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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Help with all-grain brew (Michael)
  Lallemand (David Towson)
  Two-gauge regulator progress report (Calvin Perilloux)
  Re: full flavored mild (Jeff Renner)
  Minikegs. ("Dan Listermann")
  Poor mash efficiency ("Dan Listermann")
  2 gauges (ensmingr)
  beer bars/breweries in Krakow and Zurich (Michael Hetzel)
  Pink stuff ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_full_flavored_mild?= ("=?iso-8859-1?Q?Larry_Bristol?=")
  beers to bring back to california (g flo)


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 00:32:42 -0500
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Help with all-grain brew

Stephen.T.Kajdasz at Dartmouth.EDU (Stephen T. Kajdasz) wrote asking for
help with his first all-grain brew.

The first thing that pops into my mind is the crush. Are you crushing
your grain or is your local shop? One or the other or you might need to
adjust your mill. When I've sparged and had poor efficiency, the crush
is usually too fine. (While grinding grain for a recent batch, I was
interrupted. I discovered just after doughing in that I had managed to
completely miss what must have roughly two pounds of grain.)

The next thing is not to worry about it so much. Seriously. (I should
come up with a catchy slogan like that and put it in a book.) 

Water chemistry is important, but I wouldn't worry about it until you've
got at least one batch under your belt. I'm also under the impression
that nice soft water like yours is much less likely to be a problem than
hard water, anyway. (I have had horrible water problems, but I think I
am the exception.)

I would recommend tasting the wort at all stages of the process so you
can get some idea of what it should taste like. You may also be able to
recognize some off flavors (although the sweetness of the wort will
often mask them).

Michael
Middleton, WI

P.S. I second the Great Dane. A second location has opened up on Fish
Hatchery south of the Beltline, too.


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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:28:48 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Lallemand

Question for Rob Moline:  If you can figure out how to portray it, please 
tell us how to properly pronounce the company name.  Thanks.

Dave Towson
Bel Air, MD



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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 06:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Two-gauge regulator progress report

Ah, the double- vs. single-gauge regulator saga continues!
Progress report:

After several days and a barbecue in which a decnt bit
of keg beer was drunk up, my second gauge conveniently
reads about 20 atm, down from upper 20's a few days ago.
This gauge is indeed useful, you see, because now I know 
I can make it till the weekend (and maybe even beyond)
before dragging that heavy steel, unhandled beast 
to the gas dealer.

Of course, if you have any leaks in the lines, as Al 
had mentioned he might have had, all bets are off. 

As Al mentioned, if we know the volume of the tank, it's
indeed an easy calculation to see how much beer we can
push out -- or how much beer we can force carbonate, 
for that matter, with slightly more calculation.  
But I'm not sure the exact internal volume of my 20# tank.

>> On my 5-lb tank, I'm certain you would agree with me, right? ;^)

Yeah, to some extent.  Though when my 5# tank gets down to,
say, 30 atm, I'd reckon from the dimensions of it that I've
got at least 30 litres of CO2 for pushing beer, probably more.
That one will be running low on me soon, too, so I promise
an HBD update when it happens, to see if the double gauge
is of any use at all for that much shorter warning period.

> I still would contend that if someone was trying to get 
> into kegging for the least amount of cost, I would forgo 
> the second gauge.

Yep, agreed.  Myself, I'll spend the extra $10 up front, 
though, especially if I had a bigger tank to use with it.

One more caveat:  That high-pressure regulator is what is most
likely to get smashed when your tank falls over, since it
protrudes out to the side.  OK, add on another $16 for a 
gauge cage for "insurance".  Sigh.  Or be careful and lucky
like me (so far) with it.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA





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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:40:11 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: full flavored mild

Chris Hofmann <Chris.Hofmann at camtronics.com> of Mukwonago, WI wants 
to brew a mild based on his:

>house brew ... a malty (1.050-1.055, with lots of Munich, Crystal), hoppy
>( ~ 60 IBU) APAish concoction. ... If I want to scale it down to say 
>1.038, should I just cut everything proportionally?
>
>I know it may not technically be a mild, but is this the right approach?

I like to use Munich malt in a mild, even though it is certainly not 
traditional in Britain.  I think it gives a nice maltiness.  But I 
think you can improve by making a small adjustment by adding some 
chocolate malt and maybe even a tiny touch of black malt.  The 
roastiness is typical and appropriate.  But while you can just cut 
your malt bill by, say, 25-30%, you will need to cut the hops way 
back to about 20 IBU for authenticity.

