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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Precision Scales (dw)
  Wyeast bag *not* bursting, but almost (RUSSG)
  CAMRA "Good Beer Guide" (Pete Soper)
  Brewpubs, tastings (Tom Hotchkiss)
  Re:  beer babble suppression (Greg Wageman)
  Weighing small amounts (Mark Montgomery)
  Relatively Inexpensive Scale (Dave Sheehy)
  #433, sparging problems, etc (florianb)
  Brewing your first batch (LONG MESSAGE). (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Flames, Cider, MEad, Kegs (JH the flamed)
  Sanitizing fermenter lids; "burnt steak" ale (CONDOF)
  Re: Colorado Brewpubs (doug)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 6 Jun 90 09:28:22 EDT (Wednesday)
From: dw <Wegeng.Henr at Xerox.COM>
Subject: Re: Precision Scales

>Can somebody suggest a different source?

I bought an electronic scale from COMB (a manufacturers closeout catalog).
As I recall it cost about $40.  I don't remember the exact accuracy specs
(probably not 1 gram), but it's better than any other scale that I could
find at a similar cost.  It measures in grams, but will convert to ounces.
I use it to measure hops.

A local "head" shop can probably sell you a 1 gram scale, but you may find
that to be an unacceptable source.

/Don

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Date:     Wed, 6 Jun 90 09:23 EST
From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu> (RUSSG)
Subject:  Wyeast bag *not* bursting, but almost

I just used a batch of Wyeast (American ale, don't remember the number) and
everything was ok, and my brew is bubbling away.  The package was dated April,
so acording to the instructions it should have taken 1-2 days to swell. Well
it swelled in 12 hours at 80 degrees. It swelled to the point where it was
absolutely solid; no give at all! I got concerned (not worried *:), so I
cleaned the package and put it in a clean ziploc bag, just in case.  But as
I said, no bursting, and all was OK.  I *still* feel that the extra work of
the Wyeast is worth it; I have a porter that is clean as can be; the first
homebrew I've tasted that doesn't have that recognizable homebrew yeast
taste.

On a different note, I find the Mellby beer ratings interesting, but a little
too long-winded.  Maybe an abridged version?

I also like the brewpub reviews, but only for the beer, and as it pertains
to brewing styles (and I may someday find myself in a strange place in need
of a *real* beer *:). I think we could do without the food reviews.

Russ Gelinas             R_GELINA at UNHH.BITNET

Anti-disclaimer: I have my grubby little fingers in everything.

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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 90 09:35:13 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: CAMRA "Good Beer Guide"

  When you go to England, stop by a WH Smiths or other bookshop and get a copy
of the Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) publication "The Good Beer Guide". It cost
5-6 pounds last year and should be about the same this year. It is a very 
detailed guide to steer you toward pubs that tend to have the very best ales.

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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 90 8:47:37 MDT
From: Tom Hotchkiss <trh at hpestrh.hp.com>
Subject: Brewpubs, tastings
Full-Name: Tom Hotchkiss


Well, I can't bite my tounge any longer.  To all of you complaining
about postings concerning tastings, brewpubs, etc. I have just one
thing to say: stop your whining.

I can think of 3 reasons why the postings are appropriate in addition
to the fact that I enjoy them.

   1. Discussions of brewpubs and qualities of commercial beers
      *are* relevant to homebrewers for the simple reason that in order
      to advance your skill as a brewer you need to develop your
      palate and your knowledge of beer styles.  In order to
      improve your own brew, you need to be able to taste and evaluate
      your beer and then decide what you might want to change in
      future batches.  The best way to develop your tasting and
      evaluation skills is through practice, which generally involves
      tasting many beers of many different styles.  I think brewpubs
      are an excellent example since often (in my opinion) the quality
      of their beer lies somewhere between decent homebrew and high
      quality commercial beer.  Therefore, brewpub beer provides an
      example of an improved beer that may be closer to your homebrew
      than commercial beers.

      (Note that there are *many* exceptions to my comment about quality
       improving from homebrew, to brewpub, to commercial beer; that's not
       the point.  The point is simply that sampling beers at brewpubs
       can be an excellent way for homebrewers to get ideas about how to
       change or improve their own beer.)

   2. Not everyone has access to or reads notes (i.e. rec.food.drink).
      So moving postings to rec.food.drink means that some people who
      are interested in the postings will miss out.

