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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Dr. Cone 2003 (Eric)
  Exploding CO2 tanks (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: Room enough for 10 gallons? ("Kevin Kutskill")
  St. Pat's (Randy Ricchi)
  DO Levels ("A.J. deLange")
  aluminum vs steel CO2 tanks (Rama Roberts)
  Great Canadian Beer Festival ("David Gates")
  sanitizers and septic, iodofore concentrations (beerbuddy)
  Muntons Wheat Malt ("David Craft")
  Packing Dried Hops ("David King")


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* * * * * * * *       IN  PROGRESS!       * * * * * * * *
*          Dr. Clayton Cone Fortnight of Yeast          *
*      8/11/03 - 8/22/03 Yeast Questions Answered       *
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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:13:47 -0400
From: Eric <edahlber at rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Dr. Cone 2003

Dr. Cone asked: I am curious why are you interested in a procedure for 
rapidly increasing
the cell density of Brett?  Lambic beer?

That is exactly why. I can't get enough lambic beer. Which leads to 
another question or two, if there is space/time to answer.
An 11 month old lambic with the waxy pellicle at the top behaves very 
differently at only slightly (in my mind) different temperatures. 
Between 70 - 74F there appears to be little, if any activity in the 
carboy. But if the temp in my closet (where it's stored) gets above 75, 
a steady stream of extremely tiny bubbles (assumed to be CO2) are seen. 
I originally thought that it was simply CO2 coming out of solution, but 
the thickness of the waxy layer at the top seems to shrink and grow 
(slightly) with the temp too.

It seems odd that there would be such an on/off temperature range for 
the yeast and bacteria to be active at - any ideas? I never allow the 
temp in my house above 80F, so I don't know if the activity continues to 
accelerate past that point.

  Also, I know the phenomenon we call beer skunking is a result of light 
and hop oils reacting, but I am wondering if my nightly ritual of 
shining a flashlight into the carboy may be having any negative effect 
on my yeast? Photosensitive yeast?

I have many questions, but there are others who deserve some bandwidth, 
so I'll stop here.
Thank you again,
Eric Dahlberg
Rochester, NY



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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:33:33 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Exploding CO2 tanks

Hi Ronald, hi all
well i don't think that CO2 (O2, H, N...) tanks on high pressure
will become terrorist targets. They are indeed dangerous when they are
improperly handled. I can not talk out of my own experience, because
it is very likely, that you only get ONE chance to do it the wrong way.
We have laws/regulations for these kind of pressurized containers, that
date back to the steam engine times. Those "high" pressure parts almost
always killed a couple and most of the times started a fire.
We had a Oxygen plant in the next village. I heard stories, that once
a tank went off.(Oxygen is around 200 bar or 2900 PSI, as i remember)
It went up 3 floors of armoured concrete. As far as i know, the fillers
are required to overpressurize the containers to test them when filling.
But still, keep them securely upright(use a chain), don't use a hammer
on the valve and don't store them in a acid puddle.(use common sense)
Most accidents happen with the right mixture of butane/propane and air,
not the pressure inside the containers. But there sure is a potential
for devastation in CO2 tanks. The most delicate part of it is the valve.
Most of the tanks i saw(own) lately, have a securitty fixture around
it. The tanks can withstand a certain amount of "mishandling", as
you observed.

Thomas



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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:08:43 -0400
From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Room enough for 10 gallons?

Nate Hall <hallzoo at comcast.net> asks:

>Is it possible to ferment 10 gallons in a 12.2 gal TMS conical without
>blowoff? I want to brew a 10 gal ale using WL California Ale yeast (in a 1
>gallon starter). I haven't yet sealed the lid and made arrangements for a
>blowoff setup. What would you think is the maximum volume you can ferment
>without worrying about blowoff? Thanks for the help!

Like Jeff Renner mentioned, there is a product called Foam Control, sold by
Hop Tech (no affiliation, yada, yada, yada).  You use 1 tsp. for every 5
gallons, and works like a dream.  With this stuff, there is no foam during
fermentation, but doesn't affect the head in the resulting beer.  I use this
for my 10 gallon batches in my 12.2 gallon conical, and have never worried
about blowoff again.

Kevin
beer-geek at comcast.net




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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 08:10:29 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: St. Pat's

Hmmm,,,,so business was so good with homebrewing ingredients that they
had to drop them. I never woulda thought that would happen. Guess I
don't understand business.