I think the best home brewed mild I've had was one brewed by Joanne 
Anderson, a fine brewer from Peterboro, Ontario (and regular attendee 
of the National Homebrew Conferences, including this year's in 
Chicago).  It took Best of Show in the Canadian Amateur Brewing 
Association's 2001 national competition.

I was privileged to sit on the BoS panel, and it was a real pleasure 
to award BoS to a mild in the face of competition from big beers.  As 
I recall it came down to her mild and a fine barley wine.  I 
advocated for the mild, not only because I thought it was a slightly 
superior beer, but also because it is so hard to brew a flavorful low 
gravity beer.

Joanne is of the artistic or intuitive bent, as opposed to the 
scientific (to use a distinction that was discussed here recently), 
and insists that she really doesn't know what she's doing.  Ha!  She 
had several other beers that made it to BoS that day as well.  She 
obviously can formulate a recipe and brew it.

If you care to brew a recipe different from a scaled down version of 
your house beer, you couldn't go far wrong with her recipe.  She 
shared with the UK HB group, so I'm sure she wouldn't mind my sharing 
it here.  I think that using Maris Otter important, and the use of 
Carafa III was inspired.  It gave the roastiness without any 
bitterness or burnt flavor.


Joanne Anderson's Welsh Dark Mild for 5 U.S. gallons
starting S.G. 1038              finishing S.G. 1012

6 1/4 lbs. Maris Otter British pale malt
1/2 lb. Chocolate malt (DWC)
1/2 lb. Caravienne L 62 (DWC)
2 oz. Carafa III malt (Weyermann)
6 oz. Crystal Malt 10 L (Briess)
4 oz. Torrified wheat (Briess)

 .85 oz. East Kent Goldings alpha 5.9 for 60 minutes in the boil
 .50 oz. East Kent Goldings alpha 5.9 for the last 10 minutes of the boil
1 tsp. Irish moss for the last 15 minutes of the boil

water treatment  - 2 1/2 tsp. Burton crystals
1 tsp. gelatin for finings
yeast - White Labs British ale yeast
Mashed in at 154 F. single infusion mash and left for 90 minutes in oven
Primed with 1/2 cup of dextrose

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:19:28 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Minikegs.

: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net> asks about minikegs getting oxidized.   I
have used minikegs for years and never notice oxidation despite letting them
go long periods of time at room temperature and a well known sensitivity to
oxidation.  To get oxidation, you need oxygen.  It would either have to be
left at filling or injected.  Using CO2 cartridges to power the minikeg
pretty much eliminates that problem.  I have used kegs half full and, while
I try to drink them first, I don't notice problems.  Using sugar to prime
the kegs scavenges O2 from the head space.  If the priming sugar is poured
into the keg dry at filling, it supplies nucleation sites for CO2 in
solution to come out of solution.  This drives a lot of the air in the
headspace out.  This has become my standard procedure.  Perhaps there is
another problem that he is identifying as oxidation.

Metallic flavors can come from metal exposure or some biological problems.
If the coating of the interior of the minikeg has not been breached, these
flavors should not come from metal exposure.  Attempting to brush the kegs
can scratch the coating.  I don't recommend brush use for minikegs.

Sometimes rust will form around the mouth of a minikeg.  This is from the
bung stressing the coating.  It should be remembered that the lip area is
completely covered with the bung when in use so even this should not be a
source of metallic flavors.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:25:36 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Poor mash efficiency

Stephen.T.Kajdasz at Dartmouth.EDU (Stephen T. Kajdasz) asks about his poor
efficiency.  Almost all efficiency problems experienced by beginning
all-grain brewers is related to inadequate crush.  They read "just barely
crush it" in a lot of books and wonder why they get lousy efficiency.  This
advice might have been good with difficult to control Corona mills, but is
not good for proper roller mills.  Crush the grain until it is difficult to
find uncrushed corns and those you do find should look underdeveloped.