   3. If you're not interested in a particular posting, how much of your
      precious time does it take to page past it?  You certainly don't
      have to read it if you're not interested.

Let's keep this forum open to everything relevant to homebrewing, which
includes beer styles, brewpubs, and tastings.

Tom Hotchkiss

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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 90 09:17:56 MDT
From: pmk at craycos.com (Peter Klausler)

> With respect to using bottled water, the Colorado Springs tap water is of very
> good quality for brewing.

I'm sure this is true in most of the Springs; however, I don't trust MY water.
Last fall I received a letter from the Colo Spgs water department warning me
against letting any children in my household drink the local tap water. It may
be a problem local to the southern end of town; colleagues who live in the
northern part of the area didn't receive the warning letter. But it was enough
to cause me to switch to alternative sources.

I mail-order supplies because liquid yeast cultures are not sold in any of the
local homebrew stores, and as long as I'm dealing with GFSR for yeast I might as
well have them send me everything else. (Grain is an exception, of course.)

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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 90 08:43:23 PDT
From: greg at cemax.com (Greg Wageman)
Subject: Re:  beer babble suppression

Ken Weiss writes:

>While I tend to agree with Jay as regards my interest in Mr. Mellby's postings,
>I'm opposed to censoring the material. I've probably posted my share of items
>that were not directly related to Q&A on the mechanics of brewing beer. It's
>the nature of an open forum that some material will be seen as irrelevant by
>some readers.
>
>I can't say I'd miss the Mellby files, but I would very much miss the feeling
>I have that this Digest is open to general beer related discussion, and not
>just nuts and bolts informational postings.

I second that.

Those of you who feel you are suffering from information overload, I
humbly suggest that's *your* problem; trying to shut people up isn't the
answer.

Personally, I find the mix of articles and interests in this newsletter to
be just about perfect.  I'm grateful to all for pointing me in new directions,
and not just in homebrewing.

Florian the complainer writes:

>	2	I don't see a need here for discussion of brewpub data.  As Jay
>		mentioned, it is a forum for homebrewing, and I can't see much
>		about brewpubs that have to do with homebrewing.  Unless there's
>		a point about brewpubs that is relevant to homebrewing, could 
>		we please move these discussions to rec.food.drink?  A tabloid
>		of such low SNR is where swillpub discussion belongs anyway.\

Methinks you assumeth too much.

You assume everyone has a newsfeed.  We don't.

You assume that no one is interested in brewpubs.  I am.  The authors of
the articles evidently are.

I believe the homebrew and brewpub industries have very close ties, and
the success of the one is related to the success of the other.  In my
opinion, anything that raises the quality and character of the beer
available to the unwashed masses is a Good Thing.

Many of us are spoiled, having homebrew supply shops popping up
everywhere.  God save us, I expect to see one in a shopping mall any
day now.  I don't know about when any of you started brewing, but when
I did, the only place to get supplies was from mail-order places that
advertised in the back of Popular Science.  "Homebrew" was what nerds
did with computers in their bedrooms...

Let's try to keep the perspective.  The title of this newsletter says, and
I quote, "FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES".

I think that about says it.

	-Greg, the indignant
	greg%cemax at sj.ate.slb.com

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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 90 08:24:24 PDT
From: ncpmont at pepsi.AMD.COM (Mark Montgomery)
Subject: Weighing small amounts


	In response to John Polstra's question re: inexpensive scales
for weighing small amounts of additives for brewing water enhancements:

	I had the same problem and just couldn't talk myself into spending
the better part of a hundred dollar bill just to be able to weigh out gram
weights.  After discussing the problem with friends at work it was suggested
that I try the local gun shop.  Yes,  gun shop !  I picked up an extremely
accurate powder scale on sale for $29.95.  The only minor annoyance with
it is that it's calibrated in grains but the conversion is a small bother.

						Mark Montgomery
						ncpmont at pepsi.amd.com


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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 90 10:22:03 PDT
From: Dave Sheehy <dbs at hprnd>
Subject: Relatively Inexpensive Scale
Full-Name: Dave Sheehy


>Does anybody have any ideas about where to obtain a precise but
>inexpensive scale?

Well, you could buy yourself a reloader's scale.

>So, to do this right I need a scale with a precision of around a tenth
>of a gram.  (Well, OK, I could make do with precision of one gram.)