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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:20:27 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: DO Levels

I never really fully accepted the thesis that DO levels attainable at a 
particular partial pressure were a strong function of the strength of 
the solution. It's my recollection that DO meters respond to the mole 
fraction of oxygen in the solution and when the amount of sugar goes up 
the mole fraction of oxygen must go down. Thus I suspect that the 
observations may be accurate but that it is the meter response which is 
changing, not the amount of dissolved O2 (or that the measured change 
may be less than the actual change). My thesis is somewhat supported by 
the fact that meters must be corrected for the presence of salt when 
used in salt water solutions (as they often are in environmental work).

An interesting area for some thought/experimentation.

Cheers, A.J,.



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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:38:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at sun.com>
Subject: aluminum vs steel CO2 tanks

in response to:
> Aluminum is particularly susceptible because, relative to steel,
> it is quite brittle. -Kevin
Calvin asked:
>Really?  I have been under the impression that aluminum is
>significantly WEAKER than steel.  But more brittle?  These are
>different properties.  Can one of the metallurgists chime in?

I didn't see any metallurgists pipe up, so I'll give my 2 cents.

Aluminum is indeed more brittle. See if you can grab yourself a bendable
piece of steel and aluminum, and work it back and forth. The aluminum
(most varieties) will fatigue and break much quicker than the steel. I
believe its because steel has microscopic specs of carbon embedded
throughout that allow the metal to give rather than snap, and also due to
the crystalline structure steel has which is more forgiving
to flex than aluminum's.

>I have been under the impression that aluminum is significantly WEAKER
>than steel.

As you mentioned, metal has lots of different properties- so it depends
which you're referring to when you mention "strength". Some metals are
better under compression/tension, others fatigue. Under some conditions,
aluminum is *stronger* than steel pound for pound.

(BTW- aluminum is also much more brittle at cold temperatures. If the
tanks discharge quickly enough to drop significantly in temperature, I
would have some concern with aluminum).

That being said, if I were going to get a CO2 cyclinder myself (having
never handled an empty or full tank of any size), I would be inclined to
go with the steel given the option, but wouldn't go out of my way to avoid
aluminum.

- --rama
SF bay area



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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:57:14 -0700
From: "David Gates" <gates at pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Great Canadian Beer Festival

Just wanted to let everyone know the Great Canadian Beer Festival, put on by
BC CAMRA, is taking place in Victoria, British Columbia on Sept. 5 & 6.

It has been expanded this year and is now, also, out doors.  Check it out at
www.gcbf.com

Thanks

David Gates



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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:58:51 +0000
From: beerbuddy at comcast.net
Subject: sanitizers and septic, iodofore concentrations

funny I should have to think about this - always been a city boy until I moved 
into my new little house in the country a couple months ago (North Bend, WA, 
about 30 miles east of Seattle). Does anyone have information on using 
sanitizers and it's effect on the septic system? I'm hoping that the 
relatively small amounts I use for five gallon batches once a month or so 
shouldn't be too detrimental. 

On the same note, I've been using bleach, but wanted to switch to iodofore, 
the bottle doesn't have concentration recommendations though. How much should 
be used in about five gallons of water for sanitizing?

As always, this is a fantastic resource, thanks!

Timothy
North Bend, WA
Somewhere north and west of the center of the homebrew universe (but very much 
in the same mindset)


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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:26:54 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Muntons Wheat Malt

Greetings,

I am using some Wheat DME in a beer shortly.  I have purchased "Muntons
Wheat DME" from the local store under the Crosby and Baker label.

I cannot tell if this is all wheat or the 60/40 blend I have seen
elsewhere.  I checked the Crosby and Muntons site and a few others and
cannot tell.......

Any ideas are appreciated.

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Guild
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:01:50 -0400
From: "David King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Packing Dried Hops

My Fuggles and Cascades are coming on like gang busters.  I've put up over
12 oz (dried) and the main crop's not even here yet.  I've been drying them
on racks, raised up into the rafters in my garage, where it's nice and hot
and dry.  About 2 days does it.  How do you dry yours?

I'm also wondering how the rest of you preserve them.  I pack 1.5 oz into a
quart canning jar, purge with CO2 (effective?  Can't see CO2), screw on a
top, and pop them into the freezer.  That makes them rather full, crushing
the lupulin glands to some degree, but they still take up a lot of room.
This seems to work well, as I get nice dry hop aroma months after freezing
them.  What other methods are there out there?

           Dave King (BIER, Brewers In the Endicott Region)



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