It is highly unlikely that water is causing this brewer's efficiency
problems.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:35:58 -0400
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: 2 gauges

Instead of using 2 gauges, I suggest weighing the CO2 tank. If
you know the weight when empty, then you can weigh it at any time
and know how much you have left. This is cheaper than buying a
second gauge and you can tell how much you have left at any
point, not just when your tank is about to run dry.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
- -----
http://hbd.org/ensmingr





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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:53:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc at yahoo.com>
Subject: beer bars/breweries in Krakow and Zurich

In three weeks I'll be in Krakow for a few days before visiting family,
and I'm wondering if someone in the hbd community could recommend some
quality and/or interesting beer bars, breweries or perhaps even a place
to get mead. I'm looking forward to many Zywiec Porters, but want to
fully explore Krakow's beer scene.
Also, I'll have a layover in Zurich on the return.. any similiar
recommendations? Feel free to email me privately (hetzelnc at yahoo.com).

Na zdrowie (to your health),
Mike Hetzel
Waltham, MA




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Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 11:00:58 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Pink stuff

Dave Houseman writes:

>And I've found an iron residue in carboy's
>of iodophor solution; apparently the iodophor solution causes any residual
>iron to precipitate out. 
>
I wouldn't be surprised.  The standard treatment for excess iron in 
water is to chlorinate it, which causes some rust-like compound to 
precipitate (I'm assuming it's the chlorine that does it), then 
sand-filter to remove the "rust", and charcoal-filter to remove (enough 
of) the remaining chlorine to make it taste ok.  So assuming it's the 
chlorine that does the job there, it seems logical that iodine, being in 
the same column of the periodic table, could do the same trick.

=S



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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 12:37:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Larry_Bristol?=" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_full_flavored_mild?=

On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:41:48 -0500, "Hofmann, Chris"
<Chris.Hofmann at camtronics.com> queried:

> Never have brewed a mild (intentionally). But as someone once posted
> here, brewing a full flavored mild is one of the great challenges in
> brewing.
> My house brew is a malty (1.050-1.055, with lots of Munich, Crystal),
> hoppy ( ~ 60 IBU) APAish concoction.
> I would like to brew a smaller (less ABV) version.
> If I want to scale it down to say 1.038, should I just cut everything
> proportionally?
> I know it may not technically be a mild, but is this the right
> approach?

The BEST answer to your question can be obtained from "Mild Ale: History,
Brewing Techniques, Recipes" (#15 in the Classic Beer Style Series) by David
Sutula, David Suhila.  That being said, I will happily share with you the
experiences I have had brewing this style.

I like to think of Mild Ale as being a "light" Scotch Ale.  Because of this,
biscuit malt (IMHO) is an essential ingredient.  So I began by taking the
recipe for my favorite scotch ale, cutting the grain bill in half, and
substituting mild malt for pale malt.  This produces an OG around 1.043,
typically ending around 1.013, and thus yields about 4% ABV.  Since the hop
characteristics of mild ale should not be particularly assertive, I use pure
EKGs and keep the IBUs down to about 28.0 or so.  I also use a yeast with a
very neutral flavor.

Over time, I have had to modify the recipe slightly.   Mild malt is not easy
to find these days, so I had to adjust it back for pale malt, increasing the
amount slightly.  It also necessitated changing to a darker crystal malt (to
restore the beautiful bronze color), and increasing the amount of cara-pils
(to restore the body and mouth feel).  Lallemand London Ale yeast worked
very well, but my latest batch was made with Safale #04 that I found while
browsing the Beer, Beer and More Beer web site (http://www.morebeer.com -
YABADABADO and all the standard disclaimers).  I am very pleased with the
performance and flavor profile of this yeast.

My mild ale is known as "Muddy Mudskipper Mild Ale", and the recipe for it
is available on my web site at:
http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/recipes/MuddyMudskipperMild.php
[WOW! Is that a handful to type, or what?!?].

Is this recipe valid for this style?  I will leave that question to those
who actually care about such things.  All I can tell you is that I have a
difficult time keeping it in my beer cooler, especially when I have a party.
 Maybe formulating the recipe was a challenge, but it is not particularly
challenging to brew.  The results, however, are wonderful, and this is a
great way to introduce those friends who have been drinking watery lager all
their lives into the wonderful world of ale!

- ---
Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: g flo <gflo77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: beers to bring back to california

So I am going on a roadtrip to New Mexico next week
through Arizona.  I was hoping for suggestions on some
local bottled beer I can bring back with me and enjoy
on my trip.  I am going to Phoenix and Albuquerque, so
any suggestions on regional specialties would be
appreciated.  I am also going through San Diego, but I
already have a quite a long list for there.  

Thanks in advance

Greg Flores
Santa Cruz, CA
http://www.emptyboxbrewing.blogspot.com



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