There is a catch here. Reloader's scales are marked in units of grains (no
pun intended). A pound is equal to 7000 grains (don't ask me why or even why
the unit of measure is grains in the first place!) so one gram is about
15.4 grains. The scales are accurate to a .1 grains which is well in the 
precision range that you would like.

>Can somebody suggest a different source?  By "inexpensive" I suppose I
>mean "substantially less than the price of a laboratory balance scale."

How does under $50 sound? For some reason $37 is the figure that sticks in
my head as the price I paid for my scale (mail order) but that was a few years 
ago. Ask your local firearms enthusiast for a copy of their "Shotgun News" for 
a list of mail order sources.

Dave Sheehy


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Date: 06 Jun 90 13:04:55 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: #433, sparging problems, etc

In #433, Norm Hardy asks:

>I recall reading somewhere that all dry yeasts seem to act more like ale
>yeasts than lager yeasts, that is, even though some are labeled as lager,
>they don't perform well below 55f.
>Red Star lager yeast seems much better than it's ale counterpart.  Hey, when

I can't comment on the acting carrers of most dry yeasts, cause I havent'
tried them, but certainly Red Star Lager works well down to 32 degrees F
in my home town.  For a dry lager like Pils, RSL goes in quick, kicks ass
without taking prisoners, and cleans up well afterwards. Ya gotta let the
SO2 smell bubble out, though.  This is coming from wild yeasties in the
pack, or I ain't called Flo.  I am disappointed with some of the Wyeast
liquid packs in that they take forever to ferment out.  But here again, this
is most likely water and other conditions dependent.  For a reference, see
George Fix's article in the 1985 special grain issue of Zymurgy magazine.
He points out that the true path to good fermentation is a single one, but
other alternative paths exist which can become significantly populated when
conditions change, etc.

Jackie Brown says,

>Here's my problem.  At both transfer and bottling time I noticed a
>pronounced odor and flavor of phenol in the mead.  When I

I haven't sniffed phenol since the sixties, but I'm wondering if the 
aromatics of the honey could be mistaken for phenol, if they were in
combination with other by-products of fermentation?

Ken Weiss remarks,

>yeasts were available at R&R last Saturday) Also, I'm trying a ginger flavored
>ale, sort of modeled on the Vagabond Ginger Ale in Papazian's book, except I'm
>aiming for a drier, more pale ale quality. Any recipe suggestions? My plan is
>6 lb. of light extract, 1 lb. of crystal malt, 3 oz. of grated ginger root,

For a drier product, you could try 20 L crystal, if you can find it.  The
EDME should work well.  

John Polstra sneaks this one in:

>So, to do this right I need a scale with a precision of around a tenth
>of a gram.  (Well, OK, I could make do with precision of one gram.)
>
>I have been told that inexpensive triple-beam balance scales are sold
>for the purpose of measuring small amounts of other, er, chemicals.
>The local source for such scales was described to me as "Big Nicky,"

In as much as Big Nicky went straight and opened up a vegetarian taco shop,
I think you'll need a second source.  May I suggest "Big Eddy's"?

Edmund Scientific
101 E. Gloucester Pike
Barrington, NJ  08007-1380
1-609-573-6250

I got my catalog right here and there are a couple listed.#B36,028 has
a 1/20 gram sensitivity and calibrated to 0.025 grams and sells for $xx.xx
where xx.xx is about 25. #B36,029 has 1/10 gram sensitivity and larger
capacity (a double beamer).  It sells for about twice as much.

Florian
[Who is in no way connected with Edmund Scientific and who writes this
gibberish after hours at my workplace.]


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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 90 16:19:58 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Brewing your first batch (LONG MESSAGE).

A few days (?) ago, someone asked for basic homebrewing instructions.
I realize that this may bore intermediates and advanced brewers, but
you all know that this is where you started, some people who receive
this digest may be afraid to ask basic questions, and finally, the
more people that we can get involved in homebrewing, the better for
all of us (better prices, more homebrew stores, better quality overall).
Here's my attempt at the basics:

Most important things to keep in mind:
	1. Sanitation - you *must* clean everything thoroughly with bleach
	   solution (two tablespoons of unscented household bleach in one
	   gallon of hot water).
	2. Don't worry.  If you keep everything clean, you can't make
	   undrinkable beer. It may not be Pilsner Urquell, but it will
	   probably be better than OLD BUDMILOORS.

