuring to the brewer.  In the
final analysis, I didn't use Doric again because I was worried about
an infection developing during that long lag time, and because I was
looking for more attenuation than it delivered.

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= pacbell!pbmoss!mal  -or-  mal at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM      916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =



Return to table of contents


Date: 30 May 90 19:02:49 MDT (Wed)
From: hplabs!gatech!ico.isc.com!raven!rcd (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Red Star (again)

roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts) writes, among some reasonable
commnts about Red Star:

> 3. Personal, comparitive experience: Another member of my home brew
> club (The HillHoppers, of Los Alamos) and I brewed identical brown ale
> recipes. My starting gravity was 1.042 and his was 1.043. My end
> gravity was 1.008, his was was 1.022. My brown ale was a nice, dry
> London brown; his was cloyingly sweet because Red Star is not very 
> attenuative, _and_ it was highly phenolic to boot.

There's something a lot more wrong than just Red Star yeast here!  A "less
attenuative" yeast might give you something like 1.012 instead of 1.008,
but landing way up at 1.022 says there's something faulty in the procedure
or perhaps just-plain-damaged yeast.  (By the latter, I don't mean poor
quality; I mean yeast that's way too old, or has been sitting in a
refrigerator, or some such.)

> ...I would also like to see Red Star go the way of the
> dinosaur. I feel it's time has passed (the same way Pabst Blue Ribbon's
> "Dietetic Malt" time has come and gone)...

Erk?  Perhaps Premier Malt Products Blue Ribbon Diastatic Malt?  (As much
as Premier is a relic of times gone by, I'd still hate to see their name
sullied by association with Pabst.:-)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 19:50:02 MDT
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts)
Subject: Doric yeast

[request for comments on Doric yeast]

Well, I can't relate any first-hand experiences with Doric yeast,
having never used it, but I can tell you what was said about it in the
1989 Special Yeast issue of Zymurgy. It seems that there are two kinds
of Doric dry ale yeast: packet, and bulk. The packet variety was given
a rating of "average", or 4 on a scale of 0 - 10, and the description
of the qualities that it imparted to the wort were "phenolic, fruity,
apple". The bulk variety of Doric also recieved a rating of "average",
with a numeric score of 6 out of 10 and the comments "phenolic,
cidery, fruity, slightly sour".

Additionally, (and this part doesn't make sense to me) the packet
variety had a "low" lactic count (57), whereas the bulk had a "high"
lactic count (1,435). This might explain the "slightly sour"
descriptive given the bulk variety, but would also tend to indicate
that your batches made with bulk Doric will go sour on you. For
comparison, Red Star had an "intermediate" lactic count (417), as did
Whitbread, (414).

- --Doug

================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-609             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 May 90 15:46:14 EDT
From: chuck%bose at uunet.UU.NET (Chuck Cox)
Subject: AHA National Conference

Howdy-

I decided to go ahead and provide more info about the
AHA 1990 National Homebrewers Conference.
However, any truly serious homebrewer should already be a member of
the AHA, and will have received this info in Zymurgy.

*** SCHEDULE ($$$ means costs extra) ***

Wed 6/13
Morning:	Registration
		Beer Judge Certification Exam	$$$
Afternoon:	Beer Evaluation Seminar		$$$
		National Competition Judging
		Evening Reception

Thu 6/14
Morning:	Welcome and Introduction		Charlie Papazian
		The World of Malt			Randy Mosher
		German Beer				Dan Gordo
		Quality Homebrew			Scott Birdwell
Lunch:		Slide show				Bruce Prochal
Afternoon:	Corners of the Round Table		panel
		Best of Show/Homebrewer of the Year judging
Evening:	Homebrew Club Night

Fri 6/15
Morning:	AHA Forum				Charlie Papazian
		Essentials of Step Infusion Mashing	Ron Downer
		Simplified Quality Control		George Fix
		Carbonating Your Brew			Byron Burch
Afternoon:	The Microbrewery and Brewpub Phenomenon	Jeff Mendel
		Beer Blending ala Judy			Judy Ashworth
		Slings of Outrageous Fortune		Larry Bell
Evening:	Gala Awards Banquet

Sat 6/16
Morning:	Brew-in and Brunch at the Anchor Brewing Co.
		Beer Judge Certification Exam	$$$
Lunch:		Michael Jackson Luncheon	$$$	Michael Jackson
Afternoon:	Beer and Brewing Exposition
Evening:	California Brewmasters' Tasting	$$$

In the works:	There is a Malibu GP race track in Oakland,
		I am going to try to organize a homebrewers race.

*** FEES ***

Full Conference				$240 (members)	$290 (non-members)
Saturday Only				$ 60
Spouse					$120
Membership				$ 21
Beer Judge Exam				$ 40
Beer Evaluation Seminar			$ 10 ($ 20 at door)
Michael Jackson's Luncheon		$ 25
California Brewmaster's Tasting		$ 12 ($ 15 at door)
1990 Conference Transcripts		$ 15 (members)	$ 18 (non-members)

check, money order, master card, visa accepted

*** AHA ***

American Homebrewers Association
PO Box 287
Boulder, CO  80306

voice:	(303) 447-0816
fax:	(303) 447-2825

*** TRAVEL & LODGING ***

United Airlines is offering discounts for travel to and from the Conference.
Call (800) 521-4041, refer to meeting code 431DD.

The conference is located in the Hyatt Regency Oakland Hotel,
located in downtown Oakland, close to pulic transportation.
Reservations (800) 233-1234 or (415) 893-1234.

*** OPINIONS ***

If you think $240 is a little steep, you're not alone.
Cost is the most common complaint I hear.  The conference does provide
many activities, but I am not convinced they are worth $240,
especially considering that the luncheon & tasting are extra.
I seriously considered registering for the social stuff only,
but what the hell, I'm an overpaid nerd, I can afford it.

I also think that scheduling any activity before 12 noon (except the brew-in)
is absurd.  Afternoon sessions get about twice the attendence as morning
sessions.  None of the serious brewers are walking erect before noon.
Not surprising considering that there are parties (I mean tasting and
evaluation sessions) going on past 3am every night.

 - Chuck Cox - america's fastest beer judge -


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #429, 05/31/90
*************************************
-------

---