Ingredients:
	1. a 4 to 5 lb. can of pre-hopped malt extract [I started with
	   Munton & Fison's OLD ALE kit]
	2. 6 gallons of good-tasting water
	3. a package of ale yeast (usually comes with the extract)

Equipment:
	1. a 3 to 5 gallon enamel or stainless pot (some say aluminium is
	   good also, I avoid it) ($10-50)
	2. a 5-7 gal food grade plastic bucket or glass carboy (from bottled
	   water - you can usually get one just for the deposit ~$7)
	3. 48 - 12oz. longneck bottles (ask a bartender - you can usually get
	   them for the deposit plus the promise of one of your homebrews)
	4. bottle cleaner (brush ($1) or jet ($5)) [the Jet is great]
	5. a few tablespoons of bleach
	6. long spoon [don't use wood on cooled wort - wood harbors bacteria]
	7. airlock and stopper to fit your carboy or the hole in the 
	   bucket lid you have made [make sure your supplier explains its
	   use]($2)
	8. syphon hose, racking tube, bottle filler ($5)
	9. large funnel ($3)
	10. capper [this is where clubs come in real handy - most clubs
	    have a good capper or at least a club member can lend you
	    theirs] ($5-20)
	11. 50 new crown caps ($.50)

Where to get this stuff:
	1. Try the supermarket and hardware store for most of it.
	2. Go to a local homebrew shop - they can help you too.
	3. Mailorder [one place that I know of that is good and
	   the owner (Greg Lawrence) is knowledgable is Lil' Olde
	   Winemaking Shoppe in Sugar Grove, IL - (708)557-2523
	   - they used to charge a flat $3 shipping charge no matter
	   how much you ordered].

Proceedure:
	1. throw out the instructions that came with the malt [they always
	   suggest you add sugar]
	2. boil 4 gallons of good-tasting water
	3. pour into clean plastic milk containers
	4. chill overnight in the fridge [you will use this to cool the hot
	   wort (unfermented beer)]
	5. bring 1 gallon of good-tasting water to a boil in the pot
	6. take the pot off the heat and mix in 3 to 4 pounds of
	   pre-hopped malt syrup [this will minimize scortching]
	7. bring to a boil again (watching out for boil-over)
	8. while the wort is boiling, sanitize carboy [see "Most important"]
	9. after 30 minute boil, take the pot off the heat
	10. move the carboy to its final resting place, preferably a cool
	    (65-70F) dark, non-dusty place (remember, the carboy may
	    overflow and make a big mess, so choose the location
	    with this in mind
	11. pour 1 gallon on COLD pre-boiled water into the carboy [so it
	    doesn't crack from the hot wort]
	12. pour the wort [pronounced "wert"] into the carboy
	13. add enough COLD pre-boiled water to bring the level of the
	    liquid to approx. 8" from the top of the carboy or bucket
	14. sprinkle the ale yeast into the carboy
	15. attach the sanitized airlock
	16. cover the carboy with an opaque plastic sheet [minimize oxidation]
	17. wait two weeks (there should be no visible fermentation and
	    the beer should have almost cleared: should not look like
	    chocolate milk - if it does, keep waiting)
	18. boil 3/4 cup corn sugar in 2 cups water (priming sugar)
	19. pour the priming sugar into a second, sanitized, 5 gallon
	    food-grade container
	20. syphon the beer off the trub [gunk at the bottom, pronounced
	    "troob"] in the fermenter into the priming container (be careful
	    to not splash or otherwise aerate the beer)
	21. gently mix with a sanitized (non-wooden) spoon
	22. syphon the beer into clean, sanitized bottles and cap with
	    clean sanitized caps
	23. store at about 55 to 70 F for 10 days
	24. relax, don't worry, have a homebrew!

Don'ts:
	1. Don't overdo it. "If one can is good, two will be even better!"
	   Two cans of extract will cause more krauesen and could make
	   a BIG mess in your brewing room.
	2. Don't start the syphon with your mouth [it's full of bacteria]
	   - use a sanitized turkey baster, or at least sanitize your mouth
	   with whiskey.
	3. Don't forget to sanitize your hands (often) or use sanitized
	   rubber gloves.
	4. Don't leave your beer uncovered - cover the pot after you are
	   done with the boil, put the airlock in the carboy as soon as
	   you're done filling it, etc.

Later:
	1. Try using unhopped extract and hop pellets or leaves.
	2. Try different styles of beer. By the way, the above recipe
	   is for a simple ale.
	3. Try adding specialty grains along with your malt extract.
	4. Try mashing you own - starting from grains instead of extract.

For more information:
	1. Buy a book. I bought Charlie Papazian's "The Complete Joy of
	Homebrewing" and it served me well plus it includes over a hundred
	recipes.
	2. Post questions in the digest.
	3. Join a club.
	4. Subscribe to Zymurgy (an AHA publication - (303)447-8016 )

Happy brewing!
Al.


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Date: 06 Jun 90 18:19:47 EDT
From: JH the flamed <75140.350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Flames, Cider, MEad, Kegs


I have received 3 direct mailings abusing me for flaming on Mr. Melby's
postings, and ini the digest itself there were one or two people 
expressing a similar opinion. To set the record straight and end the
discussion
I am not suggesting censorship of the forum. I am suggesting there
are other forums and reminding people as Rob G used to that it is
polite to keep ones postings brief and to the point. My objection
with Mr. Melby's postings was that there were several of them all
very, very lengthy. A summary could have been posted and full 
versions sent as follow ups. OK??

On the question of my cider technique yes I do leave it in the
fridge after taking it off the yeast I like it chilled. I was
interested to hear that teh California Champagne Yeast (a new
product I assume??) has different and apparently better properties
when fermented out. I would be interested in hearing other results
on this.

To the poor person w/ phenol in his mead. I have never experienced
this. Perhaps a bacteria got into the ferment before the yeast took
hold. What type of yeast was used?? I have found that since I brew 
fruit meads the acidity is higher. I assume this helps discourage
bacteria until the yeast takes over. Was yours a plain mead??

To those who talked about the FOXX bottle filler. My question is
if you have a cornelius keg why fill bottles?? Friends of mine have
a brew supply shop in Cambridge MASS called Modern Brewer that now sells
3gal cornelius kegs. I don't know the price. I believe they still have
an 800 number, 1-800-SEND-ALE. Call for info, if you desire these kegs.

I myself am considering the switch to cornelius kegs. What type of
price ranges have people paid for keg, regulator and CO2 tank. Ihave
heard everything from ~$140 to $225+ so I'm trying to get a feel for 
what I really should expect to pay. Thanks.

            - Jay H   
               


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Date:     Wed, 6 Jun 90 21:24 PST
From: <CONDOF%CLARGRAD.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  Sanitizing fermenter lids; "burnt steak" ale

I use a large (7 gallon) plastic fermenter, which I sanitize by filling it with
dilute bleach as recommended in "Brewing Quality Beers" by Byron Burch. To
sanitize the lid, I have been jamming the lid in sideways, so it is about half
covered in the sanitizing solution; this temporarily distorts the fermenter a
bit. While my wort is boiling, I rotate the lid at intervals, so the whole lid
gets sanitized.

Well, I just noticed that this is not such a good idea, because the lid's lip
is stiff and sharp enough to have thoroughly scored the interior of my
fermenter, leaving scratches where bacteria could hide. So far, I have not had
any problems with infections, but, to keep from further damaging my fermenter,
I will be using sterilant-soaked towels to sanitize my lid.

Speaking of Byron Burch, his book has been a generally excellent guide for me,
but there is one thing that is terribly wrong with it. It says that any black
grain used as a color adjunct can be added directly to your boil about halfway
through. I did this and ended up with a brown ale that, at bottling time,
tasted like burnt steak (I kid you not). I bottled it anyway to see if the
taste will disappear with time. My local homebrew store proprietor, Don
Siechert, however, advises making an infusion of the black grains by straining
them through a coffee filter. I haven't tried this yet, but it sounds like a
good idea.
============
Fred Condo. System Administrator, Pro-Humanist (818/339-4704).
INET: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com     BitNet: condof at clargrad
matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722

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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 90 01:38:28 EDT
From: hisata!doug at gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Colorado Brewpubs

Richard Stern sez:

[stuff deleted]

> As for Major Kelly brewing at the Antlers in Colo Spgs:  I wouldn't hold 
> my breath expecting good beer.   He's just a homebrewer, and I wasn't very
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> impressed with his homebrew last time I tasted it.

Surely you didn't mean that the way it sounds!  JUST a homebrewer?! :-)
  

Doug
gatech!hisata!doug


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #434, 06/07/90
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